Running two PWI clients on the same PC!!

Gyonax - Heavens Tear
Gyonax - Heavens Tear Posts: 53 Arc User
edited December 2009 in Chronicles
I don't know if this was possible before this latest patch, or if it's a bug, or if it's alright to do it. But apparently, you can run two clients on the same pc now. I just tried and was able to complete a trade between my two catshop alts on two different accounts.

[not allowed]
Post edited by Gyonax - Heavens Tear on
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Comments

  • Aadi - Lost City
    Aadi - Lost City Posts: 4,449 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Wow, I just tried that to see if it would work, and it did.

    It was against the TOS because it was editing client files...so maybe it's not anymore?

    Spoons tell us before you take the weekend off b:surrender
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "aadi is a forum ninja, always there, skirting thru the shadows... striking with quick posts while you are distracted by your own" -Alexeno(kin)
    "We talk about you because you're fab. b:cute" -Chillum
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  • RawrzWolf - Sanctuary
    RawrzWolf - Sanctuary Posts: 371 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    I belive that this is not and exploit and not a problem, IF your 2nd account is a Catshop. That would be extremely handy!

    Only problem would be RAM usage.. It'd lag many people's computers to no end..
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • prnflake
    prnflake Posts: 65 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    RawrzWolf - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I belive that this is not and exploit and not a problem, IF your 2nd account is a Catshop. That would be extremely handy!

    Only problem would be RAM usage.. It'd lag many people's computers to no end..

    use low quality on your shop. works with 1gb ram when in mass pvp with your main :3
  • RawrzWolf - Sanctuary
    RawrzWolf - Sanctuary Posts: 371 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    prnflake wrote: »
    use low quality on your shop. works with 1gb ram when in mass pvp with your main :3

    ^-^ That'll work
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Aadi - Lost City
    Aadi - Lost City Posts: 4,449 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    RawrzWolf - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I belive that this is not and exploit and not a problem, IF your 2nd account is a Catshop. That would be extremely handy!

    Only problem would be RAM usage.. It'd lag many people's computers to no end..

    Why would it make any difference whether or not it was a catshop?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "aadi is a forum ninja, always there, skirting thru the shadows... striking with quick posts while you are distracted by your own" -Alexeno(kin)
    "We talk about you because you're fab. b:cute" -Chillum
    "You live for forums. Like seriously."
  • ShoeFury - Sanctuary
    ShoeFury - Sanctuary Posts: 264 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    darthpanda16 wrote: »
    You can not multi-client on the same physical computer. If you're caught, you're banned.

    Guess that clears it up.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Joined Aug 2008 on HT--
    Just lurkin' the forums these days and makin' occassional stupid posts
  • Aadi - Lost City
    Aadi - Lost City Posts: 4,449 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    ShoeFury - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Guess that clears it up.

    Taken out of context.

    WHY is it bannable?

    Because it's editing client files.

    If you don't edit client files...it changes everything. That's why we're unsure.

    Everyone knows it's normally bannable. I didn't even log in with the other one, just saw if it opened and it did fine.

    Edit:
    shnuggles wrote:
    Additionally, running more than one client on one pc would require a modification to the client (or otherwise on the pc) which we state in the terms of service that action is not allowed. Best way to explain it would be that the majority of people doing this are either gold farmers, cheaters (bypassing the normal ebb and flow of the game client to make an advantage for themselves), or botters. All of the previously listed are against the Terms of Service that you all agreed to when creating the account. So basically, play fair and your community will be much more fun to play the games in.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "aadi is a forum ninja, always there, skirting thru the shadows... striking with quick posts while you are distracted by your own" -Alexeno(kin)
    "We talk about you because you're fab. b:cute" -Chillum
    "You live for forums. Like seriously."
  • DrazoThePsy - Dreamweaver
    DrazoThePsy - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,167 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    I believe running multiple instances of PWI on the same machine is against the ToS even if you don't edit any files.

    We should receive a official confirmation in another 3 hours (and a thread lock).
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Aadi - Lost City
    Aadi - Lost City Posts: 4,449 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    DrazoThePsy - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I believe running multiple instances of PWI on the same machine is against the ToS even if you don't edit any files.

    We should receive a official confirmation in another 3 hours (and a thread lock).

    If it is, now I'm really curious why.

    I've always been the first to say that you have to modify the files and therefore it's against the TOS, but now I'm not so sure. If it is still against the TOS, I'd like to know what part of the TOS it actually is against in this case.

    Or possibly it's a technical glitch that will be fixed so you can't do that anymore.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "aadi is a forum ninja, always there, skirting thru the shadows... striking with quick posts while you are distracted by your own" -Alexeno(kin)
    "We talk about you because you're fab. b:cute" -Chillum
    "You live for forums. Like seriously."
  • Nelae - Heavens Tear
    Nelae - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,490 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Aadi - Lost City wrote: »
    If it is, now I'm really curious why.

    I've always been the first to say that you have to modify the files and therefore it's against the TOS, but now I'm not so sure. If it is still against the TOS, I'd like to know what part of the TOS it actually is against in this case.

    Or possibly it's a technical glitch that will be fixed so you can't do that anymore.

    I am sure i heave seen spoons and other GM's write that it's not legal to run multiple clients from the same machine. Even when someone said "what about virtual PC" the answer was NO. And note that with virtual PC you also do not change any game files...

    So i gaze in the future and see spoons say "You can not, thread closed"
    b:dirty
  • Gyonax - Heavens Tear
    Gyonax - Heavens Tear Posts: 53 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    So we just chalk it up to a technical glitch in the new patch... and move on. b:chuckle
  • Aadi - Lost City
    Aadi - Lost City Posts: 4,449 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Nelae - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I am sure i heave seen spoons and other GM's write that it's not legal to run multiple clients from the same machine. Even when someone said "what about virtual PC" the answer was NO. And note that with virtual PC you also do not change any game files...

    So i gaze in the future and see spoons say "You can not, thread closed"

    That's another issue that I was thinking about. It makes me wonder if this is a "spirit of the rules" kind of issue...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "aadi is a forum ninja, always there, skirting thru the shadows... striking with quick posts while you are distracted by your own" -Alexeno(kin)
    "We talk about you because you're fab. b:cute" -Chillum
    "You live for forums. Like seriously."
  • Gyonax - Heavens Tear
    Gyonax - Heavens Tear Posts: 53 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    But yeah, that was no editing of any file. I took a ss of my new psychic and alt-tab'd out to look at it, then I saw this elementclient.exe file in the same folder and clicked on it and voila b:laugh
  • Nelae - Heavens Tear
    Nelae - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,490 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Aadi - Lost City wrote: »
    That's another issue that I was thinking about. It makes me wonder if this is a "spirit of the rules" kind of issue...

    Any ways the rule is full of ************** (insert any random word you want).

    What it says is, if you have 10 PC you can run 10 PWi's make so many Cat Shop alts or what ever but if you can afford only one, tough luck for you...
    b:dirty
  • Barbariankev - Heavens Tear
    Barbariankev - Heavens Tear Posts: 831 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    i just checked and it works for me could even log on a other server then my main then i imedatly logged out with the second client and closed it
    its impossible to always do the right thing we all make mistakes i am not different from that
    just try to be a good person

    english isn't my native language so there might be a few spelling/grammatical errors in my posts
  • axt57
    axt57 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    I think they log system information each time you log in... really shouldn't try this until a GM response.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Teny - Heavens Tear
    Teny - Heavens Tear Posts: 260 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    It's not really an exploit Gyo, but it's been mentioned before that it's a bannable offense, don't remember which Gm said it but it was a panda.

    If it no longer stops you from doing it then I doubt it's a bannable offense anymore.
    [SIGPIC]http://i56.tinypic.com/j8fvcn.png[/SIGPIC]
  • Barbariankev - Heavens Tear
    Barbariankev - Heavens Tear Posts: 831 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    i doubt the gms are gonna ban me for the half min i had 2 clients running
    its impossible to always do the right thing we all make mistakes i am not different from that
    just try to be a good person

    english isn't my native language so there might be a few spelling/grammatical errors in my posts
  • Sora_Kaiyou - Dreamweaver
    Sora_Kaiyou - Dreamweaver Posts: 66 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    I think this is affected by two parts of the ToS. Section 11 (User Conduct), parts K and L:

    # (k) Cheat or utilize unauthorized exploits in connection with the Games or the Service;
    # (l) Using or exploiting any bugs, errors, or design flaws to obtain unauthorized access to the Service or to gain an unfair advantage over other players,

    PWI was never intended to be run twice on the same computer at the same time. Spoons, Panda, and other GMs have said as much before. If it was not possible before and it is possible now, it is more than likely an error and utilizing it would be considered exploiting it. Using the two clients at the same time is an unfair advantage, whether one client is only running a shop or not. Example: Why should you get to go out and level up while selling things in a shop, and I have to stop and take time out of my leveling to sell anything?
  • Gyonax - Heavens Tear
    Gyonax - Heavens Tear Posts: 53 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Sora_Kaiyou - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I think this is affected by two parts of the ToS. Section 11 (User Conduct), parts K and L:

    # (k) Cheat or utilize unauthorized exploits in connection with the Games or the Service;
    # (l) Using or exploiting any bugs, errors, or design flaws to obtain unauthorized access to the Service or to gain an unfair advantage over other players,

    PWI was never intended to be run twice on the same computer at the same time. Spoons, Panda, and other GMs have said as much before. If it was not possible before and it is possible now, it is more than likely an error and utilizing it would be considered exploiting it. Using the two clients at the same time is an unfair advantage, whether one client is only running a shop or not. Example: Why should you get to go out and level up while selling things in a shop, and I have to stop and take time out of my leveling to sell anything?

    # (k) totally does not apply. There is no cheat, no modification.

    # (l) well, if it's a bug, do I get a reward for finding it? b:chuckle
  • VILKASS - Sanctuary
    VILKASS - Sanctuary Posts: 278 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    b:bye Can an actually GM please comment on this?
    b:cute [SIGPIC]http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o160/ChisaiUsagi/wewewe.jpg[/SIGPIC] b:cute
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    me sense teh major head scratching.
    b:puzzled
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
    Hawk:Do this. closing thread
    frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
    Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
    Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
    LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
    Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
    Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
    58% chance to get tokens
    41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
    1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Sora_Kaiyou - Dreamweaver
    Sora_Kaiyou - Dreamweaver Posts: 66 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Gyonax - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    # (k) totally does not apply. There is no cheat, no modification.

    # (l) well, if it's a bug, do I get a reward for finding it? b:chuckle

    K- Cheat or unauthorized exploit. It is clearly an unauthorized exploit.

    L- You get a "Thank you for telling us, we'll fix it as soon as possible."
  • Aadi - Lost City
    Aadi - Lost City Posts: 4,449 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Sora_Kaiyou - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    K- Cheat or unauthorized exploit. It is clearly an unauthorized exploit.

    L- You get a "Thank you for telling us, we'll fix it as soon as possible."

    I don't see it as so clear. I see how it might fit into this category, but I'd feel much safer knowing from a GM that it's a bug as opposed from a random player that insists he's right with no official knowledge.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "aadi is a forum ninja, always there, skirting thru the shadows... striking with quick posts while you are distracted by your own" -Alexeno(kin)
    "We talk about you because you're fab. b:cute" -Chillum
    "You live for forums. Like seriously."
  • Herne_Hunter - Sanctuary
    Herne_Hunter - Sanctuary Posts: 508 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    well a couple of questions okies so multi clienting is bannable right but what if i use 2 computers that is not bannable it doesnt add up, cause the reason for which i cant use 2 accnts on one computer is not being stopped i still can do the same if i have 2 machines to work on. If i can use 2 different accnts on 2 different computer why cant i use it on the same machine witout exploiting or making changes to any of the files PWI provided to me. More over the process which he showed is something which has been there from the very start of the game it was just a matter of time people knew how to do it. But seriously i think the rule of multi clienting is flawed as i said if we can use 2 accnts on 2 different computers why cant we do it from the same computer on different accnts. Its a question to everyone including GM's and dont show me the thread to the rules guess i know it by heart now but yeah its a question and if anyone can answer it, it be great.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]


    I want to go back to the time when innocence was Natural, getting high meant, on a swing. Drinking meant lemonade. Dad was the only Hero. Love was Mom's hug. Dad's shoulder was the highest place on earth. Worst enemies were siblings.
    Hurts were Bleeding knees. Broken things were only Toys. Goodbyes meant only till tomorrow!

    Life has changed a lot ....

    Hasn't it .. ?? ..b:sad
  • Sora_Kaiyou - Dreamweaver
    Sora_Kaiyou - Dreamweaver Posts: 66 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Aadi - Lost City wrote: »
    I don't see it as so clear. I see how it might fit into this category, but I'd feel much safer knowing from a GM that it's a bug as opposed from a random player that insists he's right with no official knowledge.

    The GMs have always said it's against the rules. Unless I missed a post that said "You can now multiclient with the expansion" somewhere, I'd say it's still against the rules.

    But if you have any doubt that you can get away with it, why do it in the first place?
  • Aadi - Lost City
    Aadi - Lost City Posts: 4,449 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Sora_Kaiyou - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    The GMs have always said it's against the rules. Unless I missed a post that said "You can now multiclient with the expansion" somewhere, I'd say it's still against the rules.

    But if you have any doubt that you can get away with it, why do it in the first place?

    I never did say I did it beyond seeing if it would open. I never even logged in another character. I'm not saying "do it if the GMs say it's against the rules", I'm just asking why if we're not editing client files.

    I quoted earlier in this thread the reasoning behind why it's bannable. Nothing to do with bugs or glitches. They also don't announce everything, and some things aren't intended bugs but they're allowed to get through and be used.

    I never said I'm certain this isn't against the rules either. I'm not, that's why I'm asking for a GM to post and tell us if it is and if yes, why. Is it because of bug/exploit? Or is it "spirit of the rules"?

    When people ask things like 'can I multi-client', I don't feel that telling them just no is enough. It's always better to tell them why, and I don't know why anymore. So I'd like to.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "aadi is a forum ninja, always there, skirting thru the shadows... striking with quick posts while you are distracted by your own" -Alexeno(kin)
    "We talk about you because you're fab. b:cute" -Chillum
    "You live for forums. Like seriously."
  • Shadowx - Dreamweaver
    Shadowx - Dreamweaver Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Herne_Hunter - Sanctuary wrote: »
    well a couple of questions okies so multi clienting is bannable right but what if i use 2 computers that is not bannable it doesnt add up, cause the reason for which i cant use 2 accnts on one computer is not being stopped i still can do the same if i have 2 machines to work on. If i can use 2 different accnts on 2 different computer why cant i use it on the same machine witout exploiting or making changes to any of the files PWI provided to me. More over the process which he showed is something which has been there from the very start of the game it was just a matter of time people knew how to do it. But seriously i think the rule of multi clienting is flawed as i said if we can use 2 accnts on 2 different computers why cant we do it from the same computer on different accnts. Its a question to everyone including GM's and dont show me the thread to the rules guess i know it by heart now but yeah its a question and if anyone can answer it, it be great.
    ^This, and the thread has made me aware that the patch allows someone who doesn't own MULTIPLE COMPUTERS to have the same benefit of having a shop open without restricting gameplay.
  • Sadpuma - Heavens Tear
    Sadpuma - Heavens Tear Posts: 286 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Sora_Kaiyou - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    The GMs have always said it's against the rules. Unless I missed a post that said "You can now multiclient with the expansion" somewhere, I'd say it's still against the rules.

    But if you have any doubt that you can get away with it, why do it in the first place?

    You are missing the point of this thread....

    Do you know WHY the GM's have said you cant multi-client? The reason is bc in the ToS it says you can not edit files. It does NOT say you cant multi-client. So when the GM's have said that you cant multi-client, they mean that you can not edit files (which was required at the time) in order to multi-client.

    The point of this thread is to find out if this was an error and considered a glitch. If it isnt, then there is nothing in the ToS from preventing you to legally use multi-client.

    Of course if it is considered a glitch (which is the most likely option), then exploiting that glitch is against the ToS.

    Until there is clarification, I dont see how anyone can get in trouble for using it. This is another example of poor communication from the PWI team and it's user-base....
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Darksylph - Heavens Tear
    Darksylph - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,816 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Herne_Hunter - Sanctuary wrote: »
    well a couple of questions okies so multi clienting is bannable right but what if i use 2 computers that is not bannable it doesnt add up, cause the reason for which i cant use 2 accnts on one computer is not being stopped i still can do the same if i have 2 machines to work on. If i can use 2 different accnts on 2 different computer why cant i use it on the same machine witout exploiting or making changes to any of the files PWI provided to me. More over the process which he showed is something which has been there from the very start of the game it was just a matter of time people knew how to do it. But seriously i think the rule of multi clienting is flawed as i said if we can use 2 accnts on 2 different computers why cant we do it from the same computer on different accnts. Its a question to everyone including GM's and dont show me the thread to the rules guess i know it by heart now but yeah its a question and if anyone can answer it, it be great.

    No this hasnt been there from the very start. If you look in your running processes, you'll see elementclient.exe running. Normally, & up till before this latest patch, trying to start a new instance of elementclient.exe would not work if one was already running in memory. Apparantly, whether intentional or accidental (the true real question) in this patch, it no longer checks if another instance of the program is running, to stop 2nd instances from opening.
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