How to be a good Venomancer (In dungeons)
Comments
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Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »I don't think that's how it works. I just tested it on orchid petalli with level 8 befuddling mist (-60% accuracy) and level 10 blinding sand (-70% accuracy). My herc still got hit. Yes it was melee hits - they took reflect damage. I suspect the % reduction is multiplicative. That is, 60% reduction + 70% reduction doesn't give 130% reduction. It gives [1 - (1-0.6)*(1-0.7)] = 88% reduction. For most tanks (my herc has 971 evasion) this comes nowhere near eliminating every hit. I tried the combo in TT1-1 for a bit, and my herc was hit almost every time.
Someone said it's bugged and doesn't work on bosses. Anyone know for sure? I haven't leveled this one up (my chi goes to the tank or to sparks), so it's difficult for me to test.
Part one. Yes. It does work. I tested it on a player and a mob. Player had precisely 0 accuracy. It calculates off your base accuracy, so any buffs to Acc will not create the same effect.
Part two. Yes, Fox Wallop doesn't work on Bosses. Minibosses, on the other hand, yes.0 -
How is it that mobs are still able to hit me and my pets with both effects on then?Isala - Sanctuary wrote: »Part one. Yes. It does work. I tested it on a player and a mob. Player had precisely 0 accuracy. It calculates off your base accuracy, so any buffs to Acc will not create the same effect.0 -
Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »How is it that mobs are still able to hit me and my pets with both effects on then?
Are you using it on a single mob? Or are you trying to use it on a group? Also, I have both maxed, so maybe that makes a difference. I've never had a problem with it at all. Even on archer mobs it still has the same effect.0 -
Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »I don't think that's how it works. I just tested it on orchid petalli with level 8 befuddling mist (-60% accuracy) and level 10 blinding sand (-70% accuracy). My herc still got hit. Yes it was melee hits - they took reflect damage. I suspect the % reduction is multiplicative. That is, 60% reduction + 70% reduction doesn't give 130% reduction. It gives [1 - (1-0.6)*(1-0.7)] = 88% reduction. For most tanks (my herc has 971 evasion) this comes nowhere near eliminating every hit. I tried the combo in TT1-1 for a bit, and my herc was hit almost every time.
When I use those 2 skills, and I have my petali or pup or sawfly, even golem or scorpion, what I end up seeing is "miss, miss, miss, miss, miss" for 8 seconds.... on a bad run, maybe my pet gets hit once. If I only use one of the two alone, than the "miss ratio" seems to be just about 50%. It also seems to miss more at the begining of the cycle (when you cast both at same time), than towards the end of the 8 seconds (almost as if the effects did not really lasted 8 seconds).
I never use that on with my herc, since I need the reflect to hold aggro, so I never tested it on the herc tanking.
The tank I usualy do TT runs with, says it helps.... So I use that combo alot... Next run I will ask him how often does it really miss though.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
Well that's really weird. I tested it again with my cub and with myself. It definitely works like you say with the cub and myself. I tried it with my herc without any buffs, and it works there too, though the herc still got hit once (this was right after I applied the debuffs, so it definitely wasn't the debuffs expiring).
But once I buff my herc, I never see a "miss" above it. All I see are hits. If there's a miss, I just assumed there's simply no damage score. And the two debuffs don't seem to affect the rate at which my herc gets hit any. Like a tradeoff for having buffed pdef is the herc's evasion gets set to zero. Maybe someone with Strong on a regular pet can test it to see if it has the same effect.
BTW, you guys owe me 2.6% exp for testing all this out, from the three deaths. b:chuckle0 -
Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »Well that's really weird. I tested it again with my cub and with myself. It definitely works like you say with the cub and myself. I tried it with my herc without any buffs, and it works there too, though the herc still got hit once (this was right after I applied the debuffs, so it definitely wasn't the debuffs expiring).
But once I buff my herc, I never see a "miss" above it. All I see are hits. If there's a miss, I just assumed there's simply no damage score. And the two debuffs don't seem to affect the rate at which my herc gets hit any. Like a tradeoff for having buffed pdef is the herc's evasion gets set to zero. Maybe someone with Strong on a regular pet can test it to see if it has the same effect.
BTW, you guys owe me 2.6% exp for testing all this out, from the three deaths. b:chuckle
Pm me in-game and I will give you a exo scroll for your toubles
Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
Oops, I forgot a few other things
Always keep summer sprint up. More movement speed is good. Makes it a lot easier to out run enemies and avoid getting hit. I usually tie it in at the end of my attack macros so that I don't have to push summer sprint every 5 minutes because I'm just that lazy, lol... There's no reason why not to have it up.
As for debuffing, another thing that might help protect yourself better is to do the debuffs, run out of the range of the enemy, switch back to human form and then start casting your Ironwood/Venom Scarab, etc. It should hopefully keep you out of range of the short ranged AOE and makes things less crowded around the tank. Crowded around the tank = bad. Makes things more annoying for the clerics and increases chance of death from an AOE.Induction ID (Doomsbog): 3080068X031808024008351Z3f4d220 -
Kitsuneh - Lost City wrote: »This was meant to lower lvl Venos like Reikara said.
I know I was makign a small joke. I never take anything seriously .. ever. >.>[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Character Roster:
Gwendolynne : 101/SageVeno - Xyleena : 102/DemonCleric
Delecroix : 101/DemonSin - Anatoxin : 9x/SagePsy
Raevynne : 100/DemonBM - GotMeTwisted : 8x/SageSeeker
Deicidea : 8x/Mystic - Diva : 95/SageBM/Retired0 -
Reikara - Heavens Tear wrote: »While we're at it, has anyone here ever had their herc randomly run off, even though he has full loyalty. I mean, he'll run off and attack a mob, that's at a far enough distance to not even aggro you. It's happened quite a few times in dungeons and normal grinding, always ends up with a bad outcome.
Happens sometimes, soon after a mob is down my pet attacks to another.. creepy and deadly.0 -
Is that a bug or something we have to live with? o_o
Edit: Holy flying veno pigs.
I honestly didn't expect this thread to attract this many posts or attention. Will try best to keep it updated b:sweat
I come home late from work pretty much buggered these days, always caught up on dailies. Always got 3-4 bounty hunters, 2 world quests and CS.. @_@
I'll gradually turn this into a full-fledge hard-core informative/credbile guide with more input and i'll add more sections.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Yeah, it's a good thread. Lots of things for me to learn to do better.
Let's see, there's some general tips on good dungeon play:
The cleric, especially, is slow. Wait for the cleric. Or hey, throw them a holy path occasionally!
If someone asks you to do something you've not done before - make sure that you understand what they want. Don't pull the wrong monster!
Edit: If you're not sure that you CAN do it, tell the team. They may have a Plan-B available. But do try new things
If you need to navigate carefully (hugging the wall, clapping hands, jumping over the edge of ledges especially) then put your pet away. If you jump off a ledge and your pet tries to get to you by running all the way around, then bad things will happen.
Always ALWAYS check your team is ok for you to pull. Nothing worse than pulling the big bad guy moments before the barb says "AFK: Gotta potty"
And it helps, especially on fast monsters, if you say WHAT you are pulling.0 -
Added, made a new section xD
Generally you'll find most clerics will have holy path, especially now that barbs run as fast as V8s.
What I meant before, when my herc randomly runs off is that there was absolutly no reason for it to. No mob nearby has aggroed it, let alone looked at it. He has full loyalty, and this has happened when he's been on mannnual and auto attack. I've not clicked the attack button, I didn't even have the mob selected.
Maybe my herc just has too much testosterone?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Reikara - Heavens Tear wrote: »While we're at it, has anyone here ever had their herc randomly run off, even though he has full loyalty. I mean, he'll run off and attack a mob, that's at a far enough distance to not even aggro you. It's happened quite a few times in dungeons and normal grinding, always ends up with a bad outcome.
haaa... the attack mad pet
Had the issue with the golem (cant remember other pets doing that), and herc does it sometimes
It Always happens when i finish a group of mobs ( 6 + mobs in AOE)
Herc would be on defensive.
when the last one is finished, he just runs off to some mobs way far.. not the one close i intended to kill So just collar him and get him passive, or deal with the mob
Always thought that maybe that particular mob had bad breath or eyed the wrong way herc
so Herc is called Ducon 2 ( Magmite was ducon 1) (French expression for R e t a r d)I look at all the trollers, and Pvpers.. and know they wouldnt have lasted 30sec on Camelot.
Rules= Know your enemy (players and NPCs) gives you more chances to survive.0 -
Mine do it too sometimes specially after kill some mobs at same time and my bf ask me where he go? O_o
reply idk baby maybe is bored or seeking for a gf ..........
b:chuckles[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Arshies - Sanctuary0 -
I'm not really sure here, but, that running off thing happens with my pet when it's on defensive and just after it has finished off more than one mob. It generally goes after a mob that has just spawned, so I think it has something to do with the game 'recycling' mobs (you see sometimes when they spawn they have DoT over them for a moment, ect). Even though your pet has killed it, it still remembers that the mob was attacking. When the mob respawns, "Oh, gotta go after it, it was attacking!".
Just my two cents... I have no clue how the game actually works.
Also, for the fact that magmites and hercs are usally the victims-- what do you generally AoE several mobs with? The tanks.
Edit: It has happened with my puppy before... I think. But then again, I like to treat all my pets like tanks. -.-'''' IIRC, it was when I was fighting more than one.
Also, for the fact that they always don't go out and kill random mobs-- I think once the pet comes back to you, the 'mobs to kill' list is wiped.
I'm gonna go test all this now. >>'
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Went and tested the 'mobs to kill' thing, and, even when the pet is on defensive, when you /give/ it a command it wipes the list. I aggro'd two mobs and had a barb friend of mine pick one off and just let it attack him. I started giving my pets orders for the first mob, and, after mob #1 was killed, my pet came back to me, completely ignoring the one that had attacked me before.
Same applies to the pet runnning off randomly. I wasn't able to recreate that until I stopped giving my pet orders (meaning even when I took aggro I just stood there and spammed event food). But my pet went after the same type of mob I was testing it on (ignoring other types of mobs in the area that it hadn't attacked before).
Note that my pet was on defensive the entire time.
Hope this helps prevent it for those of you that find it annoying. ^^'0 -
Reikara - Heavens Tear wrote: »
don't be too far away from your pet or it will plop right next to you, and all mobs that aggroed on sight will run towards you.
Flauschkatze.
Spelled Flauschkatze wrong, nice guide b:victoryIt's a bunny :O
./)_/)
(>'.'<)
((")("))0 -
You should seriously make this into a guide, so many venos are bad >< It's sad but true.
With sections on luring, tanking, squad etiquette, etc.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
7. If you're herc tanking a boss, and another veno said she needs you to heal it. For frick's sake heal it. Hercs aren't all godly.
I love this situacions, because if I haven't Herc to tank I want to do something helpfull too.
Be cleric for one gold& sexy guy isn't bad idea in others ways... b:dirty
Aww, I always buffed all party O.O I'm SO BAD VENO!! I'M MUST DIE NOW FOR MY SINS! NAAAH!! >w<My chars: 97 barb, 87 cleric, 91 veno, 80 archer, 74 Blademaster, 34 Psychic, 30 Assasin, 20 Wizard, 44 Seeker, 20 Mistyc.
^ I have SO many personalities to play them all! b:cute
And YAY for my Phoenix!(on THIS veno ^^) b:victory0 -
1. why isn't this a stickey b:angry
great guide! b:victory I think are things every veno should get to learn!
2. I always used to bramble clerics too...b:surrender
except for one.. he doesn't like "hula hoops" they went out of fashion years ago!
-.- b:chuckle[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks Silvychar for the awesome sig
Characters:
waterfal - lvl 90 demon ferrari veno
Hazumi_chan - lvl 9x sage seeker0 -
Lol, I used to do it going back as far as level 60s but every cleric nearly bit my hand off every time. They hate it since it can draw a good aggro in the slight chance the barb may have missed or they just managed to accidently pull aggro from a near-by mob.
The tank and squad members can be exeptionally good at their part, but these things still happen. Bramble can just turn things ugly for them, and since they're not tanking there's no real need for them to have it.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
hey great guide. But u said never cast a bramble on a cleric, it may be right, but at bosses like drum or soulbansiher the reflect help a bit on the cleric, cus it reflect some of the dmg, and by the time u guys have killed the boss the bramble has faded away. So u should def bramble the cleric at the drum and sb boss:)0
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hey great guide. But u said never cast a bramble on a cleric, it may be right, but at bosses like drum or soulbansiher the reflect help a bit on the cleric, cus it reflect some of the dmg, and by the time u guys have killed the boss the bramble has faded away. So u should def bramble the cleric at the drum and sb boss:)
Brumble only reflects physical melee damage. So it does not work on AOEs, like drum.
It does not work on ranged attacks either. (long time ago it used to, but Archers complained too much and it was removed).
That is why there is no point in putting on the clerics, unless it is a Heavy Cleric tanking those bosses....Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »Brumble only reflects physical melee damage. So it does not work on AOEs, like drum.
-Wrong.
The rest is just fluff to make minimum post requirementsBe kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0 -
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Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »IceJazmin is talking about casting Bramble Guard on clerics. You're probably thinking of Bramble Hood - the self-only get out of death free card.
I've never heard that bramble guard works on Physical AoEs. It doesn't make sense. It's ranged. Just like archer mobs. Those don't have deflect either.0 -
Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »IceJazmin is talking about casting Bramble Guard on clerics. You're probably thinking of Bramble Hood - the self-only get out of death free card.
Unless they changed it, Bramble Guard reflects the AoE on the bosses mentioned.Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0 -
Isala - Sanctuary wrote: »Edit: Reivi. Is it true the rumors about Feral Concentration? Supposedly if you use an Anti-Stun Genie skill, and then use FC, you'll be invincible without the stun.
anti stun pot or genie skill + feral works fine... i've been using that combination a lot for dungeons run and pvp/pking ... once u get ur 3rd spark... u can chain feral and hood.... 25 sec of "invuln" FTW ^_^ (well ur not really invinc with hood, but its close enough with the dmg reduction)0 -
Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »Repeat this or the pet-attacks-while-you-run trick to buy more time. Usually you can give the cleric more than enough time to res and buff the tank. After which (assuming your tank is a barb) he can just use Roar to get the boss' aggro back. If nothing, keeping the pet around will let it occupy the boss for a few extra hits, giving your cleric a precious second or two to res the tank.
I carry a few around (they stack). If you're doing an instanced run and the cleric doesn't have one, give him/her one. If you wipe, you don't want to be wasting time waiting for the cleric to run back.
Really great info Solandri. I also carry a stack of rez scrolls just for this reason.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Great guide, thanks @OP and contributors. Suggestion (don't know if it's come up as i didn't read the whole thread) shouldn't you include something bout sparking? Lending Hand is a great help to any squad and not always should it only be used on the barb when tanking a boss. A small discussion on when it's better to use it to aid which skills/classes and when to keep it for yourself might make a nice addition.0
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