Life Powder cancling

2

Comments

  • Fabric - Lost City
    Fabric - Lost City Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    I say, PK them on first sight.
  • /Alex/ - Sanctuary
    /Alex/ - Sanctuary Posts: 78 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    while battle only 50% of the normal regeneration

    while in battle, hp&mp regen rate is reduced to 1/4 (0.25%) of it's normal rate
  • emperorsword
    emperorsword Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    I think, you don't want to understand the main advantage of Life Powder.

    After you grinded maybe 4,5,6 monsters with a Barb or a BM you just sit down and rest maybe 10-20 seconds and have already Full HP again.


    That is, what it makes so useful.

    The funny part only starts:

    For Barbarians and BM's it might be a good balance up, but for Archers or clerics Life Powder might be even much more useful when they grind solo, cause then the HP Regeneration takes even more effect.

    A Barbarian might have 20-30 HP Regeneration while sitting. That's because a Barb has enough Vit, Total HP which increases the HP Regeneration.
    It still is a problem, cause the barb also have to regenerate much more HP, but well that's why I call it a balance up for tanking classes.

    Now think of an Archer with Life Powder. An Archer has a high dodge rate, hits better and deals good dmg.
    But an Archer lags on Total HP and HP Regeneration. So Life Powder balances the few Hits from monsters very good.
    Well it isn't necessary, cause the Archer has a lot of advantages throughout the own class, but with additional Life Powder - think about how useful that can be (by 100 HP/s while short rests).
  • Brael - Dreamweaver
    Brael - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,430 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    Life Powder+Soul Degeneration=life is good.
  • /Alex/ - Sanctuary
    /Alex/ - Sanctuary Posts: 78 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    I think, you don't want to understand the main advantage of Life Powder.

    After you grinded maybe 4,5,6 monsters with a Barb or a BM you just sit down and rest maybe 10-20 seconds and have already Full HP again.


    That is, what it makes so useful.

    The funny part only starts:

    For Barbarians and BM's it might be a good balance up, but for Archers or clerics Life Powder might be even much more useful when they grind solo, cause then the HP Regeneration takes even more effect.

    A Barbarian might have 20-30 HP Regeneration while sitting. That's because a Barb has enough Vit, Total HP which increases the HP Regeneration.
    It still is a problem, cause the barb also have to regenerate much more HP, but well that's why I call it a balance up for tanking classes.

    Now think of an Archer with Life Powder. An Archer has a high dodge rate, hits better and deals good dmg.
    But an Archer lags on Total HP and HP Regeneration. So Life Powder balances the few Hits from monsters very good.
    Well it isn't necessary, cause the Archer has a lot of advantages throughout the own class, but with additional Life Powder - think about how useful that can be (by 100 HP/s while short rests).

    i am fully aware of the benefits of life powder. don't assume that just because my avatar shows me as a lvl 25 cleric that i'm a nub lol. i been playin this game for almost a year now, and have extensive experience with all 6 classes, plus with all the apothecary crafts up thru lvl 3 apoth

    what i am saying is, that your facts are wrong, that regen rates are cut down to 1/4 of their normal rate while in battle
  • emperorsword
    emperorsword Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    I even have to correct myself (the advantage of Life Powder is even higher)

    My own HP Regeneration while fighting lies by ~6-7 HP.


    While sitting she is 4 times higher (cause while fighting 50% HP Regen, while sitting 200% HP Regen) so ~24-28 HP.

    I said earlier:

    The HP Regeneration while Fighting (with Life Powder) lies by ~30 HP and that is correct.

    25 HP are the part which gets regenerated by Life Powder and only 6-7 HP gets regenerated by my own HP Regeneration.

    the normal Cleric HP Buff only regenerates additional 1-2 HP. So you can see, it does a big difference in the early game.

    And in the mid- and end game it is still useful cause it's not like you'll each time have a Full Supporter who heals you the whole time, while you're grinding.
  • Pirate_Pete - Harshlands
    Pirate_Pete - Harshlands Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    I don't need MP to use my cannons YAR!!
  • /Alex/ - Sanctuary
    /Alex/ - Sanctuary Posts: 78 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    I even have to correct myself (the advantage of Life Powder is even higher)

    My own HP Regeneration while fighting lies by ~6-7 HP.


    While sitting she is 4 times higher (cause while fighting 50% HP Regen, while sitting 200% HP Regen) so ~24-28 HP.

    I said earlier:

    The HP Regeneration while Fighting (with Life Powder) lies by ~30 HP and that is correct.

    25 HP are the part which gets regenerated by Life Powder and only 6-7 HP gets regenerated by my own HP Regeneration.

    the normal Cleric HP Buff only regenerates additional 1-2 HP. So you can see, it does a big difference in the early game.

    And in the mid- and end game it is still useful cause it's not like you'll each time have a Full Supporter who heals you the whole time, while you're grinding.

    1facepalmf.jpg
  • emperorsword
    emperorsword Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    i am fully aware of the benefits of life powder. don't assume that just because my avatar shows me as a lvl 25 cleric that i'm a nub lol. i been playin this game for almost a year now, and have extensive experience with all 6 classes, plus with all the apothecary crafts up thru lvl 3 apoth

    what i am saying is, that your facts are wrong, that regen rates are cut down to 1/4 of their normal rate while in battle

    Nope, that's not true. While battling you have 50% of your normal Regeneration.
    When you're not battling, you have 100% Regeneration ability (100% = normal)
    While Sitting you have 200% Regeneration ability (2x of the normal Regeneration)

    You can say, you have 25% Regeneration while a battle, if you compare the battle regeneration with the Sitting-Regeneration.

    But that isn't important, when you're grinding. That might be interesting, when you try to tank a Boss. But even then Life Powder could be interesting, if you have more tanks the same time.

    Then you can follow the strategy:

    buff (for example) on 2 Tanks Life Powder. In the 1st round you tank only with one Tank the Boss. When that tank gets low HP, the next tank draws the aggro onto himself.
    So while the 2nd Tank ist taking the damage, the other tank sits down on the battlefield - he uses the 200% HP Regeneration why sitting while Life Powder is active.
    Together with a cleric who supports the 2nd Tank, the 1st Tank should have enough time, to heal its HP. So when the 2nd Tank gets low on HP, they change places and the 2nd Tank regenerates HP while sitting, and the 1st Tank takes the aggro and the damage and so on.

    Depending on the enemy you maybe need more than 2 tanks, but it's only the strategy I wanted to explain.

    So if you follow such a strategy you can balance out that you maybe don't have enough clerics or that your team is a bit too weak compared to the boss, whatever.




    Anyway: what you are saying isn't correct, if you want to grind monsters. When you grind monsters, you maybe kill 5-6 monsters in a row. Then you take a small rest and while you rest you have the 200% HP-Regeneration Boost, you have, when you sit down.
    That's how you use it effectively (especially in the early- and the mid game).
  • /Alex/ - Sanctuary
    /Alex/ - Sanctuary Posts: 78 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    -wall of text-

    could someone please direct this poor nub to where the game guide specifies that regen rate is 25% while in battle? seriously, i feel sorry for the guy b:sweat
  • emperorsword
    emperorsword Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    ok, now I see what you mean (strange, i had in mind, that you also have 50% HP Regeneration while fighting).

    But still that's not the main advantage of Life Powder (like the explanations before)

    No need to be that harsh--'''
  • /Alex/ - Sanctuary
    /Alex/ - Sanctuary Posts: 78 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    ok, now I see what you mean (strange, i had in mind, that you also have 50% HP Regeneration while fighting).

    But still that's not the main advantage of Life Powder (like the explanations before)

    Life Powder:
    +12.5hp/s in combat
    +50hp/s idle stance
    +100hp/s meditation
    Lasts 10 minutes

    Cleric HP/MP Regen Buff (Level 10):
    +2.5hp/s in combat
    +10hp/s idle stance
    +20hp/s meditation
    +2.5mp/s in combat
    +10mp/s idle stance
    +20mp/s meditation
    Lasts 30 minutes (or 1 hour for squad version)

    cleric buff > life powder for grinding. end of story
    life powder > cleric buff for lowbie fb/bh/boss. end of story

    for anything higher than level 45, life powder is useless lol


    eh... we're offtopic... oh well
  • emperorsword
    emperorsword Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    Well I don't think so, but I'll see on my own.

    20 HP (cleric buff) while meditation compared to 100 HP while meditation


    life powder is still regenerating as 5 times as the buff and if you have no cleric you have no buff.

    On my actual standpoint why should a cleric party with a Barbarian?

    A cleric could party with a venomancer (with pet as tank), with a Blademaster (maybe more dmg?), Archer (Dodge Monk good dmg dealer) for example.

    So there would be already the question: when starts a Barbarian or Blademaster to become interesting for Exp parties? 2 or 3 man exp parties.
  • somerandomacc
    somerandomacc Posts: 58 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    @OP
    iv'e seen that happen TONS of times with my 3 BMs (lvl 37, 24 and 26)
    and even they are considered some kind of lowbies, and still it happened TONS of times.

    @Alex
    you are incorrect that cleric buff > life powder
    there are even better versions of life powder.
    and when staking 6 of them (for squad mode)
    you actually get a more than decent HP regen. and same with the lvl 2 MP apoth pot.

    iv'e experienced the game for even 2 years. with 1 year temporary quitting on 1.5 yr time.
    so don't consider yourself pro, cuz im pro-er b:chuckle

    BTW exept my 3 BMs in total, i had a barb, an archer, 3 wizzies, and a veno (i still have the veno and a BM)
    which means i got experienced with 5 classes exept clerc. and what im saying is tottaly unbiased. so shutup b:shutup

    /endthread
  • /Alex/ - Sanctuary
    /Alex/ - Sanctuary Posts: 78 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    Well I don't think so, but I'll see on my own.

    20 HP (cleric buff) while meditation compared to 100 HP while meditation


    life powder is still regenerating as 5 times as the buff and if you have no cleric you have no buff.

    life powder gives you 10min of grinding godliness. cleric buff gives you 30min of easy-breezy grinding (1hour for squad version)

    i see the longer effective time as more useful for grinding, since you going to have to meditate regardless. granted, clerics might not always be around, but then that's why i keep a stock of Flourish Orbs on me b:chuckle

    @OP
    iv'e seen that happen TONS of times with my 3 BMs (lvl 37, 24 and 26)
    and even they are considered some kind of lowbies, and still it happened TONS of times.

    @Alex
    you are incorrect that cleric buff > life powder
    there are even better versions of life powder.
    and when staking 6 of them (for squad mode)
    you actually get a more than decent HP regen. and same with the lvl 2 MP apoth pot.

    iv'e experienced the game for even 2 years. with 1 year temporary quitting on 1.5 yr time.
    so don't consider yourself pro, cuz im pro-er b:chuckle

    BTW exept my 3 BMs in total, i had a barb, an archer, 3 wizzies, and a veno (i still have the veno and a BM)
    which means i got experienced with 5 classes exept clerc. and what im saying is tottaly unbiased. so shutup b:shutup

    /endthread

    post on your main acc troll b:cute
  • somerandomacc
    somerandomacc Posts: 58 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    life powder gives you 10min of grinding godliness. cleric buff gives you 30min of easy-breezy grinding (1hour for squad version)

    i see the longer effective time as more useful for grinding, since you going to have to meditate regardless. granted, clerics might not always be around, but then that's why i keep a stock of Flourish Orbs on me b:chuckle




    post on your main acc troll b:cute

    AHEM.... first of all, perhaps 60/30 mins > 10mins, but 100hp while sitting >>>>>>> 20hp while sitting. so go troll your biased answers to the GMs, thankyou b:bye
  • /Alex/ - Sanctuary
    /Alex/ - Sanctuary Posts: 78 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    AHEM.... first of all, perhaps 60/30 mins > 10mins, but 100hp while sitting >>>>>>> 20hp while sitting. so go troll your biased answers to the GMs, thankyou b:bye

    -whacks narrowminded troll with a rusty motel ashtray-

    +10hp/s for 60min (free) > +50hp/s for 10min (2-5k per use), when taking into consideration you will be grinding for at least 2-3hours in order to achieve any noticeable gains


    why the **** are we even discussing this? if you have to grind before 5x, you fail anyways
  • emperorsword
    emperorsword Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    Well, if you have a full support Cleric in your team, how heals and buffs continously, you are right, but that's also a question:

    You can't always have such a squad. Especially barbarians aren't really important to a grinding party.

    Maybe if you want to AoE monster. Ok, maybe. It always depends what chars you have in your company.
    Atm I do solo grinding, like the most ppl do.

    Venos grind fast solo. If I think - all range classes are grinding fast (maybe Veno und Archer the best solo classes).

    I think, Barbarian and Blademaster, the both close range classes always have a disadvantage in grinding. If they are well supported, no problem. If not, it is hard to surive with them.

    It still doesn't change the fact, how useful Life Powder is, cause on good days you can produce more than 50 Life Powder in 1 h with one char.

    50 Life Powder = 500 mins solo grinding time
  • somerandomacc
    somerandomacc Posts: 58 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    -whacks narrowminded troll with a rusty motel ashtray-

    +10hp/s for 60min (free) > +50hp/s for 10min (2-5k per use), when taking into consideration you will be grinding for at least 2-3hours in order to achieve any noticeable gains


    why the **** are we even discussing this? if you have to grind before 5x, you fail anyways

    1)yea, add another life powder after the 1st ends and look at the differences...
    try again b:chuckle

    2) whats better? around 5 herbs or 1k mp? o/c its 5 herbs you **** b:bye

    3) again my 3 BMs approach. i ALWAYS grind with life powders with BMs and i see that i can atleast call on 10 mobs without stopping for meditation, which lasts around 10 mins.
    the clerc buff lets me do just 3 mobs and occasionly meditating for 1/2 / 1 hour.
    ||
    \/
    seems life powders pwn clerc buffs. try again b:bye
  • /Alex/ - Sanctuary
    /Alex/ - Sanctuary Posts: 78 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    Well, if you have a full support Cleric in your team, how heals and buffs continously, you are right, but that's also a question:

    You can't always have such a squad. Especially barbarians aren't really important to a grinding party.

    Maybe if you want to AoE monster. Ok, maybe. It always depends what chars you have in your company.
    Atm I do solo grinding, like the most ppl do.

    Venos grind fast solo. If I think - all range classes are grinding fast (maybe Veno und Archer the best solo classes).

    I think, Barbarian and Blademaster, the both close range classes always have a disadvantage in grinding. If they are well supported, no problem. If not, it is hard to surive with them.

    It still doesn't change the fact, how useful Life Powder is, cause on good days you can produce more than 50 Life Powder in 1 h with one char.

    50 Life Powder = 500 mins solo grinding time

    500min grinding time obtained through how many min/hours farming the mats for those life powders? lol

    much easier to just ask a nearby cleric "may i get buffs please? thank you for your time" and then a second "thank you" once they buff you (which they will, if you ask nicely like i wrote lol)

    side note: barbarians are naturally straight beasts for grinding, they have a passive skill that increases their hp regen, they have hp buff, the accuracy buff is free at higher levels.... lol, if you think barbs are hard to grind with, then you obviously haven't played a well-built barb before

    also, dual-axe bms are some of the fastest grinders around... they can aoe the **** outta grinding spots, and with a combo of their DS, marrows, and pots, are very flexible when it comes to what they grind on and how long between medding sessions
  • somerandomacc
    somerandomacc Posts: 58 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    iv'e just noticed some stuff we are misunderstanding.
    1)there are actually clerc HEALS, not HP REGEN BUFFS
    now then HEALS use the "Recovering HP" avatar, unlike the hp regen buffs which use (and overwrite) the "Increased HP/MP Regeneration"
    2) the clerc def buff could be stacked with (for example) BM's aura, it doesnt overwrite the aura. same thing with Mag def/att.
    ||
    \/
    not ALL clerc buffs suck b:byeb:shutup

    to make it all clear: clercs shouldn't have the "Increased HP/MP Regeneration"
    skill, since apoth pots are better. other buffs are still good tho.

    /thread
  • KrittyCat - Dreamweaver
    KrittyCat - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,273 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    to make it all clear: clercs shouldn't have the "Increased HP/MP Regeneration" skill, since apoth pots are better. other buffs are still good tho.

    /thread

    Intelligence fail...how many people would gouge us for mats to make the apoth stuff, or gouge us for the apoth stuff itself? I think that you are not taking into account those who tank for a living (barbs ftw) and can't always afford to buy or make the apoth stuff. We love having that little extra hp regen in an instance, because it means we won't have to pop 3-4 or more of the apoth stuff at 5k+ a pop. And with a cleric healing, the regen isn't that big of a deal. Therefore, clerics should keep the HP/MP Regen buffs, because of those people who don't want to have to grind to get money to spend on more grinding...it makes a vicious cycle that not all of us can overcome.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    (Signature credit to NowItsAwn)

    Survivor of Snow-Mageddon 2010, "The Great Earthquake" of 2011, and Sandy 2012 b:victory
  • emperorsword
    emperorsword Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    Well, we differ from the main topic:

    The main topic includes, that you have no supporting Cleric, that you grind alone and alone the

    HP Buff of the cleric is really nothing compared to the effectiveness of Life Powder, cause with Life Powder you can at least tank more than 1 monster the same time and you regenerate the lost HP fast enough to grind.

    For example: You have 3000 HP. After your 1st grinding session you maybe have 600-700 HP left. So you have to regenerate 2300 HP (at this point we ignore that Life Powder also regenerates a lot more HP while the Battle).

    With Life Powder you regenerate that within maybe ~27 seconds? (5 secs. to start the meditation phase)

    With the cleric HP Buff you regenerate it within maybe (2300 : 20) + 5 = 120 Seconds.

    10 mins with Life Powder:


    in 10 mins. you can make maybe 3 big regeneration sessions?

    3x ~30 s = 90 s just for Meditation and ~7 mins. grinding? 30 s per Monsterkill and 5-6 Monsters in a row? I don't know exactely, cause we also ignore the HP Regeneration while fighting. So maybe 3x 5 = 15 monsters (worst case)

    10 mins with HP Buff (cleric):

    you need 120 s per HP Regeneration

    120 s = 4x 30 s (compared to Life Powder)

    So you maybe can do 1 till 1,5 grinding sessions. You can't do completely 2 grinding sessions the same time, cause you need 240 secs at least for 2x meditation-phases and even by the Life-Powder we only planed 90 seconds for regeneration.

    So what will that be within 30 mins?


    At least 3x3 = 9 grinding sessions with Life Powder (maybe even more)

    best case: 1,5 x 3 = 4,5 grinding sessions with HP Buff

    and how fast can you farm nectar and golden herb?
  • KrittyCat - Dreamweaver
    KrittyCat - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,273 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    and how fast can you farm nectar and golden herb?

    And here will come statements on how you can buy them, or buy the powder...joy.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    (Signature credit to NowItsAwn)

    Survivor of Snow-Mageddon 2010, "The Great Earthquake" of 2011, and Sandy 2012 b:victory
  • emperorsword
    emperorsword Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    but that wasn't the main topic.

    the main topic was, that a lot of clerics run around and buff ppl randomly - not within parties, I mean randomly!!!!!!

    And then they cancel Life Powder and other stuff and that's not ok. It doesn't care me much, if I have a full support cleric in my squad. Then I don't need Life Powder, but they do it randomly. And after that the Tank (Barb, BM, whatever) has to deal with that stupid cancel all by himself.

    THAT IS THE PROBLEM!!!!
  • KrittyCat - Dreamweaver
    KrittyCat - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,273 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    but that wasn't the main topic.

    the main topic was, that a lot of clerics run around and buff ppl randomly - not within parties, I mean randomly!!!!!!

    And then they cancel Life Powder and other stuff and that's not ok. It doesn't care me much, if I have a full support cleric in my squad. Then I don't need Life Powder, but they do it randomly. And after that the Tank (Barb, BM, whatever) has to deal with that stupid cancel all by himself.

    THAT IS THE PROBLEM!!!!

    I understand this, I am just saying what you are going to end up getting...more and more people telling you "QQ MOAR" and telling you to just pop another powder.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    (Signature credit to NowItsAwn)

    Survivor of Snow-Mageddon 2010, "The Great Earthquake" of 2011, and Sandy 2012 b:victory
  • emperorsword
    emperorsword Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    iv'e just noticed some stuff we are misunderstanding.
    1)there are actually clerc HEALS, not HP REGEN BUFFS
    now then HEALS use the "Recovering HP" avatar, unlike the hp regen buffs which use (and overwrite) the "Increased HP/MP Regeneration"
    2) the clerc def buff could be stacked with (for example) BM's aura, it doesnt overwrite the aura. same thing with Mag def/att.
    ||
    \/
    not ALL clerc buffs suck b:byeb:shutup

    to make it all clear: clercs shouldn't have the "Increased HP/MP Regeneration"
    skill, since apoth pots are better. other buffs are still good tho.

    /thread

    That buff isn't completely a bad one, but I for myself had once the problem, that one cleric was following me the whole time and canceled my Life Powder more than 1 time.

    The first time I tried to be gentle and said to him, that it cancels my Life Powder. He shouldn't do that again.

    But the 2nd and the 3rd time I got pissed, because that is just harassment.
  • somerandomacc
    somerandomacc Posts: 58 Arc User
    edited October 2009

    ...and how fast can you farm nectar and golden herb?

    if you know where to farm those, you really can do atleast 50 powders in a good day.
    I understand this, I am just saying what you are going to end up getting...more and more people telling you "QQ MOAR" and telling you to just pop another powder.

    i still didnt understand whats QQ... b:sad
  • emperorsword
    emperorsword Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    if you know where to farm those, you really can do atleast 50 powders in a good day.



    i still didnt understand whats QQ... b:sad

    If you are lucky, cause no one farms big Nectar, you can farm 150 Nectar and 100 Golden Herb within 1 hour and not one day.

    But that doesn't change the fact, you have to collect it and if you lose 5 Life Powders per day, cause some stupid clerics cancel it, then you lose already 10% of your Life Powder which you have farmed in a Happy Farming Hour.


    If you are unfortunate you can also farm 3 hours for 50 Life Powders--
  • somerandomacc
    somerandomacc Posts: 58 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    That buff isn't completely a bad one, but I for myself had once the problem, that one cleric was following me the whole time and canceled my Life Powder more than 1 time.

    The first time I tried to be gentle and said to him, that it cancels my Life Powder. He shouldn't do that again.

    But the 2nd and the 3rd time I got pissed, because that is just harassment.

    i 100% agree b:shocked cleric + trolling = a great disaster, worser then Bin Laden b:shockedb:shocked
    If you are lucky, cause no one farms big Nectar, you can farm 150 Nectar and 100 Golden Herb within 1 hour and not one day... 150 + 100 : 5 = 50...

    If you are unfortunate you can also farm 3 hours for 50 Life Powders--50 : 3 = w00t?

    thats why i sayed ATLEAST... learn to read b:bye