Demon Masteries: The facts!

CeliaZ - Sanctuary · November 2009

So I got tired of all those discussions, so I send a ticket with the question if the demon masteries add 1 % of each element (which gives 1 % total) or 1 % total (so 3 % with all masteries).

Re: [PWE Customer Service #SWW-74626-448] PWI :: Gameplay :: Demon/Sage Masteries‏
Van: PWE Customer Service Group (customerservice@perfectworldinc.com)
Gemiddeld risicoDeze afzender ken je mogelijk niet.Markeren als veilig|Als ongewenst markeren
Verzonden: woensdag 4 november 2009 1:33:12

Hello Celia,

It should be 1% extra critical to all magic attack? (1% for each element). If you have any additional questions or concerns, please reply back. We appreciate all the support!

Perfect World Customer Service
http://support.perfectworld.com

>
> Message:
> Dear GM,
>
> I have a question about the demon and sage effects of the masteries of the wizard class.
> Now as you know there are 3 masteries, one for each element. The sage description of the mastery is that it gives 25 % extra damage of that particular element instead of the 20 % extra damage you get from the level 10 mastery. This is very understandable.
>
> Now the demon mastery says that it gives 1 % critical hit. Now my question is, does it give 1 % for all magic attack (all elements) or only 1 % extra critical for that particular element? So if you have all three masteries, does that mean you have 3% extra critical to all magic attack, or 1% extra critical to all magic attack? (1% for each element).
>
> Thank you in advance,
>
> Celia.

Here is the same question asked by Erik:
"Greetings Erik,

The 1% Crit Bonus will only apply to spells of that particular element. In the case of the Demon ability "Fire Mastery," only fire spells will receive this 1% Crit bonus! Thus, having 1 point of each "Mastery" ability will NOT give you a bonus of 3% Crit.

Hope this clears things up."

Debate! It should be 1% extra critical to all magic attack. So, every mastery gives 1 % critical to all magic attack, so you get 1 extra % for each element. This builds up to 3 % with all masteries...

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear · November 2009

CeliaZ - Sanctuary wrote: »

So I got tired of all those discussions, so I send a ticket with the question if the demon masteries add 1 % of each element (which gives 1 % total) or 1 % total (so 3 % with all masteries).

Re: [PWE Customer Service #SWW-74626-448] PWI :: Gameplay :: Demon/Sage Masteries‏
Van: PWE Customer Service Group (customerservice@perfectworldinc.com)
Gemiddeld risicoDeze afzender ken je mogelijk niet.Markeren als veilig|Als ongewenst markeren
Verzonden: woensdag 4 november 2009 1:33:12

Hello Celia,

It should be 1% extra critical to all magic attack. (1% for each element). If you have any additional questions or concerns, please reply back. We appreciate all the support!
Perfect World Customer Service
http://support.perfectworld.com

Debate! It should be 1% extra critical to all magic attack. So, every mastery gives 1 % critical to all magic attack, so you get 1 extra % for each element. This builds up to 3 % with all masteries...

Hurray. Finally. Just 1 more thing. Why they tell you SHOULD BE ? They don't know it exactly?
I was wandering to send email directly to PW China and ask them. Probably I will do that.b:victory

Ponza - Lost City · November 2009

So does sage spell mastery increase total spell damage done, or only modifies the add-on skill damage from a spell? If it was the latter, demon masteries would hands-down be better. A sage gush that does (3390 * 1.2) vs (3390 * 1.25) does almost nothing

Edit: n/m, I decided to test this out and see for myself. Prof claims one thing and sage advocates claim another...

check my other thread if you are curious and want to find out what happens :O

Kristoph - Lost City · November 2009

They also thought harpy wraith was in fb79, so really, you're going to need a more credible source of information.

edit: also, lol dutch

CeliaZ - Sanctuary · November 2009

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

They also thought harpy wraith was in fb79, so really, you're going to need a more credible source of information.

edit: also, lol dutch

hehe, dutch ftwb:victory

Well I guess this is something atleast...

Fireblood - Harshlands · November 2009

so....lolwtfpawned?

Astarielle - Heavens Tear · November 2009

CeliaZ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Hello Celia,

It should be 1% extra critical to all magic attack. (1% for each element). If you have any additional questions or concerns, please reply back. We appreciate all the support!
Perfect World Customer Service
http://support.perfectworld.com

Debate! It should be 1% extra critical to all magic attack. So, every mastery gives 1 % critical to all magic attack, so you get 1 extra % for each element. This builds up to 3 % with all masteries...

It's still slightly ambiguous I guess, as reading this I took the opposite out of it than you did; that they're saying you get 1% for each element, i.e. if you have all three then whatever element attack you use you get 1%, in other words 1% to ALL magical attacks.

Calliope - Heavens Tear · November 2009

Astarielle - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It's still slightly ambiguous I guess, as reading this I took the opposite out of it than you did; that they're saying you get 1% for each element, i.e. if you have all three then whatever element attack you use you get 1%, in other words 1% to ALL magical attacks.

I read it the same way you did:

I send a ticket with the question if the demon masteries add 1 % of each element (which gives 1 % total) or 1 % total (so 3 % with all masteries).

It should be 1% extra critical to all magic attack. (1% for each element).

Emphasis mine. They're saying that it gives a final total of 1%. Not sure if they're trustworthy enough though.

TehMage - Lost City · November 2009

Calliope - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I read it the same way you did:

Emphasis mine. They're saying that it gives a final total of 1%. Not sure if they're trustworthy enough though.

The way i understood that is that it gives 1% critical to all magical attacks PER mastery, so in total you get 3% critical for all your magic attacks.

MagicHamsta - Lost City · November 2009

TehMage - Lost City wrote: »

The way i understood that is that it gives 1% critical to all magical attacks PER mastery, so in total you get 3% critical for all your magic attacks.

teh ticket says teh mage understood wrong. b:shocked
"(1% for each element)"

Calliope - Heavens Tear · November 2009

TehMage - Lost City wrote: »

The way i understood that is that it gives 1% critical to all magical attacks PER mastery, so in total you get 3% critical for all your magic attacks.

But then they would have said "3% extra critical (1% per element)." It would help if we had Celia's exact question, but it seems like they're telling you your total bonus for having all 3 masteries, not the benefit from a single mastery.

CeliaZ - Sanctuary · November 2009

Calliope - Heavens Tear wrote: »

But then they would have said "3% extra critical (1% per element)." It would help if we had Celia's exact question, but it seems like they're telling you your total bonus for having all 3 masteries, not the benefit from a single mastery.

Edited my first post.

Adroit - Lost City · November 2009

well the first time I read your post I figured that the pwi support was saying a total of #5 more crit.. after you posted your question, i think they meant total 1% extra crit. In your question you asked if it was total 3% OR the 1% per element, he/she wrote word for word the non 3% choice.

Taarloor - Harshlands · November 2009

if demon masteries combine and give 3% extra crit then sage masteries would combine and give an extra 15% mag attk. It doesnt work that way i suspect.

Xegeth - Dreamweaver · November 2009

Not really.. The Mastery text is "Increases Earth Damage by x%", so it's specified on the element the mastery is for. You were right if the text was "Increases Damage by x%". The critical hit bonus isn't specified I think. Still I'm not quite sure what to make of the reply, especially because the answer ends with a questionmark. b:surrender

Calliope - Heavens Tear · November 2009

CeliaZ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Edited my first post.

Thanks. I think my point should be clearer now.

Xegeth - Dreamweaver · November 2009

Ok, I asked the question again and got the following response:

"Greetings Erik,

The 1% Crit Bonus will only apply to spells of that particular element. In the case of the Demon ability "Fire Mastery," only fire spells will receive this 1% Crit bonus! Thus, having 1 point of each "Mastery" ability will NOT give you a bonus of 3% Crit.

Hope this clears things up."

So this is a clear statement. Damnit

That makes Sage masteries win hands down... Oh well, I will still go Demon. b:surrender

CeliaZ - Sanctuary · November 2009

Xegeth - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Ok, I asked the question again and got the following response:

"Greetings Erik,

The 1% Crit Bonus will only apply to spells of that particular element. In the case of the Demon ability "Fire Mastery," only fire spells will receive this 1% Crit bonus! Thus, having 1 point of each "Mastery" ability will NOT give you a bonus of 3% Crit.

Hope this clears things up."

So this is a clear statement. Damnit That makes Sage masteries win hands down... Oh well, I will still go Demon. b:surrender

Put this into my first post as an extra argument..

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear · November 2009

Xegeth - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Ok, I asked the question again and got the following response:

"Greetings Erik,

The 1% Crit Bonus will only apply to spells of that particular element. In the case of the Demon ability "Fire Mastery," only fire spells will receive this 1% Crit bonus! Thus, having 1 point of each "Mastery" ability will NOT give you a bonus of 3% Crit.

Hope this clears things up."
So this is a clear statement. Damnit That makes Sage masteries win hands down... Oh well, I will still go Demon. b:surrender

But I still think, that somebody with good english should sent ticket(email) directly to PW china to verify it.

Adroit - Lost City · November 2009

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

But I still think, that somebody with good english should sent ticket(email) directly to PW china to verify it.

I doubt the Chinese devs are going to waste their times with something like this.. If you want to know that badly, go test with a demon wiz

Lorsis - Lost City · November 2009

why would you listen to them when they have no idea how this game work and think harpy is 79 boss? Once i come back from work i'll run a test just to shut your wh0ar mouths once and forever. Im sure they are wrong.

Lorsis - Lost City · November 2009

k n00bs, i hope these wannabe GMs will read this too:

I went to sundown town, there are 5 rams on 1 spot, quite fast spawn.
took of all my crit stuff like wand rings blessing, left with 1% crit in stats, and 1 invisible crit % form hell fire mastery.

i've been using Hailstorm to aoe rams, so i could kill them all at the same time.
Heres what i got:

Rams killed: 600
Crit hits: 11
non crit: 589

which is around 1,8% critical hits (even a little bit more than 1,8)

so.... looks like HELL FIRE MASTERY CRIT WORKED ON WATER SPELL

k thx bai

take the ticket you sent, take the mail you got form GMs and delete & forget about them.

and once again: SKILL DESCRIPTION SAYS: DEMON VERSION INCREASING CRITICAL HIT RATE BY 1%

while HEAVEN WORKING ONLY FOR SPECIFIC ELEMENT cause THATS WAHT DESCRIPTION SAYS.

k thx bai

/thread

NonameWiz - Sanctuary · November 2009

Lorsis - Lost City wrote: »

k n00bs, i hope these wannabe GMs will read this too:

I went to sundown town, there are 5 rams on 1 spot, quite fast spawn.
took of all my crit stuff like wand rings blessing, left with 1% crit in stats, and 1 invisible crit % form hell fire mastery.

i've been using Hailstorm to aoe rams, so i could kill them all at the same time.
Heres what i got:

Rams killed: 600
Crit hits: 11
non crit: 589

which is around 1,8% critical hits (even a little bit more than 1,8)

so.... looks like HELL FIRE MASTERY CRIT WORKED ON WATER SPELL

k thx bai

take the ticket you sent, take the mail you got form GMs and delete & forget about them.

and once again: SKILL DESCRIPTION SAYS: DEMON VERSION INCREASING CRITICAL HIT RATE BY 1%

while HEAVEN WORKING ONLY FOR SPECIFIC ELEMENT cause THATS WAHT DESCRIPTION SAYS.

k thx bai

/thread

kthxbye b:bye

/reopenthread

Kristoph - Lost City · November 2009

AOEing gives horrible results, try doing it 1 by 1 with gush and then pyro. Fraps it while you're at it so we know you're not BSing.

Lorsis - Lost City · November 2009

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

AOEing gives horrible results, try doing it 1 by 1 with gush and then pyro. Fraps it while you're at it so we know you're not BSing.

thats gonna take a year =X killing 600 with aoe took me 1 hour lol >.>

damn, forgot about fraps b:angry

Adroit - Lost City · November 2009

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

AOEing gives horrible results, try doing it 1 by 1 with gush and then pyro. Fraps it while you're at it so we know you're not BSing.

on top of that.. 600 is not a statistically significant number.. It may show closer to 2%.. but unless you wanna do way more than that.. doesn't really mean much. I could flip a coin 10 times.. 8 of them being heads, doesn't mean the probability of heads is 80%.. Although if I were to flip a coin say.. 10,000 times, it would likely be very close to 50%. Not asking you to go kill 10k mobs, but doing 600 doesn't mean much either.

Xegeth - Dreamweaver · November 2009

You're right, 600 mobs doesn't proof anything at all.. Maybe it shows a small hint, but that's all. I'd say testing would start to be significant if one has both fire and earth mastery and uses gush on at least 1000 mobs. Then the difference between 1% and 3% would be higher.. Anyone willing to test?

Xegeth - Dreamweaver · November 2009

Hmm, that surprises me, would have thought the difference was less. My apologies then, and good thing u ran the simulation.

Anyone knows what's the catch in using AoEs? Where is the problem? Still, this test kinda comforts me... Still it would be cool if someone could confirm this.

Kristoph - Lost City · November 2009

And honestly, with 1% crit I feel like I crit more often than what you'd expect.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear · November 2009

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

And honestly, with 1% crit I feel like I crit more often than what you'd expect.

I agree. I have now 3% and I crit. quite often. I think 1% will not be 1%, but ~1.1-1.2%. Maybe there is some error in programming.

Kannone - Heavens Tear · November 2009

b:cute Thanks for taking your time.

CeliaZ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Perfect World Customer Service
http://support.perfectworld.com

>
> Message:
> Dear GM,
>
> I have a question about the demon and sage effects of the masteries of the wizard class.
> Now as you know there are 3 masteries, one for each element. The sage description of the mastery is that it gives 25 % extra damage of that particular element instead of the 20 % extra damage you get from the level 10 mastery. This is very understandable.
>
> Now the demon mastery says that it gives 1 % critical hit. Now my question is, does it give 1 % for all magic attack (all elements) or only 1 % extra critical for that particular element? So if you have all three masteries, does that mean you have 3% extra critical to all magic attack, or 1% extra critical to all magic attack? (1% for each element).
>
> Thank you in advance,
>
> Celia.

PWI Customer Service Rep wrote:

Here is the same question asked by Erik:
"Greetings Erik,

The 1% Crit Bonus will only apply to spells of that particular element. In the case of the Demon ability "Fire Mastery," only fire spells will receive this 1% Crit bonus! Thus, having 1 point of each "Mastery" ability will NOT give you a bonus of 3% Crit.

Hope this clears things up."

Well that about wraps it up... rather unfortunate imho because this leaves us with two possible conclusions:

1.) Holy masteries > dark masteries, for obvious reasons

OR!!!!

2.) We've completely underestimated the mechanics for crits... b:surrender unlikely though, my whole model was drawn up on the assumption that the devs had made both sides mathematically equal, from this letter it appears I was mistaken at the get-go.

CeliaZ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Debate! It should be 1% extra critical to all magic attack. So, every mastery gives 1 % critical to all magic attack, so you get 1 extra % for each element. This builds up to 3 % with all masteries...

Yah I'd have to agree, for the sake of equality demon masteries should add up to 3% total crit otherwise the 5% damage gain is freakin' OP.

Demon Masteries: The facts!

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