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Kouankyuuka - Heavens Tear
Posts: 21 Arc User
Not naming anyone in particular, this post is to remind DD classes on their roles in Instances.
Throughout my Bh runs, I have seen Archers, Wizards, Venos dps-ing as soon as the BM or Barb hit the mob or bosses.
I believe DD classes exist to bring more DPS to the table, but it's also our responsibility to control our DPS. Whether the tank is higher in levels or lower in levels, we still need to control.
I have seen Archer spamming skills as soon as barb hits the target, resulting in the exploding reavers in BH 39 to run to the Archer (center of party) and exploded. Or he/ she pull a mob while everyone is standing still.
During Farren, she managed to pull aggro off a Barb by spamming all skills she has got (lower lvl than him/her).
There was a post on Aggro mechanics that teaches the DD classes on when should be the starting point for nuking and shooting. Unless the Barb or BM is dealing our much higher DPS, if not you are guaranteed to pull aggro if you start shooting without the Tanker grabbing a firm aggro.
Now the problem is these people usually do not listen or simply do not like other classes telling them what to do. Senior members in the run cordon their behaviour and asked me to 'chill out' when I highlighted the issues.
I have Archers telling me that it's the tank that is the problem. But what kinda dps would you expect from a tank lower in 5 levels than the DD?
Also, to take this into consideration, did the tanker have time to grab solid aggro in the first place?
I certainly do not wish to rely on higher levels to get my BH done most of the time. I would like to group up with the same level range as I see it as a form of team building and class learning.
But with failz DD who doesn't care or be bothered and just nuked whenever they want, it is certainly hair-raising to run with them.
Sorry for the rant
Throughout my Bh runs, I have seen Archers, Wizards, Venos dps-ing as soon as the BM or Barb hit the mob or bosses.
I believe DD classes exist to bring more DPS to the table, but it's also our responsibility to control our DPS. Whether the tank is higher in levels or lower in levels, we still need to control.
I have seen Archer spamming skills as soon as barb hits the target, resulting in the exploding reavers in BH 39 to run to the Archer (center of party) and exploded. Or he/ she pull a mob while everyone is standing still.
During Farren, she managed to pull aggro off a Barb by spamming all skills she has got (lower lvl than him/her).
There was a post on Aggro mechanics that teaches the DD classes on when should be the starting point for nuking and shooting. Unless the Barb or BM is dealing our much higher DPS, if not you are guaranteed to pull aggro if you start shooting without the Tanker grabbing a firm aggro.
Now the problem is these people usually do not listen or simply do not like other classes telling them what to do. Senior members in the run cordon their behaviour and asked me to 'chill out' when I highlighted the issues.
I have Archers telling me that it's the tank that is the problem. But what kinda dps would you expect from a tank lower in 5 levels than the DD?
Also, to take this into consideration, did the tanker have time to grab solid aggro in the first place?
I certainly do not wish to rely on higher levels to get my BH done most of the time. I would like to group up with the same level range as I see it as a form of team building and class learning.
But with failz DD who doesn't care or be bothered and just nuked whenever they want, it is certainly hair-raising to run with them.
Sorry for the rant
Post edited by Kouankyuuka - Heavens Tear on
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Comments
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thank you thank you THANK YOU. I consistantly have this problem. DDs are not tanks. Give the tank a minute or two to get solid aggro before you attack. PLEASE. For MY sanity and YOURS.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Your multi-tasking, Stephanie, is EPIC." --Aadi
--DISCLAIMER--"the precceding post is only the opinion of Morganna and is not placing blame or accusation on anyone or anything" THANK YOU Xeian
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nah best way to do it is Barb lures and you AoE everything. that way you get done fast and can farm TT more afterwards. This is a fact(this includes BH Warsong)0
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I like to take my DPS out and flash everybody with it... so what if the boss thinks my DPS is too irresistable? I mean, c'mon, my DPS is incredible... arguably not as large as souped up demon archers', but hey it's still large enough to incur partywipes right when we need 'em the most.
Naw I will continue to brandish my DPS in public, and you should too b:dirty0 -
Kannone - Heavens Tear wrote: »I like to take my DPS out and flash everybody with it... so what if the boss thinks my DPS is too irresistable? I mean, c'mon, my DPS is incredible... arguably not as large as souped up demon archers', but hey it's still large enough to incur partywipes right when we need 'em the most.
Naw I will continue to brandish my DPS in public, and you should too b:dirty
I think I will take it as a joke from you and flaunting the dps part. Besides, a wizard of your high statue (and maybe hailing from a reputable faction too) should know how to play your class well enough not to induce wipes.
Barring all necessary precautions made, sometimes things can go wrong. But I was wondering if withholding dps is not important, that why was there a guide in the first place?
Everyone could have just done what they wanted and be a failz (insert class here) whom people will be blacklisting for like... the rest of your class career? b:bye0 -
Kannone - Heavens Tear wrote: »I like to take my DPS out and flash everybody with it... so what if the boss thinks my DPS is too irresistable? I mean, c'mon, my DPS is incredible... arguably not as large as souped up demon archers', but hey it's still large enough to incur partywipes right when we need 'em the most.
Naw I will continue to brandish my DPS in public, and you should too b:dirty
you are preaching to the choir brother. keep up the good work.0 -
I is DD class rawr crush kill destroy. I'm electrifying
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Another wall of text completed.0 -
i'm a fake cleric... just a DD in disguise[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Originally posted by LShattered - HeavensTear
Ohhh...I am dumb b:shutup0 -
Morganna - Lost City wrote: »thank you thank you THANK YOU. I consistantly have this problem. DDs are not tanks. Give the tank a minute or two to get solid aggro before you attack. PLEASE. For MY sanity and YOURS.
Firstly go QQ in the lost city thread
Secondly DDs are ment to deal damage we shouldnt have to wait to unleash our awesome powers of pwn because the tank doesnt know how to use fleshream
Thirdly I have tanked the bosses in FB59 better than some barbs and also manta.. Why do people want a wizard to tank manta if we cant tank?DrMelvin: Level 90 Cleric > Retired
MrMelvin: Level 8X British Wizard > Active And Owning
b:victory
For Corn: One corn to rule them all and in the darkness cream them b:shocked (That should be your sig dude!)0 -
MrMelvin - Heavens Tear wrote: »Firstly go QQ in the lost city thread
Secondly DDs are ment to deal damage we shouldnt have to wait to unleash our awesome powers of pwn because the tank doesnt know how to use fleshream
Thirdly I have tanked the bosses in FB59 better than some barbs and also manta.. Why do people want a wizard to tank manta if we cant tank?
The thread is talking about tanking IN GENERAL. I mean, I can tank mantavip and FB59, but I know what context being a "tank" is being used in - a barb in TT, or FB99 etc~Almost original Tao member~
Former Tao Director
IGN: Fliiick
Cleric 100
Currently Radiance0 -
MsEvilness - Heavens Tear wrote: »i'm a fake cleric... just a DD in disguise
LoL i love to pull that one out of the bag when i hear "heal me"b:dirty0 -
She referred globally on tanking and DD restraining till tank gets firm grasp of agro.But feel free to steal agro anytime with Polearm b:chuckle.MrMelvin - Heavens Tear wrote: »Firstly go QQ in the lost city thread
Secondly DDs are ment to deal damage we shouldnt have to wait to unleash our awesome powers of pwn because the tank doesnt know how to use fleshream
Thirdly I have tanked the bosses in FB59 better than some barbs and also manta.. Why do people want a wizard to tank manta if we cant tank?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Because they are magic mobs, but that's about the only thing you can tank.MrMelvin - Heavens Tear wrote: »
Thirdly I have tanked the bosses in FB59 better than some barbs and also manta.. Why do people want a wizard to tank manta if we cant tank?
You can ofcourse proof otherwise by tanking an FB69 boss.....oops...right, you need a barb.0 -
Hey what the hell. Leaving clerics out? They are a DD class. BOOOYear's have gone by.
Got Rice?0 -
Only an halfwit DD will intentionally try to draw aggro from their tank, on something they know they can't handle even one hit from. I give the tank a good ten to fifteen second head start. After that, I use my DOT skills and weak skills. One or two macros of that and I switch to DOT's and hard skills. Two macros of that and the tank has aggro so well established, I would have to hit high-end crits three to four times, consecutively, to pull aggro.
I run with a veno and her herc for 90% of everything I do. When it comes to bosses, I try to let the herc tank it. The other 10% is with a barb that is over my level. If I left him alone for thirty seconds, I would never be able to pull aggro, no matter how high my hits went.
I can honestly say that, the few times I have ignored the tank's targets, it is because I think I can handle it. If you don't know your limits, you shouldn't be allowed to play past your first culti.Good post? d=(^_^)=b
Bad post? q=(-_-)=p
Troll post? t(^_^)t0 -
MrMelvin - Heavens Tear wrote: »Firstly go QQ in the lost city thread
Secondly DDs are ment to deal damage we shouldnt have to wait to unleash our awesome powers of pwn because the tank doesnt know how to use fleshream
Thirdly I have tanked the bosses in FB59 better than some barbs and also manta.. Why do people want a wizard to tank manta if we cant tank?
Shhiiiiiiii... I totally wanna party you... and watch you die when you pull aggro off my herc
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
|Payne-tsu 93 |Queen-tsu 89 |Shadow-tsu 69
Pantsu b:dirty0 -
I go all out, Triple spark->Undine->Poison->Frenzy->White Tea->Sutra->Sage Pyro->Sage Div. Pyro->Gush->Sage Pyro->Master Li's Technique->Sage Black Ice Dragon Strike at the beginning of every boss. If the tank can't keep aggro, then they can GTFO of my party.I like pie0
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Ty - Heavens Tear wrote: »I go all out, Triple spark->Undine->Poison->Frenzy->White Tea->Sutra->Sage Pyro->Sage Div. Pyro->Gush->Sage Pyro->Master Li's Technique->Sage Black Ice Dragon Strike at the beginning of every boss. If the tank can't keep aggro, then they can GTFO of my party.
b:laughb:laugh
Ty's DPS is bigger than mine : /0 -
Absolutely!!! I agree 100% Although low in level, I've been involved in three Dungeons. Every time we had a plan from the Group Leader. Here's the funny part..., three different ppl. Seems like more than one person(Mr.Melvin) knows how to do a dungeon. Anytime Kouankyuuka u want to plunge a dungeon, although low in level, I will do my best to help.0
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Very often I noticed what damn DDs do is try to steal agro on purpose... as if it's some kinda of achievement b:embarrass ...Especialy during about lvl 80sb:cute [SIGPIC]http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o160/ChisaiUsagi/wewewe.jpg[/SIGPIC] b:cute0
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If the DD goes out of his way to not listen and **** the squad, simply dont res him and move on without his failness. Accidents happen all the time, even with the most experienced players. However, some DDs are just plain stupid and should be treated as such.
Btw, DDs aside, there are more fail tank classes (veno, bm and barb) without any knowledge of how to play than DD classes stealing agro. Fail DDs usually lead to their own deaths. Fail tanks, well, those are most likely squadwipes, and there are hundreds out there. I've had a few FF runs on which we had to trade-up the tanks (skill-wise, not lv-wise) in order to finish simply because they couldnt understand simple instructions.
You should be worried about proper tanks, not messy DDs. Most 'worst case scenarios' can be easily controlled by clever tank(s) + cleric(s). If the tank(s) + cleric(s) in your squad are decent, you shouldnt have to worry about DDs.PWI:
"Free to play. Pay to win"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Absoluth - Heavens Tear wrote: »If the DD goes out of his way to not listen and **** the squad, simply dont res him and move on without his failness. Accidents happen all the time, even with the most experienced players. However, some DDs are just plain stupid and should be treated as such.
Btw, DDs aside, there are more fail tank classes (veno, bm and barb) without any knowledge of how to play than DD classes stealing agro. Fail DDs usually lead to their own deaths. Fail tanks, well, those are most likely squadwipes, and there are hundreds out there. I've had a few FF runs on which we had to trade-up the tanks (skill-wise, not lv-wise) in order to finish simply because they couldnt understand simple instructions.
You should be worried about proper tanks, not messy DDs. Most 'worst case scenarios' can be easily controlled by clever tank(s) + cleric(s). If the tank(s) + cleric(s) in your squad are decent, you shouldnt have to worry about DDs.
All I have to say to this post is b:dirty AMEN b:surrender always blamin us DDs for stealing the aggro. I would understand if it was ten levels over him then MAYBE the barb would be excused but 5? on a BH 39 you have got to be ****ing me. I have seen level 80 barbs hold better then 90 barbs cause they know how to ****in play. Blame your dam barb not your dds its not hard to keep aggro. If my golem can hold verus wizards trying to steal aggro a barb can hold verus everything.
And yes lots of DDs try to steal aggro from a barb if you can't tank verus us you don't need to be tanking. If you hold against our damage you will most certainly do. Why should someone hold back if the group should be able to hold it should something go wrong.
Thats the measure of a good sqaud is if I attempt a wipe and they stop the wipe guess what it keeps em on their toes they know how to work together and boom I don't have to worry about dying anymore so things die faster cause I am not gimping my damage. Safety first but without a little opposition its boring.
And to the OP you will find people at your level do not read guides on the forums just because its a good idea they just play the game. I myself didn't read a single guide till 75-80 because I decided it would be more fun to figure it out thru trial and error and it is.
So next time op the veno's job as well as the BMs is to prevent stuff like that they are equipped to do so and must grab mobs that the barb cannot its the reason you are so powerful to tank your own mobs. Just as well don't whine about a party wipe it happens all the time to even the best people. And like I said don't blame the DDs so much.
wow wall of text xD[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I have more experience in being a cleric than being a DD at the moment, whenever a DD stole aggro in any dungeon 59+ I was able to heal the tank (barb or veno) and always keep the DD alive.
If the clerics get stressed over switching a target to heal maybe they should roll something else and stop moaning. Your a cleric do you job dont just moan and spam 1 person since you are the healer you heal the people that needs healing whether its a tank or a DD or even someone using a zerk weapon...
Jesus christ how hard is it?DrMelvin: Level 90 Cleric > Retired
MrMelvin: Level 8X British Wizard > Active And Owning
b:victory
For Corn: One corn to rule them all and in the darkness cream them b:shocked (That should be your sig dude!)0 -
And then you have...
Well, imagine the boss dies and the tank laughs and says "33 hp". And imagine his health bar is sitting there with just a tiny bit of red, and that tiny bit of red is not growing?
But our cleric was much higher level than I was.
b:sad0 -
It usually depends on situation in which you fight.
If you fight vs one target(mostly its a boss or elite mob)it is DD's job is to ensure that target is damaged and taken down as fast as possible(not go trigger happy and stealing agro if you can't manage tanking since there is already a person with the given task).
If you fight multiply targets it is DD's task to ensure cleric(s) are well defended(since they are the core of any group)at any cost,and after threats are eliminated then you keep focusing on main target.
P.S This brief explanation was just an insight to any beginner who is participating the convo.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
MrMelvin - Heavens Tear wrote: »I have more experience in being a cleric than being a DD at the moment, whenever a DD stole aggro in any dungeon 59+ I was able to heal the tank (barb or veno) and always keep the DD alive.
If the clerics get stressed over switching a target to heal maybe they should roll something else and stop moaning. Your a cleric do you job dont just moan and spam 1 person since you are the healer you heal the people that needs healing whether its a tank or a DD or even someone using a zerk weapon...
Jesus christ how hard is it?
I would love to Pk you one day for this comment b:kissb:dirty0 -
Lypiphera - Heavens Tear wrote: »I is DD class rawr crush kill destroy. I'm electrifying
eek scary~MsEvilness - Heavens Tear wrote: »i'm a fake cleric... just a DD in disguise
Me am fake wizard....just a cleric in disguise. b:avoiddarthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
Hawk:Do this. closing thread
frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
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Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
58% chance to get tokens
41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Nelae - Heavens Tear wrote: »I would love to Pk you one day for this comment b:kiss
There will be a long queue for that, just like at those oracle bosses soo....stand in line ! b:chuckleb:bye0 -
Veluciel - Heavens Tear wrote: »There will be a long queue for that, just like at those oracle bosses soo....stand in line ! b:chuckleb:bye
I wanna be first b:sadb:dirty0 -
Nelae - Heavens Tear wrote: »I wanna be first b:sad
But..butbut....promise i can go afterwards..b:sad0 -
Veluciel - Heavens Tear wrote: »But..butbut....promise i can go afterwards..b:sad
It's a deal b:victoryb:cuteb:dirty0
![http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o160/ChisaiUsagi/wewewe.jpg[/SIGPIC]](http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o160/ChisaiUsagi/wewewe.jpg[/SIGPIC]){kind=link}
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