DEMON FTW!!!- prove me wrong

All I will say is that you have some of your descriptions wrong.....b:chuckle

Also, you are basing your responses on what YOU think is better for your play style, not on what is actually the skill additions. (More so because you view Cleric in a different light being LA)

But all in all...play how you want. Who cares what you choose?

You are the one that has to play the char.....b:bye

Ascii - Harshlands wrote: »

b:dirty my wife

b:cuteb:kiss

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

why? >.>.....

b:chuckle My same reaction!!

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

btw if you cant tell the big diff. of a 10% healing increase........ guess you never been in warsong situations...

your job is to save their life not their mp charm.

b:surrender Warsong....*shivers*

Does not help he has some of the descriptions wrong b:embarrass

This has been discussed time and again in multiple topics. Most everyone will tell you the same as Rose; the choice of Sage or Demon depends COMPLETELY on your choice of playstyle.

I, on the other hand, have back-to-back WQs to chew through and will now ramble on and on fairly incoherently for your viewing (dis)pleasure. b:laugh

And for the record...I pretty much thought the same way you do until a sparse few levels ago, when I finalized the decision to go Sage and started scooping up all the books I could find.

Black_lce - Heavens Tear wrote: »

First of all, demon spark just looks hell kool xP. not to mention u get a burger w/ wings to fly around u at first xD. i'm not to excited about the chi skill but i've gone this far w/out it so i don't realy need it.

While I'd tend to agree that Demon Sparks look totally badass...the demon fairy doesn't appeal. That aside...not factoring one of the 2 new skills you get right out of the gate into your choice is fairly silly. A free half-spark every minute is a half-spark you didn't have before. Over the course of a longer fight, this bonus is going to pay for a LOT of Eruptions/Purifies/Seals/Tempests. And the best part? It's FREE. Just press the button and ta-da!

As opposed to the Demon version, which only has use if you PvP/PK. I don't, so that's a waste right off the bat.

Black_lce - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Spark- sage is nice for the dmg reduction, but it only lasts 15 sec. i'd rather use plume shell>Gaurdians Light>plume shell>wings of protection>plume shell. i'd say it lasts a bit longer and takes about half the amount of chi. and most ppl spark for the dmg anyways, so the -chan from demon proves more valuable in DDing and healing.<Demon

True...but the damage reduction bonus isn't MEANT to be used as a straight up defensive tool. But even if one did intend to blow 3 sparks for that purpose, Celestial Eruption has one glaring strength in comparison; it uses no MP whatsoever. Just the sparks, saving you money in Charms and pots. Your combo would eat would burn through MP like wildfire used on a regular basis.

Not to mention that Guardian Light and Wings of Protection have a large cooldown, where as Celestial Eruption's frequency of use is limited only by the speed at which you can gather up the sparks for it. And seeing as Sages should be not only be building sparks at an faster rate, but saving some here and there...we should be able to pull it out quite often.

And since I keep yammering on about Chi anyways...let's talk about the spark investment into that chain too. Even taking into consideration that Demon Plume Shell only takes 15 chi to cast (according to Ecatomb...feel free to correct this), your still looking at 175 chi going into straight up defensive maneuvers. Now granted, there are Genie skills and Apoth pots to aid in the regeneration of Chi, and that's 'only' a little more than half the amount of sparks that you'd use trying to block with Celestial...but again you're looking at excessive amounts of resources being wasted in many scenarios. Any spark going into protection is spark NOT building towards further Eruptions. And less Eruptions generally amounts to less overall efficiency across the board.

And even if you want to ignore allllllllllllllllll of the monetary and otherwise conservatory benefits behind it, Celestial STILL allows the user to simultaneously boost their defensive capabilities while temporarily pumping their raw offensive and healing strength through the roof. Very handy when sparking in the middle of a PvP firefight is basically a great big neon sign marking you as an immediate threat to be neutralized ASAP, or so I would think.

...Though I won't deny that Demon Spark is a supremely powerful offensive tool. Even IF I have no experience using either one. XP

Black_lce - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Iornheart Blessing> sage is better healing, but it's just makeing an over-powered skill more over-powered. besides, i think tanks would much rather hp+mp regen from demon than 10% more healing that will make little difference once stacked.<Demon

More healing per spell not only means a Sage's healing per second can keep up with the damage output of stronger bosses, but it also means smaller stacks of Irons are necessary against those whom they could keep up with using a level 10 IH. Less time spent spam-healing a tank is more time freed up to do other things such as toss out seals and attacks, which in turn increases the party's overall damage output and speeds up kills. Sure, the tank might enjoy less MP pot/charm usage...but EVERYONE can appreciate a faster fight.

Black_lce - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Wellspring surge> sage and demon is pretty much "****". sage only gains about .3 chan reduction, which in nothing really since -chan is based off %. demon gives chi, but it's alot better then .3 sec less chan.<Demon

Neither side is '****'. That .3 seconds is huge; if it wasn't, neither Clerics nor Venos nor Wizards would put the effort they do into acquiring -Channeling gear. And when it's coming off of our best 'NEED HP NAO!!!' spell, that's big.

Black_lce - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Revive> demon hands down. yas sage gains 2 meters, but demon has HALF the chan time. nuf said.<Demon

*12 meters. At base, level 11 Revive has a range of 28 meters. Sage extends that to 40.

That being said, I won't disagree that the halved channeling is amazing, and I can't deny that it would be nice to have if someone drops in the middle of a boss.

But really...who looks at stuff like that? It's all about the 0% experience loss. That's all that Revive is good for, right!? <

---

Sarcasm, for those that were wondering...

Black_lce - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Purify> sage does cast faster and more often, but u can't cast it when ur outa chi, also i've never cast'd it before the cool down was done.<Demon

Clerics should be competent in managing their Chi anyways, so if a SAGE runs out it's not a matter of skills...it's inexperience or incompetence on the part of the Cleric. And I don't know about other Clerics...but there are plenty of times I wish I could spam Purify faster.

And of course you've never cast Purify before the cooldown ended...you're not allowed to. Duh. =P

Black_lce - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Chromatic healing beam> demon wins here. ur squad should be in 20 meters anyways so 600 more healing is better.<Demon

Should be? Probably. Will be always? Not likely. The biggest thing that makes Chromatic Healing Beam a 'necessity' is that it's our only AoE heal aside from Regeneration Aura. It's effectiveness is thereby measured moreso by ones ability to heal as many targets as possible with it per cast.

Make no mistake...that extra 5 meters is an equally massive boost, effectively bring it's maximum radius to 26 meters...only .5 meters shy of a level 10 Ironheart's maximum range of 26.5. With the slightest bit of repositioning, you can now heal both the vanguard and the back line with one cast, without having to spend the added seconds casting Ironheart or Wellspring on individuals. Which means more time to focus on the tank, or possibly squeeze off more shots at the boss.

Black_lce - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Stream of Rejuvination> i perfer this to sage vangaurd as it heals and gives 100% pdeff. and sage just gives chi. <Demon

There's no doubt that Demon Stream of Rejuvenation is one of the strongest stand-alone skills in the game. On paper, it's an AMAZING emergency heal that more often than not should easily bring an ailing tank right back into the game. And I bet it's everything and more than that in practice.

...That being said, Stream is just that. A back-up tool to be used when Ironhearts just don't cut it. Between a longer cast and a MASSIVE MP cost (2-3 is a charm tick, and 8-9 is almost guaranteed to drain any Cleric's MP bar in a blink without powders), it's not practical to use on a regular basis. As such, I'd rather have skills that actively promote the lessened use of this skill whenever possible.

Also, as stated before, the Demon add-on makes this a great stand-alone skill. However, the increased Chi production on the Sage side promotes a greater number of options, and increases Clerical efficiency across the board (more ammo for seals, shields, sparks, nukes, etc etc) by further lessening our dependence on Apoth pots, Genie Skills and the occasional Lending Hand when we find reason to start burning through Chi vigorously.

Black_lce - Heavens Tear wrote: »

BUFFS>
Vangaurd spirit> sage is better here, but demon stream does the job better imo. <Sage

It would help if you specified what 'job' you think it does better. Assuming you mean the simple act of boosting the target's Physical Defense by 100% however, Vanguard wins hands down in both speed (will ALWAYS be 1-2 seconds faster) and cost (265 vs. 1000...you do the math), making it infinitely more useful in most common 'OSHI-' situations.

Better still, the speed of cast makes it slipping it into a stack of Irons a breeze, promoting even higher tanking capability in conjunction with the increased healing strength of Sage Ironheart.

Oh...and it's available at 89, so you can potentially use it right out of the heavenly gate. Very appealing to those of us that DON'T want to wait until 99 for our smexy defense boost.

Black_lce - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Magic Shell> sage wins here too, but i can demon spark for 25% chan. or ask the sage cleric to cast this on me xP. <Sage

Ahhhhhh...but Demon Spark requires 3 sparks and takes about 1-1.5 seconds longer to be able to move again. Overall, comparing it's efficiency in producing faster channeling to this is silly...Sages will consistantly have faster channeling than a Demon due to the ability to spam the hell out of this spell (unless, as you said, said Sage uses it on someone else).

Black_lce - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Celestial Gaurdian's Seal> demon wins, 900 mp regen or or sages half **** ih xP<Demon

True, Demon version wins hands down. But as a consolation prize...a Sage just saved 1mil spirit and a boatload of coin by NOT having to buy this skill. XD

Black_lce - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Spirit's Gift> demon's prize skill lol, +150% dmg. sage is the same as demon CGS <Demon

In the end, the skill made me drool. But the MP regen add on Sage Spirit's Gift is still sexeh. And with the added chi gain, extended Spark Eruption chains are a viable concept. And the -Channeling off of Magic Shell makes a viable option for increasing damage output as well, for about half the cost. Is it as strong in terms of overall effect? Totally depends on the target. Could be...time will tell.

Black_lce - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Metal Mastery> i like them both, but demon hlps me more as im LA and the extra 5% dmg would be little. <Demon

This skill probably best represents the difference between Sage and Demon; balanced consistency vs. spike potential. I like consistency, and as stated before I'm not a big PvP/PK enthusiast (thus decreasing my overall reliance on that potential to spike), so that guaranteed 500-1k extra damage per average Metal hit is very appealing.

Black_lce - Heavens Tear wrote: »

ATTACKS>

Plume shot> this is a toss up for me, more dmg or faster use =/ <Either

At that point, the question becomes a question of MP conservation. Agreed, overall higher DPS is awesome, but I'm whiny and hate having to unload more hits than I think are necessary. I'll take the slower overall kill speed if it means conserving MP for other things. XD

Black_lce - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Plume shell> good either way, im LA so the 5% more reduction doesn't matter.<Either

Plume Shell is an attack? I must be doing something wrong... b:shocked

I tease...I tease. But in all seriousness, being an Arcane that extra reduction is VERY appealing to me. And no matter who, extra reductions should matter to everyone. Having to worry less about overall personal damage control means you can focus more on other tasks...like blowing @#$% up. >=D

Black_lce - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Razor Feathors> i use it ALOT, and the 2 sec slower cooldown in alot better than more range. <Demon

I use it a lot too. Particularly during an AoE grind. And nothing's more annoying than having to take the time to reposition and switch targets to make sure you're getting them all. Increased Area of Effect will be lovely. *Drools*

Black_lce - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Great Cyclone> Demon OFC, lol at sage add. <Demon

Won't disagree that the extra damage is nice. But for those times when it alone isn't enough to promote the killing of things in less hits, it's nice when the additional effect is enough to promote increased survivability (slower mobs that take longer to reach you are mobs that aren't chewing on you).

Black_lce - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Thunderball> i perfer the quicker dmg over more dmg spread out over a long time period.<Demon

The only situations I'd be inclined to consider using this are prolonged fights. So the speed at which DoT damage happens is a non-issue to me. I'd rather take the increased damage, if any at all.

Black_lce - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Siren's Kiss> i rarely use it, so not important

I use it frequently, both in AoEing alone and with others, and as an escape tool when mobs close in (potential for mass freeze coupled with Holy Path or speed boosting Apoths is awesome).

Adding a chance to do that without eating up a spark is nice. Especially when one doesn't use it frequently enough to warrant the need for reduced cooldown.

Black_lce - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Weild Thunder> explain's itself <Demon

Awesome skill on the Demon side of things if you're focusing on offense. But someone like me, who tries to balance both offense and support, that limited window of increased damage output isn't as useful as refilling about half a spark every other shot. If I wanted such focus on damage output, I'd have rolled Wizard. XP

Black_lce - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Tempest> the freeze is useful in pvp, but les chi cost is ok too<Either

I was initially under the impression that that freeze would be amazing in PvE too. But further potential chi conservation means I can spam more big hits more often.

...That's my excuse and I'm stickin' to it. X_X

Black_lce - Heavens Tear wrote: »

DEBUFFS
Elemental Seal>doesn't really matter, they both do the same thing<Either

Dimentional Seal>Same as elemental seal<Either[/COLOR]

Sage version last 5 seconds longer though, meaning longer sessions of increased damage even when we can't take the time to spam them as often.

IMHO the 5 seconds less time under debuffs that the Demon version grants is fairly useless, since these are generally used when someone else is taking the brunt of the hits or when the Cleric is confident that they can take the increased damage themselves. Or when all else fails...just Purify it away, though that's a waste of time and chi more often than not outside of PvP/PK.

Black_lce - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Silent Seal> no dmg reduction<Demon

In PvP/PK, making the most of those limited time frames is essential.

In any other case, the reduction is little more than an annoyance. What's infinitely more annoying is when the target starts to move again too soon. Longer potential duration please.

Black_lce - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Chromatic Seal> no speed reduction<Demon

Running is for pansies! D=<

...Kind of kidding. But mostly not. I'm generally not using this to run away, more than I am to bring control back to a situation by taking a target out of active combat. Being able to make that happen for longer more often makes it easier to do this more consistantly.

Black_lce - Heavens Tear wrote: »

wats ur thoughts on the topic?

*Points back to the cascading wall o' text*

If that's to much...then here's the abridged version. Ahem...

I think Sage Clerics are better than Demon Clerics because our earlier skills are better than your later skills and I know this because I'm a level 85 Cleric and despite us being the same level as I type this I clearly know better than you and it shows because I took the time to shovel lots and lots of words and quotes into this post and pulled potential scenarios out of my **** stating them as fact so nyah~! b:victory

DISCLAIMER: This post may or may not contain amounts of BS far and beyond the normal recommended daily dosage. Please be advised that this poster will not be held accountable for any lost or missing brain cells or any accidents, incidents or injuries that may occur due to excessive amounts of face-palming, face-rolling, head-desking and/or wall-banging.

Thank you for your time and have a nice day!

Black_lce - Heavens Tear wrote: »

these r my reasons for going demon. prove me wrong and try to convince me to go sage, or tell me u agree/have a better reason for me to go demon.

First of all, demon spark just looks hell kool xP. not to mention u get a burger w/ wings to fly around u at first xD. i'm not to excited about the chi skill but i've gone this far w/out it so i don't realy need it.

Spark- sage is nice for the dmg reduction, but it only lasts 15 sec. i'd rather use plume shell>Gaurdians Light>plume shell>wings of protection>plume shell. i'd say it lasts a bit longer and takes about half the amount of chi. and most ppl spark for the dmg anyways, so the -chan from demon proves more valuable in DDing and healing.<Demon


HEALS>
Blessing of the Purehearted> it is a **** skill and will always be at lvl 1 for chi building b:bye

Iornheart Blessing> sage is better healing, but it's just makeing an over-powered skill more over-powered. besides, i think tanks would much rather hp+mp regen from demon than 10% more healing that will make little difference once stacked.<Demon

Wellspring surge> sage and demon is pretty much "****". sage only gains about .3 chan reduction, which in nothing really since -chan is based off %. demon gives chi, but it's alot better then .3 sec less chan.<Demon
Revive> demon hands down. yas sage gains 2 meters, but demon has HALF the chan time. nuf said.<Demon

Purify> sage does cast faster and more often, but u can't cast it when ur outa chi, also i've never cast'd it before the cool down was done.<Demon

Chromatic healing beam> demon wins here. ur squad should be in 20 meters anyways so 600 more healing is better.<Demon

Stream of Rejuvination> i perfer this to sage vangaurd as it heals and gives 100% pdeff. and sage just gives chi. <Demon


BUFFS>
Vangaurd spirit> sage is better here, but demon stream does the job better imo. <Sage

Magic Shell> sage wins here too, but i can demon spark for 25% chan. or ask the sage cleric to cast this on me xP. <Sage

Celestial Gaurdian's Seal> demon wins, 900 mp regen or or sages half **** ih xP<Demon

Spirit's Gift> demon's prize skill lol, +150% dmg. sage is the same as demon CGS <Demon

Metal Mastery> i like them both, but demon hlps me more as im LA and the extra 5% dmg would be little. <Demon



ATTACKS>

Plume shot> this is a toss up for me, more dmg or faster use =/ <Either

Plume shell> good either way, im LA so the 5% more reduction doesn't matter.<Either

Razor Feathors> i use it ALOT, and the 2 sec slower cooldown in alot better than more range. <Demon

Great Cyclone> Demon OFC, lol at sage add. <Demon

Thunderball> i perfer the quicker dmg over more dmg spread out over a long time period.<Demon

Siren's Kiss> i rarely use it, so not important

Weild Thunder> explain's itself <Demon

Tempest> the freeze is useful in pvp, but les chi cost is ok too<Either


DEBUFFS

Elemental Seal>doesn't really matter, they both do the same thing<Either

Dimentional Seal>Same as elemental seal<Either

Silent Seal> no dmg reduction<Demon

Chromatic Seal> no speed reduction<Demon

wats ur thoughts on the topic?

Its' very obvious you are biased toward demon and it's not even worth trying to convince you otherwise. Play the way you like.

Personally, I'm going sage. Stronger plume, stronger heals (no such thing as an overpowered heal, especially one that takes a while to start stacking up), stronger debuffs, longer lasting debuffs. There are some things I find better with demon, like it's spark, but those few things I find demon to be better at doesn't justify choosing that over sage when sage has far more of what I find useful for a cleric when doing things in every situation.

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

b:chuckle My same reaction!!

Why would you want us to prove you wrong after all that hard work and after setting yourself on Demon?

Play how you want, and suffer any possible side effects. b:bye

Lol thanks XxLady_XelxX, you pretty much pointed out all the things I questioned about sage vs demon and now I'm positive I'll go sage.

XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver wrote: »

This has been discussed time and again in multiple topics. Most everyone will tell you the same as Rose; the choice of Sage or Demon depends COMPLETELY on your choice of playstyle.

I, on the other hand, have back-to-back WQs to chew through and will now ramble on and on fairly incoherently for your viewing (dis)pleasure. b:laugh

And for the record...I pretty much thought the same way you do until a sparse few levels ago, when I finalized the decision to go Sage and started scooping up all the books I could find.



While I'd tend to agree that Demon Sparks look totally badass...the demon fairy doesn't appeal. That aside...not factoring one of the 2 new skills you get right out of the gate into your choice is fairly silly. A free half-spark every minute is a half-spark you didn't have before. Over the course of a longer fight, this bonus is going to pay for a LOT of Eruptions/Purifies/Seals/Tempests. And the best part? It's FREE. Just press the button and ta-da!

As opposed to the Demon version, which only has use if you PvP/PK. I don't, so that's a waste right off the bat.



True...but the damage reduction bonus isn't MEANT to be used as a straight up defensive tool. But even if one did intend to blow 3 sparks for that purpose, Celestial Eruption has one glaring strength in comparison; it uses no MP whatsoever. Just the sparks, saving you money in Charms and pots. Your combo would eat would burn through MP like wildfire used on a regular basis.

Not to mention that Guardian Light and Wings of Protection have a large cooldown, where as Celestial Eruption's frequency of use is limited only by the speed at which you can gather up the sparks for it. And seeing as Sages should be not only be building sparks at an faster rate, but saving some here and there...we should be able to pull it out quite often.

And since I keep yammering on about Chi anyways...let's talk about the spark investment into that chain too. Even taking into consideration that Demon Plume Shell only takes 15 chi to cast (according to Ecatomb...feel free to correct this), your still looking at 175 chi going into straight up defensive maneuvers. Now granted, there are Genie skills and Apoth pots to aid in the regeneration of Chi, and that's 'only' a little more than half the amount of sparks that you'd use trying to block with Celestial...but again you're looking at excessive amounts of resources being wasted in many scenarios. Any spark going into protection is spark NOT building towards further Eruptions. And less Eruptions generally amounts to less overall efficiency across the board.

And even if you want to ignore allllllllllllllllll of the monetary and otherwise conservatory benefits behind it, Celestial STILL allows the user to simultaneously boost their defensive capabilities while temporarily pumping their raw offensive and healing strength through the roof. Very handy when sparking in the middle of a PvP firefight is basically a great big neon sign marking you as an immediate threat to be neutralized ASAP, or so I would think.

...Though I won't deny that Demon Spark is a supremely powerful offensive tool. Even IF I have no experience using either one. XP



More healing per spell not only means a Sage's healing per second can keep up with the damage output of stronger bosses, but it also means smaller stacks of Irons are necessary against those whom they could keep up with using a level 10 IH. Less time spent spam-healing a tank is more time freed up to do other things such as toss out seals and attacks, which in turn increases the party's overall damage output and speeds up kills. Sure, the tank might enjoy less MP pot/charm usage...but EVERYONE can appreciate a faster fight.



Neither side is '****'. That .3 seconds is huge; if it wasn't, neither Clerics nor Venos nor Wizards would put the effort they do into acquiring -Channeling gear. And when it's coming off of our best 'NEED HP NAO!!!' spell, that's big.



*12 meters. At base, level 11 Revive has a range of 28 meters. Sage extends that to 40.

That being said, I won't disagree that the halved channeling is amazing, and I can't deny that it would be nice to have if someone drops in the middle of a boss.

But really...who looks at stuff like that? It's all about the 0% experience loss. That's all that Revive is good for, right!? <

---

Sarcasm, for those that were wondering...



Clerics should be competent in managing their Chi anyways, so if a SAGE runs out it's not a matter of skills...it's inexperience or incompetence on the part of the Cleric. And I don't know about other Clerics...but there are plenty of times I wish I could spam Purify faster.

And of course you've never cast Purify before the cooldown ended...you're not allowed to. Duh. =P



Should be? Probably. Will be always? Not likely. The biggest thing that makes Chromatic Healing Beam a 'necessity' is that it's our only AoE heal aside from Regeneration Aura. It's effectiveness is thereby measured moreso by ones ability to heal as many targets as possible with it per cast.

Make no mistake...that extra 5 meters is an equally massive boost, effectively bring it's maximum radius to 26 meters...only .5 meters shy of a level 10 Ironheart's maximum range of 26.5. With the slightest bit of repositioning, you can now heal both the vanguard and the back line with one cast, without having to spend the added seconds casting Ironheart or Wellspring on individuals. Which means more time to focus on the tank, or possibly squeeze off more shots at the boss.



There's no doubt that Demon Stream of Rejuvenation is one of the strongest stand-alone skills in the game. On paper, it's an AMAZING emergency heal that more often than not should easily bring an ailing tank right back into the game. And I bet it's everything and more than that in practice.

...That being said, Stream is just that. A back-up tool to be used when Ironhearts just don't cut it. Between a longer cast and a MASSIVE MP cost (2-3 is a charm tick, and 8-9 is almost guaranteed to drain any Cleric's MP bar in a blink without powders), it's not practical to use on a regular basis. As such, I'd rather have skills that actively promote the lessened use of this skill whenever possible.

Also, as stated before, the Demon add-on makes this a great stand-alone skill. However, the increased Chi production on the Sage side promotes a greater number of options, and increases Clerical efficiency across the board (more ammo for seals, shields, sparks, nukes, etc etc) by further lessening our dependence on Apoth pots, Genie Skills and the occasional Lending Hand when we find reason to start burning through Chi vigorously.



It would help if you specified what 'job' you think it does better. Assuming you mean the simple act of boosting the target's Physical Defense by 100% however, Vanguard wins hands down in both speed (will ALWAYS be 1-2 seconds faster) and cost (265 vs. 1000...you do the math), making it infinitely more useful in most common 'OSHI-' situations.

Better still, the speed of cast makes it slipping it into a stack of Irons a breeze, promoting even higher tanking capability in conjunction with the increased healing strength of Sage Ironheart.

Oh...and it's available at 89, so you can potentially use it right out of the heavenly gate. Very appealing to those of us that DON'T want to wait until 99 for our smexy defense boost.



Ahhhhhh...but Demon Spark requires 3 sparks and takes about 1-1.5 seconds longer to be able to move again. Overall, comparing it's efficiency in producing faster channeling to this is silly...Sages will consistantly have faster channeling than a Demon due to the ability to spam the hell out of this spell (unless, as you said, said Sage uses it on someone else).



True, Demon version wins hands down. But as a consolation prize...a Sage just saved 1mil spirit and a boatload of coin by NOT having to buy this skill. XD



In the end, the skill made me drool. But the MP regen add on Sage Spirit's Gift is still sexeh. And with the added chi gain, extended Spark Eruption chains are a viable concept. And the -Channeling off of Magic Shell makes a viable option for increasing damage output as well, for about half the cost. Is it as strong in terms of overall effect? Totally depends on the target. Could be...time will tell.



This skill probably best represents the difference between Sage and Demon; balanced consistency vs. spike potential. I like consistency, and as stated before I'm not a big PvP/PK enthusiast (thus decreasing my overall reliance on that potential to spike), so that guaranteed 500-1k extra damage per average Metal hit is very appealing.



At that point, the question becomes a question of MP conservation. Agreed, overall higher DPS is awesome, but I'm whiny and hate having to unload more hits than I think are necessary. I'll take the slower overall kill speed if it means conserving MP for other things. XD



Plume Shell is an attack? I must be doing something wrong... b:shocked

I tease...I tease. But in all seriousness, being an Arcane that extra reduction is VERY appealing to me. And no matter who, extra reductions should matter to everyone. Having to worry less about overall personal damage control means you can focus more on other tasks...like blowing @#$% up. >=D



I use it a lot too. Particularly during an AoE grind. And nothing's more annoying than having to take the time to reposition and switch targets to make sure you're getting them all. Increased Area of Effect will be lovely. *Drools*



Won't disagree that the extra damage is nice. But for those times when it alone isn't enough to promote the killing of things in less hits, it's nice when the additional effect is enough to promote increased survivability (slower mobs that take longer to reach you are mobs that aren't chewing on you).



The only situations I'd be inclined to consider using this are prolonged fights. So the speed at which DoT damage happens is a non-issue to me. I'd rather take the increased damage, if any at all.



I use it frequently, both in AoEing alone and with others, and as an escape tool when mobs close in (potential for mass freeze coupled with Holy Path or speed boosting Apoths is awesome).

Adding a chance to do that without eating up a spark is nice. Especially when one doesn't use it frequently enough to warrant the need for reduced cooldown.



Awesome skill on the Demon side of things if you're focusing on offense. But someone like me, who tries to balance both offense and support, that limited window of increased damage output isn't as useful as refilling about half a spark every other shot. If I wanted such focus on damage output, I'd have rolled Wizard. XP



I was initially under the impression that that freeze would be amazing in PvE too. But further potential chi conservation means I can spam more big hits more often.

...That's my excuse and I'm stickin' to it. X_X



Sage version last 5 seconds longer though, meaning longer sessions of increased damage even when we can't take the time to spam them as often.

IMHO the 5 seconds less time under debuffs that the Demon version grants is fairly useless, since these are generally used when someone else is taking the brunt of the hits or when the Cleric is confident that they can take the increased damage themselves. Or when all else fails...just Purify it away, though that's a waste of time and chi more often than not outside of PvP/PK.



In PvP/PK, making the most of those limited time frames is essential.

In any other case, the reduction is little more than an annoyance. What's infinitely more annoying is when the target starts to move again too soon. Longer potential duration please.



Running is for pansies! D=<

...Kind of kidding. But mostly not. I'm generally not using this to run away, more than I am to bring control back to a situation by taking a target out of active combat. Being able to make that happen for longer more often makes it easier to do this more consistantly.



*Points back to the cascading wall o' text*

If that's to much...then here's the abridged version. Ahem...

I think Sage Clerics are better than Demon Clerics because our earlier skills are better than your later skills and I know this because I'm a level 85 Cleric and despite us being the same level as I type this I clearly know better than you and it shows because I took the time to shovel lots and lots of words and quotes into this post and pulled potential scenarios out of my **** stating them as fact so nyah~! b:victory

DISCLAIMER: This post may or may not contain amounts of BS far and beyond the normal recommended daily dosage. Please be advised that this poster will not be held accountable for any lost or missing brain cells or any accidents, incidents or injuries that may occur due to excessive amounts of face-palming, face-rolling, head-desking and/or wall-banging.

Thank you for your time and have a nice day!

so pretty much... go sage cause it will save you money? b:puzzled

-.- i hate this forum date lol is this a necro?

how is ti on the forum?

month day year? o.o

For clerics, demon and sage is pretty much a tossup, they both have some potentially amazing skills and anyone who says otherwise is just biased.
All you have too look at is the sages Chi skill to know they are going to be very versatile, not only in pk but also in PVE. an extra spark a minute would save me alot of pots and add a lot of heal/damage output in PVE.
besides that think about using sage magic shell, sage spark, and in conjunction with the metal mastery? b:dirty
that being said, I'm pretty sure I'm going Demon, although I'm probably going to regret all the extra expense later. Whichever path i choose, i doubt I'll look back once I pick.

For everyone who bases their decision on the fairy:

The red hamburger and the red insectoid larvae is temporary...more temporary for some than it is for others...but the demon fairy turns purple in the end, and it's anything but a hamburger.
Have you seen the lvl 100 demon fairy? think bat veno with bat wings, kind of cute but mostly feisty, in a long purple dress with the cleavage exposed. just screams dark mistress, if you're into that at all.

The lvl 99 sage fairy...think Deceptistar in a yellow dress, that's right, it looks exactly like her, same hair too b:chuckle

the lvl 100 sage fairy has huge ears and gossamer wings. she has a cuter dress but smaller ****. if you look very closely you can make out legs under the bell shaped skirt

(but the legs are so semitransparent that she ends up looking more like a jelly fish b:shutup)

that's that for how the fairies look.

Alyyy - Sanctuary wrote: »

-.- i hate this forum date lol is this a necro?

how is ti on the forum?

month day year? o.o

Don't worry you will get there just takes time.;)

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

For everyone who bases their decision on the fairy:

The red hamburger and the red insectoid larvae is temporary...more temporary for some than it is for others...but the demon fairy turns purple in the end, and it's anything but a hamburger.
Have you seen the lvl 100 demon fairy? think bat veno with bat wings, kind of cute but mostly feisty, in a long purple dress with the cleavage exposed. just screams dark mistress, if you're into that at all.

The lvl 99 sage fairy...think Deceptistar in a yellow dress, that's right, it looks exactly like her, same hair too b:chuckle

the lvl 100 sage fairy has huge ears and gossamer wings. she has a cuter dress but smaller ****. if you look very closely you can make out legs under the bell shaped skirt

(but the legs are so semitransparent that she ends up looking more like a jelly fish b:shutup)

that's that for how the fairies look.

b:chuckle The Sage lvl 100 fairy looks like a lightbulb with wings to me. Without a doubt, the lvl 100 Demon fairy looks amazing, it dosen't even look that evil anymore since it's violet.