Venos are rated last in drop shares?!
Reikara - Heavens Tear
Posts: 1,321 Arc User
I just went on a TT2-3 run and it really pissed me off.
Ok, I've never done a full TT2-3 before, but hey.. I'm not being
used to treated like i'm just some replaceable DD, cus I know i'm not.
Our drop shares were prioritsed by this:
Blademaster 8x - Subber.
Barbarian 9x- Tank.
Cleric 9x- Tank healer.
Cleric 9x- Tank/squad healer.
Archer 9x- DD
Venomancer 9x- Herc tank/ Sub tank (fox form, if barb died)/ Lurer/ DD/Debuffer.
Venomancers play a very important role in TTs and we're not just fricking pullers/DDs most of the time. If anything went wrong with the boss, my herc or myself would've stepped in for aggro until the barb got back on his feet. If any of the squishys took aggro by the mobs spawned, my herc and myself were tanking them.
Venomancers make the runs possible half of the time, make them much faster (from debuffs and amp) and run much more smoother. No other class can pull safely like we do. (If done right.) Not to mention, my fricking weapon was almost at breaking point by the end of it, had to spend most of the time DDing fox form. The clerics didn't get anywhere near as much endurance loss as I did.
I've had a couple venomancer friends tell me from their runs of how they were also rated last in drop shares. First time it's ever happened to me and I can't express how angry I am. I spent hours in there and came out with nothing that I needed for it.
End rant.
Ok, I've never done a full TT2-3 before, but hey.. I'm not being
used to treated like i'm just some replaceable DD, cus I know i'm not.
Our drop shares were prioritsed by this:
Blademaster 8x - Subber.
Barbarian 9x- Tank.
Cleric 9x- Tank healer.
Cleric 9x- Tank/squad healer.
Archer 9x- DD
Venomancer 9x- Herc tank/ Sub tank (fox form, if barb died)/ Lurer/ DD/Debuffer.
Venomancers play a very important role in TTs and we're not just fricking pullers/DDs most of the time. If anything went wrong with the boss, my herc or myself would've stepped in for aggro until the barb got back on his feet. If any of the squishys took aggro by the mobs spawned, my herc and myself were tanking them.
Venomancers make the runs possible half of the time, make them much faster (from debuffs and amp) and run much more smoother. No other class can pull safely like we do. (If done right.) Not to mention, my fricking weapon was almost at breaking point by the end of it, had to spend most of the time DDing fox form. The clerics didn't get anywhere near as much endurance loss as I did.
I've had a couple venomancer friends tell me from their runs of how they were also rated last in drop shares. First time it's ever happened to me and I can't express how angry I am. I spent hours in there and came out with nothing that I needed for it.
End rant.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by Reikara - Heavens Tear on
0
Comments
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Simple solution , Solo TT.
your placing WAY to much on a veno for TT im not trying to be rude or anything but you kinda are a replaceable DD.
Suuuuure you can lure , but so can fairys .....Suuuuure you can Lay a few D buffs if you remember but so can BM's Barbs and fairys.
To be totally honest ive ran maybe 2 TT's total with a veno most of the time i pick a wizard over veno for shear power DD's.
Second simple solution would be to join a guild that does TT runs so you all get a fair share.
I dont know how many times ive been last to get sht when i provided the subs and most of the time extra pots pills for others (and im not a veno -.-)[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Everything is based on mind, is led by mind, is fashioned by mind. If you speak and act with a pure mind, happiness will follow you, as a shadow clings to a form.0 -
I hate solo. It takes me forever and it's effing boring. Much rather do it with friends, get it done within a small time frame (dont have forever) and get the things we need.
I'm not a normal arcane veno either. I'm heavy. I've saved squishy butts by tanking mobs (on me, not my herc.) so many times. What arcane venos can do that?
Fairys work, to a certain point. You've gotta be able to be withing range, sometimes it's completly ludacris, and often is in TT runs. Especially with mobs/bosses.
BMs can't purge bosses, wizzes can't amp bosses and cut the time in half. Neither can stop them regenerating HP. Neither can send the tank chi. Wizards cant tank mobs/bosses if tanks fail. BMs can, to a certain point. I make a better tank than BMs most of the time. Higher def, same HP. Wizzies/BMs can't out damage me and my herc in TT.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
i agree with the solo TT statment, but venos are the only class who know how to lure properly, also sure wizards can deal more damage then venos, but if they take agro their dead. vanos also have more debuffs (normal & fox form) than wizards, so i agree with Reikara's statement that venos shouldnt be last in drop shares (don't know who should be either lol)LordChronis - Dreamweaver wrote: »Simple solution , Solo TT.
your placing WAY to much on a veno for TT im not trying to be rude or anything but you kinda are a replaceable DD.
Suuuuure you can lure , but so can fairys .....Suuuuure you can Lay a few D buffs if you remember but so can BM's Barbs and fairys.
To be totally honest ive ran maybe 2 TT's total with a veno most of the time i pick a wizard over veno for shear power DD's.
Second simple solution would be to join a guild that does TT runs so you all get a fair share.
I dont know how many times ive been last to get sht when i provided the subs and most of the time extra pots pills for others (and im not a veno -.-)[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
A good moderator should:
- Have the computer skills necessary to handle forum-related tasks (Web skills, basic programming)
- Be patient to handle all sorts of requests
- Be level-headed to keep discussions and some petty squabbles in check.b:cool0 -
This is why I like the faction I'm in. On a TT run, if you need the mat you get the mat. If you don't need it you don't get it until everyone else who needs it has it. No greed allowed.Main characters
Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
Sage Barbarian Malego - 910 -
Reikara - Heavens Tear wrote: »I hate solo. It takes me forever and it's effing boring. Much rather do it with friends, get it done within a small time frame (dont have forever) and get the things we need.
I'm not a normal arcane veno either. I'm heavy. I've saved squishy butts by tanking mobs (on me, not my herc.) so many times. What arcane venos can do that?
Fairys work, to a certain point. You've gotta be able to be withing range, sometimes it's completly ludacris, and often is in TT runs. Especially with mobs/bosses.
BMs can't purge bosses, wizzes can't amp bosses and cut the time in half. Neither can stop them regenerating HP. Neither can send the tank chi. Wizards cant tank mobs/bosses if tanks fail. BMs can, to a certain point. I make a better tank than BMs most of the time. Higher def, same HP. Wizzies/BMs can't out damage me and my herc in TT.
Sadly since genies came into the picture, veno's are thought of more for DD/Debuffs. Unless your with friends, or a Guild who will treat you like you wanted to be treated, normal pug groups will just see you as a DD.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
A Knight is sworn to Valor. His heart knows only Virtue. His blade defends the helpless. His might upholds the weak. His words speaks only truth. His wrath undoes the wicked.0 -
+1 i do the same thing with the faction, thats how i got my TT60 weapon
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
A good moderator should:
- Have the computer skills necessary to handle forum-related tasks (Web skills, basic programming)
- Be patient to handle all sorts of requests
- Be level-headed to keep discussions and some petty squabbles in check.b:cool0 -
LordChronis - Dreamweaver wrote: »Simple solution , Solo TT.
your placing WAY to much on a veno for TT im not trying to be rude or anything but you kinda are a replaceable DD.
Suuuuure you can lure , but so can fairys .....Suuuuure you can Lay a few D buffs if you remember but so can BM's Barbs and fairys.
To be totally honest ive ran maybe 2 TT's total with a veno most of the time i pick a wizard over veno for shear power DD's.
Second simple solution would be to join a guild that does TT runs so you all get a fair share.
I dont know how many times ive been last to get sht when i provided the subs and most of the time extra pots pills for others (and im not a veno -.-)
you have no clue, veno's role in a TT is way more useful than a bm/wizard/archer.Veno's pet ALONE > archer/wizard/bm dmg on a [?] boss so overall dmg of pet + veno > 15 lvl higher DD of anothe class.
venos should definitly get before DDs :
-better lurer more accurate and organized than 'genie'. Try higher lvl TTs and u will see.
-DD much harder than any class on TT bosses(pet doesnt suffer thex0.25 dmg reduction).
-Their debuffs are much much stronger than the genie ones(-30% def +20 dmg recived for 20 seconds and it STACKs with the genie).
-they can give chi + bramle the tank (bramble reflects more dmg than a player dmg+ it KEEPS AGRO)
when i used to TT even tho i was the bank i used to give the VENO before than myself. subber/tank/clerics/VENOS/DDs0 -
Reikara - Heavens Tear wrote: »I'm not a normal arcane veno either. I'm heavy. I've saved squishy butts by tanking mobs (on me, not my herc.) so many times. What arcane venos can do that?
.
I didn't see this part before. I am an arcane veno that can do that!b:victory
I've tanked frost bosses in foxform as well as a TT boss (wurlord) when the barb died.Main characters
Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
Sage Barbarian Malego - 910 -
Are you guise fer realz?
Don't you understand the difference between an non debuffed run and a debuffed one? x.X
Amplify and pdef/mdef breaks/poisons/bleeds ect make everything go so much faster.
Even if that's all venos are to you, it's still a damn lot. And I'm yet to find a boss that can be pulled out of it's minions by a genie =/
Lol I tanked frost bosses too, pissed me off when the cleric didn't heal me. My charm tanked it -.-[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Yodenreal - Heavens Tear wrote: »you have no clue, veno's role in a TT is way more useful than a bm/wizard/archer.Veno's pet ALONE > archer/wizard/bm dmg on a [?] boss so overall dmg of pet + veno > 15 lvl higher DD of anothe class.
venos should definitly get before DDs :
-better lurer more accurate and organized than 'genie'. Try higher lvl TTs and u will see.
-DD much harder than any class on TT bosses(pet doesnt suffer thex0.25 dmg reduction).
-Their debuffs are much much stronger than the genie ones(-30% def +20 dmg recived for 20 seconds and it STACKs with the genie).
-they can give chi + bramle the tank (bramble reflects more dmg than a player dmg+ it KEEPS AGRO)
when i used to TT even tho i was the bank i used to give the VENO before than myself. subber/tank/clerics/VENOS/DDs
QQ me a river will ya.
I know what there role should be, but be real the ratio of HA venos is maybe 1 to 10 AA venos till 90+ so most of them taking the agro off the Squishes (Bm's job) isnt there .
Yeah they have Amp damage and Ironwood scarb and can shoot chi, tho if they want to keep constant chi Ironwood is out of the picture most of the time unless you have chi pills super **** channel rate or chi gaining fairy skill.
If the barb doesnt suck they dont lose agro least non of the ones ive TT'd with, like i said 2 runs out of dozens ive had a veno.
dont whine to me cause you like the class i just called it like i saw it get over it and QQ to someonelse or TT with this veno stfu and let her have the drops b:bye[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Everything is based on mind, is led by mind, is fashioned by mind. If you speak and act with a pure mind, happiness will follow you, as a shadow clings to a form.0 -
Reikara - Heavens Tear wrote: »
Venomancers play a very important role in TTs and we're not just fricking pullers/DDs most of the time. If anything went wrong with the boss, my herc or myself would've stepped in for aggro until the barb got back on his feet. If any of the squishys took aggro by the mobs spawned, my herc and myself were tanking them.
Venomancers make the runs possible half of the time, make them much faster (from debuffs and amp) and run much more smoother.
...
First time it's ever happened to me and I can't express how angry I am. I spent hours in there and came out with nothing that I needed for it.
End rant.
I completely understand how you feel, Reikara. I remember being on a TT1-2 run with my ex-faction and after 2 hours I spent in there, I only got an ancient serpent skin lol (worth like what? 200k? I can so make 300k+ in an hour grinding-___- needless to mention the exp I could have gained while grinding)
People really put too less respect on venos, a good example would be the one commented right below you.
The very last frostcovered run I've been to, a bm told me that veno does pretty much nothing but stand pretty. I was very angry... but something soon happened.
At the room after Oceania Master, there were some Glacix Dragons and some black maids. Our zhen group failed and everyone except me and the bm survived. The bm ran around with 1/10 of his hp left with 3 glacix dragons following him.
BM: Dude get it off me.
Me: o.O?
BM: Do something!
Me: But but but... I am doing something... I am standing pretty like you said b:sad -changes fashion-
BM: -Glacix Dragon stabbed him again and he died- Insert random curse words here.LordChronis - Dreamweaver wrote: »Simple solution , Solo TT.
your placing WAY to much on a veno for TT im not trying to be rude or anything but you kinda are a replaceable DD.
Suuuuure you can lure , but so can fairys .....Suuuuure you can Lay a few D buffs if you remember but so can BM's Barbs and fairys.
To be totally honest ive ran maybe 2 TT's total with a veno most of the time i pick a wizard over veno for shear power DD's.
Second simple solution would be to join a guild that does TT runs so you all get a fair share.
I dont know how many times ive been last to get sht when i provided the subs and most of the time extra pots pills for others (and im not a veno -.-)
Sure xD Go ahead and do all of your runs without venos. Use your genie's stamina to lure
One suggestion for you xD Don't post in veno forum when you do not respect venos.Moved to WoW b:bye0 -
Sure xD Go ahead and do all of your runs without venos. Use your genie's stamina to lure[/QUOTE]
I've yet to have a problem yet lol b:victory[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Everything is based on mind, is led by mind, is fashioned by mind. If you speak and act with a pure mind, happiness will follow you, as a shadow clings to a form.0 -
Reikara - Heavens Tear wrote: »Are you guise fer realz?
Don't you understand the difference between an non debuffed run and a debuffed one? x.X
Amplify and pdef/mdef breaks/poisons/bleeds ect make everything go so much faster.
Even if that's all venos are to you, it's still a damn lot. And I'm yet to find a boss that can be pulled out of it's minions by a genie =/
Lol I tanked frost bosses too, pissed me off when the cleric didn't heal me. My charm tanked it -.-
Best solution for you is sub the run, so you get first pick, go with people you trust to use the subber gets first pick. Sadly people will not change their minds, friends, and good guild mates will give you what you want, other than that you will be a DD. I know what your saying, but that is how things are with some people, I for one run with my wife who is a veno all the time, we both sub and I always give her first pick, then again I tank everything we do. :P [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
A Knight is sworn to Valor. His heart knows only Virtue. His blade defends the helpless. His might upholds the weak. His words speaks only truth. His wrath undoes the wicked.0 -
Lolite - Heavens Tear wrote: »The very last frostcovered run I've been to, a bm told me that veno does pretty much nothing but stand pretty. I was very angry... but something soon happened.
At the room after Oceania Master, there were some Glacix Dragons and some black maids. Our zhen group failed and everyone except me and the bm survived. The bm ran around with 1/10 of his hp left with 3 glacix dragons following him.
BM: Dude get it off me.
Me: o.O?
BM: Do something!
Me: But but but... I am doing something... I am standing pretty like you said b:sad -changes fashion-
BM: -Glacix Dragon stabbed him again and he died- Insert random curse words here.
Somehow I feel that would have been more effective if you had proceeded to show him how venos do more than stand pretty....b:chuckle[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"aadi is a forum ninja, always there, skirting thru the shadows... striking with quick posts while you are distracted by your own" -Alexeno(kin)
"We talk about you because you're fab. b:cute" -Chillum
"You live for forums. Like seriously."0 -
LordChronis - Dreamweaver wrote: »QQ me a river will ya.
I know what there role should be, but be real the ratio of HA venos is maybe 1 to 10 AA venos till 90+ so most of them taking the agro off the Squishes (Bm's job) isnt there .
Yeah they have Amp damage and Ironwood scarb and can shoot chi, tho if they want to keep constant chi Ironwood is out of the picture most of the time unless you have chi pills super **** channel rate or chi gaining fairy skill.
If the barb doesnt suck they dont lose agro least non of the ones ive TT'd with, like i said 2 runs out of dozens ive had a veno.
dont whine to me cause you like the class i just called it like i saw it get over it and QQ to someonelse or TT with this veno stfu and let her have the drops b:bye
I really hate seeing this used, and I still have to say it....I really don't think some people have any idea how to use "QQ".
That aside, I don't know any class that can output more damage than a veno in TT, as has been stated, because the pets do not suffer a damage reduction. So all other agruments aside, I see no reason to put them below any other DD, aside from the constant veno hatred that abounds in this game.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The family is a haven in a heartless world.
Once a Guardian, Always a Guardian. Element: Fire.0 -
LordChronis - Dreamweaver wrote: »QQ me a river will ya.
I know what there role should be, but be real the ratio of HA venos is maybe 1 to 10 AA venos till 90+ so most of them taking the agro off the Squishes (Bm's job) isnt there .
Arcane venos take aggro with pets. They dont have to be heavy. Being heavy just means that there's two tanks in one.
Yeah they have Amp damage and Ironwood scarb and can shoot chi, tho if they want to keep constant chi Ironwood is out of the picture most of the time unless you have chi pills super **** channel rate or chi gaining fairy skill.
You dont know anything about venomancers do you?
I can use ironwood many times and still have en ough chi for when lending hand is cooled down. I can also use a pdef debuff by another skill, myriad rainbow. This one is much stronger, it reduces the enemie's pdef to 0.
I can also start hitting in fox form, my melee form. I get chi super fast. Oh, I also have a sage skill for 50 chi per minute.
If the barb doesnt suck they dont lose agro least non of the ones ive TT'd with, like i said 2 runs out of dozens ive had a veno.
Barbs don't have to suck to loose aggro. Archers will steal no matter what. Wizards 90+ can crit like mofos. Mobs can spawn, things go wrong no matter how pro you are.
dont whine to me cause you like the class i just called it like i saw it get over it and QQ to someonelse or TT with this veno stfu and let her have the drops b:bye
I dont understand this part. I cant make sense of it.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Aadi - Lost City wrote: »Somehow I feel that would have been more effective if you had proceeded to show him how venos do more than stand pretty....b:chuckle
You're too nice lol Why should I save him when he did not even respect me >_>?Moved to WoW b:bye0 -
Lolite - Heavens Tear wrote: »You're too nice lol Why should I save him when he did not even respect me >_>?
So he realized what venos can do instead of thinking that they just "stand pretty" and come to respect venos in general?
I am too nice. That's why I'm a cleric b:cute[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"aadi is a forum ninja, always there, skirting thru the shadows... striking with quick posts while you are distracted by your own" -Alexeno(kin)
"We talk about you because you're fab. b:cute" -Chillum
"You live for forums. Like seriously."0 -
I actually agree with Aadi .. to an extent. I'd save him when it's a little too late. Then survive/kill off the rest of the mobs.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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Nah, let him die. If he already thinks that, he will not change his mind, he will attribute it to "his bad luck" or blame the Cleric. But he will not give credit to the veno. Been in parties like that, and that is what happened.
Regarding TT, I pretty much only do runs with guild members, so the mats get distributed by need. Rest goes to faction bank. The few times I do them with other friends, we go by player level, after the subber.
So whoever subbed gets first pick, after that is by player level. To me, that shows a mature squad, that knows how all the classes work together and that they are all equaly important.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
It was with my guild +one friend. The guild i'm in is pretty awesome, lots of TT runs all the time. Just happened to be with different guild mates this time who rate class/role over need. The barb and subber walked away with 2 antennas they sold which I desperatly need =/
We had always just done it by need/subber/then level (whoever was closest to needing/using mats). It just struck me as completly different to have done it by class and the roles they played. It really pissed me off, each class is just as important as the other. And being rated last because I debuff is BS <.<[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »Nah, let him die. If he already thinks that, he will not change his mind, he will attribute it to "his bad luck" or blame the Cleric. But he will not give credit to the veno. Been in parties like that, and that is what happened.
Regarding TT, I pretty much only do runs with guild members, so the mats get distributed by need. Rest goes to faction bank. The few times I do them with other friends, we go by player level, after the subber.
So whoever subbed gets first pick, after that is by player level. To me, that shows a mature squad, that knows how all the classes work together and that they are all equaly important.
this is true, but what if your not in a faction, or better yet, your faction is a bunch of jerks lol (not saying mine is just asking)[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
A good moderator should:
- Have the computer skills necessary to handle forum-related tasks (Web skills, basic programming)
- Be patient to handle all sorts of requests
- Be level-headed to keep discussions and some petty squabbles in check.b:cool0 -
Krisnda - Lost City wrote: »this is true, but what if your not in a faction, or better yet, your faction is a bunch of jerks lol (not saying mine is just asking)
Than it is time to go find a new faction.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
If you desire a venos help:
1) take into consideration that they don't need you and even taking 3rd place in drops is doing you a favor. Half the time I'm asked for help, I'm the one stuck waiting. b:angry
2) Bosses go much faster with a veno for reasons already mentioned. If I were to duo a TT: I'd want another veno first, then a cleric or wiz for healing (free mp for venos).
3) Quit hating on venos for being wealthy. Because Veno is such a popular role: all your sage/demon skills are cheap while ours are expensive. Yours are cheap because we solo FBs for them, ours are expensive because there's much higher competition for them. We are also wealthier because we level our pets which keeps us from almost solely using dailies to level. We learn to conserve and earn by having the legendary pets in our faces til we acquire them. I have a Wiz alt (84) that has much less expenses and near the same earning potential. -No excuses for all mage classes.
4) If a cleric goes out of their way to res you: PAY THEM SOMETHING FOR IT! -This goes along with the lines of expecting other classes to do everything for you like many do to Venos! Hercs cost big coin, res levels cost big coin.
Somehow barbs got people convinced that they deserve a prime spot on the drops choosing -which they do. When it comes to venos: people like to shaft them.Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0 -
@Reikara - You are welcome to come and join our little faction if you want. For the most part, things run pretty smoodly.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0
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Reikara - Heavens Tear wrote: »I just went on a TT2-3 run and it really pissed me off.
Ok, I've never done a full TT2-3 before, but hey.. I'm not being
used to treated like i'm just some replaceable DD, cus I know i'm not.
Our drop shares were prioritsed by this:
Blademaster 8x - Subber.
Barbarian 9x- Tank.
Cleric 9x- Tank healer.
Cleric 9x- Tank/squad healer.
Archer 9x- DD
Venomancer 9x- Herc tank/ Sub tank (fox form, if barb died)/ Lurer/ DD/Debuffer.
Venomancers play a very important role in TTs and we're not just fricking pullers/DDs most of the time. If anything went wrong with the boss, my herc or myself would've stepped in for aggro until the barb got back on his feet. If any of the squishys took aggro by the mobs spawned, my herc and myself were tanking them.
Venomancers make the runs possible half of the time, make them much faster (from debuffs and amp) and run much more smoother. No other class can pull safely like we do. (If done right.) Not to mention, my fricking weapon was almost at breaking point by the end of it, had to spend most of the time DDing fox form. The clerics didn't get anywhere near as much endurance loss as I did.
I've had a couple venomancer friends tell me from their runs of how they were also rated last in drop shares. First time it's ever happened to me and I can't express how angry I am. I spent hours in there and came out with nothing that I needed for it.
End rant.
I'm not sure what kind of squad you had... but normally when I'm in a group for TT, I'm never last. Even if I didn't sub. With the people I've gone with (yes even from world chatted groups), they went DDs by level of which I was counted as a DD. I've gone before wizards and blademasters and archers that didn't sub the run because of my level at the time. Also, never heard of doing need before subber.... its always been Subber/Tank/Clerics by level (or who bb'ed most)/DDs by level. At least always been that way in groups I've been in.
I for one have been replaced numerous times by people with genies that can pull. The Zeal genie's initial skill acts just fine for luring a mob singelly. You have to understand, most people don't realize that our pets aren't nerfed in damage in an instance, therefore think we are expendable regardless of our debuffs and pets.
I disagree with you on the bleed aspect. A BMs bleed outdamages, and stays on longer than a pets bleed. As a veno, the only bleed we get is either from a melee weapon (if we are heavy), our pets flesh ream, or the chance with myraid rainbow. That being said, they do not stack that I know of, so the bleed doesn't amp that way. Also, BMs can double bleed, they have 2 bleed skills draw blood and piercing winds. They stack with each other so bleed is increased.
BMs also get glacial spike if they have any skills in spear tree. That does mind and armor reduction (mag def/armor def). It lasts longer than our breaks with myraid rainbow, granted ironwood (non-sage/demon) does 30% reduction of phys def, the glacial spike lands everytime and at max level does a 50% of phys and mag def reductions. Other than myraid rainbow and a pet skill, we have no way to debuff the mag def of a mob. Talking mag def, not just wood resist for demon venos.
As for BMs having an amp damage, they have heaven's flame. That doesn't last nearly as long as a venos amp damage, but its still an amp. Heaven's Flame, at level 10 does 100% amp, compared to level 10 veno amp which does only 20% extra damage.
Sage BM skill of Fissure, reduces fire resistance 30% for 8 seconds.
As for wizards amping damage, if they use extreme poison genie skill, it can amplify damage.
Wizards can decrease the accuracy of a boss, just like our befuddling mist. However our's decreases accuracy by about 20% more at both levels maxed (wizard skill and veno skill being both).
Wizards have debuffs also. For example if they have their 79 skill Undine Strike, they can reduce water, fire, and earth resistances by 60% for 12 seconds. May not seem like much, but that allows them to amp their damage as they deal water, fire, and earth. Venos also have a water and fire damage attack. Frost scarab and blazing scarab. So Wizard debuffs coupled with a venos attacks are great damage.
Archers have Sharpened Tooth Arrow. At level 10, this reduces target's hp by 16% for 30 seconds. Only time a veno gets that is if we have a genie skill. But if I recall, it can only be used in water at the moment. So not having an archer use this would be a waste as its something we cannot do.
Thunder shock, archer skill, decreases metal resistance (at level 10) by 50% for 15 seconds. So they hit harder during that time with their metal attacks as does a cleric using any metal skills (and coupled with their metal mastery = high damage).
(all referenced http://www.ecatomb.net/skillpwi.php ).
Yes I know that pet damage isn't nerfed. But there are plenty of reasons why people take one or more of these DDs along. I agree with you though, it shouldn't be based on class, as we can be considered a DD as well, not just there for debuffs. However to say that classes cannot produce the damage we can (removing pets from the equation) wouldn't be a fair statement, as I think the skills I've listed above show the other DD classes having decent skills. Also, to say that we are just there for debuffs wouldn't be a fair statement either so I agree people need to give us more credit._Jaysun_'s Wife
Heaven's Tear--
Retired
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
For all those that told me Lunar Gold wasn't worth the hassle of farming... but now have the Nirvana versions... I laugh at you. Hypocrites.0 -
You have to remember many other people playing different classes perceive venos as OP and huge money makers, and therefore try to abuse and cut them short in any way possible.
Its just how it is; I've gotten used to it.0 -
LordChronis - Dreamweaver wrote: »QQ me a river will ya.
I know what there role should be, but be real the ratio of HA venos is maybe 1 to 10 AA venos till 90+ so most of them taking the agro off the Squishes (Bm's job) isnt there .
Yeah they have Amp damage and Ironwood scarb and can shoot chi, tho if they want to keep constant chi Ironwood is out of the picture most of the time unless you have chi pills super **** channel rate or chi gaining fairy skill.
If the barb doesnt suck they dont lose agro least non of the ones ive TT'd with, like i said 2 runs out of dozens ive had a veno.
dont whine to me cause you like the class i just called it like i saw it get over it and QQ to someonelse or TT with this veno stfu and let her have the drops b:bye
i really dont know what to say .. you post was written by a 9 year old child
ok w/e im QQing to u and whining to u , just b:shutup and good luck in ur school hope u can learn how to make a point ?b:thanks0 -
Reikara - Heavens Tear wrote: »I just went on a TT2-3 run and it really pissed me off.
Ok, I've never done a full TT2-3 before, but hey.. I'm not being
used to treated like i'm just some replaceable DD, cus I know i'm not.
Our drop shares were prioritsed by this:
Blademaster 8x - Subber.
Barbarian 9x- Tank.
Cleric 9x- Tank healer.
Cleric 9x- Tank/squad healer.
Archer 9x- DD
Venomancer 9x- Herc tank/ Sub tank (fox form, if barb died)/ Lurer/ DD/Debuffer.
Venomancers play a very important role in TTs and we're not just fricking pullers/DDs most of the time. If anything went wrong with the boss, my herc or myself would've stepped in for aggro until the barb got back on his feet. If any of the squishys took aggro by the mobs spawned, my herc and myself were tanking them.
Venomancers make the runs possible half of the time, make them much faster (from debuffs and amp) and run much more smoother. No other class can pull safely like we do. (If done right.) Not to mention, my fricking weapon was almost at breaking point by the end of it, had to spend most of the time DDing fox form. The clerics didn't get anywhere near as much endurance loss as I did.
I've had a couple venomancer friends tell me from their runs of how they were also rated last in drop shares. First time it's ever happened to me and I can't express how angry I am. I spent hours in there and came out with nothing that I needed for it.
End rant.
The rule I usually see on dw is:
subber (if barbarian/cleric)
barbarians in order of level
clerics in order of level
subber (if any other class)
other classes in order of level
To say it pisses me off is an understatement. I've done 2-3's and 3-1's that have had level 65 clerics along because they're someones friend and we had the spot, with them playing second cleric and only being expected to debuff/nuke (or preferably RB, but they wouldn't) and they go above not just venos but all dps. The logic is that barbs/clerics have higher costs than other classes and as a result should be compensated more. The reality of the rule is that it causes other classes to perform only to the level that they can afford. Venos can burn a constant amount of mana equal to a cleric in BB if using myriad often, you're never going to see compensation for that. Archers use mana for skills and have a bunch of overfill on mana using potions so charms really do make good choices for them. Wizards are going to tick a mana charm more than clerics if you want good damage from them, BM's... I can't comment on, I've never seen a good one in TT runs.
The other part of the mentality is that barbs/clerics are vital while dps is optional (this is also part of why you often see 2 clerics), my MMO background has taught me differently however and PW isn't all that different when it comes to these ideas, other than it has less randomness. Survival is a binary number basically, either you can or you can't survive, there isn't any real x% chance to just flat out die from freak damage every y second interval. Once your squad can survive the only thing that's important is more dps. Most people don't seem to understand this though._River - Heavens Tear wrote: »I disagree with you on the bleed aspect. A BMs bleed outdamages, and stays on longer than a pets bleed. As a veno, the only bleed we get is either from a melee weapon (if we are heavy), our pets flesh ream, or the chance with myraid rainbow. That being said, they do not stack that I know of, so the bleed doesn't amp that way. Also, BMs can double bleed, they have 2 bleed skills draw blood and piercing winds. They stack with each other so bleed is increased.
Wizards can decrease the accuracy of a boss, just like our befuddling mist. However our's decreases accuracy by about 20% more at both levels maxed (wizard skill and veno skill being both).
Archers have Sharpened Tooth Arrow. At level 10, this reduces target's hp by 16% for 30 seconds. Only time a veno gets that is if we have a genie skill. But if I recall, it can only be used in water at the moment. So not having an archer use this would be a waste as its something we cannot do.
Just picking out those 3 points.
I'm pretty sure bleed will stack. The reason I think this is because I've tested it using blazing scarab with friends, with different levels of blazing and they would stack. Since one skill stacks with others using it, logic stands that others would as well. Only damage stacking appears to take the most recent effect. The icons do bug out however, so you can't trust the dot icons on the mob, you have to go by the damage numbers you see above it but since dot ticks are far less than normal hits, it's not too difficult to tell them apart.
It's a 75% difference for accuracy, theirs tops out at 40%, ours at 70%. Or to put it another way, theirs*1.75=ours.
Venos get access to the sharptooth debuff from two methods, the first any class can get, it's a level 14 genie skill called ice blast and maxes out at 10%. 1% per rank, the first rank is 60, then every 5 levels from there, with the last 2 levels at 100, it pales in comparison to sharptooth though. The other method is from soul degeneration if sage. Archer/demon archer=16%, sage archer=20%, veno/demon veno=0%, sage veno=20%. Not all venos are going to go sage though, and of the ones that do not all will have this skill while all archers have at least 16% with very few having 20% as the vast majority of them go demon.
Ohh, one more edit to legthen this wall of text.Hisuna - Sanctuary wrote: »I really hate seeing this used, and I still have to say it....I really don't think some people have any idea how to use "QQ".
That aside, I don't know any class that can output more damage than a veno in TT, as has been stated, because the pets do not suffer a damage reduction. So all other agruments aside, I see no reason to put them below any other DD, aside from the constant veno hatred that abounds in this game.
Even without the ability of pets to avoid damage reduction the first veno in a squad would be more damage than anyone else. This is due to ironwood, armor breaks, mind breaks, amplify, sage sd, bramble (whee demon bramble), and so on. The amount of indirect damage we do (indirect, attributable, another name... take your pick) is huge. A second veno will only have a chance to outdamage a wiz/archer through the pet stuff, but adding that first veno to a squad , especially one that runs with 1 barb/cleric+4 dps is going to add an insane amount of damage if they know how to play properly.0 -
I don't think I've ever had this type of issue. But then again I never do HH / TT outside of my guild. Being the highest level in my guild and having tons of others needing mats, I bought my TT weapon (and armor at 90) since 70. I never usually need any other mat in lower TT due to my level.
My runs always consist of at least one person who needs it or more. The one who subs it gets priority, and the remaining mats no one needs goes to faction bank. Maybe I'm just semi lucky to have members who are doing runs for each other and don't mind being generous / helpful.
In recent profit runs I've been doing in an attempt to get money for skills, we don't distribute depending on class, we equally split. My faction loves venos in TT, we don't really discriminate.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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