Venos underpowered?

2

Comments

  • Brael - Dreamweaver
    Brael - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,430 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Does this actually work on friendlies? Or is it an enemy-only skill?

    I've still been wanting to try it. I bet it would be possible to start a duel with a cleric and use it on them. Or just use it on anyone with their pvp flag on.
  • Sevas - Heavens Tear
    Sevas - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,132 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Demon Fox Form gives a 6 second 60% increase to movement speed. Couple that with maxed out Summer Sprint and the only class that has any hope of catching you (with out Holy Path) is a BM. Demon is supposed to be the better choice for PvP and even in PvE I love it. Demon Ironwood doesn't always cause a break, but when it does you don't want anyone to touch your debuff because that resets it to normal for whatever debuff the other player did. Demon Venomous Scarab also debuffs the target's Wood Resistance so that they take more damage. I also HIGHLY recommend getting your hands on Demon Bramble Guard if you can. When you can't put up Hood, that's your next best bet with 75% reflect.

    True, many barbs don't have ~15k HP in "caster" form. A rare few do though.
  • ColdSteele - Lost City
    ColdSteele - Lost City Posts: 265 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    answer is venos are definitely not underpowered. your scenary would be a damn good fight probly dependant upon skill and experience. Either way both are formidable.
    It's too bad but "free to play, pay to win"-sckye

    These "updates" are seeming more and more like downgrades.

    aryannamage: Not PWE GM's they are all greedy b:angry
  • Brael - Dreamweaver
    Brael - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,430 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    ColdSteele - Lost City wrote: »
    answer is venos are definitely not underpowered. your scenary would be a damn good fight probly dependant upon skill and experience. Either way both are formidable.

    We're a little below average actually, but not by much (by definition some will be below average, as long as you're close it doesn't matter). Going off the analysis Solandri used atleast.

    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=3895452&postcount=29

    See the PvP rankings.
  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Venos aren't underpowered and this isn't a good way to prove it.A sage or demon Barb vs the same Veno?You might have better luck using herc on the Barb.It really don't matter what armour you have as it would be best to kite way.
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
  • Zoe - Heavens Tear
    Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Venos aren't underpowered and this isn't a good way to prove it.A sage or demon Barb vs the same Veno?You might have better luck using herc on the Barb.It really don't matter what armour you have as it would be best to kite way.

    Oh I wouldn't say that. In last nights TW I was hitting 700s with fox skills on a barb in tiger form pulling a cata. 700s when I run arcane so my str is low. With high str I'd rip that barb to pieces.

    Let me put it in perspective

    Sage foxform

    150% more phy def in foxform

    Sage melee mastery

    200% more weapon damage in foxform

    Myriad Rainbow

    Chance of armor break and/or mind break

    Sage Leech

    100% chance to steal hp

    Lets not forget amplify damage so he takes even MORE damage, crush vigor to remove his chi, and the fact that foxform hits are very fast, building up fast chi letting you spark often.

    Why kite the barb when you can stand there, tank his hits, and beat him down with melee attacks and win.

    Stop running like cowards and learn to play your class!
    Main characters
    Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
    Sage Barbarian Malego - 91
  • Reikara - Heavens Tear
    Reikara - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,321 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    A veno being underpowered has nothing to do with taking out barbs. And I don't think we're underpowered at all. I coould take out a barb, but it'd take me awhile. I'd rather just run instead of wasting my charm. It'd just be mostly a charm ticking fest >_>
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • _Miku_ - Lost City
    _Miku_ - Lost City Posts: 100 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    ARRGGGG If u guys read the other post i posted oops i should have renamed it or something because it was surpose to be a question about barb vs veno not underpowered x-x
    Missleading name srryz
  • Solandri - Heavens Tear
    Solandri - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Sevas - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Demon Fox Form gives a 6 second 60% increase to movement speed. Couple that with maxed out Summer Sprint and the only class that has any hope of catching you (with out Holy Path) is a BM.

    Can someone clarify this? For some reason I'd thought until now that the movement speed increase from Demon Fox Form didn't stack with Summer Sprint. Something about a post I read long ago saying it was as fast as the slowest speed mount (5.1*1.6 = 8.2 m/s).

    But if they stack, then you have 5.1*(1 + 0.45 + 0.6) = 10.5 m/s, which is insanely fast for something that can be kept up 100% of the time in instances.
  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Oh I wouldn't say that. In last nights TW I was hitting 700s with fox skills on a barb in tiger form pulling a cata. 700s when I run arcane so my str is low. With high str I'd rip that barb to pieces.

    Let me put it in perspective

    Sage foxform

    150% more phy def in foxform

    Sage melee mastery

    200% more weapon damage in foxform

    Myriad Rainbow

    Chance of armor break and/or mind break

    Sage Leech

    100% chance to steal hp

    Lets not forget amplify damage so he takes even MORE damage, crush vigor to remove his chi, and the fact that foxform hits are very fast, building up fast chi letting you spark often.

    Why kite the barb when you can stand there, tank his hits, and beat him down with melee attacks and win.

    Stop running like cowards and learn to play your class!

    That is playing foxform. What about a nuking Veno demon and using herc instead of a nix.You could use a nix to.What pet were you using if any?
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
  • Zoe - Heavens Tear
    Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »
    That is playing foxform. What about a nuking Veno demon and using herc instead of a nix.You could use a nix to.What pet were you using if any?

    That wasn't including a pet at all.b:cool

    The question that this topic is based on is can a heavy veno beat a barb 1 on 1. A heavy veno can use foxform for a huge advantage, an arcane veno, not so much.

    Even though I'm the arcane veno that uses foxform all the time to take advantage of the boosts already mentioned. If I can hit 700s on barbs with my low str, imagine what a heavy veno with high str can do.
    Main characters
    Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
    Sage Barbarian Malego - 91
  • Brael - Dreamweaver
    Brael - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,430 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Well, you need to keep in mind that like light, a heavy veno actually loses damage using their skills opposed to just melee so it's not really a perfect comparison. Befuddle/Leech/Fox Wallop are all rather decent damage for arcane in fox form due to the high added damage, which is why we get good boosts off of them. In the case of arcane, losing auto attack damage to hit a skill is a negligable amount of damage lost, it's quite a bit more for people who can actually swing a weapon well.
  • Korren - Lost City
    Korren - Lost City Posts: 339 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    That wasn't including a pet at all.b:cool

    The question that this topic is based on is can a heavy veno beat a barb 1 on 1. A heavy veno can use foxform for a huge advantage, an arcane veno, not so much.

    Even though I'm the arcane veno that uses foxform all the time to take advantage of the boosts already mentioned. If I can hit 700s on barbs with my low str, imagine what a heavy veno with high str can do.
    -___- add 100 more str and u can hit 1000s..
    how can u take down a charmed barb w/ such a low DPS?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Zoe - Heavens Tear
    Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Korren - Lost City wrote: »
    -___- add 100 more str and u can hit 1000s..
    how can u take down a charmed barb w/ such a low DPS?

    My 700s did not include ANY debuffs or a pet. Do the math.b:bye
    Main characters
    Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
    Sage Barbarian Malego - 91
  • _Miku_ - Lost City
    _Miku_ - Lost City Posts: 100 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    so a heavy veno will do 1k damage+30% more from amp damage so 1300?
    O.o
    Is that enough damage?
  • Zoe - Heavens Tear
    Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    _Miku_ - Lost City wrote: »
    so a heavy veno will do 1k damage+30% more from amp damage so 1300?
    O.o
    Is that enough damage?

    Arcane veno, 700s with no debuffs or pet. Heavy veno with high str, a hell of a lot more damage with no debuffs, well above 1k. Throw on various debuffs and a pet, you have one dead barb.

    It just really amazes me how no one ever uses their class to its full potential.
    Main characters
    Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
    Sage Barbarian Malego - 91
  • Korren - Lost City
    Korren - Lost City Posts: 339 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Arcane veno, 700s with no debuffs or pet. Heavy veno with high str, a hell of a lot more damage with no debuffs, well above 1k. Throw on various debuffs and a pet, you have one dead barb.

    more str → less mag → not enuf mag for weapon → lower lvl weapon → less atk
    and how u beat a barb w/ 12k+ hp within 10seconds...
    since u can throw on various debuffs...the barb also stun u and run away while his HP gets low..
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Stunning blow freezes for 8 seconds, and a nix is faster than a barb. +mag equips are also common to enable weapon.
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • Alexeno - Sanctuary
    Alexeno - Sanctuary Posts: 1,006 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Korren - Lost City wrote: »
    more str → less mag → not enuf mag for weapon → lower lvl weapon → less atk
    and how u beat a barb w/ 12k+ hp within 10seconds...
    since u can throw on various debuffs...the barb also stun u and run away while his HP gets low..

    a heavy veno that uses lesser equips is not a heavy veno, its a fail character

    to be a heavy veno, it is required that you stack multiple equips that give good boosts to multiple stats (this gear is not hard to find, and crafting your own gear seems to produce alot of it)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Hell hath no fury like Alexeno trying to prove his point" -Mizuoni
  • Zoe - Heavens Tear
    Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    A proper heavy veno has enough str to use heavy gear for their level, AND enough magic to use the weapon best for their level.

    This really shows you do NOT know about venos.

    I almost ran that build myself. I was a mere 5 points short of using TT 90 heavy, and Wraith Conqueror weapon at the SAME TIME.
    Main characters
    Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
    Sage Barbarian Malego - 91
  • Korren - Lost City
    Korren - Lost City Posts: 339 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    A proper heavy veno has enough str to use heavy gear for their level, AND enough magic to use the weapon best for their level.

    This really shows you do NOT know about venos.

    I almost ran that build myself. I was a mere 5 points short of using TT 90 heavy, and Wraith Conqueror weapon at the SAME TIME.

    I never know u can get spare points to go for str w/ the weapon best for their level.
    b:shocked
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Obsessed - Heavens Tear
    Obsessed - Heavens Tear Posts: 670 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Korren - Lost City wrote: »
    I never know u can get spare points to go for str w/ the weapon best for their level.
    b:shocked
    *looks at my own gear*
    ... Yeah, it's possible, quite easily.
  • Korren - Lost City
    Korren - Lost City Posts: 339 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Obsessed - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    *looks at my own gear*
    ... Yeah, it's possible, quite easily.

    well. maybe.for most venoms, i dont think so.

    Im just curious how u get these points 'quite easily'?
    for a lv100 heavy wf. for TT99 armor,u need 250str 54dex . and for HH99 magic weapon 297mag.
    thats 601 points in total.which means u need to get 81 points from your gear.
    The aniversary event makes it much easier to build a heavy venom cuz of those capes and tomes.

    and lets back to the point.
    The question that this topic is based on is can a heavy veno beat a barb 1 on 1. A heavy veno can use foxform for a huge advantage, an arcane veno, not so much.

    Even though I'm the arcane veno that uses foxform all the time to take advantage of the boosts already mentioned. If I can hit 700s on barbs with my low str, imagine what a heavy veno with high str can do.
    str heavy wf FTW?
    U do rly think a heavy wf should fight in this way?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Obsessed - Heavens Tear
    Obsessed - Heavens Tear Posts: 670 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Korren - Lost City wrote: »
    well. maybe.for most venoms, i dont think so.
    The aniversary event makes it much easier to build a heavy venom cuz of those capes and tomes.

    and lets back to the point.

    str heavy wf FTW?

    It's pretty easy.. I dont have any of the event pack items. TT90cape, stat tome, demon panther rings(or magic rings w/12+ stats), lvl 86 quest belt reward(15-18stat), should be more than enough to wear tt90+90 weapon. That's not even factoring in a nice helm or necklace, and you'd still end up with left over stats to throw into vit.

    Secondly, I have about 4k patk with barb buff(tt99 gold glaive), melee can be pretty deadly, but I will agree no barb will sit still, and magic hits them harder anyways.
  • Abby_Sciuto - Sanctuary
    Abby_Sciuto - Sanctuary Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    McGee: Why would I give flowers to a dog that attacked me?
    Me: Um, maybe because dog is man's best friend. Or maybe because I'm a forensic scientist and I could boil you from the inside out and never leave a trace.

    b:victory
  • Zoe - Heavens Tear
    Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    The barb will move, so make them stay in one place. You have stunning blow, use it. I like that move because it stops people from running away, but does not stop them from hitting you back.
    Main characters
    Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
    Sage Barbarian Malego - 91
  • Solandri - Heavens Tear
    Solandri - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Korren - Lost City wrote: »
    Im just curious how u get these points 'quite easily'?
    for a lv100 heavy wf. for TT99 armor,u need 250str 54dex . and for HH99 magic weapon 297mag.
    thats 601 points in total.which means u need to get 81 points from your gear.
    The aniversary event makes it much easier to build a heavy venom cuz of those capes and tomes.
    We had a pretty good discussion about it long ago where Obsessed posted screenshots of his gear at 90.

    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=2199832#post2199832

    By my calc, once you factor in the stat bonuses from TT, legendary, and quest items (meaning you don't have to be lucky and find a unique item on AH), Obsessed only needed +31 stats from other gear at the time of that post. That's pretty easily attainable, albeit expensive. And looking back at it, the cape in those screenshots is only +4 str +4 mag, instead of the TT one with +9 str, mag, dex (+27 total). So that would drop the regular equipment requirement to just +12.

    The build is very difficult as a leveling build. Most of the early legendary gear with good +str, mag, dex is evasion stuff, so you really have to camp the AH. The Demon Panther Rings at 51 help a lot. But at 70 it becomes easier to pull off, at 80 it becomes much easier, and at 90 I'd say it's very easy. Just costs a lot for specific legendary and TT gear.
  • Sevas - Heavens Tear
    Sevas - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,132 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Can someone clarify this? For some reason I'd thought until now that the movement speed increase from Demon Fox Form didn't stack with Summer Sprint. Something about a post I read long ago saying it was as fast as the slowest speed mount (5.1*1.6 = 8.2 m/s).

    But if they stack, then you have 5.1*(1 + 0.45 + 0.6) = 10.5 m/s, which is insanely fast for something that can be kept up 100% of the time in instances.

    With just maxed out Summer Sprint I run at 7.0m/s. When I shift in and out of Fox Form I run at 9.8~9.9m/s. If I'd kept my Sleeves of Sea Captain, I ran at 10.2m/s. So I might be grabbing some speed gear.b:chuckle I like to run fast.
  • Vidalaire - Heavens Tear
    Vidalaire - Heavens Tear Posts: 389 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Demon Fox Form + Demon Summer Sprint = 10.4 m/s speed
  • Zoe - Heavens Tear
    Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Vidalaire - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Demon Fox Form + Demon Summer Sprint = 10.4 m/s speed

    Genie or speed pots, 15.0 m/s speed, don't need to lose my fox defense eat my mp or look stupid by switching all the time. Nor to I even need to run away.
    Main characters
    Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
    Sage Barbarian Malego - 91

Categories