Archer or Wizard?

13

Comments

  • TigerLily - Lost City
    TigerLily - Lost City Posts: 1,209 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    The problem for archers is the lack of skills that does any dmg + the fact that the class comes with no natural defense what so ever.
    Even with lvl 11 skills you dont get any decent dmg adds. I kinda think archers where created under the mis-consumption that evasion was useful and that arcane users wouldn't have 14k phy def

    All we really have is our base phy attack - meaning you need at least +10+12 weapon to do any dmg at all against well geared arcane users 99+.

    At least demon get get a decent crit boost from passives and stun/ST and 30% attack speed from quick shoot. But thats not always enough when arcane users starts getting 10-14k phy def, i even seen fully buffed 99+ wizards out heal quick shoot with morning dew.

    I think archer is the only class that actually requires rank8 to be somewhat equal to other classes endgame. But even with rank8 you really dont hit that hard since no archer skills hits hard. Than you do somewhat above average phy dmg.

    And ive seen archers with +8+10 refines getting 1 shoot by wizards with terrible gear so many times. I guess when you have a skill that gives 500% of weapon damage and like 14k extra water dmg you kinda auto win the game.
  • XMidKnight - Lost City
    XMidKnight - Lost City Posts: 97 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »
    And ive seen archers with +8+10 refines getting 1 shoot by wizards with terrible gear so many times. I guess when you have a skill that gives 500% of weapon damage and like 14k extra water dmg you kinda auto win the game.


    Dont forget the 50% chance to increase magic critical hit rate by 30% that the majority of 99 sage mages have..

    Also i LOL @ all the archers claiming they pwn while grinding on mobs or TW.

    PK and TW are very different things imo.
  • Kristoph - Lost City
    Kristoph - Lost City Posts: 2,016 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »
    And ive seen archers with +8+10 refines getting 1 shoot by wizards with terrible gear so many times. I guess when you have a skill that gives 500% of weapon damage and like 14k extra water dmg you kinda auto win the game.
    Only if the archer is being ganked or just horrible... wizards don't have any way to effectively stop you from running, so why would you stay and take a full damage dragon? You can count sleep, but... you do have absolute domain. Our sleep has a 2 minute cooldown, if you take that into account and make sure you don't get slept during that minute you should never take a hit like that. Learn how to kite, use holy path, don't be afraid to drop when needed, etc. You have the advantage in the air because of a few things, they're not hard to figure out. Oh, and stay the hell out of water.
    Wondering how much longer these **** packs are going to be around.
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »
    Oh, and stay the hell out of water.
    O.o' stay out of teh water?
    b:shocked
    (>.<)'
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  • Tap - Lost City
    Tap - Lost City Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Make a wizard. :)
  • Mizuoni - Dreamweaver
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,533 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Whiner - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Wizards
    + Hits harder then the Archer (so good in TW)
    - Squishy.
    - Uses MP charm.
    - Impossible to get in a 2-3.

    Archers
    + Hits hard.
    + Can fly from the beginning, so faster getting started.
    x Medium defence.
    - Uses arrows.


    I would go for the archer :p

    Im not squishy
    I dont use MP charm
    I farmed my full tt90 in three days with squads

    say wut?
    Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
    Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
    ...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
    Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
    So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze
  • _makina_ - Sanctuary
    _makina_ - Sanctuary Posts: 747 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    This thread started in November of last year, i think the person has already made their choice.
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Archers are fine in TW because all you really need is a good weapon, and their temporary defensive abilities give them enough time so that their opponent just forget about them such that they can resume firing on targets.

    6:55-7:20
    also a wizard keeled Transcend at teh end lols.
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
    Hawk:Do this. closing thread
    frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
    Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
    Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
    LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
    Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
    Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
    58% chance to get tokens
    41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
    1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
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  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    why that was quite a barrage

    http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j139/Vargamora/120px-Awesome_hurr_hurr.png
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • KedgeSniper - Lost City
    KedgeSniper - Lost City Posts: 733 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    None if ya not planin in using $ real

    Now if ya plan to use $

    If ya have lots.. get a wiz if not get an archer.

    Wiz requires more refines that archer if yar pure magic n will 1 shot more people.

    Archer is gimp.. no mater ya cash shop alot, you will always get 1 shot. Ya will do okay damage, but mages damage in player vs player is way higher.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Face the fear. Face a war. Face the world.
    Leeching CQ salary since 09'
    Many names, Common Faces.
  • Ehee - Lost City
    Ehee - Lost City Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    i vote archer , so i can kill youb:pleased
    me gush you.
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Ehee - Lost City wrote: »
    i vote archer , so i can kill youb:pleased

    b:shocked
    oh noes~
    DX
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
    Hawk:Do this. closing thread
    frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
    Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
    Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
    LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
    Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
    Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
    58% chance to get tokens
    41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
    1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • KedgeSniper - Lost City
    KedgeSniper - Lost City Posts: 733 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Ehee - Lost City wrote: »
    i vote archer , so i can kill youb:pleased

    ^ money can buy it all b:bye
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Face the fear. Face a war. Face the world.
    Leeching CQ salary since 09'
    Many names, Common Faces.
  • Aquagirl - Raging Tide
    Aquagirl - Raging Tide Posts: 103 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    +12 refine>>skill.
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Aquagirl - Raging Tide wrote: »
    +12 refine>>skill.

    sadly true.
    b:surrender
    <---managed to keep a barb away for a full 2 minutes and didn't even get hit (me didn't die either..went to safe since me control skills be on cooldown...)
    even though he had a cash shop aero and TE on his genie....while me had the basic aero.
    me ticked his charm a bit though.
    b:chuckle
    (the barb was playing like a noob BM loools~ mindlessly fly towards target and try to TE only)
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
    Hawk:Do this. closing thread
    frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
    Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
    Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
    LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
    Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
    Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
    58% chance to get tokens
    41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
    1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Haven_fear - Heavens Tear
    Haven_fear - Heavens Tear Posts: 61 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    gotta say i love these archers suck end game threads because i have seen mages lose to archers and archers lose to mages. any class can beat any other class its the way it is. sure there are advantages to everything and disadvantages
  • Magikrap - Lost City
    Magikrap - Lost City Posts: 289 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Haven_fear - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    gotta say i love these archers suck end game threads because i have seen mages lose to archers and archers lose to mages. any class can beat any other class its the way it is. sure there are advantages to everything and disadvantages

    lol naive people

    that beleive that classes in a game are always perfetctly balanced

    in most game u will find imbalance between classes

    and then you will find some noobs who do no realise this fact

    mages has more advantages than disadvantages then archer at 90+
  • Haven_fear - Heavens Tear
    Haven_fear - Heavens Tear Posts: 61 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Magikrap - Lost City wrote: »
    lol naive people

    that beleive that classes in a game are always perfetctly balanced

    in most game u will find imbalance between classes

    and then you will find some noobs who do no realise this fact

    mages has more advantages than disadvantages then archer at 90+



    smarts come into play too. i dont believe that all the classes are perfectly balanced. look at a nix and veno but that is not what this is about. archers can have an almost constant barrage of metal and phys attacks. a wiz can not. archer bow can purge in the HS and TT 99 crossbow a wiz can not purge. ranged continuous aoe.

    wiz has omgwtf nukes especially at demon/sage however these take 4 seconds to channel unless sutra'd. much harder to get off. gush takes 2 seconds to completely cast which is roughly 2 archer shots with one most likely a crit.

    all i am saying is i am tired of everyone thinking archer is the worst class to play endgame. Transcend is a great example of how they arent. if archers were so gimped endgame we'd have no endgame archers and we'd have only mages
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    where do you get 2 shots with a ranged weapon during gush? last time i checked, your bow attacks take more than a second per attack. even with a lot of -interval gear, getting it to 0.91 attack/second is already pretty ****ing good.

    the only way it goes over a second is demon spark, quickshot's quicken, or fork it out for bloody 8jun. but guess what? wizards can get -channel and demon spark too.
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    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • Haven_fear - Heavens Tear
    Haven_fear - Heavens Tear Posts: 61 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »
    where do you get 2 shots with a ranged weapon during gush? last time i checked, your bow attacks take more than a second per attack. even with a lot of -interval gear, getting it to 0.9 attack/second is already pretty ****ing good.

    the only way it goes over a second is demon spark or quickshot's quicken, but guess what? wizards can get -channel and demon spark too.



    i said a key word roughly. and if you really wanna get down to cash shopping with rank 8 plate or nirvana gear you can get 1 att per second with a bow regular.

    HS is .71
    bracers is -.1
    2 piece of TT 99 la -.05
    2 piece of TT 99 Ha -.05
    rank 8 top -.1
    lunar glade cape -.05
    love up and down -.05

    equates to 1 att per second. gush is a 1 second channel 1 second cast. that'd be 2 shots.

    yep but if an archer demon sparks you're going to stun of go away. same with a wiz unless you're really dumb and just sit there taking a demon sparked wiz attacks
  • TigerLily - Lost City
    TigerLily - Lost City Posts: 1,209 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I think there is a reason why about 50% of higher lvl archers feels slightly gimped and frustrated. Look at the barb forum, how many "barb suck endgame" treads are they...0. Or how many venos do you know that complains about feeling inadequate 99+?

    Also dont know many 99+ wiz that feels gimped endgame, regrets their choice of making a wiz and has the needs to discuss how gimp they feel with other wizards. Its just a huge orgy of SS with 20-30k ice dragon crits.

    Either the archer class has very big group of terrible and born miserable whiners among them or we got a bit screwed up by Beijing Perfect World Developers.
  • Haven_fear - Heavens Tear
    Haven_fear - Heavens Tear Posts: 61 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    with lunar gear and anni packs barb hp doesnt seem so hax anymore considering there are clerics with 10k hp unbuffed. if you really thought archer was that gimped you would have rerolled before 101. its a long way from 90 which used to be considered endgame to 101 but obviously you didnt.
  • Mizuoni - Dreamweaver
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,533 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    b:chucklenotice how in haven's sig he has a 7x wizard.
    Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
    Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
    ...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
    Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
    So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze
  • Haven_fear - Heavens Tear
    Haven_fear - Heavens Tear Posts: 61 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    just because i dont have a end game wiz doesnt mean i havent talked to them
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    and what have they said? that they don't, in fact, 1 shot endgame archers?

    when wizards have -channel gear available to them it's kind of bull**** still comparing gush's base speed to an archer's attack speed after being fully geared in -interval don't you think? don't copypasta a list of -interval gear, you think i've never seen them before? i'm fully aware how much -interval you are capable of pre-Nirvana gear where do you think the "0.9 attack/s" came from? 0.91 is pretty much the max you can get without 8jun and with no temporary attack speed buffs

    and last time i checked, a wizard's power didn't lie in gush but in its spark skills lol...i don't know where you were going with that gush argument.

    1v1 a wizard will have very good chances against an archer with equal gear. they have more control skills, more mobility in the air, and better defenses prove me wrong. all you have to bring to the table is how slow gush casts to prove that wizards = archers in endgame PvP?
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • Haven_fear - Heavens Tear
    Haven_fear - Heavens Tear Posts: 61 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    i have never said that wiz have worse defense because with stone barrier they have better. i agree with that. gush is the fastest casting spell other than undine and sophoric which is why i compared that. yep they hit hard as hell with their spark skills but those also take a long time to cast without sutra. even with a ton of negative channel its plenty of time to move or pop and apoth. as you said a wizard has a good chance against a archer with endgame gear but everyone from this thread appears to be saying archers are hopeless endgame when they arent. if they truly are then why do people continue to play them
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Haven_fear - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    if they truly are then why do people continue to play them

    why people play archers?
    dekciw wrote: »
    Someone knows very little about the purpose of Devil.
    Devil - Lost City wrote: »
    To PvE like a mad man imo.
    RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »
    QFT!!!

    Devil LIVES in PvE...ffs b:sweat

    b:chuckle
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
    Hawk:Do this. closing thread
    frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
    Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
    Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
    LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
    Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
    Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
    58% chance to get tokens
    41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
    1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Mizuoni - Dreamweaver
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,533 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Haven_fear - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    i have never said that wiz have worse defense because with stone barrier they have better. i agree with that. gush is the fastest casting spell other than undine and sophoric which is why i compared that. yep they hit hard as hell with their spark skills but those also take a long time to cast without sutra. even with a ton of negative channel its plenty of time to move or pop and apoth. as you said a wizard has a good chance against a archer with endgame gear but everyone from this thread appears to be saying archers are hopeless endgame when they arent. if they truly are then why do people continue to play them

    i know wizards who channel mountain seize in 3.5 seconds
    Blade tempest and BIDS in 2.8 seconds


    and they arent even demon...
    Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
    Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
    ...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
    Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
    So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze
  • Legerity - Sanctuary
    Legerity - Sanctuary Posts: 1,072 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I think what some people seem to miss out on is the fact that the Wizards can get incredible crit % at end game, which most certainly means we'll die to gush pyro crit... It doesn't even need to be an ultimate.

    This is of course, on top of their already high resistance and pdef and the ability to get lots of -chan. There's just nothing in it for Archers. Hopeless - yes, unless you get pings of <50ms and have a lot of PvP experience. Does it mean you have to stop trying? No.
  • Fleuri - Sanctuary
    Fleuri - Sanctuary Posts: 1,763 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Legerity - Sanctuary wrote: »
    This is of course, on top of their already high resistance and pdef and the ability to get lots of -chan. There's just nothing in it for Archers. Hopeless - yes, unless you get pings of <50ms and have a lot of PvP experience. Does it mean you have to stop trying? No.

    I feel that sage archers have a few things they can do (though I am still building up to that point, and am somewhat hampered by some changes to other parts of the game which wind up restricting how sage archers get access to resources they need).

    Demons, though... I feel demons need a reforged nirvana slingshot with -0.2 interval on the slingshot itself.

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