Venomancer Stats

Moved this to the correct sectionb:victory

hmm look at the WIKI it haves alot of usefull info b:victory

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

If you want to wear light armor, do 3 magic, 1 dex, 1 str every level
If you want arcane, on even levels do 4 mag 1 str, and on odd levels do 4 mag 1 vit.

:B

Arcane doesn't need to waste on vit.

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

this poster generally believes his opinion is the only opinion worth hearing.

vit arcane is quite possibly the best of all viable veno builds, theres a whole thread discussing their power in an endgame scenario compared to the others.

second best, id say HA/AA...

just because you dont like vit, doesnt mean others follow suit.

By your alt that was banned? Thanks to tptb for recycling this troll.

tweakz you cant say putting vit when your arcane is a waste just because you don't like it. That's your opinion, and not a rule.

Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The problem with labeling any specific build as best, is that not everyone does the same thing with their characters, even endgame where the options are presumably less (I disagree with that entirely, and would say the options in endgame are more). If someone has no interest in pvp a vit arcane build isn't all that great. You don't need as many hp as it gives you and you're giving yourself mediocre damage output.

that's not true, in end game pvp and pve, you need the best balance of HP/defense you can get. Pdef sharded vit arcane can have 7-9k hp, and 4-6k pdef depending on refines and juggled gear selection, while still managing to get good m.atk.

refer to that 'veno builds' thread to see some really end game viable builds. see how much better than LA, and how well rounded they are for pvp/pve o_o. it gets the best of both realms when ran as a sage.

one of mine even went as far as having a 8.6-9.3k m.atk range, which isnt half bad at all.

Focusing anymore stats into survival than is necessary to survive is simply reducing your damage output for no return.

this is like saying HA/AA build sucks.

I haven't run into a situation yet where 5k unbuffed isn't sufficient to survive. 5k doesn't require a vit arcane build.

im guessing your hp is around 4.4~4.8k ish ? unless youre super rich and im talking out my **** lol. i like having 6k+ hp and more pdef than 5k unbuffed, i find that better, and thats my perogative.

In pvp the amount of defense needed is significantly different from pve. That's why I don't like to pvp, in order to make my character good at it, I would have to be less than 100% in any other situation.

not everyone loves their blue name, hence why end game, vit arcane is the premier choice. very well rounded in all aspects of the class, theres hardly a flaw with the build.

U need little bit vit, little bit str, and little bit dex, allmoust all thems use on mag b:laughb:pleased

If you're dead you're zero damage. Survival is pretty much binary though, either you can or can't survive. Once you can survive, you can max damage. If you can't survive you do wind up restraining yourself. Very little pve wise requires being a vit (or light, or heavy) build to meet those minimums for survival at a current level. Jewelscalen and Ancient Evil are the only two that come to mind actually, and AE can be survived at level if you actually improve your gear. Hardly enough content to justify 50-100 stat points.

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

that didnt address my point whatsoever. if the pure mag cant all out nuke with all kinds of m.atk and channel, whats the point? with those same refines, my survivability is still going to be way higher than yours.

Then get a better Barbarian? Seriously, we have the weakest nukes of any of the three classes with nukes. If we pull aggro the Barb is slacking. If it's a herc tanking, well... sucks for you. Go heavy and take the hits yourself in that case, it's more effective than having to hold back. Or just kill the mob before it can touch you. Either way works.

AE isnt much of a threat (random aggro here or there easily dodged by spark) and a low def AA can easily bring jewel to the ground and survive its spike with a charm.

Ya, I've never managed to spark it, nuke keys tend to cast one additional time if I'm holding a button down. It's easier to just take the hit and not die as long as you can survive. You should have a method of healing yourself anyways so it's not like the damage matters. Tree is an 86.4% heal, Jiazozi is a pretty good sized heal, MB is a 50% heal, transfusion is there though that costs you spark damage. While on the subject of sparks, saving sparks to invul is costing your squad damage, that makes no sense to me.

Also, hp charms are a waste of money. Other than for barbs they're nothing but a PvP tool.

with this build, soloing things like 1-3 soul banisher or FB99's torturess venerator, both whom have disgusting melee AOEs, fairly simple. like said, theres not much of a gap in the m.atk, and everything else is better stat wise, it makes me wonder why people go pure mag at all.

Never tried soloing an fb99 or a 1-3 soul banisher so I can't say how easy/hard that is for me right now. All I can say is neither gives me trouble in a squad but that's not saying much. Personally, outside of PvP I don't see why anyone wouldn't go for a build that doesn't maximize their damage output regardless of armor type. Even a 1% difference is gimping yourself 1% for a benefit that you're not even taking advantage of if you're already capable of surviving.

pre phoenix in TW, veno = support
now and forever, veno = support

go sage, and 'support,' youre not a canon for nuking.
if you think otherwise, delete, and reroll a wizard.

TW=PvP, I really couldn't care less about PvP. If you're using the support argument though. Support is a character that primarily helps other characters do their jobs. We certainly have some support abilities but if that's your reasoning, I don't see why you would state sage. Demon has a wood resist debuff (not that it does much for non venos), a better physical debuff, can move faster (helpful for lures), stronger bramble, can slow mobs more, purge better, and amp better. Support wise, demon wins hands down it's not even close.

Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Also, hp charms are a waste of money. Other than for barbs they're nothing but a PvP tool.

see? thats why every stupid veno guide in this forum say... skip soulbanisher skip drum skip whatever. most venos never invest in their armor or vit or a damn charm... like that higher pet heal gonna speed up killing the other bosses lol

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

thats all biased lol.

sage fox has its benefits for better survivability on those aoe bosses/PVP (i dont care if you dont like pvp, its still being factored in)

amp? the math has been done, the difference is so insignificant, it couldnt even matter which you were

sage's ironwood > demon. the skill is so broken and almost never goes off (much like my class's demon thundershock and its chance to seal) 40% of continous debuff for 20s > rare chance for 0 def to go off.

aoe purge > lower cool down purge in TW/rebirth

slow more? only slow effects i see on venos are A. on a useless move and B. a move you wouldnt really use otherwise. (really, would you sit and befuddle every mob, when wizards can do that better?)

on the stun we actually DO use often, longer stun duration has its perks in PVP and pve

dont even get me started on sage soul degeneration.

sage leech/sprint offer more into that survivability aspect for your party. ridding of debuffs/being able to steal hp all the time are sexy!

wood mastery: 5% more dmg > crit.

I'm not sure how you could tell me I'm being biased, I went sage. Your own description of a veno though is one of support. I compared the skills from that vantage point. Sage isn't for support for veno's.

Your sage fox comparison is using PvP, if you want to pvp that's fine I'm not saying you shouldn't, but my original point to you was saying one specific build is the best regardless of playstyle was wrong. It's the best for the playstyle you're referring to (likely your own), but that doesn't mean everyone is going to participate in TW's, or PvP, or FB99's, or Frost, or anything else. Basically, for the comparison that was being made before, your explanation says sage fox does nothing.

25% for 26 of every 31.5 seconds=21.46% boost
30% for 20 of every 31.5 seconds=19.05% boost.

If you include one extreme poison per amp cycle (sustainable for the majority of genies, assuming it lasts 10 seconds) the numbers change to
50% for 10 of every 31.5 seconds+25% for 16 of every 31.5 seconds=28.57%
56% for 10 of every 31.5 seconds+30% for 10 of every 31.5 seconds=27.30%

Demon has a better amp by .9976% more damage for the squad. Effectively, 1% more squad damage dealt.

Sage IW is matched/outdone by Clerics and Barbarians, demon isn't. The average on demon is lower but the potential return is far greater as long as the squad works together. There's also the multiplicative effect of IW/Amp/Poison which is far more powerful on demon than on sage. There's also nothing broken about it, a 20% proc chance means it's going to fire about 1.15 times a minute (about 10 seconds a minute under a break). Sage is certainly more consistent, but if your squad is working together sage doesn't actually bring a benefit to the squads damage output.

I can buy the argument of an ae purge in rebirth being useful, but a faster cooldown purge is more useful against any boss that buffs itself. At best the two are equal.

Why wouldn't you slow? If I could slow, I would start every normal mob with it in FB's whenever amp is up. Granted, that one is of more limited use in a squad, but I didn't say all support was amazing or equally beneficial.

I didn't mention stun, I almost did but well... sage wins that category due to lucky and being able to use nova more often (yes, I realize nova isn't a stun... for pve purposes it's close enough).

Soul Degeneration isn't support, it's for damage. SD doesn't help anyone else in the squad be more effective, it simply cuts your kill time down, just like dealing damage does. It's a very nice skill, and I don't think it would be possible for me to overhype it, but it's not a support ability.

Leech isn't support, unless you want to argue somehow that keeping yourself alive better is supporting the squad. To me support means either helping others to deal more damage or take less damage. Leech does neither of those. For that matter, neither does sprint.

Wood mastery again, is more personal damage not support.

kenlee wrote: »

see? thats why every stupid veno guide in this forum say... skip soulbanisher skip drum skip whatever. most venos never invest in their armor or vit or a damn charm... like that higher pet heal gonna speed up killing the other bosses lol

That's buying a charm to kill a specific mob. If I run into a situation where I need a charm, I'll get a bronze one. 100k hp is plenty, and I'm just going to waste 75% or more of a larger one anyways because they tick at 50%, so I might as well get the cheap one and save myself the coin. With 500k gold the difference between a bronze and plat hp charm is about 2.65 million coin. Prices on my server are 300k for citrines and a little less for garnets, that's almost twice what an immaculate shard costs. Just to put things into perspective. Which one is more beneficial in the long run?

If that's the only spot you're causing it to tick, you're not being reckless enough. Charms are made to be ticked, if you buy one and then make your actions revolve around not ticking it, you're missing the entire point of having it in the first place.

Oh, and I never shout wtb hp charm or cheap gold. 99% of world chats are a waste of money, and it's spammed bad enough already. I would never waste a telecoustic on that. Sitting in west arch around people I don't want to be around trying to buy stuff off them is even more unfun. Five seconds in the auctioneer to put gold buys in is all it takes.

A plat charm makes sense in certain situatons (for example, trioing almost all of lunar glade like I did last sunday... me, barb, cleric), but when you're not having to worry about pvp, and you only need them to survive a couple of mobs, why would you waste the money on a bigger one when the smaller one is sufficient?

As for guardian scrolls, they're a bigger scam than charms are (yes, I know they help you not drop items on a pvp server... this just helps illustrate that pvp is a coin drain that hinders your characters growth). At 95, a scroll saves 122692 exp assuming you don't get a res. Given the rate I can grind exp, that's 13 minutes 23 seconds of killing to recover the lost exp. It takes longer to generate the coin to pay for a scroll than it takes to get back the lost exp. I don't get why people get so paranoid/upset about dying. The time lost from a death is pretty minor, and just about every death in this game is avoidable. If you die, all it means is you screwed up and should learn from your mistake. Besides, at the end of the day it's just exp. Exp isn't hard to obtain.

Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »

[Amp]
25% for 26 of every 31.5 seconds=21.46% boost
30% for 20 of every 31.5 seconds=19.05% boost.

It may not be obvious, but the above flips if you have a second veno. Assuming the 2nd veno casts as soon as she sees the better amp expire, and the demon/sage veno casts as soon as cooldown allows:

Demon + 2nd veno = 25% for 26 of 31.5 sec + 20% for 4 sec = 23.5% boost
Sage + 2nd veno = 30% for 20 of 31.5 sec + 20% for 10 sec = 25.4% boost

If that's the only spot you're causing it to tick, you're not being reckless enough. Charms are made to be ticked, if you buy one and then make your actions revolve around not ticking it, you're missing the entire point of having it in the first place.

I think he meant (or he thought that you meant) causing the charm to tick when it's not needed. Like letting your mana drop below 50% and hitting soul transfusion.

Personally I'm with you on this. With how frequently I use Myriad, it's very easy for me to drop my mana below 50% before ST has recycled. So hitting ST to try to make back the mana with hp pots or genie heals results in a charm tick. It's too intrusive in my regular play to have to manage my mana to keep it above 50% all the time, so I prefer using bronze charms for the occasional run where I feel I'll need it. I've always ended up with at least half the charm left over, and end up "wasting" it when I ST or try crazy dangerous stuff just because I know I still have the charm.

As for guardian scrolls, they're a bigger scam than charms are (yes, I know they help you not drop items on a pvp server... this just helps illustrate that pvp is a coin drain that hinders your characters growth). At 95, a scroll saves 122692 exp assuming you don't get a res. Given the rate I can grind exp, that's 13 minutes 23 seconds of killing to recover the lost exp. It takes longer to generate the coin to pay for a scroll than it takes to get back the lost exp.

I buy guardian scrolls mostly to give to clerics in my squad. That way they're not afraid to just res on the spot if they die, and we can continue without delay. Without it, sometimes they insist on making everyone wait 15 min while someone runs their alt cleric in to res them. Same goes for res scrolls. 50k to save 10 min waiting for the cleric to run back into the instance is dirt cheap in my book.

I do use guardian scrolls in random squads. But that's because as a heavy/arcane build, I frequently have many pieces of equipment worth 2-10 mil in my inventory. They're insurance against that stupid 1% chance to drop an inventory item if you're blue-named.

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I do use guardian scrolls in random squads. But that's because as a heavy/arcane build, I frequently have many pieces of equipment worth 2-10 mil in my inventory. They're insurance against that stupid 1% chance to drop an inventory item if you're blue-named.

They removed that chance when you're blue named a few patches ago. If you're blue the only thing they do now is save you the exp.

The wiki has the current drop chances:
http://pwi-wiki.perfectworld.com/index.php/Dying#Item_Loss