Imo

Telarith - Sanctuary · September 2009

Ayano-chan - Sanctuary wrote: »

So you were in leg,you have a bm alt interested in fists as well, you said something about a 2nd cleric which means you got a 1st one.

Your Sylvae?

I was unaware that it was a guess that person's main, coulda just asked. I just don't bother swapping avatars back and forth for posting. Though thinking about it, I think I did make a post about forming a faction with that premise back when Sylvae was still my main.

Arrowstorms - Sanctuary · September 2009

You fail to read the posts before you post yourself.
I stated " (altho there is ALOT of give or take situations)"
No leeroy on the forums plzb:chuckle

No, its just when I asked to clarify what is considered original nef, you made a blanket statement, meaning if i actually named someone not fitting your definition you would just call them an exception.

You are the only one that compared them to 'mythical' beings from your standards.

I could just easily find the search button to find the plethora of posts pretty much saying that new nef members are just glory riding on original members work.
Also reread that sentence, I didn't say someone said they were mythical beings, just that they get brought up in every thread about nefarious LIKE they were something other than normal people who played the game
lol whoever thinks this shouldnt visit public forums where diff. factions post. b:chuckle
Thats what your post of quoting Venus looks like to me

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · September 2009

VenusFox - Sanctuary wrote: »

Sweetie my post stands as it was written by me, not how u "corrected" it.. and my problem isnt with someone, HatedSoul just triggered my thoughts on it.. when i come to the forums I see a bunch of bull being thrown around and bc i am a PWI member i have the right to voice my opinion as i see fit..

Of course you do :P its a public forum, pple post for literally everyone to see. I would HOPE no one has problems voicing out opinions unless it goes way into personal relations. info, etc

HolyInferno - Sanctuary · September 2009

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

Of course you do :P its a public forum, pple post for literally everyone to see. I would HOPE no one has problems voicing out opinions unless it goes way into personal relations. info, etc

so true.

/10char

Ayano-chan - Sanctuary · September 2009

I was unaware that it was a guess that person's main, coulda just asked.

But it's more fun this way b:cool .

BTW holy .... YOUR BOSS'S BEHIND YOU!! Get back to work !

Telarith - Sanctuary · September 2009

Hmmm....a list as many original Nef as you can game? With using people from the month of first land take?

Let's see; Sasaki, Mistilady, Mistiqueen, Aralyn, Geogaddi, Spacedgypsie, Manasurge, LadyCamilla, LineskyJ, Nishtara, Sinanju, BlackyBetty, um..... only main ones that stick out. There were some others, but these were some of the most active. I forget the name of the hated guy, people disliked him more than they disliked Geo's random PKs.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · September 2009

Arrowstorms - Sanctuary wrote: »

No, its just when I asked to clarify what is considered original nef, you made a blanket statement, meaning if i actually named someone not fitting your definition you would just call them an exception.

Again you make way to much assumptions lol. Never once did i say id make any sort of exception. TBH I didnt name them cause most pple, from prior encounters on the sanc forum, when i give examples, THEY are the ones that make exceptions, hence i said waste of time.

I could just easily find the search button to find the plethora of posts pretty much saying that new nef members are just glory riding on original members work.

anndd.. your point? You assumed something out of another person. Dont make the other take responsibility for your assumptions.

Also reread that sentence, I didn't say someone said they were mythical beings, just that they get brought up in every thread about nefarious LIKE they were something other than normal people who played the game

"raving about "original nef members" like some mythical beings is pretty much talking out of your butt"
Well from this quote, you didnt say someone said they were mythical, that 'someone' who said is not anyone else but you lol.

Thats what your post of quoting Venus looks like to me

What made this thread diff. than the other 10+ fac threads about nef n LG that already havnt been posted? If you see same things being compared and same things being said what do you expect? This is a thread that could have easily merged with another.

Arrowstorms - Sanctuary · September 2009

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

Hmmm....a list as many original Nef as you can game? With using people from the month of first land take?

Let's see; Sasaki, Mistilady, Mistiqueen, Aralyn, Geogaddi, Spacedgypsie, Manasurge, LadyCamilla, LineskyJ, Nishtara, Sinanju, BlackyBetty, um..... only main ones that stick out. There were some others, but these were some of the most active. I forget the name of the hated guy, people disliked him more than they disliked Geo's random PKs.

Well that was only for deceptistar, but the point was for you to also say what is your criteria for original members such as:
Before it was lvl 3 faction
Before it won 1st territory
Before all pve lvl 3 lands were taken
Etc.
Also the thing was to name those still playing, but hey, don't let me rain on your parade

Arrowstorms - Sanctuary · September 2009

Well for all the talk, you still didn't explain why you don't feel that Venus can't be considered an original nefarious member by your own criteria.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · September 2009

Arrowstorms - Sanctuary wrote: »

Well that was only for deceptistar, but the point was for you to also say what is your criteria for original members such as:
Before it was lvl 3 faction
Before it won 1st territory
Before all pve lvl 3 lands were taken
Etc.
Also the thing was to name those still playing, but hey, don't let me rain on your parade

how bout..........

the ones who dont post on this forum.

rofl

Seriously, ill really answer if its an honest question. =/
But from how you came out on your first and following posts, its not a sincere question but more a flamebait "cmon answer if you can and ill be ready with a comeback". I treat those like random archo duels.
*clicks NO to duel*
lol

Telarith - Sanctuary · September 2009

Arrowstorms - Sanctuary wrote: »

Well that was only for deceptistar, but the point was for you to also say what is your criteria for original members such as:
Before it was lvl 3 faction
Before it won 1st territory
Before all pve lvl 3 lands were taken
Etc.
Also the thing was to name those still playing, but hey, don't let me rain on your parade

There's really not a lot of wiggle room when talking about original members. It's the ones who were there in the beginning of the faction. That era would end roughly around when Nemesis formed and was the first major split of the faction. Some may view beginning as only before first land, but up til the split the ones there were the ones who took the first land. They are the ones who started it, and the ones who gave it the personality it was known for.

The only thing up for debate really, would be whether people after should be written off as leeches. And at what point they can claim the success of Nef. That is really the only point of contention worth going after. Original is pretty cut and dry honestly.

EDIT: Since I know 2nd paragraph would be taken wrong, that is not a statement of my opinion. It is a clarification of what the debate between you and deceptistar is basically centered around.

Arrowstorms - Sanctuary · September 2009

Its simple, you responded with your sole argument being that VenusFox is not an original nef member, I am merely trying to refute your point which implies that whoever is not original nef member does not have any valid point in any of their arguments. I'll even reveal my grand point: the oldest nefarious members still playing are me and sinangel, and you will rarely or never read any post from me, and rarely or never read any post from sinangel that you won't regret reading.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · September 2009

Arrowstorms - Sanctuary wrote: »

Its simple, you responded with your sole argument being that VenusFox is not an original nef member, I am merely trying to refute your point which implies that whoever is not nef member does not have any valid point in any of their arguments.

Your starting to imagine things. Like i said dont make me take responsibility for your assumptions.

I'll even reveal my grand point: the oldest nefarious members still playing are me and sinangel, and you will rarely or never read any post from me, and rarely or never read any post from sinangel that you won't regret reading.

lol... i thinks its me who decides what posts are worth reading and regretting. Whats it with you and your assumptions

Arrowstorms - Sanctuary · September 2009

You talk about assumptions, yet you selectively pick which parts of my posts were serious and which were not

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · September 2009

Arrowstorms - Sanctuary wrote: »

You talk about assumptions, yet you selectively pick which parts of my posts were serious and which were not

not my fault you chose to add both serious and non serious(?whatever that was) in :P if your gonna make a complaint about not wanting excess things of yours quoted dont add it in the first place lol

Ayano-chan - Sanctuary · September 2009

Wow it's been a long time since SafeZoneary forums have been this active .

I wasn't in leg from day 1 either,hell I wasn't even in SW from day 1 which was my 1st faction and I joined like 1 week before the 1st pvp TWs of this server started ; neither was Aka,nor that flat chested chick Ast .

You could say me and others from SW jumped ship to leg too. But we kinda started the in-faction drama displeased with certain officers that kicked some of our friends and never listened to us...so we left annoyed and joined the 2nd faction we had most contact with + most friends inside,it was also the closest faction like SW : same number of lands,same strength,numbers,lvls.We even warned the 2 officers which are practically responsible for it's downfall that they'll make the faction turn to ashes which it did + we also showed how important we were to the faction :P .

I think it's more important on who spent more time in the faction and what they did for it than who was there in it's 1st days. I'll never even talk about the 1st 4 lands leg or SW had because I wasn't there when they got them .I have no right to talk about those lands and this should be the same for all such cases,no matter in what faction or rank some1 is,unlike a certain self proclaimed "nef 1st lady" .

Quilue - Sanctuary · September 2009

i remember when i was low lvl my fac leader said that when you buy anything from the npcs in any territory, the guild controlling it gets money. i've always wondered if that's true o.o

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · September 2009

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

i remember when i was low lvl my fac leader said that when you buy anything from the npcs in any territory, the guild controlling it gets money. i've always wondered if that's true o.o

what about heaven/hell :O

Telarith - Sanctuary · September 2009

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

what about heaven/hell :O

Whoever has the most Sage/Demon characters on their account gets the money.

Falls - Sanctuary · September 2009

tatu3110 wrote: »

Correct me if I am wrong....When nemesis took lands from SW >> Misfortune Sepp was already there on the map or whipped out by Nef, but yeah, wasn't Nishtara the leader of Nef so how come Nish was there longer than Geo???

Well, Geogaddi was originally in Legendary, and didn't come to Nefarious until we were about to try the first PvE TW, which was like a month in. There was also a little over a one month window between the time that Nishtara left and Geo left.

Yea, but why talk about people that did more harm than good for Nef?

---

As far as I know there are about 5-10 people still left that were here from the first day to the first TW win, but that doesn't say much about the effort it took and whether they can claim any part of Nef's success. The fact is, that many people including VenusFox, who were not in the faction from the day it started, have faced many more difficult challenges than those faced by the original 200 members. As Arrowstorms pointed out, PvE Level 1 TW doesn't even require a functioning brain to do. Most of our members then could have just as easily been replaced by other level 5xs in the server. Even our first 10 or so PvP TWs just involved Zerging the enemy crystal due to our superior numbers and levels. So all credit to Nef's early success (Oct.-Dec.), I would give to whoever was recruiting and keeping things organized (SasakiSayuri, Pzykoleif, Dorm, Void are the only ones I can even still remember).

After Geo left, we had our first real challenge as a faction. Since our numbers were depleted (6x or so active out of 11x), and we lost land to make matters worse, many of our members were faced with the decision to quit or stay (Many quit). As far as I am concerned, anyone who chose to stay and fight (Including VenusFox), deserves as much claim to Nef's TW victories as anyone else, regardless of join date.

The same applies to anyone who has been through the other challenging times that Nef has faced. Fighting Legendary and the rest of the server was no easy task, and the outcome could have just as easily been reversed. It would be silly to try to credit the 190 or so original members who are no longer around with that victory as well. They may have helped create a situation where Nef was the strongest and thus had the most advantage, but when Nef lost a couple of lands this summer, it looked like things were all evened up in that respect yet again.

To close, I have found that in general, many of those who claim that most Nef members currently do not "deserve" the lands they have, or credit they get, are not too well informed as to the specifics of each member's history in Nef. I simply ask that you take the bad with the good, and truly take a member's accomplishments in relation to those that have come before them. If someone has the balls to try to take credit for something they didn't do, I myself will gladly correct them.

Number of coins Nef has distributed in the past year: ~ 50 Billion
Number of people Nef has gone through in the past year: ~ 700
Worth of 1 Loyal Nef Member: Priceless

HolyInferno - Sanctuary · September 2009

Arrowstorms - Sanctuary wrote: »

Well that was only for deceptistar, but the point was for you to also say what is your criteria for original members such as:
Before it was lvl 3 faction
Before it won 1st territory
Before all pve lvl 3 lands were taken
Etc.
Also the thing was to name those still playing, but hey, don't let me rain on your parade

why don't we just leave it as,

If you have to ask, you aren't one b:bye

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · September 2009

Falls - Sanctuary wrote: »

I simply ask that you take the bad with the good,

If i had just come across you recently falls, id say yep your right...and well spoken.

But I havnt. And I can say most of your posts are always pro-nef which is NOT bad in itself, but even IF a certain situation has a plus and a negative side you always seem to shift it to the plus side for your faction witha BUT... In all of my sanc threads and even general section ive never seen you admit outright a 'bad' without adding a 'but'. It could be your way with words and your refusal to be stomped down on a post, but it seems almost everything for you ingame of nef is justified. And im talking about posts that span over a good couple months, and non flamethreads too.
So no. Before you state that please act that. I understand your trying to explain some hazy stuff to the uninformed, which, is pretty helpful. But when things like that stack almost constantly, it becomes really questionable if you are actually explaining or giving excuses.

HolyInferno - Sanctuary wrote: »

why don't we just leave it as,

If you have to ask, you aren't one b:bye

b:chuckle

Falls - Sanctuary · September 2009

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

If i had just come across you recently falls, id say yep your right...and well spoken.

But I havnt. And I can say most of your posts are always pro-nef which is NOT bad in itself, but even IF a certain situation has a plus and a negative side you always seem to shift it to the plus side for your faction witha BUT... In all of my sanc threads and even general section ive never seen you admit outright a 'bad' without adding a 'but'. It could be your way with words and your refusal to be stomped down on a post, but it seems almost everything for you ingame of nef is justified. And I'm talking about posts that span over a good couple months, and non flamethreads too.
So no. Before you state that please act that. I understand your trying to explain some hazy stuff to the uninformed, which, is pretty helpful. But when things like that stack almost constantly, it becomes really questionable if you are actually explaining or giving excuses.

Well its a good rule of discussions not to bring up people's motivations. I don't question anyone's motivations here, and frankly don't care what they are. If half of you want Nef dead and buried, I accept that. I try to keep my discussion to the content contained within the little text boxes.

But if you must know, I gladly admit that I prefer to respond positively towards Nef, but that is because I am in Nef o_O, I don't think anyone would expect me to act otherwise. I also don't outright lie to make a point (Not saying you do, but some do). If someone asked me directly about all of the questionable things Nef has done, I would answer truthfully, and I have no qualms about it. That I also choose to present the other side is only natural, and it doesn't hurt anyone to have another perspective.

Risingdragon - Sanctuary · September 2009

why so many b:angry on this thread. venus just posted wat she have on mind and let every one know and understand wat kind faction nef is and why so many b:cry about a faction hold too many lands. they fight there hard and own way to gian it and hold wat they deserved. if you jerloused nef then go TW against them and stop rapping legend,i know when any or some 1 know wat happen to LG or nef(falling apart/internal drama or losted land druing TW) then coming next week they getting gang(means every singal faction is bidding them)

ps: that is all i want to said and i wont reply more on this thread(not if some 1 throwing a presonal atk) this forum is DRAMALAND to me. b:bye

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · September 2009

Falls - Sanctuary wrote: »

Well its a good rule of discussions not to bring up people's motivations. I don't question anyone's motivations here, and frankly don't care what they are. If half of you want Nef dead and buried, I accept that. I try to keep my discussion to the content contained within the little text boxes.

But if you must know, I gladly admit that I prefer to respond positively towards Nef, but that is because I am in Nef o_O, I don't think anyone would expect me to act otherwise. I also don't outright lie to make a point (Not saying you do, but some do). If someone asked me directly about all of the questionable things Nef has done, I would answer truthfully, and I have no qualms about it. That I also choose to present the other side is only natural, and it doesn't hurt anyone to have another perspective.

i dunno i just found the quote somewhat contradicting =[

Risingdragon - Sanctuary wrote: »

why so many b:angry on this thread. venus just posted wat she have on mind and let every one know and understand wat kind faction nef is and why so many b:cry about a faction hold too many lands. they fight there hard and own way to gian it and hold wat they deserved. if you jerloused nef then go TW against them and stop rapping legend,i know when any or some 1 know wat happen to LG or nef(falling apart/internal drama or losted land druing TW) then coming next week they getting gang(means every singal faction is bidding them)

I dont think no ones jealous at this point already, its been going on too long so pple just pretty much ignore the situation.

As for the question: why so many flame on this thread.?
Every thread regarding nef or LG with a personal opinion is gonna draw in MORE personal opinions from OTHER pple. What did u expect? No one to answer this thread? Everyone to agree with the OP?? b:puzzled b:sweat ?????

Falls - Sanctuary · September 2009

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

I dunno, I just found the quote somewhat contradicting =[.

Yeah, you are right, that quote was awful. Even in context it is far too general, and assumes too much. I try not to speak that loosely but things happen.

To clarify; I meant to challenge the premise, that "original" members are superior or deserve more credit than newer members. As so far I have seen no one has proven, or even tried to defend that claim, with any evidence. That is what I meant by looking at both sides, and not just being stuck on that assumption.

XAsch - Sanctuary · September 2009

These new threads addressing the same subjects seem to never end. /facepalm

Raydoit - Sanctuary · September 2009

I know that nef truly loves pw and they have their lands because they are just that good. But I do think all the people who are in nef just because they want to be in the strongest faction and want to be better than everyone else are....lame. I know a ton of members in nef were in other factions and just left for the best and now this is what happened, nef owning the server because the the best players joined them. Yup you guys seriously are the best which imo is a bad thing. The best shouldn't be huddled up in one faction they should be spread out in several different factions so they can compete with each other rather than just joining up and owning all the not so great players.

VenusFox - Sanctuary · September 2009

XAsch - Sanctuary wrote: »

These new threads addressing the same subjects seem to never end. /facepalm

If ur so bored with it then plz by all means move on.. however, maybe with the boredom you feel about this subject you can get the gist of how i feel when i am constantly hearing the bashing and QQ over nef..

And to Deceptistar this thread is not like all the rest bc i wrote it and i dont write threads like this even tho ive been a member of nef for the better part of my existence on this game.. Why, bc in most cases i could care less what ppl have to say. But when a good friend of mine goes half cocked at me bc of how horrible Nef is and how all the problems that occur are due to, if not in some part by Nef and all the lands we hold.. i just got a little crazy and wanted to shout.. but the Nef clan is expected to be respectable and whether we r considered to be such by the ppl of the server may be a different thing, but i know most of us try..

One more thing to you if i may.. in all your posts a see a whole lot of quotes and other than comments belittling ppl's statements i dont really see you as saying much.. if you have something to say then plz by all means say it.. but dont just tear apart other ppls statements just so you can have the most posts on another person's thread.. Gad its like nobody can have an opinion unless its the same as yours.. b:quiet

Raydoit - Sanctuary wrote: »

I know that nef truly loves pw and they have their lands because they are just that good. But I do think all the people who are in nef just because they want to be in the strongest faction and want to be better than everyone else are....lame. I know a ton of members in nef were in other factions and just left for the best and now this is what happened, nef owning the server because the the best players joined them. Yup you guys seriously are the best which imo is a bad thing. The best shouldn't be huddled up in one faction they should be spread out in several different factions so they can compete with each other rather than just joining up and owning all the not so great players.

As a human trait we all try to strive to succeed its just the way things r.. yes some ppl may decided to join a lower level faction to improve it.. but for the most part the human race r lazy and would rather start on top and stay there as compared to working from the bottom up, which of course would be more rewarding.. you cant bash ppl bc of this its just the way things are in rl and vl..

But let me say this it'd be nice if other clans felt more confident bc im sure there r more than just a couple out there that would be great fun in TW if they only gave it a shot b:flower

Raydoit - Sanctuary · September 2009

VenusFox - Sanctuary wrote: »

But let me say this it'd be nice if other clans felt more confident bc im sure there r more than just a couple out there that would be great fun in TW if they only gave it a shot b:flower

How in the hell is a faction supposed to feel confident when its best members (what you call lazy people who just want to be on top) left for nef? Most of the former TW factions are now inhabited by old characters who quit and low level carebears. Apparently the people who stayed now seem to be in nef or in limbo.

VenusFox - Sanctuary wrote: »

But let me say this it'd be nice if other clans felt more confident bc im sure there r more than just a couple out there that would be great fun in TW if they only gave it a shot

If you think 5 minute TWs against small depleted factions whom only had 30 members show is "great fun" then we are in trouble. It looks like our only hope is for huge internal affairs in nef or several of the High level influential players gets a whim to actually have fun and start/join a faction to compete with nef.

Imo

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