How to be a good Venomancer (In dungeons)
Reikara - Heavens Tear
Posts: 1,321 Arc User
1. Don't cast bramble on everyone. Clerics especially will hate you for it.
Bramble may reflect melee damage, but it should only ever be cast on the tanks like the barbarians and blademasters. Reflecting damage will draw aggro from a mob, thus making the tank's job harder if he's running after archers, venos or his own healer who's being attacked.
2. Don't cast a lower level bramble over a higher level bramble. Just don't >_>
Bramble can be maxed at level 59, if they're 60, and you're 30, dont cast bramble.
3. Don't randomly aoe the **** outta things thinking the tank will come save you. He'll more likley let you die out of your own stupidity. Cleric too.
4. You can't pull mobs with magic. Pull. With. Your. Pet.
5. Run. Being a veno dosen't make you invincible. If a mobs after you, your pet just died, dont be a dickbrain and stand there reviving it.
Kinda sorta gotta add my own interjection to this. It's really a case of "Know Your Mob." For instance. Say it's a Melee mob after me. Being LA hybrid, and having a genie specifically for FBs, it's a simple matter for me to Switch to Fox, Use Blinding Sand on my Genie, and Befuddling Mist in Fox Form, which does, in fact, grant invincibility, as long as you keep it up. The mob will have 0 Accuracy, meaning everything is a miss. Now... Magic? To hell with that. I'm taking off the instant it looks at me.
-Isala.
If a veno has drawn aggro, run in circles AROUND the tank (haven't figured out how to do this in the air/water when I'm very slow in moving + the 3D aspect of it). Don't run off away from the tank like a headless chicken, forcing the tank to chase you to get the mobs off you, espeically if you're heading for the cleric. It can also be done with your pet as the tank. It'll make it that much easier for the tank to pull the mob off you and back onto him. It's a nifty little tactic that has saved my **** a few times when I pull aggro off my pet.
-iceknave.
6. If the tank has a luring skill on his genie, let him pull. He's got more HP and defense than you, and it's much safer. Kick back and relax.
When it comes to bosses, or other more tricky/difficult situations; you're the lurer.
Veno lure:
Spawn pet (NO REFLECT ON)
Send pet to atttack the target u want to pull (normal attack preferred)
Once the pet has hit the target once hit ''STOW'' in pet window.
This will unsummon the pet. right after you hit STOW, SUMMON it AGAIN and attack it when its getting near. also barb can take aggro once u pulled it. -Faildom.
don't be too far away from your pet or it will plop right next to you, and all mobs that aggroed on sight will run towards you.
Flauschkatze.
7. If you're herc tanking a boss, and another veno said she needs you to heal it. For frick's sake heal it. Hercs aren't all godly.
Boss situation: If the only tank (bm/barb) dies and you have only 1 cleric in your squad, unsummon your pet unless you can use it as a tank. You propably pull aggro with your pet > pet dies and you draw aggro> cleric start healing you > you die even when cleric heals you > cleric draws aggro > cleric dies = party wipe-Kitsuneh.
^Gotta disagree with this one. The cleric probably already has aggro from healing the tank. In every case I can think of where I've healed a pet and it died, I got aggro. So unsummoning it will just hasten your party's demise.
As a veno you have a combination of advantages no other class has. You can run pretty fast without a genie skill, you can run away from an aggroed boss without taking any damage (your pet tanks it for you), and you can run away while keeping the boss stationary (leave your pet attacking or parked).
If the tank dies and the only way to recover from the situation is for your cleric to res the tank, you want your pet to have aggro. You run away as far as you can, and before your pet gets killed, switch it to follow mode. It will start running, and the boss will start chasing. In most cases this means your pet stops taking damage entirely, or only takes one hit every few seconds. Between your fast running speed and Holy Path (if you have it on your genie), you can usually keep your pet healed while doing this, especially if it's a herc.
A good trick is to switch the pet back to attack mode, hit Holy Path and run as far away as you can. Your pet will warp to you, set it back to follow mode if it tries to go back to the boss (it shouldn't, but if it does). While the boss now tries to close the distance with your pet, heal it up. Then take off running again until the boss catches up.
Repeat this or the pet-attacks-while-you-run trick to buy more time. Usually you can give the cleric more than enough time to res and buff the tank. After which (assuming your tank is a barb) he can just use Roar to get the boss' aggro back. If nothing, keeping the pet around will let it occupy the boss for a few extra hits, giving your cleric a precious second or two to res the tank. -Solandri.
8. Debuff. Kills faster, party will love you for it, you'll get invited to more FBs, job satisfaction. If you dont have fox form, purge or amplify damage, get them and max them. I dont care what your build is, max them.
ohh and for the debuffing part..like amplify dmg: Just dont, and I really mean dont use it when the boss uses a mass aoe attack. Because of the close distance you probably die or just get hit. When you do this a few times, youre dead cuz the cleric is just dont gonna heal you (youre just being stupid).
EvilDragon.
Just to add on to what EvilDragon suggested, it's also depending on the situation and your build. You'll find with experience that most of these things aren't applicable or work in different ways depending on varying factors. Generally, mage venomancers are considered the most squishy and what EvilDragon said would be applicable. However, if it's a massive phys aoe and you're a light or heavy fox this is where you come in. You should be able to take the damage in fox form easy. If it's a magic aoe, switch to robes.
Things that help you be a good veno in a party .
Always have a suicidal pet for luring (one that runs fast or can take 1-2 shots before hitting the one you want)
- Always Be carefull of the distances, and the moving targets. ie= you want to lure, your pet goes to the target, but the target has moved beyond the distance limit... and your pet is TP to you..and you get all the aggros at you (happens even at high level and after having done tons of luring)
At high level take those skills =
- Bramble hood, all venos should have it as soon as possible (even if you dont intend to solo FBs)
At 79 the 3 skills have their utility
- Feral concentration = makes you invincible for 10 seconds ( but you cant move nor cast- 3 sec cast) when luring some bosses for the barb.. you wont take a hit and the barb has enough time to take the aggro back
- Myriad rainbow = cost lot of mana and chi, but will help you quicken the death of any boss (the rainbow is a random 0 to 4 curses = 4.5k bleed DOT, 4.5k poison DOT, 100 % break Phy armor, 100 % magic armor break last 9 sec)
- myriad rainbow fox, is the same as above, but with a close range aoe effect, usefull if you want to be part of a zhen party and on some other rare occasions.
If you can afford them ( by buying the apoc pages or farming them) go for the first 2.
-Reivi.
9. Make sure the tank always has bramble.
10. Make sure the cleric never has bramble.
11. Don't cast bramble on everyone.
I'd add carrying a couple of res scrolls around. If you die and the one cleric in the squad is furiously healing the tank/rest of squad, no one involved really wants the cleric to stop healing and res you.
-Aeode.
~~~General hints, helpage and tips~~~~
Let's see, there's some general tips on good dungeon play:
The cleric, especially, is slow. Wait for the cleric. Or hey, throw them a holy path occasionally!
If someone asks you to do something you've not done before - make sure that you understand what they want. Don't pull the wrong monster!
Edit: If you're not sure that you CAN do it, tell the team. They may have a Plan-B available. But do try new things
If you need to navigate carefully (hugging the wall, clapping hands, jumping over the edge of ledges especially) then put your pet away. If you jump off a ledge and your pet tries to get to you by running all the way around, then bad things will happen.
Always ALWAYS check your team is ok for you to pull. Nothing worse than pulling the big bad guy moments before the barb says "AFK: Gotta potty"
And it helps, especially on fast monsters, if you say WHAT you are pulling. -Vitenka.
End.
Bramble may reflect melee damage, but it should only ever be cast on the tanks like the barbarians and blademasters. Reflecting damage will draw aggro from a mob, thus making the tank's job harder if he's running after archers, venos or his own healer who's being attacked.
2. Don't cast a lower level bramble over a higher level bramble. Just don't >_>
Bramble can be maxed at level 59, if they're 60, and you're 30, dont cast bramble.
3. Don't randomly aoe the **** outta things thinking the tank will come save you. He'll more likley let you die out of your own stupidity. Cleric too.
4. You can't pull mobs with magic. Pull. With. Your. Pet.
5. Run. Being a veno dosen't make you invincible. If a mobs after you, your pet just died, dont be a dickbrain and stand there reviving it.
Kinda sorta gotta add my own interjection to this. It's really a case of "Know Your Mob." For instance. Say it's a Melee mob after me. Being LA hybrid, and having a genie specifically for FBs, it's a simple matter for me to Switch to Fox, Use Blinding Sand on my Genie, and Befuddling Mist in Fox Form, which does, in fact, grant invincibility, as long as you keep it up. The mob will have 0 Accuracy, meaning everything is a miss. Now... Magic? To hell with that. I'm taking off the instant it looks at me.
-Isala.
If a veno has drawn aggro, run in circles AROUND the tank (haven't figured out how to do this in the air/water when I'm very slow in moving + the 3D aspect of it). Don't run off away from the tank like a headless chicken, forcing the tank to chase you to get the mobs off you, espeically if you're heading for the cleric. It can also be done with your pet as the tank. It'll make it that much easier for the tank to pull the mob off you and back onto him. It's a nifty little tactic that has saved my **** a few times when I pull aggro off my pet.
-iceknave.
6. If the tank has a luring skill on his genie, let him pull. He's got more HP and defense than you, and it's much safer. Kick back and relax.
When it comes to bosses, or other more tricky/difficult situations; you're the lurer.
Veno lure:
Spawn pet (NO REFLECT ON)
Send pet to atttack the target u want to pull (normal attack preferred)
Once the pet has hit the target once hit ''STOW'' in pet window.
This will unsummon the pet. right after you hit STOW, SUMMON it AGAIN and attack it when its getting near. also barb can take aggro once u pulled it. -Faildom.
don't be too far away from your pet or it will plop right next to you, and all mobs that aggroed on sight will run towards you.
Flauschkatze.
7. If you're herc tanking a boss, and another veno said she needs you to heal it. For frick's sake heal it. Hercs aren't all godly.
Boss situation: If the only tank (bm/barb) dies and you have only 1 cleric in your squad, unsummon your pet unless you can use it as a tank. You propably pull aggro with your pet > pet dies and you draw aggro> cleric start healing you > you die even when cleric heals you > cleric draws aggro > cleric dies = party wipe-Kitsuneh.
^Gotta disagree with this one. The cleric probably already has aggro from healing the tank. In every case I can think of where I've healed a pet and it died, I got aggro. So unsummoning it will just hasten your party's demise.
As a veno you have a combination of advantages no other class has. You can run pretty fast without a genie skill, you can run away from an aggroed boss without taking any damage (your pet tanks it for you), and you can run away while keeping the boss stationary (leave your pet attacking or parked).
If the tank dies and the only way to recover from the situation is for your cleric to res the tank, you want your pet to have aggro. You run away as far as you can, and before your pet gets killed, switch it to follow mode. It will start running, and the boss will start chasing. In most cases this means your pet stops taking damage entirely, or only takes one hit every few seconds. Between your fast running speed and Holy Path (if you have it on your genie), you can usually keep your pet healed while doing this, especially if it's a herc.
A good trick is to switch the pet back to attack mode, hit Holy Path and run as far away as you can. Your pet will warp to you, set it back to follow mode if it tries to go back to the boss (it shouldn't, but if it does). While the boss now tries to close the distance with your pet, heal it up. Then take off running again until the boss catches up.
Repeat this or the pet-attacks-while-you-run trick to buy more time. Usually you can give the cleric more than enough time to res and buff the tank. After which (assuming your tank is a barb) he can just use Roar to get the boss' aggro back. If nothing, keeping the pet around will let it occupy the boss for a few extra hits, giving your cleric a precious second or two to res the tank. -Solandri.
8. Debuff. Kills faster, party will love you for it, you'll get invited to more FBs, job satisfaction. If you dont have fox form, purge or amplify damage, get them and max them. I dont care what your build is, max them.
ohh and for the debuffing part..like amplify dmg: Just dont, and I really mean dont use it when the boss uses a mass aoe attack. Because of the close distance you probably die or just get hit. When you do this a few times, youre dead cuz the cleric is just dont gonna heal you (youre just being stupid).
EvilDragon.
Just to add on to what EvilDragon suggested, it's also depending on the situation and your build. You'll find with experience that most of these things aren't applicable or work in different ways depending on varying factors. Generally, mage venomancers are considered the most squishy and what EvilDragon said would be applicable. However, if it's a massive phys aoe and you're a light or heavy fox this is where you come in. You should be able to take the damage in fox form easy. If it's a magic aoe, switch to robes.
Things that help you be a good veno in a party .
Always have a suicidal pet for luring (one that runs fast or can take 1-2 shots before hitting the one you want)
- Always Be carefull of the distances, and the moving targets. ie= you want to lure, your pet goes to the target, but the target has moved beyond the distance limit... and your pet is TP to you..and you get all the aggros at you (happens even at high level and after having done tons of luring)
At high level take those skills =
- Bramble hood, all venos should have it as soon as possible (even if you dont intend to solo FBs)
At 79 the 3 skills have their utility
- Feral concentration = makes you invincible for 10 seconds ( but you cant move nor cast- 3 sec cast) when luring some bosses for the barb.. you wont take a hit and the barb has enough time to take the aggro back
- Myriad rainbow = cost lot of mana and chi, but will help you quicken the death of any boss (the rainbow is a random 0 to 4 curses = 4.5k bleed DOT, 4.5k poison DOT, 100 % break Phy armor, 100 % magic armor break last 9 sec)
- myriad rainbow fox, is the same as above, but with a close range aoe effect, usefull if you want to be part of a zhen party and on some other rare occasions.
If you can afford them ( by buying the apoc pages or farming them) go for the first 2.
-Reivi.
9. Make sure the tank always has bramble.
10. Make sure the cleric never has bramble.
11. Don't cast bramble on everyone.
I'd add carrying a couple of res scrolls around. If you die and the one cleric in the squad is furiously healing the tank/rest of squad, no one involved really wants the cleric to stop healing and res you.
-Aeode.
~~~General hints, helpage and tips~~~~
Let's see, there's some general tips on good dungeon play:
The cleric, especially, is slow. Wait for the cleric. Or hey, throw them a holy path occasionally!
If someone asks you to do something you've not done before - make sure that you understand what they want. Don't pull the wrong monster!
Edit: If you're not sure that you CAN do it, tell the team. They may have a Plan-B available. But do try new things
If you need to navigate carefully (hugging the wall, clapping hands, jumping over the edge of ledges especially) then put your pet away. If you jump off a ledge and your pet tries to get to you by running all the way around, then bad things will happen.
Always ALWAYS check your team is ok for you to pull. Nothing worse than pulling the big bad guy moments before the barb says "AFK: Gotta potty"
And it helps, especially on fast monsters, if you say WHAT you are pulling. -Vitenka.
End.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by Reikara - Heavens Tear on
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Comments
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Done.Don't cast bramble on everyone.
Propably done.Don't cast a lower level bramble over a higher level bramble.
Done.Don't randomly aoe the **** outta things
Done.Run.
Done.Debuff.
End.
I would add: Boss situation: If the only tank (bm/barb) dies and you have only 1 cleric in your squad, unsummon your pet unless you can use it as a tank. You propably pull aggro with your pet > pet dies and you draw aggro> cleric start healing you > you die even when cleric heals you > cleric draws aggro > cleric dies = party wipeb:chuckle0 -
I'd add carrying a couple of res scrolls around. If you die and the one cleric in the squad is furiously healing the tank/rest of squad, no one involved really wants the cleric to stop healing and res you.0
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1. Don't cast bramble on everyone.
I got some criticism here for giving this same advice, but agree with it.4. You can't pull mobs with magic. Pull. With. Your. Pet.
Tame Pet lures much faster and often safer IF you know what you can lure and can't with it. In Eden, I only use a pet for the cactopods (Armored Bear + Threaten) and it goes much faster.5. Run. Being a veno dosen't make you invincible. If a mobs after you, your pet just died, dont be a dickbrain and stand there reviving it.
In the case of it being a pet that can tank, I've managed to revive it and take over tanking. I'd say it's a judgment call based on circumstances.6. If the tank has a luring skill on his genie, let him pull. He's got more HP and defense than you, and it's much safer. Kick back and relax.
It's also more costly, and negligibly safer. If tank is luring, it's most likely because veno is dawdling or has yet to learn all aspects of luring. There are rare circumstances that make a tanker more ideal to lure.Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0 -
Well, in the TTs I ran with my barb friend, i'd tank and he'd lure. Mostly nice to relax from our perm jobs.
Our barbs like to lure since they're so uber faster now, I mean at 90+ you get those OHT quests for the tear of heaven, to make an eq then decomp it for chi. So his genie is always full, chi supply plentiful.
Most of the stuff here is pointed towards lower level stuff, it was a semi-rant since i'm making a newb cleric and i'm sick of venos always buffing me with bramble.. Dx
I just don't imagine a level 30 something veno being able to survive in a situation where her pet has just died and the mob is now after her.
But yeah, i'll add on input lol.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
If a veno has drawn aggro, run in circles AROUND the tank (haven't figured out how to do this in the air/water when I'm very slow in moving + the 3D aspect of it). Don't run off away from the tank like a headless chicken, forcing the tank to chase you to get the mobs off you, espeically if you're heading for the cleric. It can also be done with your pet as the tank. It'll make it that much easier for the tank to pull the mob off you and back onto him. It's a nifty little tactic that has saved my **** a few times when I pull aggro off my pet.
As for number 8, kinda of hard to max all the required spells for a veno without running into MAJOR spirit problems. I'm at 41 and for all the fox form skills, they are all at level 1 because I simply do not have enough spirit to max all those skills alongside the spell casting spells and other spells that are more useful for soloing. Although crappy, level 1 does work if you're spirit poor, though at a much lower efficiency level. If you have advice on how to get more spirit for cheap, I'll be happy to learn about it. I have like 0 spirit right now and still don't have Purge/Amp Damage maxed for my level...Induction ID (Doomsbog): 3080068X031808024008351Z3f4d220 -
Very nice guide. Perhaps add a section on how to lure properly? A lot of people don't know how. It'd be good for non-venos as well to learn how proper luring works so they don't get killed.Reikara - Heavens Tear wrote: »6. If the tank has a luring skill on his genie, let him pull. He's got more HP and defense than you, and it's much safer. Kick back and relax.
Meh, genie lure IMO doesn't seem as reliable to me as veno lure. Once we had a tank try to lure Farren Sereneti's minions with the genie. All the mobs came at us and carnage happened.[offering art commissions, pm for more]0 -
Some good points - some bad. Some missed. Lets review.
although most people will gripe about this, if anyone pulls agro from a mob - it means the tank isnt doing his job. Not our fault for casting a skill that helps kill mobs faster. Bramble alone is very low agro compared to a pet or Barb. Easiest solution if you pull agro is to stop attacking and run towards the tank. But again.. if you pull agro - it means the tank isnt doing their job b:angry. Find another one next time b:laughReikara - Heavens Tear wrote: »1. Don't cast bramble on everyone.
agreed - good point2. Don't cast a lower level bramble over a higher level bramble. Just don't >_>
Bramble can be maxed at level 59, if they're 60, and you're 30, dont cast bramble.
fair enough.. I always wait till the tank has agro'd all the mobs (generally three at a time) before casting noxious. or else put my pet on the one he isn't on. Works fine for me. Your mileage may vary.3. Don't randomly aoe the **** outta things thinking the tank will come save you. He'll more likley let you die out of your own stupidity. Cleric too.
true4. You can't pull mobs with magic. Pull. With. Your. Pet.
duh.. and you may as well keep a second pet on hand. but generally whenever my pet does die.. someone else has agro already. if not.. it sounds like someone else is still not doing their job. My pets rarely die in instances unless I'm pulling mobs 20 levels higher than it in a group of more than two (or some exploding mobs kill it when they die).5. Run. Being a veno dosen't make you invincible. If a mobs after you, your pet just died, dont be a dickbrain and stand there reviving it.
Here I disagree. Let the barb save his genie stamina. Send your pet in but dont stand there to recall it - let the tank intercept it first while you run back out of range. This was how we did fb 79 last night. If you die from pulling, one of two things must be wrong.6. If the tank has a luring skill on his genie, let him pull. He's got more HP and defense than you, and it's much safer. Kick back and relax.
A: you tried recalling your pet and got ganked by a ranged attack from the mob
B: the barb didnt intercept the incoming mob. (did you tell everyone you were pulling? or did you just go ahead and do it?)
communication and coordination is key first and foremost.
and this is why I hate playing second string veno. true it should be done - but I just hate playing pet clericb:laugh7. If you're herc tanking a boss, and another veno said she needs you to heal it. For frick's sake heal it. Hercs aren't all godly.
Purge in PvE?? I've not once seen a need for it. EVER. Amp Damage and Soul degeneration are better uses of your fox form than purge is when it comes to PvE instances.8. Debuff. Kills faster, party will love you for it, you'll get invited to more FBs, job satisfaction. If you dont have fox form, purge or amplify damage, get them and max them. I dont care what your build is, max them.
true. but you have forgotten to mention that you should shoot him some sparks during those epic long boss fights so that he'll be able to hold agro better (and to the cleric who is going to be doing BB).9. Make sure the tank always has bramble.
I'll ignore this since casting bramble on everyone has its advantages in certain boss fights. With a physical AOE boss - bramble will reflect even the ranged aoe back at him - once again helping to kill the boss faster.b:bye10. Make sure the cleric never has bramble.
11. Don't cast bramble on everyone.I'm a man0 -
Veno lure:
Spawn pet (NO REFLECT ON)
Send pet to atttack the target u want to pull (normal attack preferred)
Once the pet has hit the target once hit ''STOW'' in pet window.
This will unsummon the pet. right after you hit STOW, SUMMON it AGAIN and attack it when its getting near. also barb can take aggro once u pulled it.
Oh well, not that hardb:victory0 -
I thought soul degeneration was the most useless skill a fox could ever have when it came to PvP and PvE. A level 90 barb knows no such thing as saving genie stamina, they get a daily quest in OHT for chi stones.
I cant remember the names, but there was one or two bosses which actually require a purge. Genie lures need to be a specific skill like extreme poison, if it's some other random skill with no range you're going to pull all the mobs o.O
And spirit really shouldn't be any kind of object for venos. Max up amp and fox form as you level, you're obviously not going to be able max you skills by level 30.
When I wrote this I mainy had lower level FBs in mind though. Tanks can still do an awesome job and have things go wrong, bramble is just that little extra help to make them when cast on a squishy. Lower level aoe phys bosses shouldn't be hard to kill within a decent period of time.
Just about every barb i've been with though has always preffered luring, he runs faster, he can still pull efficiently and it keeps thing running smoothly. I'll always end up pulling a boss out of a bunch of mobs and other things where obviously a genie has limits.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Luring would deserve it's own thread. There are so many ways to lure and each has it's own reason for being used.A: you tried recalling your pet and got ganked by a ranged attack from the mob
Here's a few things to buffer this situation: Cast Bramble Hood just before un-summoning pet, Use tanker pet with Threaten to lure, Use ranged pet to gain some distance after sending.Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0 -
Reikara - Heavens Tear wrote: »I thought soul degeneration was the most useless skill a fox could ever have when it came to PvP and PvE.
in PvP it most certainly is useless since you've got pots, charms, and clerics up your butt (or the catapult puller in TW will at any rate). Against bosses though, soul degeneration will stop him from regaining health after your amp wears off and before it cools down. I guess if you're gonna stay fox form the whole fight and you're up against a boss that absolutely needs purge and you have purge maxed (for a 30 second cool down), you could do purge -> amp damage -> some whallops -> soul degeneration -> some whallops -> repeat every 30 seconds (or whenever a positive state spell appears on the boss). But like I've said - as of yet I've not seen any positive state spells on any bosses. Perhaps if they were there, they didnt stay but a few seconds anyhow.I'm a man0 -
I think they're hiding in the higher level TTs, I know for sure that they're are however.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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The only boss that i know of that requires purge is cosmo in TT2-2 and 2-3 he buffs himself with increased attack speed, increased phys dmg and increased defence if you dont debuff him he takes twice aslong to kill and burns more of your barbs charm0
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Reikara - Heavens Tear wrote: »I thought soul degeneration was the most useless skill a fox could ever have when it came to PvP and PvE. A level 90 barb knows no such thing as saving genie stamina, they get a daily quest in OHT for chi stones.
I cant remember the names, but there was one or two bosses which actually require a purge. Genie lures need to be a specific skill like extreme poison, if it's some other random skill with no range you're going to pull all the mobs o.O
And spirit really shouldn't be any kind of object for venos. Max up amp and fox form as you level, you're obviously not going to be able max you skills by level 30.
When I wrote this I mainy had lower level FBs in mind though. Tanks can still do an awesome job and have things go wrong, bramble is just that little extra help to make them when cast on a squishy. Lower level aoe phys bosses shouldn't be hard to kill within a decent period of time.
Just about every barb i've been with though has always preffered luring, he runs faster, he can still pull efficiently and it keeps thing running smoothly. I'll always end up pulling a boss out of a bunch of mobs and other things where obviously a genie has limits.
Lots of bosses have self buffs that needs purging. There are two in RB gamma alone. Lots of others throughout TTs and FBs.
Extreme poison no longer lure, they changed it after the last patch.0 -
Verry good tips ^^
ohh and for the debuffing part..like amplify dmg: Just dont, and I really mean dont use it when the boss uses a mass aoe attack. Because of the close distance you probably die or just get hit. When you do this a few times, youre dead cuz the cleric is just dont gonna heal you (youre just being stupid).
Little thing about chi:
Dont use to much of your chi exept for ironwood. A barb needs chi to hold agro on the boss, espesially when there is an archer around that is much higher then the barb (they like to crit and take over agro >.<) Or when you are planning on doing an fast fb run (meaning making groups) make sure youre squad has 2 veno's to give the archers chi. Their lvl 59 aoe attack can go like almost for ever when they have an mp charm, just make sure they have 2 sparks when they want to cast that skill. Because Lending Hand has a 1 min cooldown you should have 2 veno's in your squad. A cleric also needs chi for BB. Always give the barb first his chi. When barb loses agro and cant get it back cuz of lack of chi, you probably would all die. If the barb has full chi and the cleric wants to cast BB then give the cleric chi. All other classes come last when they need chi. And just dont show of your *o look at me* lvl 59 skill. It comsumes 2 sparks, a barb needs it more then you do.0 -
In certain situations you can lure with magic,few mobs running around in a patrol,its possible(if timed right)to draw one away with a spell,just be sure you know the agro range of the rest.Quit 100%...and surprised my forum account wasn't banned...yet0
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brambles cast on everyone no matter who, if the barb can't pull aggro from a single brambled person, he doesn't have any skills maxed and shouldn't be tanking, sorry but i like the dmg reflected done by brambles on my clerics
edit: mean't to say damage reflected not reduced sorry about the confusion0 -
Tequila_wolf - Heavens Tear wrote: »brambles cast on everyone no matter who, if the barb can't pull aggro from a single brambled person, he doesn't have any skills maxed and shouldn't be tanking, sorry but i like the dmg reduction done by brambles on my clerics
Bramble guard doesn't actually reduce damage taken. You're still taking full damage independent of dmg reflected. Bramble hood reduce dmg by a huge amount, but can only be cast on self.0 -
Then you should learn your skills because Bramble doesn't reduce damage intake on people, it only reflects. Bramblehood, which is our two spark self only skill is the one that reduces damage.0
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Wow, calm down. It does say in the tool-tip: "Cast a bramble shield of protection on a friendly target". I know it's wrong, but that's what it reads.Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0
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maybe you should add to luring:
don't be too far away from your pet or it will plop right next to you, and all mobs that aggroed on sight will run towards you.
...oh yes, wandering bosses in wraithgate >.<but you have forgotten to mention that you should shoot him some sparks during those epic long boss fights so that he'll be able to hold agro better (and to the cleric who is going to be doing BB)
just pointing that out again
nice guide so far!~~Inactive~~
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks to Torhn for coloring!0 -
Things I've done/seen done/wished had been done:
If you're luring with a pet that has reflect (almost always herc), turn it off (this means resummon) before luring.
Make sure the squad knows you're luring, don't just send your pet off then go stand by the tank and hope he'll save you. He could be eating/talking/chatting/restarting/checking his email/what have you.
If a cleric inadvertently draws aggro, immediately send your pet after the mob. Even if your pet dies, it'll draw aggro away from your cleric, give him time to heal himself, and give your tank more time to catch said mob.
When luring ranged mobs, let the tank position well out of the mob's range. Lure the mob, and then run back a ways behind the tank. This will cause the mob to stop right in front of the tank instead of 10m in front of him, and will give the mob room to kite without causing the tank to draw aggro from the whole crowd.
Make use of cleric heals (if there is a secondary cleric)/BB when soul transfusing for more mana in boss fights. If your grace-transfuse-metabolic combo is on cooldown, just wait until about 1/2 HP (especially important if you're wearing an HP charm), WARN YOUR CLERIC, then transfuse and let them pop you an ironheart. This is only if your group has a second cleric acting as DD on that boss. Do NOT ask the main cleric to heal you.
When using your pet as a DD on bosses, turn off its aggro skills. Make use of debuff skills like Threaten, Howl, and Pierce as often as they are available.
When fighting non-aoe bosses, use Befuddling Mist (accuracy debuff). It's very helpful for your tank. I generally put it on right after I amp.
NEVER waste a spark for more damage. Your spells aren't that strong anyway; that's why you bring archers and wizards to DD (ever see anyone WC for a veno DD?). Your spark is for your tank and your BBing cleric.
When healing a pet tank with another veno, try and time your heals so that you guys are alternating, i.e. start your channel when she is about 3/4 of the way done with her spell. I find this protects from spike damage better than if you both are healing at the same time.
I can't think of any more b:cute[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
fixed, hehe b:victoryReikara - Heavens Tear wrote: »Roll a Mage, don't be a ***.
end0 -
Alphae - Lost City wrote: »When healing a pet tank with another veno, try and time your heals so that you guys are alternating, i.e. start your channel when she is about 3/4 of the way done with her spell. I find this protects from spike damage better than if you both are healing at the same time.
this is pertinent. also.. if you know the mob likes to kite and has ranged attack (such as khewy, rattus lord) you should both (or all of you) stand relatively close to the boss on alternate sides of him. in the event he tries to kite - one of you will still be in heal range depending upon the direction he kites. then the one who is no longer in range needs to high tail it back closer to the boss and heal some more - allowing time for the other one to high tail it back into new position. Took me three times to get that right tonight - but it worked with my magmite tanking and a lvl 40 veno doing assist spam heals. Two clerics and an archer as DD'sI'm a man0 -
Flauschkatze - Heavens Tear wrote: »... don't be too far away from your pet or it will plop right next to you, and all mobs that aggroed on sight will run towards you. ...
I've never seen them do that.0 -
I've never seen them do that.
happens a heck of a lot in TT even with a kowlin if the puller tries to send their pet after an even faster roaming mob that is already outbound. Even a slow pet like the magmite can pull in TT if you command it to attack when the mob is INbound. This has the added advantage of surviving better than the kowlin would - from my experience.I'm a man0 -
I meant that I've never seen the mobs that weren't attacked/damaged come back at me, ususally if the pet pops back to me nothing more happens. I don't know why they're coming after you.0
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DoneReikara - Heavens Tear wrote: »1. Don't cast bramble on everyone. Clerics especially will hate you for it.
Is annoying i usually ask for the bramble level to others venos in party mine is maxed since time agoReikara - Heavens Tear wrote: »2. Don't cast a lower level bramble over a higher level bramble. Just don't >_>
Thats why I till saved my Shikou Valorian if my Herc dies (not usually) I can run, summon the Shikou (suicide mode xD), revive my Herc when the other pet dies run and summon the Herc and health it (dont forget auto buffs), channeling pills or genie channeling skill wil help u to do it faster also casting the spark eruption (enought the 1spark skill) when u cast health pet it will restore almost all HP on your petReikara - Heavens Tear wrote: »5. Run. Being a veno dosen't make you invincible. If a mobs after you, your pet just died, dont be a dickbrain and stand there reviving it.
Something that bother me is when the other veno decide cast spells and my pet dies b:angry dont stop healthing plzReikara - Heavens Tear wrote: »7. If you're herc tanking a boss, and another veno said she needs you to heal it. For frick's sake heal it. Hercs aren't all godly.
Here I want to add at some fb's like 69 with the two last bosses if the tank dies all sqd must run into the water to try to survive b:chuckle u can res the tank laterReikara - Heavens Tear wrote: »Boss situation: If the only tank (bm/barb) dies and you have only 1 cleric in your squad, unsummon your pet unless you can use it as a tank. You propably pull aggro with your pet > pet dies and you draw aggro> cleric start healing you > you die even when cleric heals you > cleric draws aggro > cleric dies = party wipe-Kitsuneh.
Try to max your best skills ASAP dont waste your spirit at other's that u dont use it usually or a lot.Reikara - Heavens Tear wrote: »8. Debuff. Kills faster, party will love you for it, you'll get invited to more FBs, job satisfaction. If you dont have fox form, purge or amplify damage, get them and max them. I dont care what your build is, max them.
I think the most importants are:
Metabolic Boost - restore HP, Nature's Grace - restore MP
Fox Form:
Purge, Amp. Dmg, Soul Degeneration, Leech
Human Form
Venomous Scarab, Ironwood Scarab, Blazing Scarab, Bramble, (aoe for zhen)
I do it, with your skills for MP, HP u can recover it, also HP/MP helps cuz u can use it and change stats with Soul Transfusion another famous is genie skill Tree of protection.Reikara - Heavens Tear wrote: »I'd add carrying a couple of res scrolls around. If you die and the one cleric in the squad is furiously healing the tank/rest of squad, no one involved really wants the cleric to stop healing and res you.
-Aeode.
Same when i tried to lure a mobs usually on moving and is far away from me my pet return to me and nothing happens.I meant that I've never seen the mobs that weren't attacked/damaged come back at me, ususally if the pet pops back to me nothing more happens. I don't know why they're coming after you.
If the tank lose the aggro is not a good tank -_- i hate it when u was on party and the barb lose aggro and my herc keep it u must be carefully cuz your pet can die and u after if the tank cant keep the aggro.
I usually do zhen with my bf and he is BM when mobs comes to attack me YES run around him he hit they and save my ****
b:victory[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Arshies - Sanctuary0 -
Alphae - Lost City wrote: »When fighting non-aoe bosses, use Befuddling Mist (accuracy debuff). It's very helpful for your tank. I generally put it on right after I amp.
If healing your pet, use this hotkey.
Walk behind
Heal
Befuddle
Heal
Fox Wallop
You'll gain 25 chi prior to the wallop, 5 per cycle after it. It can be sustained forever so long as you have mana. It cuts dps a lot, you can interrupt it and hit amp at times too since you're already fox and next to the mob. Don't use it on fights with AE's though. Depending on level, it's quite good on Kong/Kimsa/FB79/etc. It will keep befuddle up full time, fox will be kept up around half the time. The limitation on is it's only the best choice if you need something more than a straight up heal/nuke/heal/nuke rotation but want to do something more than hold your heal key.NEVER waste a spark for more damage. Your spells aren't that strong anyway; that's why you bring archers and wizards to DD (ever see anyone WC for a veno DD?). Your spark is for your tank and your BBing cleric.
Lending Hand takes 60 seconds to recycle, venomous generates 10 chi per cast, if you have a Barb they have a better debuff than Ironwood, yours will overwrite and end up reducing overall damage so you avoid the chi drain. Blazing is 20 chi, Lucky is 15 chi. On bosses Blazing is worth it if you've leveled it, that's 20 chi every 16.5 seconds, lucky is another 15 every 13.5 seconds, venomous is 10 every 2.5 seconds. This is all without any channeling. You're generating 72.72/min from blazing, 66.67/min from lucky, and 165.76 from venomous with those skills. That's 380.39 chi per minute, lending hand uses up 100 of that leaving you with 280.39 spare. Not using the sparks is a waste once they're built up since you can't transfer them all. Even with Ironwood you'll still end up with a surplus of chi, depending on how often you hit soul transfusion.Here I want to add at some fb's like 69 with the two last bosses if the tank dies all sqd must run into the water to try to survive u can res the tank later
I'm a fan of holy path myself. I find it's faster, with a higher chance of survival.0 -
Sorry guys, I had never really meant this to be a fully fledge guide when I wrote this, it was a rant at lower level venos (talking like 40-) and I might have been slightly drunk ~_~
Anyway, you're adding all this stuff so yeah, i'll update it with your input xD
Gotta go do some things atm, will update it after.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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