Demon or Sage (PvE)

andracil
andracil Posts: 2,949 Arc User
edited September 2009 in Archer
Friend of mine is about to hit 89, and was wondering whether to go Sage or Demon. She wishes to focus on PvE. I ran a search to see what I could find, but no threads really gave an in-depth explanation which would be better, and most of them were focused on PvP anyway.
So, what's your opinion? ^_^
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Post edited by andracil on

Comments

  • Angel - Harshlands
    Angel - Harshlands Posts: 158 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    for pve, both are fine really, but if she does a lot of HH and fbs, that sage sharpened tooth is lovely.
    Also getting the skillbooks past the three basic 89 books are difficult, so if she plans to not reach 99, then the choice shouldn't really matter.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]youtube.com/Angelolwut
  • Ajani - Harshlands
    Ajani - Harshlands Posts: 1,170 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    Only 2 words needed:


    HELL SPARK
    PVP: 3800 kills in the name of KD lawl
    Retired as of 18/11/09
    Back as of 22/11/10
    Archer retired as of 26/12/10
  • Saveless - Harshlands
    Saveless - Harshlands Posts: 664 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    andracil wrote: »
    Friend of mine is about to hit 89, and was wondering whether to go Sage or Demon. She wishes to focus on PvE. I ran a search to see what I could find, but no threads really gave an in-depth explanation which would be better, and most of them were focused on PvP anyway.
    So, what's your opinion? ^_^

    Never imagined a mod making a thread asking for advice. b:shocked
  • DarkSniper - Lost City
    DarkSniper - Lost City Posts: 1,830 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    I know demon is much better for PvP but I if the focus is PvE then I'm not sure although like someone said sage sharpened tooth arrow is good for HH
    The only way to win is to quit. b:bye
  • Alyyy - Sanctuary
    Alyyy - Sanctuary Posts: 3,165 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    Saveless - Harshlands wrote: »
    Never imagined a mod making a thread asking for advice. b:shocked

    this....



    Archers are GODS in pvp so i woudl say demon all the way ._. ......


    >.< Discharge three Spark to recover 20% of your maximum HP,
    add 500% weapon damage and increase attack speed
    by 25% for 15 seconds. Grants invincibility for 3 seconds
    after the discharge.....b:shockedok i anounce archers as secondary nixes....(....phy dmg)

    + the winged shell is good o.o....and barage >_>.....omg....too much dmg >.<
    Clerics are like cops...they always seem to be around.....until you actually need one b:surrender - DeadRaven
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  • DarkSniper - Lost City
    DarkSniper - Lost City Posts: 1,830 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    lrn2read.


    She said PVE
    The only way to win is to quit. b:bye
  • Mosz - Heavens Tear
    Mosz - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,181 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    DarkSniper - Lost City wrote: »
    lrn2read.


    She said PVE

    in pve dealing massive damage doesnt matter? this carebear would like to argue otherwiseb:chuckle
  • Alyyy - Sanctuary
    Alyyy - Sanctuary Posts: 3,165 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    DarkSniper - Lost City wrote: »
    lrn2read.


    She said PVE

    >_>.......

    Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    in pve dealing massive damage doesnt matter? this carebear would like to argue otherwiseb:chuckle

    this.....
    Clerics are like cops...they always seem to be around.....until you actually need one b:surrender - DeadRaven
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • andracil
    andracil Posts: 2,949 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    I'm not asking advice, my friend is D:<
    But she doesn't like forums or something. In any case, she didn't want to ask here. xD
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    I don't think it matters much with genies.
    If you are a sage and want a rapid fire spark just use relentless courage during your spark.

    If you want chi gain as demon use cloud eruption (or get to 100 and use Awaken b:chuckle).

    If you are really missing something from the other side it's not hard to find a genie substitute.
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  • Yulk - Heavens Tear
    Yulk - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,951 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    I have no idea, but one thing i know, i got an archer, and he'd be sage b:pleased Also please sticky a certain guide please b:sad redsrose's genie guide deserves sticky
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    Thanks for Flauschkatze for siggy b:cool

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    HA > LA > AR... GG

    HA + VIT = win b:bye
  • Werebeasts - Sanctuary
    Werebeasts - Sanctuary Posts: 72 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    andracil wrote: »
    Friend of mine is about to hit 89, and was wondering whether to go Sage or Demon. She wishes to focus on PvE. I ran a search to see what I could find, but no threads really gave an in-depth explanation which would be better, and most of them were focused on PvP anyway.
    So, what's your opinion? ^_^

    a gm asking us a question? thats a bit suprising lol
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    Werebeasts - Sanctuary wrote: »
    a gm asking us a question? thats a bit suprising lol

    Someone not knowing the difference between a GM and a mod? Not very surprising I guess. Mods are volunteer players who help maintain civility on the forums.
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  • Werebeasts - Sanctuary
    Werebeasts - Sanctuary Posts: 72 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Someone not knowing the difference between a GM and a mod? Not very surprising I guess. Mods are volunteer players who help maintain civility on the forums.

    oh they are? lol ok that makes since
  • Saveless - Harshlands
    Saveless - Harshlands Posts: 664 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=263481

    b:victory
  • Cal - Harshlands
    Cal - Harshlands Posts: 111 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    Saveless - Harshlands wrote: »
    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=263481

    b:victory

    That is not a guide .... its just a rant.

    For pve, its more based on the how ur friend play. If he/she wanna do some tanking or play a diff style heaven is as gud.

    Archer = deal max dmg, is only gud for pvp.
    Squad cry at times coz i deal too much dmg and take aggro too fast. So in a pve sense, too much dmg is a boon as well as a bane.
    (usual shots "rings off; use another bow; u start dd after hp reach 20%, give herc 5 mins then dd .... )
    By the power of the alt lord ....
    I am ALT-MAN b:cool
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  • Ajani - Harshlands
    Ajani - Harshlands Posts: 1,170 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    Cal - Harshlands wrote: »
    That is not a guide .... its just a rant.

    For pve, its more based on the how ur friend play. If he/she wanna do some tanking or play a diff style heaven is as gud.

    Archer = deal max dmg, is only gud for pvp.
    Squad cry at times coz i deal too much dmg and take aggro too fast. So in a pve sense, too much dmg is a boon as well as a bane.
    (usual shots "rings off; use another bow; u start dd after hp reach 20%, give herc 5 mins then dd .... )

    Thats an awesome guide -.-

    Only good thing about Sage for pve is sharp. U need 99 and loads of luck to get it. Go demon and enjoy ur hell sparky thingyb:kiss
    PVP: 3800 kills in the name of KD lawl
    Retired as of 18/11/09
    Back as of 22/11/10
    Archer retired as of 26/12/10
  • Suiryujin - Sanctuary
    Suiryujin - Sanctuary Posts: 449 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    i would suggest demon just for the extra dps on bosses because of the attack speed boost.
    archer on high lvl with a decently refined wpn (+5 or higher) can handle most pve mobs with just frost/knockback/stun demon/sage doesnt really make a difference.
    only thing i see that might be useful when grinding is the free chi from sage for when you are trying to grind using winged shell and frost arrow and need more chi.

    >.> of course if u really want max dps get a fist archer using -.1 interval bracer and rank 4 la top, with demon spark you will outdmg everything over time except maybe nixes on 75% reduction bosses. once u start sparking on a single target, u can keep sparking every 30 seconds or so. u can use blazing arrow with a bow 1st then switch to fist, the blazing arrow stays. its amusing when u use fist on fire immune boss, you dont see the resist symbol but everyone else sees it XD flood their screen with resists with the 2.5atk/sec under spark.
    My body is made of swords.
    Iron is my blood, and glass is my heart.
    I have overcome countless battlefields undefeated,
    Without once retreating,
    Nor once being understood.
    Always alone, intoxicated with victory on the hill of swords.
    Therefore, there is no meaning to that life.
    Perhaps this body is nothing but a sword itself.
  • Faildom - Harshlands
    Faildom - Harshlands Posts: 297 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Demon obviouslyb:chuckle
  • Absoluth - Heavens Tear
    Absoluth - Heavens Tear Posts: 764 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Hey ami ^^

    Well, our friend decided to go sage. She asked another friend, a lv 101 sage archer and he told her the 15% extra weap mastery and 10% extra blaze is really helpful PvE-wise, not to mention 4% less hp from bosses.
    Personally i think its a waste. In terms of rebirth, i rather kill faster and maybe pull apot dmg reduction pots on hard times. On skull bosses, i dont see how 15% weap dmg is gonna do more good than a constant 12% more crits (2% from passives, 10% from alternating stun/sharp tooth every 10 secs). Even in pve, i rather go demon considering all skills.

    PvP-wise, the demon crits+speed are just awesome.
    PWI:
    "Free to play. Pay to win"

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  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Absoluth - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Hey ami ^^

    Well, our friend decided to go sage. She asked another friend, a lv 101 sage archer and he told her the 15% extra weap mastery and 10% extra blaze is really helpful PvE-wise, not to mention 4% less hp from bosses.
    Personally i think its a waste. In terms of rebirth, i rather kill faster and maybe pull apot dmg reduction pots on hard times. On skull bosses, i dont see how 15% weap dmg is gonna do more good than a constant 12% more crits (2% from passives, 10% from alternating stun/sharp tooth every 10 secs). Even in pve, i rather go demon considering all skills.

    PvP-wise, the demon crits+speed are just awesome.
    The added 15 % weapon attack and 10% extra blazing translate into about 5% more damage from sage than demon for a lvl 100 full dex archer. This percentage is just from how much dex you have and not how highly refined your weapon is.

    Demon barrage makes rebirth delta fairly easy. Mobs die very quickly and the squishy wiz rarely holds much aggro.
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  • Absoluth - Heavens Tear
    Absoluth - Heavens Tear Posts: 764 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    The added 15 % weapon attack and 10% extra blazing translate into about 5% more damage from sage than demon for a lvl 100 full dex archer. This percentage is just from how much dex you have and not how highly refined your weapon is.

    Demon barrage makes rebirth delta fairly easy. Mobs die very quickly and the squishy wiz rarely holds much aggro.
    I see. I thought the skills applied to weapon damage, not the dexterity. So those % wouldnt give that much advantage to a sage when talking about, lets say for the sake of argument, a +12 ultimate xbow? I mean, a 15% extra from that weapon would be considerable.
    PWI:
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  • Devoted - Lost City
    Devoted - Lost City Posts: 3,634 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    15% weapon damage is very small compared to 12+ crit even with a +12 grade 13 bow. www.pwcalc.ru/pwi if you wanna look at the actual numbers
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    I've been posting this alot but you have to really look at the damage formula to get what weapon attack means

    Base damage = (1 + 2/3 (Dex/100) + Mastery +[any other added weapon attack %])*(weapon attack)

    This is the damage shown in your sheet when you hit c and that is the damage you do to mobs with 0 physical resist. If you are a full dex archer at level 100 you have lets say like 450 dex.

    The left hand side becomes

    (1 + 2/3 (450/100) + ... )* weapon attack.
    (1+3+mastery) * weapon attack.

    For demon bow mastery with demon 50% blazing you have
    (1+3+0.75+0.5) * weapon attack
    (5.25) * weapon attack

    For sage the multiplier on the left becomes
    (1+3+0.9+0.6) * weapon attack
    (5.5) * weapon attack

    So sage's 5.5 attack multiplier is 4.7% higher than demon's 5.25 multiplier. The more dex you have the less the relative difference.

    When a skill like take aim adds 400% weapon attack... you add 4 to the multiplier... so demon take aim is
    5.25 + 4 = 9.25... 9.25 is 76% higher than the base multiplier of 5.25

    So a demon take aim skill is 76% more powerful than a normal shot.

    If you want to calculate the numbers in your sheet exactly the weapon attack is

    attack on weapon + garnet shards + rings + your level

    A perfect garnet shard that adds 40 damage gets multiplied by 5.25 to add 210 damage to every shot. This makes it better than a grade 12 elemental shard which only adds a flat 200 damage (which is why elemental shards suck).
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  • Bearleeable - Lost City
    Bearleeable - Lost City Posts: 445 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Absoluth - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Hey ami ^^

    Well, our friend decided to go sage. She asked another friend, a lv 101 sage archer and he told her the 15% extra weap mastery and 10% extra blaze is really helpful PvE-wise, not to mention 4% less hp from bosses.
    Personally i think its a waste. In terms of rebirth, i rather kill faster and maybe pull apot dmg reduction pots on hard times. On skull bosses, i dont see how 15% weap dmg is gonna do more good than a constant 12% more crits (2% from passives, 10% from alternating stun/sharp tooth every 10 secs). Even in pve, i rather go demon considering all skills.

    PvP-wise, the demon crits+speed are just awesome.

    repeated ST? WTH, my understanding is reusing it after 30 secs resets max hp?
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  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Bearleeable - Lost City wrote: »
    repeated ST? WTH, my understanding is reusing it after 30 secs resets max hp?

    After the first shot the decreased max HP effect is fairly meaningless. Demon tooth though has a badass 15s 10% crit buff that is fun to have on.
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  • GunShoT - Dreamweaver
    GunShoT - Dreamweaver Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    demon of course...
    D.SPARK + DEADLY SHOT = INSTANT KILLb:pleased

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