A Misunderstanding

Zora_Link - Dreamweaver
Zora_Link - Dreamweaver Posts: 42 Arc User
edited December 2009 in General Discussion
Today I helped on 3 fb19s, 2 of them had no barbarian. On both of the fb19s with no barb i was asked to tank over the blademaster. We succeeded(barely) in killing the bosses, but they did not listen to what I was telling them. There seems to have been a widespread misunderstanding. Since both barbs and BMs have a certain amount of tanking prowess, ppl seem to be under the assumption that all melee users are good tanks. I'm posting to clear all this up for anyone who doesn't know. Assassins are STRICTLY damage dealers. We can't hold aggro very well, I know, I tried(however if the cleric has screwed up stats we can hold aggro over the cleric's healing alone). We cannot steal aggro if we lose it. We cannot take as many hits as a blademaster or barbarian. Now, I realize that assassins have good magic defense, but that will do no good if the boss pays us no mind. we simply are not tanks.

DO NOT ask an assassin to tank
DO NOT blame an assassin for not tanking well
DO NOT PASS GO
DO NOT Collect $200
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by Zora_Link - Dreamweaver on
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Comments

  • Skybelle - Sanctuary
    Skybelle - Sanctuary Posts: 595 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    First of all, if they're rude, just leave squad and let them suffer instead of dealing with them.

    Well, there's always people who have preconceptions about each class. Like BMs cannot tank, etc.

    So...just try not to think about it too much?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    my C H A R A C T E R S ; feel free to message me in game.
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  • Zora_Link - Dreamweaver
    Zora_Link - Dreamweaver Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    They weren't rude, they just wouldn't listen. And all my assassin friends have also been asked to tank over blademasters. I just think it needed to be cleared up.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Fuyukoneko - Heavens Tear
    Fuyukoneko - Heavens Tear Posts: 77 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Skybelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    First of all, if they're rude, just leave squad and let them suffer instead of dealing with them.

    Spoken like a true cleric b:thanks
  • DorkFish - Sanctuary
    DorkFish - Sanctuary Posts: 176 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    BladeMasters being HA users would be a better tank than a LA user for most jobs anyway. The jobs where an AA would be better are even fewer. I can't see how they could even begin to think an Assassin would be a better tank than a BladeMaster.

    I guess it just goes to show how little people think.

    ~DF
  • Deceptistar - Sanctuary
    Deceptistar - Sanctuary Posts: 10,454 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Zora_Link - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    They weren't rude, they just wouldn't listen. And all my assassin friends have also been asked to tank over blademasters. I just think it needed to be cleared up.
    Should ask them if they want a LA BM tank for them, then they might realize their mistake.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]lagunal8.deviantart.com
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  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    they expect you to be able to hold aggro like archers do. you can probably hold better than bms for that matter. just spark a lot or something...if they do ask you to tank, it's their responsibility for holding back on damage so you have aggro anyways. if they're not doing that then they're not being good squad mates
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • Skybelle - Sanctuary
    Skybelle - Sanctuary Posts: 595 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Fuyukoneko - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Spoken like a true cleric b:thanks

    *bows* Thank you, thank you. b:kiss

    p.s. Also not listening to you is an act of rudeness.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    my C H A R A C T E R S ; feel free to message me in game.
    Skybelle (cleric; currently on break) | Psybelle (psychic; rarely on) | Cocobelle (veno; current main)
  • Zora_Link - Dreamweaver
    Zora_Link - Dreamweaver Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »
    they expect you to be able to hold aggro like archers do. you can probably hold better than bms for that matter.
    THAT is where you're wrong. Assassins, as I've said, are STRICTLY damage dealers.

    And why would they think we can hold aggro like archers? Do we have big feathers for ears? Do we hold bows? Do we fly straight from the start of the game? If you think any of that is true, you need professional help.

    I've tried tanking, and seen many assassins try, and we all lose aggro as soon as the damage dealers make their move
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Skybelle - Sanctuary
    Skybelle - Sanctuary Posts: 595 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Zora_Link - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Do we have big feathers for ears?

    Now you're discriminating the NACS - National Archer and Cleric Society just because we have big feather headdresses. b:surrender

    On Topic: Qui said "they", not including herself. It's the preconception most people have that anyone who's LA/HA can tank. b:shutup
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    my C H A R A C T E R S ; feel free to message me in game.
    Skybelle (cleric; currently on break) | Psybelle (psychic; rarely on) | Cocobelle (veno; current main)
  • Sacronox - Harshlands
    Sacronox - Harshlands Posts: 505 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    In my experience.... sins skills just don't hold agro at all =P Even at similar levels with any squad.... i just can't steal or hold agro so far =P
    4x sin - Sacronox
    3x psy- Aegento
    5x wiz- Kimbley
    3x ea - Mavado

    Raging Tides-
    3x cleric- Ishmael
  • Zora_Link - Dreamweaver
    Zora_Link - Dreamweaver Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Headdresses? Those aren't ears? I thought they were ears. Well, the point I was making is that we look nothing like archers, so anyone who thinks we are like them is highly mistaken and needs to see a shrink/eyedoctor

    PS, if I was discriminating, I'm sorry. Now that I think about it, Tideborns are in no position to make fun of the WE feather ears, cuz we have fins for ears.

    I hereby form the BOSE (Brothership Of Strange Ears)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • _DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary
    _DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,294 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    At lower levels assassins barely have dagger mastery, no -int gear, low grade spark erupt and low weapon damage. Caster on the other hand are strolling around happily smashing off whopping chunks of damage. There's no way an assassin can hold agro against that.

    Maybe at 7x+ assassins will prove to be awesome agro holders (or annoying agro stealers) but at lower levels they're basically just extremely squishy bm's. BM's aren't even nearly good tanks until 5x+ and even then only with good gear and a bit of vit.
  • Skybelle - Sanctuary
    Skybelle - Sanctuary Posts: 595 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    At least I'd think they're headdresses. Unlike a tideborn who has fins for their ears, elves has the feathers AND ears. So I look at it as headdresses. b:angry
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    my C H A R A C T E R S ; feel free to message me in game.
    Skybelle (cleric; currently on break) | Psybelle (psychic; rarely on) | Cocobelle (veno; current main)
  • Zora_Link - Dreamweaver
    Zora_Link - Dreamweaver Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    All Join The Brothership Of Strange Ears! Humans not invited >.>

    btw Skybelle, just for the sake of argument, they are headdresses. What does that make the Fox Ears on a veno?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear
    OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    The first thing I think of when I see someone weilding a dagger and wearing leather armor is... "OMG....TANK!!!!" I mean, that's gotta be the best possible combination of weapon and armor for tanking ever! I mean, assassin? The class name just oozes tanking goodness since they must be straight up, in your face fighters!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • DorkFish - Sanctuary
    DorkFish - Sanctuary Posts: 176 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    The first thing I think of when I see someone weilding a dagger and wearing leather armor is... "OMG....TANK!!!!" I mean, that's gotta be the best possible combination of weapon and armor for tanking ever! I mean, assassin? The class name just oozes tanking goodness since they must be straight up, in your face fighters!

    My Sarcasm detector has exploded. You are now required to replace it.

    ~DF
  • Zora_Link - Dreamweaver
    Zora_Link - Dreamweaver Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    The first thing I think of when I see someone weilding a dagger and wearing leather armor is... "OMG....TANK!!!!". I mean, that's gotta be the best possible combination of weapon and armor for tanking ever! I mean, assassin? The class name just oozes tanking goodness since they must be straight up, in your face fighters!
    HAHA what the hell

    By the time you reached the red point I was already on the ground
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    _DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    At lower levels assassins barely have dagger mastery, no -int gear, low grade spark erupt and low weapon damage. Caster on the other hand are strolling around happily smashing off whopping chunks of damage. There's no way an assassin can hold agro against that.

    Maybe at 7x+ assassins will prove to be awesome agro holders (or annoying agro stealers) but at lower levels they're basically just extremely squishy bm's. BM's aren't even nearly good tanks until 5x+ and even then only with good gear and a bit of vit.

    i still think they hit harder than bms. it's a fb19, no worries whoever gets aggro lol
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • Zora_Link - Dreamweaver
    Zora_Link - Dreamweaver Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    True, but low levels or not, if they don't figure out that assassins are fail tanks soon they'll die in fb29.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • _DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary
    _DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,294 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »
    i still think they hit harder than bms. it's a fb19, no worries whoever gets aggro lol

    Hard to tell at that level really. I seem to remember my level 20bm with supply stash hammers hit a lot harder per hit than an assassin of the same level. Sure assassins hit a bit faster, but still pretty uncertain who has the higher DPS.

    Baffles me how players don't look at equipment/type/class whatsoever and just automatically assume "clerics heal, melee tanks, everybody else pewpew". I've actually seen entire BH squads happily rush off to die with a melee paliden as a cleric, despite every warning and protest. Sometimes I get the impression a barb (example) could be 0 vit, arcane and weilding a wooden stick and the squad would happily throw him into a boss expecting everything to work out. O_o
  • Zora_Link - Dreamweaver
    Zora_Link - Dreamweaver Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    _DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    a barb (example) could be 0 vit, arcane and weilding a wooden stick and the squad would happily throw him into a boss expecting everything to work out. O_o

    I'd pay money to see that
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    that would be a new class, called a mother****ing shaman!
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • Rheth - Sanctuary
    Rheth - Sanctuary Posts: 105 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    DorkFish - Sanctuary wrote: »
    BladeMasters being HA users would be a better tank than a LA user for most jobs anyway. The jobs where an AA would be better are even fewer. I can't see how they could even begin to think an Assassin would be a better tank than a BladeMaster.

    I guess it just goes to show how little people think.

    ~DF

    As a 72 LA cleric I can say that I am able to tank every fb boss to the last one in the fb 39. At a certain point Levels over the bosses can make it possible to tank as LA, but never do I expect to tank fb 51. There are bosses out there that are better suited for a non barb tanker such as qianji in the fb 59. My barb [78] was never a better tanker than an AA wizy. In my pure opinion it doesnt matter on the armor you wear. It is if you can deal the damage, can keep the aggro, and can with stand the damage the boss deals, meaning if you are LA or under level you have amazing clerics on your side. Its all in the clerics b:victory
  • OneHottShot - Heavens Tear
    OneHottShot - Heavens Tear Posts: 704 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Rheth - Sanctuary wrote: »
    As a 72 LA cleric I can say that I am able to tank every fb boss to the last one in the fb 39. At a certain point Levels over the bosses can make it possible to tank as LA, but never do I expect to tank fb 51. There are bosses out there that are better suited for a non barb tanker such as qianji in the fb 59. My barb [78] was never a better tanker than an AA wizy. In my pure opinion it doesnt matter on the armor you wear. It is if you can deal the damage, can keep the aggro, and can with stand the damage the boss deals, meaning if you are LA or under level you have amazing clerics on your side. Its all in the clerics b:victory

    There are also other bosses you can tank better than barbs/bms. Such as zimo in fb 59. Mantavip etc..each class has a str and a weakness.
  • Giodia - Heavens Tear
    Giodia - Heavens Tear Posts: 475 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Zora_Link - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    THAT is where you're wrong. Assassins, as I've said, are STRICTLY damage dealers.

    And why would they think we can hold aggro like archers? Do we have big feathers for ears? Do we hold bows? Do we fly straight from the start of the game? If you think any of that is true, you need professional help.

    I've tried tanking, and seen many assassins try, and we all lose aggro as soon as the damage dealers make their move

    A sin tanked BH 29 throughout last night...and we managed to clear it....

    The art of sin tanking is to allow the sin to take out more than 24-30 % of the boss or mob HP before DD steps in.

    If you know that and told your team accordingly... you would have an easier time. Apparently.... you did not realise or failed to tell your squad.

    kkthxbai
  • XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver
    XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver Posts: 455 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    This topic enrages and confuses me.

    By making accusations that assassins can't tank, you're indirectly insulting the blood, sweat and tears that hard-working Clerics put into keeping people like you alive each and every day. After all...in almost EVERY situation that requires a dedicated damage tank (save those where the tank is grossly overpowered in relation to the situation), there are two primary components that make the 'tank' system work; the person taking the hits/holding the mob's attention, and the healer keeping them alive.

    To say that there's no way you should be able to tank as well as a BM is an outrage to Elven folk such as myself that try to keep an open mind about who can and can't tank any given boss at any given moment! Not to mention an insult to both your damage dealing capability and our healing capacity as a whole!

    Good suh...

    *SLAP*

    I DEMAND SATISFACTION!
  • DorkFish - Sanctuary
    DorkFish - Sanctuary Posts: 176 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver wrote: »

    I DEMAND SATISFACTION!

    Sorry, my wife would object to such a Liason.

    ~DF
  • Jellytops - Heavens Tear
    Jellytops - Heavens Tear Posts: 141 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Just one thought. Did you actually tell them that you weren't the right choice for a tank, or did you just assume they knew? There are alot of fresh players atm, and if they've never played the game before, they don't know which class does what. Sure, they could maybe have guessed by the name that a sin is not a tank. But if you don't know if the players are fresh or just alt's, you should have explained it to them. The first thing I do when I'm helping on a FB/TT or something, is to ask if everyone have done it before. That way I can explain things and not end up with "BAH, you should've..." or "NOOO, you can't....".

    That's just my opinion though :0)
    *-*-*When I wears my flashing sword and my hand takes hold on judgment. I will take vengeance upon mine enemies and I will repay those who hate me. Oh lord, raise me to thy right hand and count me among thy saints.*-*-*
  • Paer - Raging Tide
    Paer - Raging Tide Posts: 65 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Well on my first fb19 run with 3 sins. ON my tb psy they actually said "who's going to tank". Then they said are you going to tank? And they had all their characters looking at me. Because we all know AA pure build is WAY better tanking than LA classes who actually ahve some dodge. Seriously, i hate morons.
  • RedPeach - Lost City
    RedPeach - Lost City Posts: 38 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Zora_Link - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    THAT is where you're wrong. Assassins, as I've said, are STRICTLY damage dealers.

    And why would they think we can hold aggro like archers? Do we have big feathers for ears? Do we hold bows? Do we fly straight from the start of the game? If you think any of that is true, you need professional help.

    I've tried tanking, and seen many assassins try, and we all lose aggro as soon as the damage dealers make their move

    sry b:surrender couldn't resist.
    (I know your meaning tho, just found it funny :p)

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