Demon Masteries: The facts!

2»

Comments

  • Calliope - Heavens Tear
    Calliope - Heavens Tear Posts: 328 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »
    And honestly, with 1% crit I feel like I crit more often than what you'd expect.
    The game uses more precision than we see in the character screen, which makes me wonder about this. Back when I tested pdef reductions, you could have a slightly different reduction with the same % displaying. If I have time, maybe I'll run a similar test with dex, see if my crit rate with 12 dex works out to more than 1% (if I can get a cheap +7 dex somehow I'll try it with 19).
  • Calliope - Heavens Tear
    Calliope - Heavens Tear Posts: 328 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    400 kills on those same rams. I took off all my crit gear, so I had 1% crit and 17 dex (borrowed a dex magic ring). Here are the results:

    399 normal hits (first 300 were all normal)
    1 crit

    Can't reject my null hypothesis. Oh well.
  • Dratini - Lost City
    Dratini - Lost City Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    the person who answered your ticket is a ******
    firstly, their answer is so ambiguous
    secondly, there is a "?" at the end indicating they are not sure and have just red the skill descritption at ecatomb and attempted to interpret it
    need someone to go and gush 1000 monsters
    imo its probably 3% total otherwise it would just be severly imbalanced
    if it is 3% i reckon sage masteries are the same awesome as demon masteries
    3% crit = 3% more damage (bonus damage delivered in spikes = bypass charm kills?)
    VS
    4% damage = 4% more damage (bonus damage delivered consitently = dps during sutra after ticking charm kills?)
    not too sure if my last comparison is true
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Dratini - Lost City wrote: »
    the person who answered your ticket is a ******
    firstly, their answer is so ambiguous
    secondly, there is a "?" at the end indicating they are not sure and have just red the skill descritption at ecatomb and attempted to interpret it
    need someone to go and gush 1000 monsters
    imo its probably 3% total otherwise it would just be severly imbalanced
    if it is 3% i reckon sage masteries are the same awesome as demon masteries
    3% crit = 3% more damage (bonus damage delivered in spikes = bypass charm kills?)
    VS
    4% damage = 4% more damage (bonus damage delivered consitently = dps during sutra after ticking charm kills?)
    not too sure if my last comparison is true

    *cough cough* Dratini that was the actual question being asked not the answer. b:chuckle
    "> Thank you in advance,
    >
    > Celia."
    that part makes it obvious ish. o.o'
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
    Hawk:Do this. closing thread
    frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
    Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
    Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
    LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
    Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
    Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
    58% chance to get tokens
    41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
    1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • DumbIedore - Sanctuary
    DumbIedore - Sanctuary Posts: 111 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    well, it might be logical for our magical critical hit rate to be increased by 3% because other masteries like cleric's metal mastery increases their critical hit rate by 2%.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Faction: Myriad
    Rank: Executor
    pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=343881
  • Rezsonate - Heavens Tear
    Rezsonate - Heavens Tear Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    wtd is this, just +1% to crit.....
    *COUGH* cleric = +2% CRIT
    Dang!...I just lost my train of thought...
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Rezsonate - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    wtd is this, just +1% to crit.....
    *COUGH* cleric = +2% CRIT

    *cough weaker damage* *cough soitbalancesout cough cough andmakessense cough*
    b:chuckle
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
    Hawk:Do this. closing thread
    frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
    Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
    Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
    LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
    Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
    Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
    58% chance to get tokens
    41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
    1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • JediPandaX - Sanctuary
    JediPandaX - Sanctuary Posts: 28 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Sigh i've been looking for a simple this is better or that is better but the Sage/Demon Wiz topic always spins off into limbo. Are there any Demon Wizzys out there that are happy wth the choice they made?b:surrender
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]The Phantom Zone of ultimate MaDdNeSs is A ROOM WTH A MOOSE!
  • DumbIedore - Sanctuary
    DumbIedore - Sanctuary Posts: 111 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    ecatomb.net seems to have updated their info on the demon masteries. they now say "increases critical hit rate by 1%".

    http://www.ecatomb.net/skillpwi.php
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Faction: Myriad
    Rank: Executor
    pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=343881
  • King_Solomon - Heavens Tear
    King_Solomon - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,341 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Statistics have error margins. Despite the effort it doesn't prove a thing to me.

    Perhaps a GM could make a Wizard with 0% base crit (maybe 0 dex?) to test it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    If you're willing to join another online game do NOT join any hosted by K2 NETWORK. Want to know why? Check BBB complaints.
  • prof
    prof Posts: 1,111
    edited November 2009
    JediPandaX - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Sigh i've been looking for a simple this is better or that is better but the Sage/Demon Wiz topic always spins off into limbo. Are there any Demon Wizzys out there that are happy wth the choice they made?b:surrender

    I have always been demon and I would never have it any other way.

    b:bye
  • Sherekahn - Lost City
    Sherekahn - Lost City Posts: 114 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Lorsis if u don't already have water mastery u shuld learn earth mastery and run another test... it'd be a lot easier to decipher the results

    anyways i'll test it this way eventually myself if no one else does first
  • Lorsis - Lost City
    Lorsis - Lost City Posts: 74 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I thought i posted results od 2nd test... With earth and fire mastery... Seems i forgot. But results were pretty much the same, it does stack, and working on all elements
  • Karmay - Sanctuary
    Karmay - Sanctuary Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    A quick and dirty mathematical comparison of sage/demon masteries on DPS using pyro and stone rain.

    Why not gush? Additional damage is hard to factor in without coming up with a full set of equipment and a mage to wear that equipment, which introduces more variance and makes it harder to see the effect of the masteries reliably.

    I'm also ignoring the longer cooldown time of stone rain, but the idea is to compare the effect of the masteries, not the individual skills.

    DPS = Total Damage / Total Time
    Total Damage = Base Damage * Mastery Boost * Critical Hit Rate
    Total Time = Channeling + Cast + Lag

    I’ll assume a .15 second lag per spell, so .3 for both spells

    For Critical Hit Rate, I will use a mage with the basic 1%, and a mage with 17% from gear. I will also run the Demon with and without crit % from masteries stacking. I saw that in a different post on the subject, where the demon mage had 20% crit when eyes of observation were used.

    To Make things simple, I’ll use a base damage of ‘1’ as the total for BOTH spells. This makes computation and comparison easier without throwing results off. Want realistic damage? Just multiply the final number here by the actual base damage for both spells combined (meaning base magic damage +%wep damage).

    Sage Total Time = (1.5+0.8+0.15) + (1.6+1.4+.15) = 5.6
    Demon Total Time = (1.2+.8+.15) + (2.0+1.4+.15) = 5.7
    --> Conveniently similar for comparing masteries alone.

    Sage:

    Total Damage = 1*1.25*1.01 = 1.2625
    DPS = 1.2625/5.6 = 0.225446429

    Total Damage = 1*1.25*1.17 = 1.4625
    DPS = 1.4625/5.6 = 0.261160714


    Demon With Stacking:

    Total Damage = 1*1.20*1.04=1.248
    DPS = 1.248/5.7 = 0.218947368
    -->Comparable Sage has 2.96% damage advantage over Demon


    Total Damage = 1*1.20*1.20=1.44
    DPS = 1.44/5.7 = 0.252631579
    -->Comparable Sage has 3.37% damage advantage over Demon


    Demon Without Stacking:

    Total Damage = 1*1.20*1.02=1.224
    DPS = 1.224/5.7 = 0.214736842
    -->Comparable Sage has 4.98% damage advantage over Demon

    Total Damage = 1*1.20*1.18=1.416
    DPS = 1.416/5.7 = 0.248421053
    -->Comparable Sage has 5.12% damage advantage over Demon

    As a quick damage example, lets say pyro has a base of 5k and stone rain a base of 7.5k (just made up), then:

    Sage with 1% base crit does (12500)*0.225446429 = 2818 dps
    Demon with 1% base crit and crit stacking does (12500)*0.218947368 = 2737 dps
    Demon with 1% base crit and 1% mastery does (12500)*0.214736842 = 2684 dps

    So it boils down to about a 2% difference in damage depending on if it stacks or not (3% vs. 5% sage advantage) for the pyro+stone rain combo minus cooldown times. Note that if you arbitrarily make the two times the same (5.7 each) it shrinks to about a 1.16% sage advantage.

    Another note is that if you run the same thing with gush/pyro and ignore the demon damage advantage on gush, demon comes out ahead by roughly 5.7% dps, due to the timing advantage (again ignoring cooldown, which is an important factor for long term DPS).

    Obviously this doesn’t take in to account a lot of other skills and skill effects, so I wouldn’t recommend using these numbers alone as a choice for sage/demon either. This also assumes that 1% crit really means 1% crit in game, which there is some controversy over.
  • FireWizardEX - Dreamweaver
    FireWizardEX - Dreamweaver Posts: 463 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Cholla - Harshlands wrote: »
    Yes... you should try that again with triple spark.

    Or, if triple spark is too slow for you, with sage/demon wellspring quaff for the first spell in your spell sequence.

    or just giving a look to bids.....b:bye
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MrSpits - Lost City
    MrSpits - Lost City Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Don't believe for 1 second that the GM's in this game have a clue about the game itself. They gave you an un-educated guess. If it was 1% for all I imagine it would be reflected by your total crit %.

    I don't see how sage would be 1 way and demon another. The crit should only apply to those elements.
    Lorsis - Lost City wrote: »
    I thought i posted results od 2nd test... With earth and fire mastery... Seems i forgot. But results were pretty much the same, it does stack, and working on all elements

    This is a case of wishful thinking. You can't possibly notice a difference of 1% and say it works on all elements. Now if you can actually read the physical data to get an actual 100% sure #, then I will believe it. :P

    Still a single sage ice dragon > all demon masteries if they ever did stack.
  • FireWizardEX - Dreamweaver
    FireWizardEX - Dreamweaver Posts: 463 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    MrSpits - Lost City wrote: »
    Don't believe for 1 second that the GM's in this game have a clue about the game itself. They gave you an un-educated guess. If it was 1% for all I imagine it would be reflected by your total crit %.

    I don't see how sage would be 1 way and demon another. The crit should only apply to those elements.



    This is a case of wishful thinking. You can't possibly notice a difference of 1% and say it works on all elements. Now if you can actually read the physical data to get an actual 100% sure #, then I will believe it. :P

    Still a single sage ice dragon > all demon masteries if they ever did stack.

    what he told is indeed what i think....
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Categories