Pure Dex and 6k HP

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear
Elenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
edited December 2009 in Archer
I hear that for an archer to tank Belial, the archer needs 6k HP unbuffed. How does the average Pure Dex archer do that?

I tried making a reasonable level 95 TT90 build: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=f0db693ad1fa7589 . +4 to all equipment, 3 Flawless shards each. The HP is only 5484.

Do Pure Dex archers just need to refine / socket more or get the event gear to get 6k HP? Or are 6k HP archers just rare?
Post edited by Elenacostel - Heavens Tear on
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  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Astypoo has 6k unbuffed i think...ask her for details

    i know Ast has Archer Terribleness (which is appropriate for her level actually) and a whole bunch of stats from the event cape and tome
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
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    Qui: b:dirty
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I hear that for an archer to tank Belial, the archer needs 6k HP unbuffed. How does the average Pure Dex archer do that?

    I tried making a reasonable level 95 TT90 build: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=f0db693ad1fa7589 . +4 to all equipment, 3 Flawless shards each. The HP is only 5484.

    Do Pure Dex archers just need to refine / socket more or get the event gear to get 6k HP? Or are 6k HP archers just rare?

    You should 4 socket the helm since it is cheap to socket and put more refines into the cape since it is grade 12. You need mostly +5 refine on armor and have some immaculate shards (which are cheapish now due to tokens). If you can get the 3rd map past belt it isnt much longer until you get the gold past belt which has more HP. That should get you close and any more would require lucky 4 socket armor.
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  • Collapse - Harshlands
    Collapse - Harshlands Posts: 467 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    6k HP is pushing it. I would say 6.5k just to be safe. When we did it on Harshlands, the archer who tanked actually went vit, instead of dumping a **** load into refines. Works well either way.
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  • Kireina - Dreamweaver
    Kireina - Dreamweaver Posts: 179 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I hear that for an archer to tank Belial, the archer needs 6k HP unbuffed. How does the average Pure Dex archer do that?

    I tried making a reasonable level 95 TT90 build: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=f0db693ad1fa7589 . +4 to all equipment, 3 Flawless shards each. The HP is only 5484.

    Do Pure Dex archers just need to refine / socket more or get the event gear to get 6k HP? Or are 6k HP archers just rare?

    Try using Immacs and Misty Forest Rings instead, they should add another 12 Vit. For 6k HP, you're gonna need 4 sockets on everything + Immacs to do it.
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  • Elenacostel - Heavens Tear
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Alright, then I'm going to go on the assumption that 6k Pure Dex archers are rare.
  • Kireina - Dreamweaver
    Kireina - Dreamweaver Posts: 179 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Alright, then I'm going to go on the assumption that 6k Pure Dex archers are rare.

    Pretty much, those with event boots with 4x Primeval and a Lunar cape could probably pull it off.
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  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=b0a7aa20211db20b

    Flawless swapped for Immacs, another slot on helm, misties, adding two more refines on cape, and upgrading to a level 3 dex/vit tome.

    So yeah. Rare unless you're rich enough to afford heavier refines and/or have full 4s gear with high grade gems thanks to tokens.
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Something like this, perhaps? http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=3613a2a27d5556aa

    4 socket immacs is funnily, what i have now on leggings and wrists. (b:cute Astypoo made it for me)

    i think this is realistic for a non CS archer. elite leather i've seen around for 15m or so, and guard of thundershock i'm sure you can get eventually.
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • Absoluth - Heavens Tear
    Absoluth - Heavens Tear Posts: 764 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    I've seen alot of 6k+ hp archers around. Its not that rare considering now hundreds (if not thousands) of players have the lunar stuff and high shards. I even did a few BHs with an 8k hp archer. She tanked all of eden, including boss (we didnt have any barb/bm/veno to tank). In fact, she tanked better than any barb/bm/veno ever did ^^

    Shifting a little dex into vit wont come even close to mssing up your pure build. Little vit, nice shards, proper gear and you'll get 6k+.
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  • Elenacostel - Heavens Tear
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Absoluth - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Shifting a little dex into vit wont come even close to mssing up your pure build. Little vit, nice shards, proper gear and you'll get 6k+.

    Oh, I'm not pure dex. I was just curious.
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    That reminds me when I was in a BH99 with 5 squishy arcanes and was the elected the defacto tank for all the bosses... fun fun.

    Its odd how that is doable at higher fb's but I would have never thought of it for lower fb's.

    I remember being terrified to tank fb29 the first time when I was level 50.
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  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    That reminds me when I was in a BH99 with 5 squishy arcanes and was the elected the defacto tank for all the bosses... fun fun.

    Its odd how that is doable at higher fb's but I would have never thought of it for lower fb's.

    I remember being terrified to tank fb29 the first time when I was level 50.

    b:chuckle another slice of Astypoo's story for when she was little hehehe

    Oh! poor Astypoo was terrified! Over the levels i've found that whatever doesn't do more than 1/2 my hp in 1 hit i will be able to survive with a good cleric. As the only high level archer in my old fac for a while, I was called upon to tank Suz very often, because the healer and everyone else could stay out of its AOE. Since then I have tanked a range of caster bosses and some melee bosses, the worst of which was DoD.

    "Heyy this isn't so bad...wait a minute...what's it doing? it's coming awfully close...AAAAAH IT HURTS IT HURTS!! GET IT OFF GET IT OFF GET IT OFF b:cry"
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • Transcend - Lost City
    Transcend - Lost City Posts: 448 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    I did it with 5.3k with a 100 cleric healing me, 6.5k would be way more than enough.
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  • TigerLily - Lost City
    TigerLily - Lost City Posts: 1,209 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    I tanked belial when i was like lvl 95 and had like 5k or so unbuffed was really not that bad. Just make sure you have BM buffs and 2 eps if 1 dies + absolute domain + pots if something goes bad. Charm use to tick a bit tho and sometimes it was pretty close to getting 1 shoot. But if you have decent phy def and goods clerics, you really don't need 6k unbuffed.

    Once you get get like 10k+ with hp boofs belial is kinda afk-mode for archers lol. I just do it with 1 ep now while i watch Gossip Gurl and eat cookies b:cute
    Alt tab back occasionally to see how many % is left b:sleep
  • Collapse - Harshlands
    Collapse - Harshlands Posts: 467 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Transcend - Lost City wrote: »
    I did it with 5.3k with a 100 cleric healing me, 6.5k would be way more than enough.

    b:scorn Well ive only done it with 9x EPs so thats where the 6k hp estimate comes from. We have no *good* Lv 100 Eps on HL b:chuckle
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  • Kireina - Dreamweaver
    Kireina - Dreamweaver Posts: 179 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Absoluth - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I've seen alot of 6k+ hp archers around. Its not that rare considering now hundreds (if not thousands) of players have the lunar stuff and high shards.

    Thousands? Lol wat. Lunar doesn't contribute to HP except for the cape. And I'm assuming that 6k+ you see so commonly is with buffs.
    I even did a few BHs with an 8k hp archer. She tanked all of eden, including boss (we didnt have any barb/bm/veno to tank). In fact, she tanked better than any barb/bm/veno ever did ^^

    Yeah I call bs on better than Barb. Mind explaining me how an Archer with from 8k (which is at least 5k less and a ton less Def) is better than a Barb?
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  • Whadafak - Harshlands
    Whadafak - Harshlands Posts: 150 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »

    Once you get get like 10k+ with hp boofs belial is kinda afk-mode for archers lol. I just do it with 1 ep now while i watch Gossip Gurl and eat cookies b:cute
    Alt tab back occasionally to see how many % is left b:sleep

    lol cookies are always good.
    i eat cookies everytime i play pw. while in tw, pk, shop mode.
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  • Dustinmurphy - Harshlands
    Dustinmurphy - Harshlands Posts: 564 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Just me fooling aroundb:surrender
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  • Quizenbort - Dreamweaver
    Quizenbort - Dreamweaver Posts: 71 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    6K Is easly achievable for archer if you just socket your armor with hp gems. I personnaly dont have any armor with hp gems in it and i have 5500hp. Or just get barb buff and you will be over 7k.
  • Elenacostel - Heavens Tear
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Quizenbort - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    6K Is easly achievable for archer if you just socket your armor with hp gems. I personnaly dont have any armor with hp gems in it and i have 5500hp. Or just get barb buff and you will be over 7k.

    HP Gems are not very "easy" to obtain, for the common folk.

    Think of the common people!!
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    HP Gems are not very "easy" to obtain, for the common folk.

    Think of the common people!!

    Elena in my eyes you are far from common b:shy
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  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    OMFG! How dare you hit on someone else Astypoo!

    You can have her Elena, congratulations on your new toy.
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • FitHitDShan - Sanctuary
    FitHitDShan - Sanctuary Posts: 276 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Whoa-hoa! Quilui is unattached? I'll have to spend more time in faction chat now. Or, maybe buying her Oracles.

    Hmmm - how to woo Qu?

    b:chuckle
    "?" IS my avatar.
  • Elenacostel - Heavens Tear
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »
    OMFG! How dare you hit on someone else Astypoo!

    You can have her Elena, congratulations on your new toy.

    Someone "else" implies someone in the first place.

    And yet... I've never seen her hit on you...
  • Vivetus - Sanctuary
    Vivetus - Sanctuary Posts: 34 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Kireina - Dreamweaver wrote: »

    Yeah I call bs on better than Barb. Mind explaining me how an Archer with from 8k (which is at least 5k less and a ton less Def) is better than a Barb?


    1.no worry about stealing aggro >.>
    2.faster kill
    3.better hold on aggro >.>
    4.no QQ over a charm ticking
    5. range might be an advantage?( idk im a lowbie so i havent been there )
    6. no waiting for hours to find a barb
    7.and most importantly we're lovable(sometimes) b:laugh
  • Kireina - Dreamweaver
    Kireina - Dreamweaver Posts: 179 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Vivetus - Sanctuary wrote: »
    1.no worry about stealing aggro >.>

    A good Barb can keep aggro just fine.
    2.faster kill

    Since when does a tank influence kill time? That's for DDs.

    3.better hold on aggro >.>

    The same as 1. rofl.

    4.no QQ over a charm ticking
    A tanking Archers charm would tick more often than a Barb's.

    5. range might be an advantage?( idk im a lowbie so i havent been there )

    Depends on the boss, but not really. If you mean Mag range attacks, a Wiz would be far more superior tanking that.
    6. no waiting for hours to find a barb

    Can't say I've ever had to in the two characters I leveled to 7x and 8x. Join a (better) faction or make more friends perhaps..?
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  • Elenacostel - Heavens Tear
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    What a way to derail a topic...

    If the tank is a Damage Dealer, and holds aggro sheerly through damage output and not skills, then yes, killing the target will go by faster than through a Barbarian tanking. This is because (1) you have an extra Damage Dealer, and because (2) the other damage dealers do not have to hold back on damage output.

    Also, it is difficult to find a Barbarian (note the wording) of same level to hold aggro from a damage dealer, with bosses without the ? level. So, in a TT, it is very easy for a Barbarian to hold aggro b/c damage is reduced by 75%, whereas aggro from aggro-skills is not reduced. But in FB/BH, there is no such reduction. Thus, typically damage dealers have to hold back, even with a decent Barbarian tanking. It is very easy for many people, Barbarians and damage dealers alike, to mix up these two situations. When evaluating a Barbarian's ability to hold aggro, you need to look in TT instances and in FB instances (i.e bosses with the ? and those without).

    I am not saying it is hard or impossible for a Barbarian to hold aggro in such instances. I am saying these above-average individuals are hard to find, especially if they are in random pickup groups.

    Anyways, from personal experience, I have a +4 weapon with a damage output that is equivalent to a +4 Dragonbow w/ 2 Immac shards. I am also of a hybrid build. Therefore, my damage output is significantly less than a Pure Dex archer with a Blinding Radiance +4 or better weapon. Yet, I often accidentally steal aggro from Barbarians on my BH runs. I can only assume those with greater damage output have even more such occurrences.

    Most of what Vivetus said is correct.
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Someone "else" implies someone in the first place.

    And yet... I've never seen her hit on you...

    oh you have no idea what goes on between us Teapot
    b:chuckleb:chuckle
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    OMGWTFBBQ you skip a screenie of me to lust after Decept?

    Deceptistar you can have her! Congrats on your new toy.

    but Teapot! I love how you're not against the idea at all~ *records dirty affair with camera*
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • Tomiko - Heavens Tear
    Tomiko - Heavens Tear Posts: 416 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Kireina - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    A good Barb can keep aggro just fine.

    The best barb in the world isn't going to hold agro worth a flip in an FB with DDs blasting

    Since when does a tank influence kill time? That's for DDs.

    It influences kill time when DDs can't spark or even auto-attack consistently.

    A tanking Archers charm would tick more often than a Barb's.

    If the archer can tank and not tick charm, what's the problem?

    Depends on the boss, but not really. If you mean Mag range attacks, a Wiz would be far more superior tanking that.

    Wizard can't keep agro over an archer. That's why you have an archer tank.

    10characters
  • angellicdeity
    angellicdeity Posts: 641 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Kireina - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    A good Barb can keep aggro just fine.



    Since when does a tank influence kill time? That's for DDs.




    The same as 1. rofl.



    A tanking Archers charm would tick more often than a Barb's.




    Depends on the boss, but not really. If you mean Mag range attacks, a Wiz would be far more superior tanking that.



    Can't say I've ever had to in the two characters I leveled to 7x and 8x. Join a (better) faction or make more friends perhaps..?



    No, in the case of Belial all of what you say isn't neccessarily true.


    When an archer tanks Belial clerics are outside of Belials AOE. Thats the entire point of making an archer tank Belial. And thus, an archer does a better job than a Barb considering that fact alone. Belial has a ranged physical attack - not magical.



    Secondly, all "good" barbs at the same level as a DD still cannot hold aggro. Even with: Genie Skills + Barb Skills + bramble, DD's can still pull aggro even on TT monsters.

    The only thing DD's cant pull aggro on is a Herc in HH. Overpowered pets dont have any damage reduction (go figure?).




    Archers with interval reductions are notorious for pulling aggro. Wizards with high hits do it just as often.




    Once you finally reach your near 10x's - or high 9x's you'll understand why its more convenient to have DD tank things. If you know your DD is going to pull aggro and have a boss AOE your clerics dead - it is more convenient to assume the DD is going to tank and stay safe.

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