how not to aggro?

hemoglobin
hemoglobin Posts: 1 Arc User
edited November 2009 in Archer
help me this aggro thing is so bad to the point where at lvl x8 or x9 i cant even use normal attacks on the bh boss without messing it up! b:shocked maybe i should use genie only?
Post edited by hemoglobin on

Comments

  • Legerity - Sanctuary
    Legerity - Sanctuary Posts: 1,072 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    hemoglobin wrote: »
    help me this aggro thing is so bad to the point where at lvl x8 or x9 i cant even use normal attacks on the bh boss without messing it up! b:shocked maybe i should use genie only?

    Depending on the level of the tanker and class you need to start at various points in battle.

    I use to shoot and stop throughout the battle but I eventually got lazy and did the following:

    Barb of equal level after sharping start at 75% (sharp removes 16%).

    For every difference in level bracket (7x, 8x etc) -5 or +5 %.

    Herc tanking ? boss, sharp after herc has established aggro and wait for sharp timer to wear off.

    If you still get aggro from a Barb or Herc, take off a ring or two the next time you come across a similar leveled Barb or Herc (or remove blessing).

    Sometimes though, Barbs are bad tanks so you'll grab aggro regardless.

    Those values differ for everyone so only thing I can say is know yourself and know the tanker (experience will allow you to judge easily).

    In fact, sometimes I don't use a bow until 45% depending on the boss and tanker. (I use bare fists when I don't use a bow)
  • Baalbak - Dreamweaver
    Baalbak - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,624 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Legerity - Sanctuary wrote: »
    (I use bare fists when I don't use a bow)

    why not use a pair of fists? youll get more damage per second and still be less likely to steal agro from even a bad barb. not to mention archer's have skills that can be used with fists (all weapon skill tree).

    something like wingspan and winged pledge..
    Winged Pledge Level 10
    Range 5 meters
    Mana 204
    Channel 0.5 seconds
    Cast 0.9 seconds
    Cooldown 2.0 seconds
    Weapon Any

    Requisite Cultivation Aware of Principle
    Use the power of all winged creatures to attack a nearby
    opponent, inflicting base physical damage plus 2098.3.
    Wingspan Level 10
    Range 5 meters
    Mana 337.5
    Channel 1.0 seconds
    Cast 1.0 seconds
    Cooldown 6.0 seconds
    Weapon Any

    Requisite Cultivation Aware of Discord
    Use the divine power of the Winged Elves to attack enemies
    within 8-meter-radius around you, inflicting base physical
    damage plus 2844.8 and knocking them back 9.0 meters.

    i wouldnt worry about the knockback aspect of wingspan, it doesn't really affect bosses from my experience with slam and knockback arrow (have a 26 archer).
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  • Legerity - Sanctuary
    Legerity - Sanctuary Posts: 1,072 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Baalbak - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    why not use a pair of fists? youll get more damage per second and still be less likely to steal agro ...

    That would be self defeating.

    Why would I want to do more damage if dealing damage is what got me the aggro anyway?

    If I wanted DPS, I'd let my bow autofire.

    And I can guarantee that I can take aggro with a pair of fists I can equip with my lvl's str requirements.

    Plus I get to demon spark for the awesomeness and not take aggro with bare fists. ^^
  • Baalbak - Dreamweaver
    Baalbak - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,624 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Legerity - Sanctuary wrote: »
    That would be self defeating.

    Why would I want to do more damage if dealing damage is what got me the aggro anyway?

    well I wasn't exactly meaning once you had already gotten agro. I was actually referring to it as a preventative measure - which I think was what the OP is asking. If you're pure dex build, I don't think the fists would put out as much DPS as autofiring with your bow would since your dex wouldnt affect the fists attack str, and your str would be minimal towards increasing your pattack. Its likely a safe middle ground between low dps and agro stealing dps if youre with a group you feel like you'd get agro easily with.
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  • Legerity - Sanctuary
    Legerity - Sanctuary Posts: 1,072 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Baalbak - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    well I wasn't exactly meaning once you had already gotten agro. I was actually referring to it as a preventative measure - which I think was what the OP is asking. If you're pure dex build, I don't think the fists would put out as much DPS as autofiring with your bow would since your dex wouldnt affect the fists attack str, and your str would be minimal towards increasing your pattack. Its likely a safe middle ground between low dps and agro stealing dps if youre with a group you feel like you'd get agro easily with.

    Don't underestimate an Archer who has -interval gear on such as myself with an actual real pair of fists.

    Just for the record, I could hit 3k crits with demon spark with bare fists at a rate of > 2attacks.

    I'd recommend bare fists. If others are feeling adventrous, they can try. But be warned that if they have -interval gear, they will take aggro at some point using fists.

    edit: 2078-2078 on demon spark with rate of 2.0 with bare fists. I mentioned nothing about already getting aggro and then using fists. What I meant was use bare fists first (after sharp of course) so that when you start using your bow, you won't get aggro throughout the battle. When do you switch to bow? Depends on -interval mods and the tank's ability and how much you know your Archer. Of course as an alternative, you could always stand there until a cetain point in battle.
  • hemoglobin
    hemoglobin Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    fisting the boss? that would be pretty hilarious, i think my squad would yell at me, archer wtf are you doing! and then i would get one shotted by the boss' aoe
  • Legerity - Sanctuary
    Legerity - Sanctuary Posts: 1,072 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    hemoglobin wrote: »
    fisting the boss? that would be pretty hilarious, i think my squad would yell at me, archer wtf are you doing! and then i would get one shotted by the boss' aoe

    Obviously if it has AoE you don't fist it...common sense right? =/
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Legerity - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Obviously if it has AoE you don't fist it...common sense right? =/

    nope.
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  • Tomiko - Heavens Tear
    Tomiko - Heavens Tear Posts: 416 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    1) Wait to engage.
    2) Use a low level bow.
    3) Use fists, claw, or bare hand.
    4) Stand in point blank range to half your damage.
  • WaffleChan - Sanctuary
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary Posts: 2,897 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    if the tank is lower level:
    start off by getting up close to the boss if you can, and sta, if not, wait for the tank to get a few hits, then STA.

    wait for it to wear off, start attacking. what i do from there is count 15 shots, stop for 3 seconds, then continue firing.

    if its higher:
    i repeat step 1, then attack after it wears off, if theyre good enough i usually dont steal.
    tis what i do, and i havent stolen aggro yet, despite knowing it could easily be done.
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  • Frijolero - Sanctuary
    Frijolero - Sanctuary Posts: 820 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    My experience has told me that archer's Damage over Time attacks have a pretty low aggro signature and higher damage than barehanded. Of course, this depends on skill level.

    So, I would say, to not get aggro from boss:

    1.- Wait till tank engages
    2.- shoot Sharpened Tooth Arrow.
    3.- shoot Vicious Arrow.
    4.- shoot Serrated Arrow
    5.- more DoTs! more DoTs! more DoTs! more DoTs! more DoTs!
    6.- Once Boss's HP is about 75%-50% start normal attack run.

    It works for me b:victory
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    Although I'm still alive, pray to God I survive
    How long on this longest day, 'til we finally make it through.
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  • Quizenbort - Dreamweaver
    Quizenbort - Dreamweaver Posts: 71 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Sharpen Tooth then
    Put on Fists of Anniliation or something like it.
    Stand behind the mob.. and hit it...
    you most likely will never draw aggro this way. Just dont spark at the begining.
    If you want to use a bow.. make sure your with a higher lvl barb with good aggro skills.

    or my favorite.. if the mob has a ranged magic attack and will stay ranged. buy a charm and tank it yourself.
  • Elenacostel - Heavens Tear
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Frijolero - Sanctuary wrote: »
    My experience has told me that archer's Damage over Time attacks have a pretty low aggro signature and higher damage than barehanded. Of course, this depends on skill level.

    So you are wasting mana to deal less damage?
  • Frijolero - Sanctuary
    Frijolero - Sanctuary Posts: 820 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    So you are wasting mana to deal less damage?

    Better waste mana than waste a good HP charm or risk beign called a noob for stealing aggro and setting up a party wipe.

    You are still doing a lot of damage, but it wont be perceptive to the boss till your total damage overcomes the tanks total damge. that's why you DoT till you are sure you won't steal aggro.
    Sliding we go, only fear on our side. To the edge of the wire and we rush with the tide.
    Although I'm still alive, pray to God I survive
    How long on this longest day, 'til we finally make it through.
    - June 6, 1944. The day earth stood still.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Elenacostel - Heavens Tear
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Frijolero - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Better waste mana than waste a good HP charm or risk beign called a noob for stealing aggro and setting up a party wipe.

    You are still doing a lot of damage, but it wont be perceptive to the boss till your total damage overcomes the tanks total damge. that's why you DoT till you are sure you won't steal aggro.

    But couldn't you simply... not attack?

    It's really not that hard. You stand there... and don't attack the boss.

    The only drawback I can see of it is that you are not gaining chi during this time. This can be remedied by casting Wings of Protection repeatedly, or by going up and punching bare-handed.
  • Frijolero - Sanctuary
    Frijolero - Sanctuary Posts: 820 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    But couldn't you simply... not attack?

    It's really not that hard. You stand there... and don't attack the boss.

    The only drawback I can see of it is that you are not gaining chi during this time. This can be remedied by casting Wings of Protection repeatedly, or by going up and punching bare-handed.

    Building chi by repeatedly casting Wings of Protection could be the worst MP waste because you are not even harming the boss. You can still build Chi AND deal damage at the same time with DoT attacks without stealing aggro.

    Besides, Vicious arrow and Wings of Protection spend about the same amount of mana on similar levels. Serrated arrow spends bout 10-20 more MP than the other two.

    And yes, not doing anything is also a good choice. You can meditate and pop some pots or apoth medicines to get ready for your big **** kicking entrance.
    Sliding we go, only fear on our side. To the edge of the wire and we rush with the tide.
    Although I'm still alive, pray to God I survive
    How long on this longest day, 'til we finally make it through.
    - June 6, 1944. The day earth stood still.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Ehh go ahead and steal aggro. It keeps things a bit interesting for the barb which keeps them from falling asleep and it means you are doing good damage (thats your job). You still have winged shield, wings of grace, tree of protection, apothecary stuff to keep you alive for a good chuck of time.

    If you do it often enough the barb will learn how to use flesh ream and thus becomes a better tank.

    If you have a good cleric you can even tank most bosses.
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  • Frijolero - Sanctuary
    Frijolero - Sanctuary Posts: 820 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Ehh go ahead and steal aggro. It keeps things a bit interesting for the barb which keeps them from falling asleep and it means you are doing good damage (thats your job). You still have winged shield, wings of grace, tree of protection, apothecary stuff to keep you alive for a good chuck of time.

    If you do it often enough the barb will learn how to use flesh ream and thus becomes a better tank.

    If you have a good cleric you can even tank most bosses.

    ehmmm... I really don't wanna teach the barb how to tank properly at my own Exp expense. I prefer let him get killed or let other steal aggro and die. b:chuckle
    Sliding we go, only fear on our side. To the edge of the wire and we rush with the tide.
    Although I'm still alive, pray to God I survive
    How long on this longest day, 'til we finally make it through.
    - June 6, 1944. The day earth stood still.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    do you really want to build chi if you're trying not to take aggro from a tank? really? forget wings of protection spam, standing by works.
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  • Oichii - Dreamweaver
    Oichii - Dreamweaver Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    I follow these 2 methods :

    Method 1 :

    1> Use Sharptooth and wait till Boss HP is ~75%
    2> Use a Combo with not more than 3 - 4 Normal shots
    Example : Normal + Normal + Normal + Skill + Repeat
    (I mostly use the Thunder Shock or Thunder Bolt, Deadly Shot or Thunderous Blast are sure to pull aggro if they critical x.x ).

    What this does is the skill cast time takes away the aggro from your normal attacks for the moment. With time, you can approximately predict how many normal shots are required to draw aggro, it varies for xbow, slings or bows.

    So get an Auto Combo for yourself and go AFK =) Let the Barb worry about the Aggro part, I can most certainly assure you that with you don't take aggro unless the barb is several levels below you or is a dumb barbarian that can't time spamming aggro.


    Method 2 :

    1> Get close to the Boss and start firing away.
    Yes this sounds stupid since you do half damage but actually you end up doing more damage by dealing just half damage for 5 mins instead of ranged damage for 2 mins that's not constant.
    2> Do these on bosses that are not too powerful, you wouldn't want to draw aggro accidentally by this and get hit by a really powerful boss that can 2 hit you when your near it.
  • AkioHikaru - Sanctuary
    AkioHikaru - Sanctuary Posts: 28 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Ahh the use bare fist technique...all fine until you run into an AOE boss. A good tanker that can hold aggro, you're usually fine just using sharp and attacking as normal. Sometimes you need to stop and let the tank grab a better hold before resuming.

    Often enough you'll find yourself in positions where you lack a decent tank. Just part of the game, not always your fault.

    In cases like that do use your DOT spells, you have several. Bosses with lots of HP such as those in TT, the DOT will add up. Also I know that most of us hate Stormrage Eagleon, but it is a decent DOT and have had several barbs like the 30% slow (easier for the barb to interrupt boss's AOE).

    I'd rather burn a little extra mp from my charm and loose chi than dying. All situations are different, just adapt at your discretion.
  • King_Solomon - Heavens Tear
    King_Solomon - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,341 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    I was supporting a barb (as a melee veno) with chintien and then the archer (25+ lvl higher than us) stole aggro. I managed to get aggro over archer with alpha male (genie skill). the problem with alpha male is that it's like a vicious circle. as it overrides bramble the final damage tanks deal turns to be much lower.
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  • Transcend - Lost City
    Transcend - Lost City Posts: 448 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Wait for tank/herc to agro, sharptooth , then tap any directional key (if it's boss). Otherwise, just shoot once, tap direction key, count 1-2 seconds, shoot once again.

    Doesn't get much easier than that really.
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  • Immobilize - Harshlands
    Immobilize - Harshlands Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    I can only reiterate what other's have already said.

    I just take breaks from attacking for a few seconds and continue attacking.

    Just FYI, continuous normal attacks only actually cause more DPS overall than firing off skills.
  • hemoglobin
    hemoglobin Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    yeah normal attacks only works when you use it at intervals
  • Jetue - Harshlands
    Jetue - Harshlands Posts: 56 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    And now, a comment from the clerics.

    I do this, and I know several others do as well.

    Whenever I have an archer in squad that is either close to or higher lvl than tank, I first off keep an eye on their hp, if it drops or I see boss change agro I switch targets or hit BB if I have the chi (<3 BB). If you have a good cleric, you should be able to last until tank takes agro back, or just tank it yourself (depends on boss).

    Tips for makeing your clerics job a bit easier:
    1) do not stand directly in line with tank and boss. Stand at least 45 degrees to one side. This makes it much easier to tell if agro has changed. (applies to any dd too)
    2) read all previous comments
    3) if you do take agro, and do not intend to keep it, STOP IMMEDIATELY, use dmg reduction skills, and run to tank.


    I realize this is not how to not take agro, but we all know you will take agro occasionally, and you should be prepared (practice make perfect, and is amusing at times).

    "Ehh go ahead and steal aggro. It keeps things a bit interesting for the barb which keeps them from falling asleep" - Asterelle
    So true, keeps clerics awake too.
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  • SashaSlick - Sanctuary
    SashaSlick - Sanctuary Posts: 139 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    I agree to what stated before my post!

    What i'l do if the tank is way lower than me...
    3 normal shot, stop, 3 normal shot, stop and so on.
    of cos.. STA at my first shot.

    1 more thing... i made an alt a barb. Since i know how archers works, i hav never lost any agro from a boss to an archer so far.
    (hint: get to know your squad before u reach the boss)
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