What build are u?
Comments
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I wouldn't go so far as to say fail build, hp soak is flippin nice. It's like LA all over but the diff being in what will and won't one shot you.
ex: belial tt 2-3 4-5kish aoe phys, LA still hits 4k, if you don't have the hp you're screwed. With a full vit build you're pushing 6-7k easily and 8-10k with barb hp buff.
It's just like having a herc tank, all the def in the world can't save you if you can't soak the first hit.0 -
Hybrid Robe Veno mag and vit.0
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fixed.i can agree with many things you said but this is really fail since its never true on pvp servers
vit arcane and ha/aa are the cheapest pvp builds imo
forgive tweaki for being a wealthy veno.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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LA actually doesn't waste that dex. It gives us quite lovely evasion, and crit. Not to mention the lovely boost to accuracy we obtain from it and our Fox Form. To be able to hit, and dodge things at will, causing crits as you go... That is the way of an LA Veno. There is a reason we have an accuracy debuffing skill, after all.0
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DayzFade - Heavens Tear wrote: »ex: belial tt 2-3 4-5kish aoe phys, LA still hits 4k, if you don't have the hp you're screwed. With a full vit build you're pushing 6-7k easily and 8-10k with barb hp buff.
This is the kind of balogna I'm tired of seeing. Some of us get excluded from squads because of being a more efficient high def, low hp build. It hits you for 4-5 kish because you lack defense. My HP bar didn't go down any farther with less than 4k hp than the characters that were telling me I was gonna die.Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0 -
This is the kind of balogna I'm tired of seeing. Some of us get excluded from squads because of being a more efficient high def, low hp build. It hits you for 4-5 kish because you lack defense. My HP bar didn't go down any farther with less than 4k hp than the characters that were telling me I was gonna die.
Thank god those drops are only needed for one of our items, and than only 5 of them...
With the amount of people trying to run that boss that have no idea how to play the game, I am not surprized about the common assumption on the amount of HP needed.... This is like the all scorpion in FF thread you made...
On a side note, you could do belial with 1k pdef and 3.5k hp buffed IF the tank knew what they were doing and canceled the aoes. Even better if the BMs also know what they are doing and help the barbs cancel. There is still a small chance you would get wacked by a random attack, but thats very small chance, and if the cleric had BB up, it would be easy to survive.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
I have serious doubts about your 4k figure for light armor. I've been poking around Belial the last few days. At 87 and 13.5k pdef (heavy, ~81% DR), I was taking 700-1200 from the AOE. Light armor has ~60% the pdef of heavy, which would be 8100 pdef, or ~70% DR. So I wouldn't expect a light build to take more than about 2k from the AOE. Even in caster form they'd have about 5k pdef (~60% DR), which should cut the AOE to about 2.5k-3k. (A level 80 cleric with ~1k pdef who died multiple times reported about 7k damage from the AOE.)DayzFade - Heavens Tear wrote: »ex: belial tt 2-3 4-5kish aoe phys, LA still hits 4k, if you don't have the hp you're screwed. With a full vit build you're pushing 6-7k easily and 8-10k with barb hp buff.
Also, one of the cheap methods of killing Belial is with an archer tanking from range. They use light armor and don't get much more hp than venos.
Actually the chance is rather large. Every video I've seen of Belial being killed features at least one non-tank being hit or killed (usually killed) by a random aggro switch. The problem is when Belial switches aggro to a non-tank who's been staying out of AOE range, it moves. The interrupt skills are melee-range, so the tank types have to be in melee range to interrupt. If Belial moves, they are no longer in melee range, and cannot interrupt. They end up chasing until Belial stops to cast, and by the time they get close enough to interrupt again it's too late. I tried to come up with a solution for this, but couldn't since our group only had one interrupter. I suspect this is why many people recommended a barb and 2 BMs for this boss.IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »On a side note, you could do belial with 1k pdef and 3.5k hp buffed IF the tank knew what they were doing and canceled the aoes. Even better if the BMs also know what they are doing and help the barbs cancel. There is still a small chance you would get wacked by a random attack, but thats very small chance, and if the cleric had BB up, it would be easy to survive.
I expect bosses like this to become much easier with Psychics, if their "any hit can interrupt" debuff is worth anything.0 -
Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »Actually the chance is rather large. Every video I've seen of Belial being killed features at least one non-tank being hit or killed (usually killed) by a random aggro switch. The problem is when Belial switches aggro to a non-tank who's been staying out of AOE range, it moves. The interrupt skills are melee-range, so the tank types have to be in melee range to interrupt. If Belial moves, they are no longer in melee range, and cannot interrupt. They end up chasing until Belial stops to cast, and by the time they get close enough to interrupt again it's too late. I tried to come up with a solution for this, but couldn't since our group only had one interrupter. I suspect this is why many people recommended a barb and 2 BMs for this boss.
I expect bosses like this to become much easier with Psychics, if their "any hit can interrupt" debuff is worth anything.
Well, I guess I should had said "good squad". When I run it, everyone stays in AOE range and I mean EVERYONE, so the boss does not move. We also have the cleric with BB up being fed sparks, so he can quickly put BB back up in case it goes down. And we use apoc pots for when the BB does go down (or brumble or feral), or we feel a little extra squishy.
It requires a little coordination, but it is not as bad as people make it.
If the boss moves once the barb positions him (with its back to the rest of the people), than your party needs more practice.
You put Belial facing away from party so you get a little extra warning when he switches aggro, since he will spin around (without moving from its spot). That enables the bms and barb to interrupt and have belial face them again. If anyone is extra squishy, they can spark, use apoc pots to be invinsible, or damage reduced or brumble up or whatever, when they see the boss spin around. (before he casts, in case the interrupt misses).
In all my Belial runs, I don't remember my charm ticking once. I have almost 7k pdef buffed in fox form and 3500-3800ish HP unbuffed wearing robes.
As a backup, everyone in the group had either earthquake or LC on their genies, so it helped with the interrupts.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »Thank god those drops are only needed for one of our items, and than only 5 of them...
I needed 10 for my weapon
Of course, with the way drops are done on DW I was never higher than 4th pick, meaning I had to farm up about 7 items to sell to buy one of the item I needed. Fortunately, a good friend of mine is a barb that's more than happy to take advantage of his first pick to help me out.On a side note, you could do belial with 1k pdef and 3.5k hp buffed IF the tank knew what they were doing and canceled the aoes. Even better if the BMs also know what they are doing and help the barbs cancel. There is still a small chance you would get wacked by a random attack, but thats very small chance, and if the cleric had BB up, it would be easy to survive.
Some of the targeted nukes WILL hit. There's nothing the tank can do about that. I forget the exact amount offhand but it's something like 10% that will get through. If there's other classes that are interrupting all can be stopped in theory, but those interrupts still use accuracy, so if the physical hit misses the interrupt will miss.
One way you can survive them is using triple sparks. That never works for me though, I can never stop casting to hit spark in time.I have serious doubts about your 4k figure for light armor. I've been poking around Belial the last few days. At 87 and 13.5k pdef (heavy, ~81% DR), I was taking 700-1200 from the AOE. Light armor has ~60% the pdef of heavy, which would be 8100 pdef, or ~70% DR. So I wouldn't expect a light build to take more than 2k-2.5k from the AOE. (A level 80 cleric with ~1k pdef who died multiple times reported about 7k damage from the AOE.)
That's 81% against level 87 mobs, the mob in question is 150. Anyways, what I can tell you is in fox with physical gear at 92 or 93 or so I had 65% damage reduction and would take between 4k and 6k. I've seen level 90 BM's with 75% take 5-6k as well, but that's on the higher end of the spectrum. I've taken hits over 14k on it before but that's with channeling gear, human form, and no buffs.
It's seemed to me to be one of those things where you get some minor reduction up to a certain point, and then it drops off rather fast which doesn't really make sense with the rest of the game... but I assumed it was due to level reduction things.I tried to come up with a solution for this, but couldn't since our group only had one interrupter. I suspect this is why many people recommended a barb and 2 BMs for this boss.
Stand close. I would recommend a distance of between 10 and 15, that's close enough for it to not move. If you've got a marksman you can use that to find the distance (actually, marksman is my pet of choice on this because it's cheap to feed, avoids the close range attack, and fights close enough to not make belial run to it, I've found it dies more often than a herc when it's targeted, but dies less on average than a herc during the fight, though it does do less damage).0 -
Interesting. I would have thought that's the worst possible configuration. The moment Belial moves, it will be out of melee range of the barb and the barb would be chasing. If OTOH everyone were behind the barb, Belial would have to travel through the barb when it moved, allowing the barb to attack/interrupt without ever having to move.IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »If the boss moves once the barb positions him (with its back to the rest of the people), than your party needs more practice.
Thanks for the tip. I'll have to add that to the list of things to try.You put Belial facing away from party so you get a little extra warning when he switches aggro, since he will spin around (without moving from its spot). That enables the bms and barb to interrupt and have belial face them again.0 -
Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »Interesting. I would have thought that's the worst possible configuration. The moment Belial moves, it will be out of melee range of the barb and the barb would be chasing. If OTOH everyone were behind the barb, Belial would have to travel through the barb when it moved, allowing the barb to attack/interrupt without ever having to move.
Thanks for the tip. I'll have to add that to the list of things to try.
Just remember, his direct attack is a short range cast, so you have to be pretty darn close, like 10-15meters, as Brael said. If anyone is further away than that, than you chance having the boss move to close in to be in casting range.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
Are those AOE hits? I was wondering because its magic attack in pwdb was much much higher than the damage I was taking from the AOE. Unless they've got some sort of nonlinear distribution in the damage roll (highly unlikely IMHO), I have to think the AOE is limited to a small % of its magic attack. (Also trying to figure out if there's an AOE and a targeted nuke.)Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »That's 81% against level 87 mobs, the mob in question is 150. Anyways, what I can tell you is in fox with physical gear at 92 or 93 or so I had 65% damage reduction and would take between 4k and 6k. I've seen level 90 BM's with 75% take 5-6k as well, but that's on the higher end of the spectrum. I've taken hits over 14k on it before but that's with channeling gear, human form, and no buffs.
And yes I know 81% is against level 87 mobs. I was thinking the proportional difference between 80% and 60% DR is greatest at that level. That's 20% damage transmitted vs. 40% DT, or a 2:1 ratio. If the mob's high level turns that into 70% vs. 50% DR, that would be 30% DT vs. 50% DT, or a 1.67:1 ratio. So proportionately the lower pdef would do better.0 -
What about using a demon BM to keep doing aura of golden bell?
<<<squishy[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Well sadly I've only ever done 2 runs with belial and the first time was a failure but it was insanely fun trying diff methods.
The second time we ended up going the archer route which works really well but it's more of a sitting game for everyone else due to the random aggro.
Tweak I'm not saying the massive hp is a necessity it just helps. At 80 I was fully sharded with phys gems and never had any issues with being one shotted via phys attacks. The only issue was when a phys and mag attack were done back to back. It's always good to find some way to balance out your gear.
For players with immense phys def they need a way to soak what they can't take in magic dmg, for mag def the same applies to phys attack; and no matter what build you go with, the fact remains that you need some amt of hp to make up for the shortcomings if you don't plan to take the time with apoth or use the suggested spark block.
Edit: Anyone know if the def level applies to both phys and mag? Seems to do so to me so maybe if you have bundles of cash that's a great route as it covers both ends evenly. Curious as to whether it's x% added to gear bonus or if it's x% reduced automatically w/o gear reduction. Would make debuffer bosses like that harpy ho real cute and cuddly if it was a percent taken that's non gear dependant.0 -
DayzFade - Heavens Tear wrote: »Tweak I'm not saying the massive hp is a necessity it just helps. At 80 I was fully sharded with phys gems and never had any issues with being one shotted via phys attacks. The only issue was when a phys and mag attack were done back to back. It's always good to find some way to balance out your gear.
I'm using Perfect Garnets or better. After leveling, my mDef is exceeding my pDef, but before it was balanced. If I used Citrines, it would be even more unbalanced. If I did Citrines + Vit, it would be much more expensive, and I'd get far less return on Leech, I'd need more expensive HP pots, I'd have less MP, less mp recov, less mAtk, poorer pet healing and on and on. HP also comes from refines. With refines for HP, you're not sacrificing all those things, you're keeping your defenses high and HP fairly low which makes you operate more efficiently.For players with immense phys def they need a way to soak what they can't take in magic dmg, for mag def the same applies to phys attack; and no matter what build you go with, the fact remains that you need some amt of hp to make up for the shortcomings if you don't plan to take the time with apoth or use the suggested spark block.
Pure mag already has high mdef allowing it to take advantage of the cheaper garnet shards which fill in the short comings. HP for arcane venos should come from refines and equip stats, not vitality points or citrines.Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0 -
I was arcane build until lvl 70, then with my first TT-armor set I changed to light armor. Until the mid-90s where I realized, that the few more p.def weren't worth the loss in m.atk, so i restatted to arcane and I'm very satisfied now.
I only use citrine shards in every equip and an elemental neck and belt, so my p.def sucks a bit, but I don't mind. I do what I'm supposed to: dealing damage b:victory . Really funny everytime a barb looses aggro to me and the clerics start healing the archer or wiz first, because they don't expect a veno to steal aggro. b:laughShantilia (Veno) Lvl 101 (Main)-Sanctuary
Sheynea (Sin) Lvl 100 (2. Main :P)-Sanctuary0 -
I'm a heavy armour/arcane veno.
Initially I chose it because I liked the look of the heavy armours.
Since then the ability to stare down non magic mobs and live when they jump you (such as when they respawn next to you) while my pet is indisposed is beautiful!
Being able to switch to robes is nice too for when I need mdef.
I'll worry about finding the stats at later levels when I've the income to experiment with different gears (Famous last words?).0 -
I'm a heavy armour/arcane veno.
Initially I chose Heavy armour because I like what they look like.
Since then having the pdef to stare down, and kill, melee mobs that ambush me, by respawning next to me mostly, is fun.
Being able to switch to robes for the mdef when it's needed is nice too.0 -
LMAO i actually voted light armor, but the next day I restatted to vit/arcane
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Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »Are those AOE hits? I was wondering because its magic attack in pwdb was much much higher than the damage I was taking from the AOE. Unless they've got some sort of nonlinear distribution in the damage roll (highly unlikely IMHO), I have to think the AOE is limited to a small % of its magic attack. (Also trying to figure out if there's an AOE and a targeted nuke.)
Belial does physical damage, no magic damage.
As far as the moving part.
Make sure BB is just outside belial's range but within the bm's range so the mana drain aoe near the end won't hit the BB cleric. Also people should not stand near the BB cleric either because of the splash damage (aoe around the target he hits). And DD's have to stay inside BB but not too far away from belial, to prevent it from moving when he turns around. I've seen Belial move, but it was always kind of minimal.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Retsuko - Shifong
Karmapwi.com0 -
I Love beeing LA, i was arcane but i wanted feel some rush, i turned LA cuz i love the double even triple crits i do, i try to have max of crit %' hope one day i can get it at least to the 25%!! b:laugh0
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Thank u so much guys... i'm already going to robe veno.. with some vit... and some physical gems to balance my defense out.. lol0
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