Imo

Falls - Sanctuary wrote: »

To close, I have found that in general, many of those who claim that most Nef members currently do not "deserve" the lands they have, or credit they get, are not too well informed as to the specifics of each member's history in Nef. I simply ask that you take the bad with the good, and truly take a member's accomplishments in relation to those that have come before them. If someone has the balls to try to take credit for something they didn't do, I myself will gladly correct them.

Number of coins Nef has distributed in the past year: ~ 50 Billion
Number of people Nef has gone through in the past year: ~ 700
Worth of 1 Loyal Nef Member: Priceless

It is, indeed, a shame that so many people phrase their frustration with "Nef" as a matter of people not deserving the rewards they get. However, promoting that badly-articulated version of the concern into a straw man and then knocking it down as if that eliminates the fundamental concern itself is disingenuous. I have watched Nef for the life of the server. One of my best friends in those early days joined Nef and I did a lot of my first FBs and boss hunts with squads from Nef. It was a fun group and I always thought that if I was just a little more dedicated to levelling I might have happily taken one of those early recruiting offers (which were always at a minimum 2 levels above where I was). Those players were not mythical. I fondly remember the double squad of Nef members we had to pull together to kill Virridis because the tank needed that much healing and support from outside the squad. But, they were a faction struggling and working to make themself something just like everybody else. That, to my mind, is Nef. It is not "Nef" - the vaguely threatening force that people feel so strongly against.

What bothers people about "Nef" is more the phenomenon that occurred after world domination became visible on the horizon rather than the members themselves or something about the faction as a faction. It is the same dysfunctional problem that has happened on every PW server ever (albeit Heaven's Tear appears to be populated by slowpokes, but they are getting there too). It is the phenomenon that the PWI staff recognized and hoped they could avoid with a few tweaks to the TW rules, but failed. Over time, a dominant faction absorbs all of the most capable players. In doing so, it sucks them out of the competition which makes the whole process even more self-reinforcing. Whether the most promising players at other factions leave to join the dominant faction or just leave altogether (or give up on things like TW and play the game differently) because they see they cannot keep up with the dominant faction, the effect is the same. Blame selfishness, a lack of coordination, or laziness if you will but it is a fact of human nature demonstrated time and again that a dominant faction in this game is an absorbing state. It is also clear (and should be completely clear to Nef's own members) that this problem of game design precludes TW from being as fun as it was when each faction had real potential and could, therefore, hold on to its most promising players.

On our server, "Nef" is the easy name to associate with this problem. The members who left other factions because they were promising enough to become part of the winner are the specific embodiment of the problem. It's pointless to try and define a group of people who are particularly deserving of that treatment. They take grief not because of any hatred of them as players (for the most part) or their faction as a faction. Any introspective observer would have to admit that they really are no different from the rest of us. But, that does not address the fact that we can all feel a bit of rage against the phenomenon and the fact that it deprives us from having any real fun from the TW system. If we are supremely lucky, that rage might make someone like Regicide have enough cohesiveness to do something that's never been done before. I personally doubt it, but that is why I root for them (just like I rooted for Legendary) to succeed at making TW fun again.

My apologies to anyone who has read this far and yet does not like a "wall-o-text."

Haha Venus how long where you in nef? Your previous leader was banned for fake bidding were you on vacation that week? Sinangel read Legendary strategies on leg forums before each TW for weeks and has come out to admit it. You are way behind in all your assumptions your really need to get more into faction politics.

You need to start a faction and conquer the map ray.

gogogo!

Not to mention with the recent changes within Nef i'd say we are more like a family then ever...

Ofc you do , devalis is gone ; I would've held a party for days because of that b:victory .

FitHitDShan - Sanctuary wrote: »

On our server, "Nef" is the easy name to associate with this problem. The members who left other factions because they were promising enough to become part of the winner are the specific embodiment of the problem. It's pointless to try and define a group of people who are particularly deserving of that treatment. They take grief not because of any hatred of them as players (for the most part) or their faction as a faction. Any introspective observer would have to admit that they really are no different from the rest of us. But, that does not address the fact that we can all feel a bit of rage against the phenomenon and the fact that it deprives us from having any real fun from the TW system. If we are supremely lucky, that rage might make someone like Regicide have enough cohesiveness to do something that's never been done before. I personally doubt it, but that is why I root for them (just like I rooted for Legendary) to succeed at making TW fun again.

Yes, we agree. Nefarious certainly is the "easy name" for other people's lack of fun with TW, and it is easy to skip a few steps and stereotype the faction and its members. Like this:

Raydoit - Sanctuary wrote: »

Please, don't try to tell us Nef is in the right. Even though its not against the rules it is still most certainly wrong to deprive us of the games most appealing feature.

Sorry, but I did not deprive anyone intentionally of their fun. I would love it if we could all have fun, but were the shoe on the other foot, I am almost 100% sure that you would pick your enjoyment over mine xD.

(Also, about faulty premises, please tell me where Nef is in the wrong before I have to prove that it is in the right =P.)

Those who have any "rage" concerning the TW System can and should direct it to PWE through tickets and suggestion threads xD.

FitHitDShan - Sanctuary wrote: »

It is also clear (and should be completely clear to Nef's own members) that this problem of game design precludes TW from being as fun as it was when each faction had real potential and could, therefore, hold on to its most promising players.

That isn't so clear, and I've been here a while. I hear a common complaint in PvP servers is that the CareBears eventually win. Some people equate "Win" with "Fun", while others have a different idea of it, maybe a challenge. I've had fun in my year's worth of Nef TWs and 95% of them ended in 15 minutes or less. Presumably, if people weren't having fun, they would have quit the game/faction, (Since that is the purpose of playing) but I see many Nef members sticking around. I appreciate a challenge from time to time, but I prefer to win. I feel bad that it is not fun for the rest of you though, but again; look elsewhere to pin the blame.

FitHitDShan - Sanctuary wrote: »

What bothers people about "Nef" is more the phenomenon that occurred after world domination became visible on the horizon rather than the members themselves or something about the faction as a faction.

I'm just curious, but when was this horizon visible? Even during this summer there were those within the faction jumping ship, for fear it would sink to pressure from Legendary and the rest of the server. People have "seen" this since Seppuku, and since that time, Nef has been on the ropes at least 2-3 times. Apparently, it hasn't been so obvious to as much of the server as one might imagine, or they would've taken those opportunities to finish us off.

FitHitDShan - Sanctuary wrote: »

It is the same dysfunctional problem that has happened on every PW server ever (albeit Heaven's Tear appears to be populated by slowpokes, but they are getting there too). It is the phenomenon that the PWI staff recognized and hoped they could avoid with a few tweaks to the TW rules, but failed. Over time, a dominant faction absorbs all of the most capable players. In doing so, it sucks them out of the competition which makes the whole process even more self-reinforcing. Whether the most promising players at other factions leave to join the dominant faction or just leave altogether (or give up on things like TW and play the game differently) because they see they cannot keep up with the dominant faction, the effect is the same. Blame selfishness, a lack of coordination, or laziness if you will but it is a fact of human nature demonstrated time and again that a dominant faction in this game is an absorbing state. It is also clear (and should be completely clear to Nef's own members) that this problem of game design precludes TW from being as fun as it was when each faction had real potential and could, therefore, hold on to its most promising players.

Yes, but its the same the whole world over when you are dealing with people and politics (One of the most difficult parts of being in a big faction =/). I know of few games where the guild system doesn't benefit the biggest, fattest faction. That is not to excuse PW entirely of having a pretty bad guild war system (IMO), in relation to others, but the rules (If not the implications) were clear to all of us when we started playing. So in large part, I will gladly blame: "selfishness, a lack of coordination, [and/]or laziness". That is not to say everyone who opposes Nef is that way, because I know for instance that TheDan has been trying for a good long time. Overall though, it seems that the [Insert Social Element] of the 200 in Nef beat that of the rest of the server. (You can go ahead and pick your word, whether it be Cooperation, Tolerance, or CareBear-iness ;D.)

I personally support changing the TW Rules (Chance of actually happening: ~0%), but while they remain what they are, I will play by those rules to the best of my ability, for my greatest possible benefit, cause that's my idea of fun. Straight from the mouth of the greatest coach ever xD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMk5sMHj58I .

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Zuyue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Venus how long where you in Nef? Your previous leader was banned for fake bidding were you on vacation that week? Sinangel read Legendary strategies on leg forums before each TW for weeks and has come out to admit it. You are way behind in all your assumptions your really need to get more into faction politics.

Yes, Venus was wrong in writing that no fake bid part in her original post.

Is it evil? Maybe. I did it once, and I regret it on a moral basis, it would be one of my regrets on that "Accomplishments and Regrets" post. I left the game after that, since I was clearly taking it all too seriously.

Is it stupid? Yes xD. I hoped that at least Devalis would have learned that lesson from me. It never works well, especially not when Nef is involved, the reason being that we get tickets submitted against us, whether we actually commit the offense or not, so the chance of getting caught is like 100%. And GMs don't even care to have that much proof, and will ban additional people even circumstantially, if it makes sense to them x3.

So I would say that all in all, fake bidding has worked against Nef, and killed a couple of good attack weeks. I certainly wouldn't list it as a dirty tactic that helped cement Nefarious' TW dominance. If you want to claim that it was wrong, that is fair, and I accept it.

The spying thing, I wasn't around for too much of that, and when I was, Devalis was in charge. Its not cheating according to the rules, as fake bidding is, and does add an extra element of espionage that can be fun for some. I personally wouldn't do it, because that involves a little too much deception for my taste/taking it all too seriously, but I think some people get their kicks pretending to be super spies xD.

Falls - Sanctuary wrote: »

Sorry, but I did not deprive anyone intentionally of their fun. I would love it if we could all have fun, but were the shoe on the other foot, I am almost 100% sure that you would pick your enjoyment over mine xD.

(Also, about faulty premises, please tell me where Nef is in the wrong before I have to prove that it is in the right =P.)

Like I said before all the people who left their faction out to die,to join nef just so they can be the best, is in the wrong and I do believe that applies to quite a big number of nefs (of course this is just my opinion).

I dunno what your goals are but I do hope that the nefs who say they love pw will eventually leave nef in an attempt to balance things out. If you don't then you will own the whole map and when that happens many will quit and many will role the new classes. You will probably have a few factions attacking you every week but don't expect a fight, expect a waste of 5 minutes of your life because that is all you will get (and this is a Fact).

ooooh pictures of veno pl0x! you can blot out the name if you want, but i hear it reached sage o.o (hopefully not as angry looking as your bm b:chuckle)

All these giant walls of text...

I'm not trying to sound mean but, dont you all have something better to do?

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

oh dear! that face reminds me of Akasera b:chuckle

Kinda,but aka was most of the times in her fish armor (tt90 green LA) thus called Fishkasera or Akatuna <>< by some faction mates , * points at strife for the 2nd nick name*.

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

oh? Aka would refuse to wear clothes to cover up that awful looking armor? also: Akatuna b:chuckle

http://s568.photobucket.com/albums/ss128/naix20oO/2009-07-1603-30-25.jpg

you can see me through the wing of her QQbird

Looks like a less wrinkly Clint Eastwood that sucked on a lemon.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_vbrMa5TSSdY/R5C9qPcHCAI/AAAAAAAAAtM/V9nc4nv0bco/s400/clint-eastwood.jpg

Frankly i wouldnt mind attacking nef (im in regi). But it is not like nef would just give up land (as proven in the past). And to be quite honest they are just too much for us to handle. No matter how much we've grown, level gap and gear gap (does not apply to me) is just too great. Not saying this as an excuse. I am merely stating the reality of the situation. And i am not complaining at all. They have the money to become stronger, so why not use it, i know i would (if i had it b:sad).

This is my drunk 3 am IMO

MOST of you didnt win ****. When I was in Nef I didnt feel like I won **** other than the lands we won while I was there. Most people in Nef wasnt even there till Nef controlled Majority of the map.

I accept nef is strong but not cause they got cash shoppers....... Templar would have still been in outlaw if he hadnt gone to nef cause of pockey dont forget that and there are many more. If nef is still in place its cause of the foundation Sasaky Falls had made long time back devalis also did a nice job but devalis got too many bad rumros against him unlike any other leader of nef. You also cant deny the fact that IF aka still was leader of leg and PWI didnt start this stupid event Leg would still have been strong very strong. as for regi i have been saying this in all other posts that regi is and has the power but still TheDan needs to learn tons of more stuff before he can prepare regicide for TW. Just knowing the TW bidding alog doesnt mean u have a priority. regi got 2 lands now i would love to see if it can defend 2 lands at the same time if they pull that through then 1 month or 2 month down the line with the same members regi can be a eligible for TW against Nef.


in the recent past ShockWave have proven to be a threat to outlaw when it still had 3-4 lands. 23 ppl against 60 outlaw and they did quiet well till outlaw had pulled in re reinforcement (as told by a friend). Outlaw at that point of time was way stronger gear wise lvl wise and also member wise.

i heard a few leg people complaining that Templar and BigP got 30k + hp which i think is a full feldged rumor. but yeah there skills are also incomparable. This doesnt imply this there arent any better well there are barbs who can do as well as them why not work on them ? you all talk bout level gap but i thought delta was cracked and ppl are doing regular delta ??

well anyways. as of what i think regicide still needs to sort out tons of stuff if am not mistaken though dan might deny it, obvious for a leader. but i kind of dont care cause i say what i know and think is right and if there is anything wrong do change it for me. anyways hf all

tatu3110 wrote: »

I accept nef is strong but not cause they got cash shoppers....... Templar would have still been in outlaw if he hadnt gone to nef cause of pockey dont forget that and there are many more. If nef is still in place its cause of the foundation Sasaky Falls had made long time back devalis also did a nice job but devalis got too many bad rumros against him unlike any other leader of nef. You also cant deny the fact that IF aka still was leader of leg and PWI didnt start this stupid event Leg would still have been strong very strong. as for regi i have been saying this in all other posts that regi is and has the power but still TheDan needs to learn tons of more stuff before he can prepare regicide for TW. Just knowing the TW bidding alog doesnt mean u have a priority. regi got 2 lands now i would love to see if it can defend 2 lands at the same time if they pull that through then 1 month or 2 month down the line with the same members regi can be a eligible for TW against Nef.


in the recent past ShockWave have proven to be a threat to outlaw when it still had 3-4 lands. 23 ppl against 60 outlaw and they did quiet well till outlaw had pulled in re reinforcement (as told by a friend). Outlaw at that point of time was way stronger gear wise lvl wise and also member wise.

i heard a few leg people complaining that Templar and BigP got 30k + hp which i think is a full feldged rumor. but yeah there skills are also incomparable. This doesnt imply this there arent any better well there are barbs who can do as well as them why not work on them ? you all talk bout level gap but i thought delta was cracked and ppl are doing regular delta ??

well anyways. as of what i think regicide still needs to sort out tons of stuff if am not mistaken though dan might deny it, obvious for a leader. but i kind of dont care cause i say what i know and think is right and if there is anything wrong do change it for me. anyways hf all

Well I'm always going to be honest about things, I have no reason to lie or deny. Problems don't get resolved by ignoring them, I'm not ashamed if we're not up to par to the greatest factions of Sanctuary yet, but I can acclaim that we've worked hard to catch up. I just always tend to be positive about things; as always, suggestions, ideas, and positive criticism are always welcome. I'm not denying the mechanics of our faction are changing a bit. And with greater power comes greater responsibility. Regicide has never owned more than 2 lands at once(AKA never needed a pay system). So we are still a faction in development. Some time I'd gladly donate to improve on certain areas, which I won't go into detail on our personal affairs.

Obviously the Nefarious Barbs have gotten a lot stronger in terms of survivability(but so have our barbs). The counter balance to that is that we've been closing in the level gaps. Where their gear might have gotten better, their level does not move. The damage reduction becomes minimal and our DPS increasing rapidly with new strengths we acquire by overcoming obstacles we've been meaning to address. Whereas the rest of the server may have given up I still think that we have a chance given there is a lot of opportunity to take advantage of right now.

tatu3110 wrote: »

i accept that Regicide has evolved during these years...

Yes....all these years. Seeing as it hasn't even been a year for Regicide yet.