Demon Masteries, and Will of Pheonix

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Comments

  • exent
    exent Posts: 197 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Cholla - Harshlands wrote: »
    But if you have a 10% critical hit chance and you get +3% critical hit you then have a 13% critical hit chance.

    If you were doing 1000 dps without critical hits, your critical hit DPS would be 1100 with a 10% chance and 1130 with a 13% chance.

    I will leave dividing 1130 by 1100 as an exercise for the student.

    LOL, you are completely right. b:chuckle

    Man, what a noob... b:surrender
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »
    Heaven's tear has been around for as long as lost city, so... they should/could have the same amount. The top faction on our server has like 190 90+, and a lot of other factions have a lot of 9x and even some 10x. (top faction has a little over 40 10x)


    Without hh90 you don't matter.

    b:sad
    me feel so unwanted now. b:cry
    lol mayhaps lost city just likes PWI more then the other servers. b:dirty

    whut the?
    Cholla and extent. you guys are figuring out functions using arithmetic? b:surrender good luck with that.
    (>.<)'
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
    Hawk:Do this. closing thread
    frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
    Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
    Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
    LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
    Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
    Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
    58% chance to get tokens
    41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
    1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
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  • InvokerMage - Lost City
    InvokerMage - Lost City Posts: 37 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Yes you can critices more often with first 100hits. But in next 100hit you will crites less. Matematics cannot lie.

    i hate to break this to you but NO, no matter how many times you hit something, there is ABSOLUTELY NO way to test crits. what you are saying is, that if you have 5% crit, you will crit 5 times out of 100 hits. this is wrong, because the luck involved uses a 5% chance for EACH hit. its NOT as if the code says "ok, because the player hit something 100x, i must randomly choose 5 of those hits to make a critical."

    Edit: to clarify what im saying... yes, in an infinate number of hits, 5% of them will crit. be careful of using actual numbers (100 or 1000 or even 10000000000000000) as infinity is not something that can be measured, nor is luck.

    on a side note, does anyone know how the crit works? (does it simply do double damage? does it do a multiple of damage based on your agi? and is it calculated before or after damage reduction?)
  • Ursa - Dreamweaver
    Ursa - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,634 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »
    Not exactly... extra raw damage combined with crits or skills like Ice Dragon work out really well for sage.


    Heaven's tear has been around for as long as lost city, so... they should/could have the same amount. The top faction on our server has like 190 90+, and a lot of other factions have a lot of 9x and even some 10x. (top faction has a little over 40 10x)


    So yeah, 89 is pretty much a twoshot. Hell, I can oneshot a 89 wiz without needing a crit/spark(s) and I'm a wizard myself, would only be easier for archers/barbs. Without hh90 you don't matter.

    oh, no doubt.
    I'm 1 shotting wizards up to 89 myself, I even 1 shot 90+ wizards with Tempest.
    Basically in TW /PvP if the vast majority is over 90, you don't count as <90.
    ____________
    I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
    George Carlin

    ~I listen to hardcore FIGHT songs when I visit the forum, just to get into the proper mood~

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    InvokerMage - Lost City wrote: »
    i hate to break this to you but NO, no matter how many times you hit something, there is ABSOLUTELY NO way to test crits. what you are saying is, that if you have 5% crit, you will crit 5 times out of 100 hits. this is wrong, because the luck involved uses a 5% chance for EACH hit. its NOT as if the code says "ok, because the player hit something 100x, i must randomly choose 5 of those hits to make a critical."

    on a side note, does anyone know how the crit works? (does it simply do double damage? does it do a multiple of damage based on your agi? and is it calculated before or after damage reduction?)

    Luck does not exist.
    only skills and noob power exist. silly humans. (>.<)'
    also it can be tested out. sowwys. (>.<)'
    but instead of setting teh base test number at 100 you has to set it to near infinity amounts of hits.

    math says it can be done.
    =O
    lols if you go back about 2 pages you can see our wacked out algeblah on steroids (also known as teh calculus.) b:shocked

    there be some type of algorithm which determines your crit now if anyone actually manages to crack the code then it could be crit at will.
    xD
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
    Hawk:Do this. closing thread
    frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
    Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
    Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
    LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
    Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
    Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
    58% chance to get tokens
    41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
    1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • InvokerMage - Lost City
    InvokerMage - Lost City Posts: 37 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »
    Luck does not exist.
    also it can be tested out. sowwys. (>.<)'

    by luck i mean the random factor that governs when the hit lands inside the 5% margins and crits

    and actually, your friend Kannone proved my argument completely. his formula is overcomplicated imo, but he is 100% right, and he proves what i just said.

    sorry if i cant explain myself clearly lol, but the math is clear.
  • Mumintroll - Heavens Tear
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,393 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »
    Luck does not exist.
    only skills and noob power exist. silly humans. (>.<)'
    also it can be tested out. sowwys. (>.<)'
    but instead of setting teh base test number at 100 you has to set it to near infinity amounts of hits.

    math says it can be done.
    =O
    lols if you go back about 2 pages you can see our wacked out algeblah on steroids (also known as teh calculus.) b:shocked

    there be some type of algorithm which determines your crit now if anyone actually manages to crack the code then it could be crit at will.
    xD

    You right. Mathematically it can be proven. You need just a lot, a lot, a lot of hits. With lesser hits you will get bigger mistake(im not sure if this is correct english word for this situation)but with infiniti hits your matematical accurate will be on 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999- % right.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • InvokerMage - Lost City
    InvokerMage - Lost City Posts: 37 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    "but instead of setting teh base test number at 100 you has to set it to near infinity amounts of hits."

    yes, the more hits you shove into the equation, the closer you will come to the perfect answer ( # of initial hits * 5%)

    your problem is infinity. when you say "near infinity" you are still using ∞ - x where x is your distance from infinity. this still leaves you with ∞ in your equation and no actual numbers

    and wow, Kannone seems to have struck gold. someone should post some labeled graphs showing total damage as limb b -> ∞ , maybe on a new thread

    i know this has absolutely nothing to do with the original topic, yet its interesting as hell and can help with wizard vs archer kinds of arguments
  • exent
    exent Posts: 197 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    100 hits wouldn't be near enough... But you don't have to reach an infinite number either. The higher number of hits give you a number closer to reality. I would say around 5 thousand hits would be statistically accurate enough...

    Everything is measurable using stats.

    TREMBLE BEFORE THE MIGHTY POWER OF MATHEMATICS!!! MOUAHAHAHAAAaaa.....

    b:laugh
  • Kristoph - Lost City
    Kristoph - Lost City Posts: 2,016 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Dumbing it down...


    5% crit = every 100 hits 5 will crit -on average-. Every 200 hits you'll crit 10 times -on average-.


    But no, this doesn't mean that if you don't crit in the first 100, you'll crit 10 times in the next 100. It simply doesn't work that way, because you could apply the same reasoning to a much larger scale. Meaning mumintroll's statement is pointless.
    Wondering how much longer these **** packs are going to be around.
  • prof
    prof Posts: 1,111
    edited November 2009
    it
    is
    impossible
    to
    know
    if
    the
    crit
    rate
    works
    for
    1%
    or
    3%
    if
    you
    just
    hit
    a
    bunch
    of
    times
    .
  • Mumintroll - Heavens Tear
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,393 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    exent wrote: »
    100 hits wouldn't be near enough... But you don't have to reach an infinite number either. The higher number of hits give you a number closer to reality. I would say around 5 thousand hits would be statistically accurate enough...

    Everything is measurable using stats.

    TREMBLE BEFORE THE MIGHTY POWER OF MATHEMATICS!!! MOUAHAHAHAAAaaa.....

    b:laugh

    Exactly. Everything it just depend on amount of hits. I drow just by hand hyperbole of hits and accurate. I will do it on comp. when I will come home. And in +5000hit is mathematicall error(this is right word) low enough, so we can consider result as right. And for SURE +5000hits would show us, if you have 3% more critical from masteries or just 1%.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    prof wrote: »
    it
    is
    possible
    to
    know
    if
    the
    crit
    rate
    works
    for
    1%
    or
    3%
    if
    you
    just
    hit
    an
    ridiculous
    amount
    of
    times
    .

    fixed.

    this game be a game designed by humans who be based on teh mathematics. as such there be some sort of formula in place which determines when your character crits. (O.o)
    hitting an insane amount of times would give you teh answers to teh formula which you can work backwards from and get the actual formula.
    then you could plug in the whole demon crit thingy and stuff.
    (>.<)'

    fear mah noobtastic hamster math~?
    ("')(O.o)("')

    me suppose 100,000-500,000 (Any more and we would all be guaranteed to get teh carpel tunnel if we don't already) (>.<)' attacks should be enough to show a reasonable amount of crits.
    err...
    so.... who here be willing to attack deers or something 100,000 times?
    b:shocked.
    actually wouldn't have to be deer since what you hit doesn't affect crit rate right as long as you don't miss? hmm me thinks me might know a faster way.... going to be hard though.
    D:
    we would need someone with a really good eye. go somewhere zhen for an hour and somehow record their damage thingy and determine how many crits they get out of total attacks. (>.<)'
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
    Hawk:Do this. closing thread
    frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
    Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
    Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
    LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
    Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
    Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
    58% chance to get tokens
    41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
    1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Ponza - Lost City
    Ponza - Lost City Posts: 176 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    It's not possible to know 100%, but it's also ridiculous to want a 99.99999% chance to be right...for this kind of test I think 10000 hits or even less would be enough...

    It's just not practical to want to do 1000000 hits just to increase the confidence interval by a couple %. It's just a habit that gamers want to know something with 100% certainty :/
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Ponza - Lost City wrote: »
    It's not possible to know 100%, but it's also ridiculous to want a 99.99999% chance to be right...for this kind of test I think 10000 hits or even less would be enough...

    It's just not practical to want to do 1000000 hits just to increase the confidence interval by a couple %. It's just a habit that gamers want to know something with 100% certainty :/

    Ponza you don't play much do you.
    xD

    seriously think about the amount of hits a person has to do in order to reach level 80+ thats probably more then enough to figure it out. except noone bothered to count the hits/crits.
    DX
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
    Hawk:Do this. closing thread
    frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
    Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
    Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
    LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
    Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
    Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
    58% chance to get tokens
    41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
    1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Kristoph - Lost City
    Kristoph - Lost City Posts: 2,016 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    You can test it decently, just take any wiz, unequip everything, use some clean weapon and use skills a few hundred times, then repeat with a demon wizard who has all of the masteries. If they stack up to 4% total, the difference would be noticable.
    Wondering how much longer these **** packs are going to be around.
  • Mumintroll - Heavens Tear
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,393 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »
    You can test it decently, just take any wiz, unequip everything, use some clean weapon and use skills a few hundred times, then repeat with a demon wizard who has all of the masteries. If they stack up to 4% total, the difference would be noticable.

    I agree. And I telling this for almost 2 weeks. But if your idea will read "prof", he will tell you, that you are stupid. Because only he knows where truth is.b:laugh
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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