PWI Preventing Botting Discussion.

Blancheneige - Heavens Tear · January 2010

You know.. the main problem is that PWI don,t permanently ban players who are botting.

I reported the same player botting 2 times. It wa evident it was a bot. I guess he was banned the 2 times, since he disappeared for a few days from the area both time.

But when I saw him appear back a again a 3rd time... I did not bothered to report him. What's the point? He would be banned a few days and come back again again.....

Iseria - Harshlands · January 2010

Blancheneige - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You know.. the main problem is that PWI don,t permanently ban players who are botting.

I reported the same player botting 2 times. It wa evident it was a bot. I guess he was banned the 2 times, since he disappeared for a few days from the area both time.

But when I saw him appear back a again a 3rd time... I did not bothered to report him. What's the point? He would be banned a few days and come back again again.....

^confirm this, people I know told me they have reported people from certain faction in Harshlands for botting mats near Tusk Town and yet they always return cause they have something "special" most other users dont.

eatwithspoons · January 2010

Don't sell us short just because you don't see an instaban, we try to give players a chance to improve, and only when someone submits another report will we know that further action must be taken.

The fact that we give warnings should not discourage anyone from sending reports on people who are breaking the rules. The more evidence we have, the better.

MagicHamsta - Lost City · January 2010

Blancheneige - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You know.. the main problem is that PWI don,t permanently ban players who are botting.

I reported the same player botting 2 times. It wa evident it was a bot. I guess he was banned the 2 times, since he disappeared for a few days from the area both time.

But when I saw him appear back a again a 3rd time... I did not bothered to report him. What's the point? He would be banned a few days and come back again again.....

report again.
b:chuckle
http://support.perfectworld.com/violation
me pretty sure botting = cheating = major infraction.
b:chuckle
There be only so many times that GMs can catch you till one gets perma banned.
me will try asking for specifics and such.

Archaine - Heavens Tear · January 2010

I am surprised that anyone would bother to bot. Ive played PtP games where botters were on to earn and sell coin to sell illegally to players,but that is not really an option here since paying outright to lvl or buy items is completely acceptable and promoted. Botters here do it just to lvl a toon?! Gah what a complete waste of time,cheating for the sake of cheating.
I have never spent 1 minute of time paying any attn to someone grinding,whether they are there or not. If a "botter" were camping a boss or taking nodes,now that would bother me,but I have not run across that myself yet.
I do support ppl reporting cheating of any kind,but I'm afraid I just dont pay enough attn to other players most of the time to figure out if they are a bott or not. I am left wondering why anyone plays that way,as the point is lost on me .
you do a great job PW ,thx for the fun so far.

MagicHamsta - Lost City · January 2010

just thought me would post a conversation with one of the botters me has found.....who admitted to botting.
xD

(>.<)' *Name has been protected to protect the individual's identity*

Enix - Dreamweaver · January 2010

I have been reading this topic now from page one up till what I am posting on currently. All I can say is it's good that you are doing this since no one wants a game full of botters. Though me myself have not actually seen anyone acting in such a way that I think they could be botters. But like some have said, I myself do not usually answer PM's or anything else. Heck at level 70 I was grinding on foxwings for hours because they had a really good DQ drop rate. I didn't level off them and what ever exp I made I fed to my genie. But anyways if you PM a person to see if they are botting then ok, but if they answer and you sit there and basically say they are cheating to there face and grinding into them that's a bit much.

I can see helping out by reporting these people, but if they happen to be there and you are grinding into them to see if they are botting that's a bit much. So to those who check to see if people are botting I would suggest not pushing it with some since, wouldn't that be considered harrassment after a while if you keep bothering a player over and over again just to check up on them?

Anyways keep up the good work and keep it bot free guys.

svedese · January 2010

MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »

Me are objective hamster. b:surrender
Me find your reasoning strange....
Please state where me wandering in search of bots (even if this be me one and only goal) around be against the ToS in anyway shape or form.

That I will do. But I will not make this a personal discussion between you and me. This goes for all players of PWI. From all the MMO's i have played, this have never been an issue. People usually know how to deal with these sutuations, and botters do disappear from PWI also, meaning the ticket system works. Therefor i will specificly tell you what TOS rules everyone will be violating and why ppl should report you in same way botters are reported. I have been exploring this game myself and its easy to see and know the difference by experience.

Here follows the 3 rules you be breaking and why anyone will get reported for this activity:

#11
(f) "Stalk," threaten or otherwise harass or cause discomfort to another;
(i) Engage in, encourage, or promote any illegal activity, or any activity that violates these Terms or the Rules of Conduct;
(n) Take any action that disrupts the Service or that negatively affects or may prohibit other users from enjoying the Website, the Games or any other aspect of the Service.

I don't care for the botters feelings, they have it coming for doing what they do. For same reason I don't care if some get annoyed when they here get reported for clearly violating the TOS.

Ty eatwithspoon for stating how this should be done, in a way that don't violate the TOS. b:thanks

eatwithspoons wrote: »

Don't sell us short just because you don't see an instaban, we try to give players a chance to improve, and only when someone submits another report will we know that further action must be taken.

The fact that we give warnings should not discourage anyone from sending reports on people who are breaking the rules. The more evidence we have, the better.

Born_Again_ - Sanctuary · January 2010

svedese wrote: »

That I will do. But I have been exploring this game myself and its easy to see and know the difference by experience.

Here follows the 3 rules you be breaking and why anyone will get reported for this activity:

I agree with svedese and eatwithspoons, we must fight unwanted behaviour ingame. This thread should never have been made and has been reported for encourage to illegal behaviour.

I will add a forth way TOS has been violated:

#11
(f) "Stalk," threaten or otherwise harass or cause discomfort to another;

Yes this is not stalking botters mainly, but players playing fair and by the rules. I will also ask my fellow faction members/friends ingame to report this behaviour as well as botting they might bump into.

MagicHamsta - Lost City · January 2010

Enix - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I have been reading this topic now from page one up till what I am posting on currently. All I can say is it's good that you are doing this since no one wants a game full of botters. Though me myself have not actually seen anyone acting in such a way that I think they could be botters. But like some have said, I myself do not usually answer PM's or anything else. Heck at level 70 I was grinding on foxwings for hours because they had a really good DQ drop rate. I didn't level off them and what ever exp I made I fed to my genie. But anyways if you PM a person to see if they are botting then ok, but if they answer and you sit there and basically say they are cheating to there face and grinding into them that's a bit much.

I can see helping out by reporting these people, but if they happen to be there and you are grinding into them to see if they are botting that's a bit much. So to those who check to see if people are botting I would suggest not pushing it with some since, wouldn't that be considered harrassment after a while if you keep bothering a player over and over again just to check up on them?

Anyways keep up the good work and keep it bot free guys.

b:chuckle
me don't check on on players over and over again. me happen to check out known areas where players happen to bot. (and yes....me has a reason for being there.....WQ happens to cover most of the routine places me check, the others such as NS is where me have me BH79...) which coincidentally, happen to have the same people over and over again.....most of who happen to bot. (also accused the person in the previous conversation that she was cheating since.....it was obvious it was a bot....at first me entertained the idea it could be a tab, micro however she had the classic signs of being a bot. and yes me actually sat there asked if she was there for about 5 minutes and even proceeded to attack in order to confirm some other program was at work. shortly after she came back which...by then me already had the evidence needed....and then she happened to admit to using a 3rd party software to play the game for her.)

svedese wrote: »

That I will do. But I will not make this a personal discussion between you and me. This goes for all players of PWI. From all the MMO's i have played, this have never been an issue. People usually know how to deal with these sutuations, and botters do disappear from PWI also, meaning the ticket system works. Therefor i will specificly tell you what TOS rules everyone will be violating and why ppl should report you in same way botters are reported. I have been exploring this game myself and its easy to see and know the difference by experience.

Here follows the 3 rules you be breaking and why anyone will get reported for this activity:

I don't care for the botters feelings, they have it coming for doing what they do. For same reason I don't care if some get annoyed when they here get reported for clearly violating the TOS.

Ty eatwithspoon for stating how this should be done, in a way that don't violate the TOS. b:thanks

(f) "Stalk," threaten or otherwise harass or cause discomfort to another;

me don't stalk anyone, threaten anyone. or harass anyone. (if they really don't answer me and me happen to have attacked them, then answer back, me heal them, usually apologize, and go on with me other stuff.
now then, this rule could work the other way around, they cause discomfort to me (and others who truly be grinding on the mobs since bot programs do ks mobs alot.) with their presence alone which happen to **** with the game in many ways....such as gold prices, equipment, etc.

the other two parts.....

(i) Engage in, encourage, or promote any illegal activity, or any activity that violates these Terms or the Rules of Conduct;
(n) Take any action that disrupts the Service or that negatively affects or may prohibit other users from enjoying the Website, the Games or any other aspect of the Service.

botting be a way that engages in illegal activity and disrupts the service (as they happen to even ks other people mobs.) and negatively affects the game by putting in an inflow of in game money that shouldn't be there in the first place.

Morraina - Sanctuary · January 2010

MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »

so....
their movements still be less fluid and slower then regular people.

This is true - their movement won't be smooth. But neither is mindless TAB - Attack either. The TAB auto target does NOT always select the closest mob to you, nor does it select a mob in the direction in which you are looking. So movements can be very erratic

IMHO, it's gonna be harder (on a pvp server anyway) to distinguish the botter from the mindless grinder.

Frankly, I'm not gonna waste my time looking for them. I have too many bounty/treasure/bounty hunts to do now. b:laugh

eatwithspoons · January 2010

This thread is getting reopened.

I understand that there may be concerns about harassment, however what the OP and the majority of posters here describe is not a violation of the ToS. It is not against the rules to ask someone if they are around, and unless you are stalking or harassing someone a whisper of this nature is not inappropriate.

I want to encourage the people who report botters to be courteous at all times when you think you have found someone. The GMs will make a final decision on all incidents reported to us, so please do not be mean to the people who your report as it will not help the situation.

For further information about how you should be approaching this issue, please see my previous posts in this threadb:victory

Pressa - Heavens Tear · January 2010

Hmm alright fair enough but how about this does this count as bottin or am just thinkin much ado over nothing. I know in a previous statement that yah said so long as the pet can get hit by the mobs its okay. (referring to things like land mobs that don't aggro onto a flying pet) Now like puttin your pet on defend and havin it run around from the air chasing after little mobs while you sit pretty up in the air with the key jammed down to spam heal on it as it does the work.

Is that a fair way of thinking or should that kinda thing not happen I know it ain't technically a whole third party system but it would definitely look that way to a random passerby. And I mean the whole whisper thing wouldn't work cause if your doin that you ain't sittin there.

Tatuaje - Lost City · January 2010

Thats a tricky one but I am betting its against TOS in some way. Your Third-party is whatever hardware mashing down on the keyboard. b:chuckle

And I thought there was something about stepping away from your PC for a longated time while your character is on auto-pilot getting you exp and the such.

I believe you can setup your pet to defend which I guess attacks stuff and you can auto-spam somehow aslong as you are at your PC and a GM can get a response from yuo if required.

DISCLAIMER: All the above is based soley on my opinion and should not be taken as fact since I am currently find it hard to understand the TOS completely.

Sorry bout that Eats, will try to keep on topic.

eatwithspoons · January 2010

This shouldn't be a thread for users to discuss their interpretation of rules, this is a thread for tips on how to report botting. If you need clarification on the game rules, please PM me or send in a ticket. The problem with interpreting rules is that other users may be misled into believing an opinion is fact, even in the absence of an official confirmation b:victory

Unknown · January 2010

This content has been removed.

MzTeacake - Raging Tide · January 2010

._. Personally I don't care much for botters and I'm not gonna waste my time reporting them either. I've sent reports about being harassed before and nothing has been done about it, the most that probably was done was an email to the persons who were in the act of it to stop bothering me which didn't work at all.

I've seen a botter in this server already as well. I was bored and just got done doing the lvl51 TB quest and there's a village near Dizzy and it has the Vipons and Foxwing so I went and started grinding on the Foxwing. Not to soon after getting their I noticed someone and they were grinding as well, I didn't really care for them being there until they started attacking mobs I've already began attacking and stealing my drops/kills. I've pm'd the person a few times thinking they just blacklisted me for complaining to them. But I guess the Foxwing stunned him and messed up his macro he had for the bot and stopped attacking and was killed eventually by the Foxwing. I laughed and pm'd his guildies to come pick up their fail botter because he died. Never saw him again, but I guess it's because I don't quest or grind unless I'm bored :S

Also, I don't see why PWE promotes botting in Jade Dynasty [might have this edited out, dunno] (from what I've heard from people who actually play it) but not on PWI itself. Why allow it on one game and then tell players they can't on another. Personally it makes no since, don't put a rule in one TOS and then remove it or ban it in another.

And I don't like answering most pms or they get flooded out by guild chat while I'm grinding. I type pretty fast and I know the keyboard shortcuts to switch the shortcut bar around so that I can just press a button while attacking and there's always macros so if they do the same attacks over and over doesn't mean they are botting. I use the tab key, I wait awhile before I attack another mob (cool downs, pot regens, etc). Anyways, this thread was kinda pointless, if people read the TOS or have played video games before they'd know about botting and how it works. Your just promoting people to be more aware of people like you looking for them.

Also, I use to grind/farm for hours up by 1k streams. I'd kill the ninetails with my cub or the wild nix's. Then I'd go to the Avalanches and farm fb69 wine mats and the herbs that pop up there. I'd also fight the mobs there and go in one big circle repeatedly until my inven was full or I felt like doing something else. Maybe you should stop looking for botters and just enjoy the game and let the GMs do their jobs, sending a ticket does help but doing a GMs job for them doesn't really give you anything to be proud of besides being a snitch and worrying about other peoples game play. But that's just my opinion.

eatwithspoons · January 2010

I feel like "snitching" is thrown around too liberally these days.

This is how snitching was described to me: If someone is doing something illegal that does not harm anyone and they do it out of desperation, to report them would be snitching.

For botters, they are harming your economy, your enjoyment of the game, and are doing so only for their own benefit. To report them is not snitching, because this person doesn't care about your well-being and they are doing something unnecessary and selfish.

MzTeacake - Raging Tide · January 2010

eatwithspoons wrote: »

I feel like "snitching" is thrown around too liberally these days.

This is how snitching was described to me: If someone is doing something illegal that does not harm anyone and they do it out of desperation, to report them would be snitching.

For botters, they are harming your economy, your enjoyment of the game, and are doing so only for their own benefit. To report them is not snitching, because this person doesn't care about your well-being and they are doing something unnecessary and selfish.

In a competitive game I'd say that the majority of people only care for themselves, friends, and faction mates. There's no point to look out for others if it doesn't really benifit you if your trying to get ahead yourself. But that could just be me, I'm not a helpful person.

fiznik · January 2010

Just a thought to throw out there: In my experience with staff from other games I have been amazed at the potential ways staff from said games can detect and prove or disprove botting techniques. I have known hackers/botters, and devs/Gm's trying to stop them. I in no way support abusing any game by botting/hacking (defeats the purpose IMO). None the less if you feel you have something to report, rest asurred the PWI staff does have legitamte ways to investigate the matter.

Granted some people ride very close to that line, and push the "grey area" for all it's worth. But I'd be willing to bet no one gets banned without solid proof of unnacceptable practice in these matters.

Sadly all games have hackers/botters, just like all countries have criminals. This will never change. That does not mean we should turn an ignorant eye to what we believe may be unjust = )

Kimbley - Harshlands · January 2010

I don't see how killing botters is any different from killing regular players on a pvp server b:surrender
"Oh look, a possible botter, let me check to make sure he's botting before i kill him!"

"Oh look, a fellow pvper, let me check his gear before i kill him!"

And a bit more on-topic: I agree that usually reporting will suffice for botters and any other hacker, but i also think it's great to actually do something about it if you can, such as Hamsta ^_^
Though, hunting them down specifically could be a bit bad =(
Though, hunting down low-levels specifically could be bad as well...
Or hunting down rednames specifically....
Or any other group of people specifically ^_^

MagicHamsta - Lost City · January 2010

MzTeacake
Me not trying to push people to go out if their way to report suspicious activities.
._.'
Me merely wish for more people to be aware and if they happen to come across a botter to just step up a bit and do something.

now you yourself said that, "In a competitive game I'd say that the majority of people only care for themselves, friends, and faction mates. There's no point to look out for others if it doesn't really benifit you if your trying to get ahead yourself. But that could just be me, I'm not a helpful person."

well...me happen to care alot about meself, friends, and faction mate.
by getting rid of botters me benefit us all and even complete strangers.

me am helping us all by getting rid of people who don't wish to play the game and merely wants to **** the game over.

MzTeacake - Raging Tide · January 2010

MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »

MzTeacake
Me not trying to push people to go out if their way to report suspicious activities.
._.'
Me merely wish for more people to be aware and if they happen to come across a botter to just step up a bit and do something.

now you yourself said that, "In a competitive game I'd say that the majority of people only care for themselves, friends, and faction mates. There's no point to look out for others if it doesn't really benifit you if your trying to get ahead yourself. But that could just be me, I'm not a helpful person."

well...me happen to care alot about meself, friends, and faction mate.
by getting rid of botters me benefit us all and even complete strangers.

me am helping us all by getting rid of people who don't wish to play the game and merely wants to **** the game over.

You never know if someone whose stumbled upon this thread of yours reports someone you know as a botter (if they are or not). Not saying it's your fault they chose to bot, or that whomever reported them is wrong buuuut, someone botting an area your just flying past isn't really harming your play. Nor is someone botting in a remote area with little to no players because of mob lvl or the fact they just don't have the time to travel across the map for that certain group of mobs.

But like I said I'm not that much of a "caring" person, I do help people mostly out of boredom and I enjoy doing certain quests and fbs but other than that I won't help unless they spam it so much that I want them to shut up.

eatwithspoons · January 2010

I have already stated some reasons why they are harming your game experience, and I'm not asking you to agree, but it's starts to sound a bit odd when you appear to defend botters in a thread made to help combat them. IMO both of us are getting kinda off topic.b:surrender

Zoe - Heavens Tear · January 2010

MzTeacake - Raging Tide wrote: »

Also, I don't see why PWE promotes botting in Jade Dynasty [might have this edited out, dunno] (from what I've heard from people who actually play it) but not on PWI itself. Why allow it on one game and then tell players they can't on another. Personally it makes no since, don't put a rule in one TOS and then remove it or ban it in another.

They let you bot in jade dynasty because the bot is built into the game. You are not using 3rd party software to play the game for you, you are simply using a normal game mechanic (that they make a lot of money off of)

Botting is NOT a feature here in PWI. It is not part of the normal game, therefore you can't do it.

I never see any botters myself but I know people who have. They were able to get ahold of a GM that was online at the time who confirmed it was a bot and booted them from the server.b:victory

MzTeacake - Raging Tide · January 2010

eatwithspoons wrote: »

I have already stated some reasons why they are harming your game experience, and I'm not asking you to agree, but it's starts to sound a bit odd when you appear to defend botters in a thread made to help combat them. IMO both of us are getting kinda off topic.b:surrender

Not really supporting them, but my question about people saying that they can bot freely in Jade Dynasty isn't being answered. If you think about it, oracling would be some form of ruining someones game play, or doing the dragon quests (imo) since not everyone has money for gold or a credit card. When a mod finally drops a oracle you see someone whose around 5x camping the oracle sight that might ruin someones game play. Or if a high lvl needs dq's from mobs that you need for a quest on Dawns Cry (they're hard enough to fight without getting the poison stack) that can ruin the game.

What I'm trying to say is different things can ruin a persons game play but there's always some form of something someone either created (3rd party program) or just someone knowing how to play the game that can ruin someones play. I don't bot so I don't support them. Even if I wanted to bot, it'd be pointless, just another way to power lvl which I find to be useless and pointless. So yes they do ruin the game but if they're not bugging you in any way then it shouldn't and if you say they're altering the economy they're just one person out of all the other players who probably don't even bot and still raise prices of things.

But I'll drop the subject doesn't seem like my points getting across and like Spoons said "I sound like I'm supporting them" and I don't feel like being under investigation or anything.

Zoe - Heavens Tear · January 2010

MzTeacake - Raging Tide wrote: »

Not really supporting them, but my question about people saying that they can bot freely in Jade Dynasty isn't being answered.

Read my post above yours.b:thanks

MzTeacake - Raging Tide · January 2010

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Read my post above yours.b:thanks

Yeah you posted before I was done writing, lol. No one really explained to me they just said they allow you to bot, and everyone power lvls to lvl cap. Was just confused on why they'd put such a thing within a game and only do it in one of their games(?)

MagicHamsta - Lost City · January 2010

MzTeacake - Raging Tide wrote: »

You never know if someone whose stumbled upon this thread of yours reports someone you know as a botter (if they are or not). Not saying it's your fault they chose to bot, or that whomever reported them is wrong buuuut, someone botting an area your just flying past isn't really harming your play. Nor is someone botting in a remote area with little to no players because of mob lvl or the fact they just don't have the time to travel across the map for that certain group of mobs.

But like I said I'm not that much of a "caring" person, I do help people mostly out of boredom and I enjoy doing certain quests and fbs but other than that I won't help unless they spam it so much that I want them to shut up.

ah me wouldn't worry about me or any of me friends being reported....since it would be a false report as none of me friends bot. b:chuckle
and yes they be hurting me gameplay by disrupting the in game economy with an influx of coins which shouldn't be there.

MzTeacake - Raging Tide wrote: »

Not really supporting them, but my question about people saying that they can bot freely in Jade Dynasty isn't being answered. If you think about it, oracling would be some form of ruining someones game play, or doing the dragon quests (imo) since not everyone has money for gold or a credit card. When a mod finally drops a oracle you see someone whose around 5x camping the oracle sight that might ruin someones game play. Or if a high lvl needs dq's from mobs that you need for a quest on Dawns Cry (they're hard enough to fight without getting the poison stack) that can ruin the game.

What I'm trying to say is different things can ruin a persons game play but there's always some form of something someone either created (3rd party program) or just someone knowing how to play the game that can ruin someones play. I don't bot so I don't support them. Even if I wanted to bot, it'd be pointless, just another way to power lvl which I find to be useless and pointless. So yes they do ruin the game but if they're not bugging you in any way then it shouldn't and if you say they're altering the economy they're just one person out of all the other players who probably don't even bot and still raise prices of things.

But I'll drop the subject doesn't seem like my points getting across and like Spoons said "I sound like I'm supporting them" and I don't feel like being under investigation or anything.

Oracles and stuff be part of normal game play, and they cost something in order to get in the first place. Botting = free and the botter actually GAINS coins in addition to exp.

MzTeacake - Raging Tide wrote: »

Yeah you posted before I was done writing, lol. No one really explained to me they just said they allow you to bot, and everyone power lvls to lvl cap. Was just confused on why they'd put such a thing within a game and only do it in one of their games(?)

first it isn't really botting....it be a continual exp gain while meditating in safe zones.
o and that be because Jade Dynasty be more like....a training MMORPG for very very veeery casual gamers. b:chuckle
but even there the free level be through meditation which still doesn't give anyone money and gear.

Zoe - Heavens Tear · January 2010

MzTeacake - Raging Tide wrote: »

Yeah you posted before I was done writing, lol. No one really explained to me they just said they allow you to bot, and everyone power lvls to lvl cap. Was just confused on why they'd put such a thing within a game and only do it in one of their games(?)

JD is admittedly a pvp based game. Pvp is the entire focus of the game really, so they push you to level as fast as you can to suit that purpose. Even though the game is incredibly unbalanced.b:surrender

I'm running my bot in JD right now.b:chuckle Although I do spend much of the time actually playing the game, not simply botting.

PWI and JD, huge difference in what botting does to the game. I do not want botting in any game other than JD, it just ruins the game.

MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »

first it isn't really botting....it be a continual exp gain while meditating in safe zones.

No, it really is botting. You set it up and your character kills monsters, uses skills, uses hp/mp pots and picks up drops when you are afk. They don't call it botting though they call it "Invorgating"

PWI Preventing Botting Discussion.

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