Recent studies explain high class failure rate
Comments
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This is how I see it.
Monkey see, monkey do.0 -
This is actually a smart thing for those classes to do IF the tank hasn't already made sure to grab the monster's attention via roar or just attacking it.
Why?
Heal aggro. Anyone who's at a decent level and knows how to play their class should be able to figure the rest out on their own.
b:surrender..sorries meant to say an already argo mob but that tank decided to attack the other mob..b:shocked0 -
Mad_Doc - Sanctuary wrote: »Hardship is the mother of innovation. Low lvl, undermanned, and low hp will force ppl to fight a boss a different way. One of the things I learned when I did krimson for example, you can figure out surprising methods to kill a boss. I did krimson with an archer and another cleric beside myself. Yes you don't need a barb and it is possible. b:chuckle I have also done krimson with a lvl 60 barb tanking.
LOL, i remember my krimson. Squad of 6 barbs, all trading aggro when turtle was on cooldown. What a fun day.It's too bad but "free to play, pay to win"-sckye
These "updates" are seeming more and more like downgrades.
aryannamage: Not PWE GM's they are all greedy b:angry0 -
Reikara - Heavens Tear wrote: »
Anyway, I have been helping quite a few nubs in the past, but from now i'm going to refuse. They need to start doing it the way we had to. I've seen too many fail barbs/clerics/archers/wizzies/venos/BMs.. the next generation of 90s looks grim :/QUOTE]
So you would count everyone that not yet leveled to 90+ by now are fail?
My main is a level 82 barb that tanked everything at own level except Jewel, krimson and polearm. I even tanked mantavip and gargantakong at own level just needed some tactics to learn. (read: more then 1 cleric and good timing of invoke/sunder ^^ )
I read up on my class before i started to swing in random stats and by own experience learned how to aggro tons of mobs in FB/BH just to make sure that the cleric gets no aggro on mobs ( and the cleric that i'm travelling with is my girlfriend who is level 66 atm )
Just last night we did BH69 with me and a other barb and only my girlfriend as a cleric. Yes i used invoke, sunder and ToP to get polearm done but she knew she needed to give it all to keep me alive, so she did.
I don't believe help from higher levels is always bad, but not when you see a quest pop up at a certain levvel and you want it done before even trying to do other quests first. I help my guildies once a week with their BH's and bosses just because i also feel the need to help others. Other days they know they need to do stuff on their own and they get a very angry vit build barb with high armageddon right in front of their noses if they whine about help :P
Just my two cents ^^0 -
Well i can be held accountable for asking for help from higher lvlers in my faction (what to do, being an archer with mediocre equips doesnt really give me much of a choice). This is only for the FBs and the one or two mini-bosses that I need to kill.
I at my current level did take the trouble to kill Aurum Bondswoman [59] to get 10 elemental essences when a higher level person couldve simply killed them easily or I couldve bought the stuff. Was a good learning experience since I had to figure out which sequence of skills was best suited for tacking this painful ranged magic attacker.
I wouldnt even mind if I can squad with people of my level but sadly most of them just give up before even trying for the fear of losing exp. Hence my only other option is high level players of my faction. Atleast for my FB runs they get some exp and rep which is the main reason they come in the first place apart from helping me.
The key to having good character control is to learn what each opponent is capable of and how they attack and move. Also learning from what you see others doing when they help you and try if similar tactics can be used by you. Maybe the player should try it alone after getting the help to see how they can tackle it. I usually do this once I level since I dont have to fear losing exp
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hehe I'm a high-level noob b:victory
We figured out how to beat rebirth beta @ level 60 & did that all the way through gamma. Been doing just CS + WQ the last two levels & gonna start doing delta on Saturday. My quest list is backlogged with over 90 quests (did FBs & cultis 'cause I had to >.>), I've only been in TT like 5 times (totally lame instance, would rather buy the gear), bothered to do the cube twice (sadness cards lol), and I haven't bothered to do any solo-questing... like since level 40.
I r no0b. b:bye0 -
I have to say that the higher I have advanced in this game, the quality of players at or near my level has significantly decreased, and I agree that too many people seem to simply buy their way through the game. I've met level 80-100 players who simply cannot function in an environment that requires actual skill in playing your character. I also suspect that due to the mass exodus of disgruntled long-time players, high-level accounts have been sold, passed over to friends, or given away to whoever answers first to a WC, etc., resulting in the same sort of scenario, where you have a person suddenly at a high level, but without all the skills and actual experience to back it up. This IS frustrating to those of us who do have the knowledge and skills that they lack, because I personally would rather have an empty slot in a squad, than fill it with someone who doesn't know what they are doing, regardless of level. Conversely, I would take a lower-level player in a squad for a mission that technically is too high for them, if they know how to play their character. Level is a factor, sure, but skill outweighs level in general.0
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I've noticed the trend in the increasing number of high level noobs, and waay undergeared high levels who then proceed to just go buy gold, sell it on ah, buy mats from ah, have gear. What's this teach them? I can buy my way through life. It's actually one of the most laughable things for me when I have to teach a level 8x veno how to pull when I'm doing a bh on one of my alts. And it's basically every run I go on that has a majority 8x or lower players there's at least one who has no idea how to play their class, lucky me, I researched and have a decent idea on how to advise them, but damn, that gets annoying. I prefer the following method:
- Run a low level TT with characters that should have no problem doing it, make them work harder than they would have had to with all characters their level.
- Create situations in which each class you're running with has to "learn their job" for the group to survive.
- Act like a complete idiot and run through 50 mobs by yourself, then QQ that you have no angels and the cost of you ressing to town is greater than their entire next level.
- Wear gear 30 levels below what you should be wearing for the instance you're entering
- Enter a bh with people begging high levels to do it for them make sure they have the classes they should, aggro the boss, wait for them to start hitting it, leave party and teleport out of instance.
Through these many ****-hole actions, you too can help to re-create the breed of quality players that those who have been here since the start should have become.
Post #69 I win![SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Another wall of text completed.0 - Run a low level TT with characters that should have no problem doing it, make them work harder than they would have had to with all characters their level.
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The amount of high level player I see who don't really have any true clue about how to work in a team astounds me, and I have every reason to believe that there are several causes for this.
The use of high level players is definitely one, and yet we need to remember that there are high level players out there who don't just run your FB for you then scatter to the four winds, but they actually talk to you. During my FB51, which was originally hard to find a team for because I have never had a faction to fall back on as such, the team I had were more than happy to talk with me. We discussed class roles, and suchlike. Of course by the 5x I was already confident in what I needed to do in a squad and how to do it, but it's nice to talk with older veterans about this sort of stuff too - they've seen so much more after all.
So while we have the silent types who come and stomp down a boss for you, I do think we should keep in mind some of these squads will happily talk to you if you make the effort in the first place, so we shouldn't point the finger at all the players who play in this particular way.
The second thing we've had lately are (and forgive me for bringing them up, let's keep this brief) things like the Aniv. Packs, the JJ event - things that make EXP easy to get. Esos were never hard to get hold of sometimes, and it's the same with Oracles. Now, yes, these aren't all year around, and these aren't necessarily the cause for all this noobness we see, but I'm confident enough to say that I'm sure they are a good portion of the reason why.
If you level up solely on the 500+ oracles you stocked up on, then you aren't going to know how to squad. If you grind up with an eso (excluding zhen, but even then things like zhen don't teach you how to work in an instance) then you might know how to solo, but do you learn your role in a team? Doubtful.
These sales all made it quite easy for players to stock up on ways to get "easy EXP" for, in several cases, relatively cheap. I have nothing against these sales at all, but they have helped produce a large number of noobs at the higher levels I fear.
And I now see it every day in squads I join with for BH. BHs are great for learning how to work in a team, but by the 4xs (when you're able to begin BHs) you should already have a vague idea on how to behave in an instance.
The fact that some of those doing the BH59 or BH69 with me in a random squad we get together can't even level the right skills, nevermind know how they should act in an instance, are all too telling of some of the issues some of the "higher level players" actually have.
And archer in their 7x should with no excuse have levelled Wings of Protection. Yes, I agree, spirit can get incredibly scarce, but one of your best and only buffs, that in some cases can mean the difference between life and death, and it's been left at level 3? What are these kids playing at?
Long post is long. =D Tl;dr is the likely outcome of this. xD However, for those who skipped this tl;dr read post, I won't summarise. I want to finish by saying no, I'm not the best archer on my server, and no, I'm not even really a veteran, and yes I should be a higher level given I started my gameplay in January at some point in time...
... But by comparison to some archers my level, and even a few of them above, I'm a damn good archer. ._.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Gotta be honest here, my mistakes and bad squad situations stand out in my mind way more than the high levels blowing through stuff sort of thing--isn't that what the game is all about? To be put in challenging situations and to learn from them? I'm not perfect, but I can confidently say that in a squad, I pull my own weight.
I was the highest level in all the factions I was in until about lvl 75, which meant lots of random wc groups during the lower levels and camping boss spawn sites until I found *someone* who could add me into their squad.
One memory stands out in particular: I was 4x waiting for gouf with another BM. We had no idea what we were doing, so we tried with him tanking and me healing. Of course, in 2 hits the BM was dead. The BM called on a veno from his faction who was in her 60s, and she volunteered to try to tank it. Tried once, Gouf got down to about 75% and then the pet died; Gouf got us all and we went to town. Tried again, this time health got even lower, pet died again. Both these situations resulted in Gouf killing the veno as well and me apologising for my low leveled rez (maxed as much as I could). The veno talked about how exp loss gets worse and worse as you go higher in level, but thanked me anyways and we kept trying different strategies. It ended up that we were able to join with another squad to do it, since we couldn't manage it on our own.
But at that point in the game, I had much admiration for the veno who kept trying for us, and how none of them got upset from the deaths. For awhile, I wanted to join their faction simply because of their niceness. I still remember her name to this day.
Those kinds of situations, the challenging ones, the ones where you learn your limits and learn how to play, and the fact that there was no faction to call upon, helped me to learn the mechanics of a squad. Teamwork makes this game fun, and I really think that if people were more willing to try things without a high leveled supersquad, the game would become much more interesting and rewarding [not to mention the fact that people need to loosen up about dying b:surrender]0 -
In Response to this High Class failure rate me and a few others will be starting a faction discouraging High lvl noobs and encouraging players to play out their class to full learn their potential in WHATEVER class they pick.
Guild name: Resolve
Server: Harshlands
-Mastering our classes is a goal. Our forums are already built and contain of info on builds, bosses and other instances (cube, rebirth, ect) although small atm we welcome suggestions and other guides!
-Everyone is encouraged to play at their own pace to fully understand the potential of their class. Best of all NO EXPERIENCE is asked, all we ask is that you are willing to take your time to learn the class. We do not want to be polluted with high lvl noobs.
-Will be running all instances as often as we can with the numbers we get.
-TWs are a goal for the long term future.
-Once we reach near capacity we will begin a simple activeness monitoring system to ensure that our members are still active in the game. This will not be too stressful and can easily remain in the guild with even the most casual play.
-Officer positions will be earned! No one will be granted the position because they are open. This means officers will be mature (no more "cry babies" or people that are control freaks)
-Both me (the director) and the leader are not going to tolerate any bs from any of our members and have already drawn out a set of rules that members must follow or they will be punished (kicking, demotion, and so on)
The faction will officially open in-game recruitment upon the release of the Rising Tide expansion. But have already begun trying to recruit members to join our forums and start to build a community.
Although only a small group at the moment we will build from the ground up ensuring a quality of player over quantity.
If you are interested please pm me here and I will give you more info as well as a way to get to our forums.
Sorry for the add but I figured it fit based on the forum title.Raging Tide Guild:resolvepwi.mmoguildsites.com
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
One thing that could help too: stop wining FB's and BH's. Just stop doing it. It's simple really. Just don't gather the mats, then don't go to the winemaker. When you get to the instance, don't talk to the Old Swordsman. Instead, work together as a squad to kill the mobs in there. For one, it amuses me to no end that, aside from the monetary waste, many people will spend an hour trying to organize the squad and wining situation, because 45 minutes to clear the run is "too much time". The second reason is that, regarding the topic, you are depriving yourself of the learning experience or practice. When you get to Frostland or Lunar Glade, Warsong, etc., what are you gonna do then? Can't wine those, and good luck in there if you haven't sharpened your skills.0
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SolomonSmash - Heavens Tear wrote: »One thing that could help too: stop wining FB's and BH's. Just stop doing it. It's simple really. Just don't gather the mats, then don't go to the winemaker. When you get to the instance, don't talk to the Old Swordsman. Instead, work together as a squad to kill the mobs in there. For one, it amuses me to no end that, aside from the monetary waste, many people will spend an hour trying to organize the squad and wining situation, because 45 minutes to clear the run is "too much time". The second reason is that, regarding the topic, you are depriving yourself of the learning experience or practice. When you get to Frostland or Lunar Glade, Warsong, etc., what are you gonna do then? Can't wine those, and good luck in there if you haven't sharpened your skills.
Agreed. .0 -
SolomonSmash - Heavens Tear wrote: »One thing that could help too: stop wining FB's and BH's. Just stop doing it. It's simple really. Just don't gather the mats, then don't go to the winemaker. When you get to the instance, don't talk to the Old Swordsman. Instead, work together as a squad to kill the mobs in there. For one, it amuses me to no end that, aside from the monetary waste, many people will spend an hour trying to organize the squad and wining situation, because 45 minutes to clear the run is "too much time". The second reason is that, regarding the topic, you are depriving yourself of the learning experience or practice. When you get to Frostland or Lunar Glade, Warsong, etc., what are you gonna do then? Can't wine those, and good luck in there if you haven't sharpened your skills.
2 venos and I were doing BH 79 unwined b:sweat. Half way through we agreed that having a cleric would be nice. b:laugh[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Closing this for excess letter Q's" - hawk0 -
SolomonSmash - Heavens Tear wrote: »One thing that could help too: stop wining FB's and BH's. Just stop doing it. It's simple really. Just don't gather the mats, then don't go to the winemaker. When you get to the instance, don't talk to the Old Swordsman. Instead, work together as a squad to kill the mobs in there. For one, it amuses me to no end that, aside from the monetary waste, many people will spend an hour trying to organize the squad and wining situation, because 45 minutes to clear the run is "too much time". The second reason is that, regarding the topic, you are depriving yourself of the learning experience or practice. When you get to Frostland or Lunar Glade, Warsong, etc., what are you gonna do then? Can't wine those, and good luck in there if you haven't sharpened your skills.
Fully agree. With squad who knows what to do you can easily finish bh69 in around 30min and bh79 (just Styg) in 15-25min.
Ok, at the beginning we consisted of players who squaded a lot and knew how each of us played, so we just rushed through bh69 cave and I needed to pull only bosses.
What keeps people from not wining them is that they might not know the other squad, that well. I tried to run unwined with almost fully random squad. Soon they waited on me to make the decision - to pull or attack. That run lasted almost an hour >.<0 -
SolomonSmash - Heavens Tear wrote: »One thing that could help too: stop wining FB's and BH's. Just stop doing it. It's simple really. Just don't gather the mats, then don't go to the winemaker. When you get to the instance, don't talk to the Old Swordsman. Instead, work together as a squad to kill the mobs in there. For one, it amuses me to no end that, aside from the monetary waste, many people will spend an hour trying to organize the squad and wining situation, because 45 minutes to clear the run is "too much time". The second reason is that, regarding the topic, you are depriving yourself of the learning experience or practice. When you get to Frostland or Lunar Glade, Warsong, etc., what are you gonna do then? Can't wine those, and good luck in there if you haven't sharpened your skills.
Agreed. b:victory
It's like the guy who spends 30 minutes turning their place upside down to find the TV remote instead of getting up and manually changing the channel. Except, with this case, others end up paying for it too. (I'm assuming he lives alone and/or cleaned up the mess he made looking. Lol.)b:bye RETIRED0
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