PvP balance/ GMs we get some devs here?

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  • JadeFarmer - Dreamweaver
    JadeFarmer - Dreamweaver Posts: 126 Arc User
    edited January 2010
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    Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

    this is talking about PvP balance anyway

    Oh sorry, i didnt know hit/evade rates were different in PvP and PvE.

    Could you enlighten me to what the differences are please?
    It is better to remain silent and be thought the fool then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited January 2010
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    it's not that it's different, it's just that what works in PvE doesn't work out as well in PvP

    as you're grinding, you can miss 3/4 times on a mob but overall it's probably still 99% you didn't miss (which is what i'm assuming your hit rate on mobs is w/ dual misties). you can also more or less have 25% evade against physical mobs, and that works out because you can take like 20 hits or more and it'd help you survive. evasion/accuracy in PvE is fine IMO

    as you're pvping having the same mechanics is a lot more BS, because the number of hits you deal and take makes a much smaller sample size. this is why evasion would be worthless in PvP, no one can depend on a 25% evade rate, for example. at around 4 consecutive hits you would DIE.
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
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    Qui: b:dirty
  • Darksylph - Heavens Tear
    Darksylph - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,816 Arc User
    edited January 2010
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    Kinohki - Lost City wrote: »
    Actually, thsi game does need some serious balancing. As it is, evasion is useless. USELESS. With over 3.2k unbuffed evasion and near 4k evasion, 6k with will, people can still hit me accurately, even melee. This is due to misties in which 2 give 100% accuracy. These rings SHOULD NOT stack. In fact, I think accuracy shouldn't stack at all that way Evasion has some use.

    2x Misties do not give 100% accuracy. They give 100% of your current Accuracy stat. If you have 1000 Acc, now you have 2000. You are not a guarenteed hitter. +100% = double your Acc. Since things give deminishing returns on stats in this game, if your 1000 acc grants a 76% hit%, double that for 2000 might only give 84% against mobs & players at your level (numbers pulled from out of my behind, and not factual, merely example). Noone gets immunity to missing from 2 misties, this is a common misconception.
  • rikako
    rikako Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited January 2010
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    **** should be like in [removed], aoes should be dodgeable by kiting, projectiles should be dodgeable by kiting.
  • Esque - Lost City
    Esque - Lost City Posts: 97 Arc User
    edited January 2010
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    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    yes...marrows are utterly useless in pvp

    not like bm's can get 10k of each resist at 90+ with marrow on easy

    10k.jpg

    demon magic marrow

    swinder's neck +7

    demon slaughter belt +7

    cape of tauren and all other pieces of armour refined to +6, stacked with immac sapphires, and still with 5.7k hp.



    ijs
    Allnighte - knn read pwdatabase laio, rank6 weap needs all of the badges la.
    rank8 laio just la needs laio rep la

    Naevo - o wait dis be pw-my-en? ding dong la
  • Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear
    Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,222 Arc User
    edited January 2010
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    Esque - Lost City wrote: »
    10k.jpg

    demon magic marrow

    swinder's neck +7

    demon slaughter belt +7

    cape of tauren and all other pieces of armour stacked with immac sapphires and still with 5.7k hp.



    ijs

    That kinda throws Joshcja statement out the window.
    Executor Of Reunited ~ Level 3 ~ Level 85+ ~ No Drama, No Pressure Faction.

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  • Lenn_ - Sanctuary
    Lenn_ - Sanctuary Posts: 507 Arc User
    edited January 2010
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    Esque - Lost City wrote: »
    10k.jpg

    demon magic marrow

    swinder's neck +7

    demon slaughter belt +7

    cape of tauren and all other pieces of armour refined to +6, stacked with immac sapphires, and still with 5.7k hp.



    ijs
    i believe he was using this little thing called sarcasm, and knew it was possible, but was being sarcastic at the previoous poster
  • Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear
    Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,222 Arc User
    edited January 2010
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    Ok lets say magic wasnt 100% accurate and that was under the same as melee skills being able to miss and was based on accuracy, how would u feel in FF or TT or BH or anything if the heals cast were to miss by a cleric? Magic doesn't miss because its needed heavily by a cleric not to miss in order to keep the party alive, can u imagine a cleric throwing up BB and its effects miss the barb and he dies?
    Executor Of Reunited ~ Level 3 ~ Level 85+ ~ No Drama, No Pressure Faction.

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    PoisonedTip - Veno 7x (Retired)
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  • Nelae - Heavens Tear
    Nelae - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,490 Arc User
    edited January 2010
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    Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Ok lets say magic wasnt 100% accurate and that was under the same as melee skills being able to miss and was based on accuracy, how would u feel in FF or TT or BH or anything if the heals cast were to miss by a cleric? Magic doesn't miss because its needed heavily by a cleric not to miss in order to keep the party alive, can u imagine a cleric throwing up BB and its effects miss the barb and he dies?

    I am sure the OP would enjoy 1 cleric per server (at best) xD
    b:dirty
  • Monoftalmus - Heavens Tear
    Monoftalmus - Heavens Tear Posts: 701 Arc User
    edited January 2010
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    Post about balance here is general, not aimed at a class, but open for others to add something aswell.

    btw the 80 something wizard which posted here that thinks this thread is about some pvp deaths etc should really consider HT is a pve server and there arent any cry about deaths and so on. Also, killing 101 bm 1 on 1 sword/fist user is not something easy let alone theres probably not a single BM on HT server that had as much TWs as I did. So consider this a chat, no need to QQ about the thread itself or the ideas others have.

    I think that evasion is bugged because it is not designed as ''Physical Attack Evasion'' but just ''Evasion'', also every so often my archer friends say they have missed a low dex user.. and they got 1 shot by a magical user.

    In case mentioned above, myself and many i know have 9-10+ k magic res with sage or demon marrow, still, there should be a % of 100% resistance on magic attacks, for example 10k res could give 10% chance to resist spell.. etc

    Also friendly magic buffs are not something players want to resist so it is very normal that positive buffs arent resisted.b:chuckle
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  • rikako
    rikako Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited January 2010
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    as said projectilies and aoes should be kiteable, not a % chance to dodge.
  • Nelae - Heavens Tear
    Nelae - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,490 Arc User
    edited January 2010
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    LuL then you and your friends need to rethink before u judge any balance.

    I would agree to this if we magic class folks get some magic attacks or what ever that cost 0MP, yes u heard me 0MP and on top of that it must be fast channeling spell (like Instant , 0.5sec cool down) + decent dmg.
    Why?
    Cause unlike us u dont need to use skills to do dmg, while we have absolutely no choice. And further more we have long channeling spells, so while we do 1 hit, you do like woot 4-5hits?

    And there are many more reasons why it would bring more unbalance then balance.
    b:dirty
  • Cernunnosx - Heavens Tear
    Cernunnosx - Heavens Tear Posts: 384 Arc User
    edited January 2010
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    Well to balance it up you dont need to make mag attacks miss, just make all skills for all classes 100% accurate. b:victory

    Edit:

    But seriously

    Mag attacks shouldnt miss due to their nature of being magic BUT evasion should act as an extra resistance vs magical attacks.

    Ie: You have 2k evasion and 3k mag res, against mag attacks these would add up to 5k Mag Resistance.

    Since high evasion should make you able to move from the major impact point...

    "Tis but a flesh wound"
  • Mumintroll - Heavens Tear
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,393 Arc User
    edited January 2010
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    Nelae - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    LuL then you and your friends need to rethink before u judge any balance.

    I would agree to this if we magic class folks get some magic attacks or what ever that cost 0MP, yes u heard me 0MP and on top of that it must be fast channeling spell (like Instant , 0.5sec cool down) + decent dmg.
    Why?
    Cause unlike us u dont need to use skills to do dmg, while we have absolutely no choice. And further more we have long channeling spells, so while we do 1 hit, you do like woot 4-5hits?

    And there are many more reasons why it would bring more unbalance then balance.
    This is very good point. Especially mages. Their channeling time is horrible. And BM with their stunts is also horrible. They can hit 4x while I channel some more powerful spell. Of course if I'm not stunned as always.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Seablue - Sanctuary
    Seablue - Sanctuary Posts: 261 Arc User
    edited January 2010
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    Nelae - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    LuL then you and your friends need to rethink before u judge any balance.

    I would agree to this if we magic class folks get some magic attacks or what ever that cost 0MP, yes u heard me 0MP and on top of that it must be fast channeling spell (like Instant , 0.5sec cool down) + decent dmg.
    Why?
    Cause unlike us u dont need to use skills to do dmg, while we have absolutely no choice. And further more we have long channeling spells, so while we do 1 hit, you do like woot 4-5hits?

    And there are many more reasons why it would bring more unbalance then balance.

    Instant + 0.5 sec cd means that you can cast that spell twice in a sec, transform that into frequency is 2 spell/sec. Not even fist hit that fast (without -interval and attack speed buff). Also you have 20m spell range? You have got to be kidding me.
  • Nelae - Heavens Tear
    Nelae - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,490 Arc User
    edited January 2010
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    Seablue - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Instant + 0.5 sec cd means that you can cast that spell twice in a sec, transform that into frequency is 2 spell/sec. Not even fist hit that fast (without -interval and attack speed buff). Also you have 20m spell range? You have got to be kidding me.

    LoL that was me being sarcastic in pointing out why it should not be....b:chuckleb:surrender
    b:dirty
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited January 2010
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    lols not 20 meters at endgame.

    clerics max at 28 meters, venos at 27, wizards at 30. demon/sage lvl of individual skills give those ranges.

    anyways, i don't think you should be able to evade magic completely because channel speed makes it kind of unfair if they can be evaded. it's not like you can't pop a defense charm or activate a genie skill when you see a big nuke coming either.

    on the other hand, what about the physical classes that have long channeled skills? why is it that they get to miss? i personally think anything with more than 2s channel in any class shouldnt miss. it's just stupid when it does. clerics can say "what if our heals miss?" well archers can say "what if our sharptooth misses?" (o wait it does!)
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited January 2010
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    well....
    the OP obviously hasn't played too many MMORPGs.....
    b:surrender
    me could probably count on one paw how many that actually allows magic to miss....
    (resisting magic does not equal miss.....)


    also dodging skills by kiting?
    EXCELLENT IDEA!
    XD
    me would be the most invincible hamster ever.....*cough hamtastic reflexes and years of FPS experience*

    also ya....
    wizard = magic user.....why can't we precast skills lol.
    b:surrender
    QQ~
    /sarcasm....
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  • Nelae - Heavens Tear
    Nelae - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,490 Arc User
    edited January 2010
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    Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

    on the other hand, what about the physical classes that have long channeled skills? why is it that they get to miss? i personally think anything with more than 2s channel in any class shouldnt miss. it's just stupid when it does. clerics can say "what if our heals miss"? well archers can say "what if our sharptooth misses?" 15s of wasted damage at a boss blah.

    You serious, or joking xD?
    Robed magic classes have (unless epicly shared and refined) the weakest p.def and by default low HP. That 1% when u miss does not count =P.

    And vs other melee class it keep's u on the edge....*archer misses*....few secs later *i could have killed u, i know that miss should be a crit*
    b:dirty
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited January 2010
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    Nelae - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    You serious, or joking xD?
    Robed magic classes have (unless epicly shared and refined) the weakest p.def and by default low HP. That 1% when u miss does not count =P.

    And vs other melee class it keep's u on the edge....*archer misses*....few secs later *i could have killed u, i know that miss should be a crit*

    i'm saying all spells that channel for a long time shouldn't miss even for physical classes. you have your argument for why spells on casters don't miss, why can't that apply for long channeled physical attacks? they can get interrupted just as easily by stun, and they cost mana too. how is channeling a 3s deadly shot and missing any more justifiable? why don't you have cyclone miss and keep you on the edge? it's only got a 1s channel.

    robies have very decent pdef at endgame and your gear don't need to be epic. honestly by 9x you should be able to afford some good pdef, at least 5k+ buffed, come on, ask any 9x robie who PvP at all (so not those who put in -chan mdef orns), who the hell paid attention to their gear and has less than that? those are not levels where you have **** poor pdef robes, those are the levels where you have stuff like 10k + pdef robes fully buffed.

    light armor ends up with, by far, the worst defense.
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • Miss_Tika - Lost City
    Miss_Tika - Lost City Posts: 730 Arc User
    edited January 2010
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    Monoftalmus - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    hi,

    I would like to open little talk about pvp balance now that there are many very high levels and that 1 year has passed b:victory

    I missed maybe few TW's for the last 14 or so months.. so I have some serious questions for Dev's and Gm's that I take responsible for taking info over to Dev team.

    Umm.. in short, I think this is the only game online where magic attacks dont miss and where melee attacks (non pet in this case) are being constantly reseted by players just walking b:chuckle

    On every other game online most powerfull dds have a balance in cases they miss the shot, but not here which is eventually pushing melee classes off the battle, more to this, archers can get 1 shot by magic attack and they can still (for whatever reason i dont know) miss players that dont have even 100 evasion b:victory

    1 question for GMs is how to keep track of this thread ty

    Anyone other with serious comments? b:pleased ty

    NEWSFLASH:

    PWI is not a real MMO. Stop treating it like one.
  • Mumintroll - Heavens Tear
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,393 Arc User
    edited January 2010
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    Wait till assassins will own all classes without problems(lv.90+). Then we will beg for changes.b:shocked
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Preppy - Dreamweaver
    Preppy - Dreamweaver Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited January 2010
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    And now the assassin have a skill that can make them miss any attack so is this closed?
  • Mumintroll - Heavens Tear
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,393 Arc User
    edited January 2010
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    Preppy - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    And now the assassin have a skill that can make them miss any attack so is this closed?

    Tackling Slash Level 10
    Range 4.5 Meters
    Mana 103.6
    Channel 0.1 seconds
    Cast 1.5 seconds
    Cooldown 15.0 seconds
    Weapon Daggers

    Requisite Cultivation Aware of Harmony
    Deals a damage equals to your basic physical attack plus
    - physical damage.
    Immobilize target for 11.4 seconds,and increases own Chi by 50

    Is this enough? I will be death in 11s. I don't mention another stunt skill and critical hits. They have more critical than archer.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • BIackTyphoon - Heavens Tear
    BIackTyphoon - Heavens Tear Posts: 249 Arc User
    edited January 2010
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    immobilize isn't stun. the only posivite thing is that the target wont run. tho melee don't need to run anyway lol. wizzis as well could win this cause of dmg ...archer would have a prob i guess(not if useing metal skill, sin have low mag def as well). and yes the skill even evades mag skills. so we are lucky^^(tho it evades normal phy attack as well)
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  • Kuroblood - Dreamweaver
    Kuroblood - Dreamweaver Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited January 2010
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    Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I'm all to familar with that, played it for 2 years. Though oddly enough, jade dynasty is even MORE unbalanced. I found that soooo hard to believe but its true.b:surrender

    lol how much more unbalanced can a game get? In [removed] you have Level 80's, that can be made in less then a month, running around at 2-3x normal running speed that 1hko max level TANKS with damage to spare....
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited January 2010
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    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Is this enough? I will be death in 11s. I don't mention another stunt skill and critical hits. They have more critical than archer.

    I hope by archer stun skill you don't mean Aim Low. Unless it's Demon Aim Low's chance to stun for 3 seconds, that skill is an immobilize (aka you can do anything but move)
  • Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear
    Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,222 Arc User
    edited January 2010
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    truekossy wrote: »
    I hope by archer stun skill you don't mean Aim Low. Unless it's Demon Aim Low's chance to stun for 3 seconds, that skill is an immobilize (aka you can do anything but move)

    I think she was talking about assassin's not archers.
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    Hunter_The - BM 1X (Rarely-Active)
  • Mumintroll - Heavens Tear
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,393 Arc User
    edited January 2010
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    Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I think she was talking about assassin's not archers.

    Yep. assassins.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited January 2010
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    rikako wrote: »
    **** should be like in [removed], aoes should be dodgeable by kiting, projectiles should be dodgeable by kiting.
    That is because [removed] goes through regular skill balancing and is a more competitive game than PWI.
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
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