5gold = 1mil; period.

Kannone - Heavens Tear · August 2009

I was surprised when I read this post from GM xarfox: Rising Gold Prices.

I had to LOL as xarfox was attempting to explain that gold prices were rising as a result of a new high demand for Guardian Angels (GAs) for the jolly jones event. I hadn't even thought of that; why hadn't I thought of the jolly jones event's affect on the economy? Well because I had also read this: Patch Notes Version 166- Released July 30, 2009

Specifically this section:
[quote=[GM]Kantorek]Cube of Fate - Chest of Coins
After completing the Cube of Fate, players will receive an additional reward called the Chest of Coins that contains 1,000,000 coins. You will receive 1 Chest of Coins if selecting the Reward Pack, or 3 if selecting the Mysterious Cog. However, because of the sturdiness of these chests, you will need a Perfect Iron Hammer to open them. Perfect Iron Hammers can be found in the Perfect World Boutique.[/quote]

During the last Jolly Jones event, gold prices on HT rose to a shocking 130k per gold (up from 98-105k) and settled back down to 105-115k and were steadily rising upwards of 120-125k just before the last week of July; I don't believe anyone will argue that the increased demand for gold drove the prices up 10-15%, so what happened all of a sudden that caused a 70-90% spike in the price for gold?

2 weeks ago PWI did something absolutely confuzzling: they tied down the fictitious in-game money (coins) to real life micro-money (gold) at a permanently set rate of 200k per gold. At this moment, our in-game gold exchange is not controlled by the natural forces of supply and demand, but rather by a set standard- 1million coins = 5gold; period.

If Jolly Jones was meant to "flush the economy" ([gm]zarfox), then why make GAs exchangeable in this whole thing? (I know to make PWI money, this is fine but keep reading please). This idea really would work if only 100k coins exchange were allowed. But that's not what we have.

It would probably be a good thing for PWI to remove these 1million coin boxes unless we're trying to see if we can keep gold prices under 200k; which... well, doesn't seem like it would work, at least not in any models I can work up.

If you've read this far, perhaps you can A.) maybe present a hypothetical in which the 1mil coin boxes will keep gold prices under 200k (which is a good thing if prices are climbing to 225k+); or B.) present more examples of why tying the two moneys together was a bad thing.

Absoluth - Heavens Tear · August 2009

Xarfox has seriously offended the entire PWI comunity with that post. I really hope he realizes that. 1 thing is to admit caring only about money and not the players, like never fixing the venomancer's bugged pet dmg just to steal players money with herc/phoenix sales, another is to come to the forums and bs everyone with such a horrible excuse. I mean, how hard is it to say "We want your money. From now on gold price will be set at a minimum of 200k"? At least it would show us a little respect and give the players the correct view of how the game is managed and have the option to chose wether they want to accept it or not.

The 1M chest rewards should be removed from the game completely. First of all, its not even a reward. Its insulting calling something you'll get maybe 20k out of a reward. Lets name it what it really is: A way to sell more gold.

Hundreds of players are on the verge of leaving the game with how our hosts are running things. If they had any business notion at all, they would listen to players before implementing stuff like this. I like this game and many of my friends play it, but im giving second thoughts about moving on to something else. I hate watching ppl get robbed and children gambling (as we all know, theres illegal gambling in PWI).

Delahk - Sanctuary · August 2009

Do you want cheese with that whine?

seriously there's tons of those threads already, it's getting annoying...you don't even need gold (yes you don't need it you just want it, and before some smartass points out my level, my forum account isn't my main)

Mizorie - Lost City · August 2009

I never thought of it this way, very solid theory you have here.

INB4LCK

Delahk - Sanctuary wrote: »

Do you want cheese with that whine?

seriously there's tons of those threads already, it's getting annoying...you don't even need gold (yes you don't need it you just want it, and before some smartass points out my level, my forum account isn't my main)

Your in idiot, you should know if yous a "high lvl" that when you start getting high lvl it is essential to start using cash shop items unless you want to lose the game.

Now before you say...oh you dont need any of it. WRONG.

How can you even compare to some one of equal lvl when they have a hp charm on...you cant.
How can you even compare to some one of equal lvl when they have +7 gear on...you cant.
How can you PVP when you cant use cash shop...you cant.
How can you protect your items when you cant use cash shop...you cant.
How can you get a faster mod of transportation if your not a elf....you cant.

you see where im going here?

Mantas - Sanctuary · August 2009

Delahk - Sanctuary wrote: »

Do you want cheese with that whine?

seriously there's tons of those threads already, it's getting annoying...you don't even need gold (yes you don't need it you just want it, and before some smartass points out my level, my forum account isn't my main)

Ok u dont buy gold. But everything are affected with this price jump. Charms, Eso, GA now cost so much if u want buy them from players.
At least they made these boxes stackable.

Konariraiden - Heavens Tear · August 2009

*shrugs* At least it's not like other versions' servers, where the Coin/Gold ratio can get as high as 400,000:1. Be thankful for that.

Sure, it's fairly high for "our" standards...but if one expands their views beyond our basic boundaries, we see just how good we have it.

Also, understand this. You are replaceable. You are not going to cause that "revolutionary uprising" or "mass exodus" that will cause the entirety of the PWI playerbase to up and leave. After all...there are many, MANY worse MMO's out there...and their player base is still doing just fine. What you don't know is that for every one of those "hundred" players leaving...there will be others to take their place. If you're gonna leave, just do it. Move on. Everything eventually comes to an end. And in the end, all you can do is look back and ask yourself if you truly enjoyed it while it was there.

...I already know the answer to that question for me...do you?

Unreal_God - Harshlands · August 2009

its weird how some gms claim that they r going to set the gold price to 200k+ and others seem to give the point across that they are going to lower it i dont get this they are contridicting themselfs... i mean atm the gold prices in harshlands is at least 250k.... and this is just plain stupid we are getting bombarded with sale after sale on stuff in the shop causing the gold prices to go up and with jolly jones..... this needs to be fixed i dont mind the occasional sale but i mean in the last 2-3 weeks theres been about i would say 8 sales on things...

oh and r the 1 mil chest stackable does this mean that if i buy 1 iron hammer it will open all 3 if i have 3?b:angryb:cryb:angry

Absoluth - Heavens Tear · August 2009

You guys fail to understand the point. Its not about the prices of items or gold. Its about how they say PWI has a player based economy and then they force a minimum value on it. Its how they implement a reward system that doesnt give any rewards at all with the sole purpose to sell more gold. Its how they address the game comunity with clear lies saying they want to remove some coins from the market and at the same time injecting alot more. Its the offense to the players intelligence in all of this.

Konariraiden - Heavens Tear · August 2009

Absoluth - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You guys fail to understand the point. Its not about the prices of items or gold. Its about how they say PWI has a player based economy and then they force a minimum value on it. Its how they implement a reward system that doesnt give any rewards at all with the sole purpose to sell more gold. Its how they address the game comunity with clear lies saying they want to remove some coins from the market and at the same time injecting alot more. Its the offense to the players intelligence in all of this.

Welcome to America, buddy.

Population...apparently, not you.

Mantas - Sanctuary · August 2009

Konariraiden - Heavens Tear wrote: »

*shrugs* You are replaceable. You are not going to cause that "revolutionary uprising" or "mass exodus" that will cause the entirety of the PWI playerbase to up and leave.

I agree with this one. But...this game is f2p after all. With these gold prices u can get anything valuable only paying rl money. And with these boxes prices will never fall more than 180k maybe. Yeah its a good thing for company but in a longterm players who paying could became sick of p2play game.
There is already huge agvantage for those who pay.

Aeode - Sanctuary · August 2009

With the way gold prices are now, I was thinking of buying a bunch of gold to then buy items from the boutique and resell to others at 1g:100k. The problem with this is that other players would likely buy it up and resell at a higher price, so there's no point.

Were we all to magically agree to stick to 1g:100k, some bright spark would eventually offer to pay 120k per gold to get theirs immediately, or see a profit to be made somewhere and before long we'd end up exactly where we are now.

After seeing so much debate about these chests recently, I'm not entirely certain who the greedy ones are in all of this.

Mantas - Sanctuary · August 2009

Aeode - Sanctuary wrote: »

After seeing so much debate about these chests recently, I'm not entirely certain who the greedy ones are in all of this.

The problem is that these chests are only to force u buy Perfect Iron Hammer. And Xarfox stated earlier that they want stabilize(?) economy. These chests now force players to keep gold prices high. On the bright side there is no point for gold to go more than 210k i think.
Gold prices should fall after event is over (or a week or two later) but becuz of boxes it wont.

Absoluth - Heavens Tear · August 2009

Konariraiden - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Welcome to America, buddy.

Population...apparently, not you.

Thankd god for it. I've lived in america for 3 years. Glad to be out.

Konariraiden - Heavens Tear · August 2009

Absoluth - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Thankd god for it. I've lived in america for 3 years. Glad to be out.

ಠ_ಠೊ

...Japan FTW?

Vitenka - Dreamweaver · August 2009

Mantas - Sanctuary wrote: »

Gold prices should fall after event is over (or a week or two later) but becuz of boxes it wont.

Given that you have to spend resources (and time) to get the box, and there's a tax on gold etc. etc. the cash boxes only actually force gold to be worth 180-190k At 210 you'd be losing money opening it with the hammer.

And right now? Right now I'd be happy to see gold go back down to that level.

But yes, players had previously sorta expected gold to be 100k 'and a bit' and fluctuate. the new expectation is gonna have to be 200k. Joy.

Mantas - Sanctuary · August 2009

Aeode - Sanctuary wrote: »

With the way gold prices are now, I was thinking of buying a bunch of gold to then buy items from the boutique and resell to others at 1g:100k. The problem with this is that other players would likely buy it up and resell at a higher price, so there's no point.

Were we all to magically agree to stick to 1g:100k, some bright spark would eventually offer to pay 120k per gold to get theirs immediately, or see a profit to be made somewhere and before long we'd end up exactly where we are now.

After seeing so much debate about these chests recently, I'm not entirely certain who the greedy ones are in all of this.

Yup. If u sell charm for 300k-350k every1 who buy it resell for 450k or so. Players are greedy too. That's a nature.

Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Given that you have to spend resources (and time) to get the box, and there's a tax on gold etc. etc. the cash boxes only actually force gold to be worth 180-190k At 210 you'd be losing money opening it with the hammer.

And right now? Right now I'd be happy to see gold go back down to that level.

But yes, players had previously sorta expected gold to be 100k 'and a bit' and fluctuate. the new expectation is gonna have to be 200k. Joy.

Some1 told that in MY servers gold is 400k ea. Imagine, gold hp charm for 1.6mil b:laughb:shocked

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · August 2009

Absoluth - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The 1M chest rewards should be removed from the game completely. First of all, its not even a reward. Its insulting calling something you'll get maybe 20k out of a reward. Lets name it what it really is: A way to sell more gold.

lol i see so many pple tryin to sell it now

Saitada - Sanctuary · August 2009

Mizorie - Lost City wrote: »

I never thought of it this way, very solid theory you have here.

INB4LCK

Your in idiot, you should know if yous a "high lvl" that when you start getting high lvl it is essential to start using cash shop items unless you want to lose the game.

Now before you say...oh you dont need any of it. WRONG.

How can you even compare to some one of equal lvl when they have a hp charm on...you cant.
How can you even compare to some one of equal lvl when they have +7 gear on...you cant.
How can you PVP when you cant use cash shop...you cant.
How can you protect your items when you cant use cash shop...you cant.
How can you get a faster mod of transportation if your not a elf....you cant.

you see where im going here?

How can you neglect to see he is on a PVE server where those things really ain't needed unless you PvP flag? You see where I am going here? Probably not.

~S

Starang - Lost City · August 2009

Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »

How can you neglect to see he is on a PVE server where those things really ain't needed unless you PvP flag? You see where I am going here? Probably not.

~S

I see what you did thar.

Btw, selling chestofcoins for 200-300k isn't that bad.

Mantas - Sanctuary · August 2009

Starang - Lost City wrote: »

Btw, selling chestofcoins for 200-300k isn't that bad.

its like a gambling..u can loose but u can win much too b:victory but if nothing wil lbe changed u probably loose..b:sad

Saitada - Sanctuary · August 2009

Starang - Lost City wrote: »

I see what you did thar.

Btw, selling chestofcoins for 200-300k isn't that bad.

Gasps! You imply what sirrah? I am an innocent..... character. I have been maligned! I *slaps Starang across the cheek with Xarfox's glove* Challenge you to a duel to your death with GM Xarfox (quietly slips away chuckling).

~S

Konariraiden - Heavens Tear · August 2009

Quick, Starang! You must SHOOP some WHOOP to beat Xarfox in a duel! DO IT!!

I'MA FIRIN' MA LAZER...

O o
/____________________________ ______________
|BLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAARGH!!!
\

Ninnuam - Sanctuary · August 2009

I do agree that the chests of coins were a bad move, but I wouldn't be so quick to point fingers at PWE in an attempt to accuse them of greed or whatever.
Whether xarfox's post was either shortsighted, or just a blatant lie, I can't tell.
What I can tell you is that, ultimately, the addition of chests of coins is a bad marketing move for PWI.
The player base can be divided into two categories: those that buy zen, and those who do not. Those who don't, aren't miraculously going to start just because gold:coin ratio has changed. They'll either grind the ingame coin and take things as they are, or simply quit the game altogether if they feel that the ingame coin is pretty much worthless and that it's not worth it to grind twice as much as they used to, in order to afford practically compulsory, day-to-day consumable items such as charms, GAs and esos, since their in game value is directly tied to the gold:coin ratio.

Then you have the zen buyers, who now have to buy less in order to gain more, resulting in PWI, once again, getting less money than they used to.

And contrary to the public belief, having the boxes as cube reward isn't the issue here. Cube has it's costs to finish, and not THAT many people complete it on a daily basis. When they do, a vast majority goes for the xp reward and thus receives only one chest.
Rebirth on the other hand, is probably the favorite past time for the majority of players. It has no costs what so ever, you get xp AND coin for completing it already, with hundreds of people doing it all day long. Finishing a gamma run nets you two chests, finishing a delta gets you three, on top of a nice sum of money + shards, mirages, frags, and book pages you normally would get.

In any case, I wouldn't worry too much. When PWE realizes they're losing money, rest assured you can kiss the chests goodbye or at the very least expect them to become a rare reward, rather than injecting hundreds, if not thousands on boxes into the game on a daily basis.

Kirashan - Dreamweaver · August 2009

Absoluth - Heavens Tear wrote: »

... [they] say they want to remove some coins from the market and at the same time inject ... alot more. ...

Now ain't that a gem of truth? I'm suprprised that I hadn't seen it sooner, actually. This completely negates the logic that the Jolly event will dry up the economy and sink the gold prices back down. Not cool, guys!b:shocked

Sylvae - Sanctuary · August 2009

Xarafox didn't lie, chests of coins were not that plentiful when the prices spiked as much as they did. There was alot of zhen being used and sold in the AH, and just looking at how many other people were merchanting should clue most people in that the vast majority of that gold was bought, used for angels, converted to spring packs, made profit from, and more gold rebought. I did that, and many others did as well.

The flow of coin to gold was alot more vast than most people believe, I myself did over 60 million coins worth of gold in less than 1 week. And I didn't bother as much on this sale as others, so multiply that by everyone else who merchants. Gold prices peaked to 175k+ in the first few days. There was nowhere near enough chests to raise prices to such an extent, with such a gold infusion constantly happening in the AH. Xarafox is correct, and likely has the data staring right at him to back him up. Also, many merchants would outbid existing ones, I myself wouldn't bid above 177k each. Only because as I said, didn't want to spend much time on this one.

Now if someone felt like doing an intelligent post, just as a lark now, they would instead postulate on the effect of cubes against how likely to affect the reduction in gold price after the sale ends. Each time it drops, people will buy X amount to open so many chests. Then they rebuy gold, maybe place some lower orders as well, to make more profit.

But people are lazy in this game, and zhenners aren't always the ones who can earn the chests. People put alot of zhen into the system because gold prices were high, which made it worth to sell. Gold price staying high means we could actually see a consistently high amount of zhen being converted and sold. This would drive prices down, offset by the chests and how many are used.

In the end, there is no real telling what the price will set at. If chests set the limit, then it should settle a bit below 200K, enough to make a profit off of through cat shopping it in trade. But I have no idea how much effect the high gold price has on people wanting to buy zhen to sell. Will come down to length of time gold prices remain high most likely. The longer it stays at a set range, the more people come to assume that is the correct price.

Faildom - Harshlands · August 2009

Perfect iron hammers needed for cube rewards = biggest fail ever.
so many will quit with gold price at 200k
and LOL at GM thinking gold price will go down after jolly event.
maybe 180k tops but dont think gold price will go down to normal LOL!

fail

Vitenka - Dreamweaver · August 2009

Are gold prices really that low on other servers?

Chests cannot push the gold price above 196k (unless people are willing to pay more than a million coin to make a million coin, I guess some will make that mistake, but not many)

The gold price is WAY above that on dreamweaver. Chests aren't to blame.

Though yes, unless the supply of chests dries up, gold is never going to come back down below 190k or so.

Baraya - Dreamweaver · August 2009

Ninnuam - Sanctuary wrote: »

I do agree that the chests of coins were a bad move, but I wouldn't be so quick to point fingers at PWE in an attempt to accuse them of greed or whatever.
Whether xarfox's post was either shortsighted, or just a blatant lie, I can't tell.
What I can tell you is that, ultimately, the addition of chests of coins is a bad marketing move for PWI.
The player base can be divided into two categories: those that buy zen, and those who do not. Those who don't, aren't miraculously going to start just because gold:coin ratio has changed. They'll either grind the ingame coin and take things as they are, or simply quit the game altogether if they feel that the ingame coin is pretty much worthless and that it's not worth it to grind twice as much as they used to, in order to afford practically compulsory, day-to-day consumable items such as charms, GAs and esos, since their in game value is directly tied to the gold:coin ratio.

Then you have the zen buyers, who now have to buy less in order to gain more, resulting in PWI, once again, getting less money than they used to.

And contrary to the public belief, having the boxes as cube reward isn't the issue here. Cube has it's costs to finish, and not THAT many people complete it on a daily basis. When they do, a vast majority goes for the xp reward and thus receives only one chest.
Rebirth on the other hand, is probably the favorite past time for the majority of players. It has no costs what so ever, you get xp AND coin for completing it already, with hundreds of people doing it all day long. Finishing a gamma run nets you two chests, finishing a delta gets you three, on top of a nice sum of money + shards, mirages, frags, and book pages you normally would get.

In any case, I wouldn't worry too much. When PWE realizes they're losing money, rest assured you can kiss the chests goodbye or at the very least expect them to become a rare reward, rather than injecting hundreds, if not thousands on boxes into the game on a daily basis.

For me, this post is one big LOL. I started PW back before the first English speaking version launched (PW-MY). I watched as months went by without Cubinet getting any real updates from PW-CN. It got so ridiculous that Cubinet was desperate for a real solution as gamers complained constantly about un-fixed game problems. No matter how much Cubinet complained about needing updates, PW-CN never gave jack squat. Finally, the executives at Cubinet found a solution. Their contract with PW-CN to host the game stated that the devs had to give updates every month if the game officially launched out of beta phase. So, they launched the game, still filled with problems. Strangely, though, almost every update afterward consisted of cash shop items. There were few fixes and tweaks despite the very bad Engrish and constant annoyances. Before long, PWI launched its own open beta. Gamers rushed to the new version of PW that would be run by a new company that was owned by PW-CN (PWE). Finally, there was no middle-man to deal with. One big question still lingered on everyone's mind, though: what would the cash shop prices be? Once they were finally announced, people were horrified. 1G = $1 ?!!! That can't be right! There must be a mistake! PW-MY's prices were 1/3 of that! After a while, though, people realized that the prices would not go down. It didn't take long for the lies to begin. "Oh, things will get much better. We'll change this or that. We'll even have some new classes in the future. This game has only begun. Blah blah blah." Lies could be heard on all three official, English-speaking versions of PW. That was when I left. I came back only recently out of curiosity and to remember the fun I once had. You can defend this company if you want to, but you would hesitate if you knew the whole story.

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary · August 2009

Absoluth - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Xarfox has seriously offended the entire PWI comunity with that post. I really hope he realizes that.

Well, except for those of us who know he's absolutely right. Take a look around the forums at the number of players admitting that they too made 50-100million on Jolly Jones. We know what's driving the Gold market, because we're the ones buying those tons and tons and tons of Gold.

Meanwhile, where are the people posting about how they've been buying 100+ Gold every single day to open their 20+ cash boxes every single day, all for a very slim profit? They're absent. Why? Because they don't exist.

Absoluth - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Hundreds of players are on the verge of leaving the game with how our hosts are running things. If they had any business notion at all, they would listen to players before implementing stuff like this. I like this game and many of my friends play it, but im giving second thoughts about moving on to something else. I hate watching ppl get robbed and children gambling (as we all know, theres illegal gambling in PWI).

I wouldn't be making a dime if people weren't buying the items I'm selling. The fact that people are investing so heavily into Oracles tells me they fully intend to be around in a month or so when the lineups die down.

Baraya - Dreamweaver · August 2009

Sadly, this game's economy is driven by the idiots that keep spending real money on it. I was conviced when I left PW that PWI would die out because no one in their right mind would pay those prices. Once I returned, I saw the exact opposite. The economy only continues because of the fresh group of new players who cycle through and buy gold with real money, never having seen the game before, ignorant of PW's greed. Yes, the company has messed with the economy very badly, but it would all be impossible if people actually had the brains to not spend real money on this game.

E_diamond - Dreamweaver · August 2009

I just wanted to say, to all those people that keep saying

Also, understand this. You are replaceable. You are not going to cause that "revolutionary uprising" or "mass exodus" that will cause the entirety of the PWI player base to up and leave. After all...there are many, MANY worse MMO's out there...and their player base is still doing just fine. What you don't know is that for every one of those "hundred" players leaving...there will be others to take their place. If you're gonna leave, just do it. Move on. Everything eventually comes to an end. And in the end, all you can do is look back and ask yourself if you truly enjoyed it while it was there.

Your an idiot I have played well over 20 mmo game's and have watched major exodus's from a game because GM's and game owners decided to do what they thought was right and not listen to the player community.

good case in point Star Wars great game great player base till the decided they wanted to overhaul the entire game structure. Result they lost over 2/3 of there player base and have only just started to recover since they did this five years ago.

Look at [removed] another great free to play game that lost ALOT of player base
for one main reason its suppose to be free to play but after lvl 15 or so if you don't put 15$ or so in every 2 weeks you fail.

[removed] ect ect ect

Stop being slow games that are free to play start great they depend on cash shop items to make revenue to stay alive but they care about there player base to bring people in but in the end greed controls the world and next thing you know they come up with things to get prices to go up and eventually the player base starts to exodus. Most of the time to the next up and coming mmo.

GM's Take note if people that play for free had on bare minimum 15$ a month to shovel into a game to stay on top they would play a game that's pay to play where they don't have to deal with all the drama that comes with cash shops

And it's true you did slap us in the face with your post about how you care about gold prices rising in server we all know this isn't true. I personally don't care for people who QQ about us posting in these threads go keep living on daddy or mommy debit card.

I have three kids I play mmo's as a way to relax so that I am around my kids when they need me and yes if I did not spoil my kids rotten I would still be playing [removed]. But I choose to put most of my cash into my children and play free to play mmo's where I can chose when to buy things!

But once again a game shows me that in the end they will **** the consumer for what they are worth then discard us.

The most terrible thing is this free mmo actually kicks butt over all: good graphics and good playability. But in the end if things keep going like this people will leave.

Listen to your player base and save yourselves before you lose more of your revenue.

5gold = 1mil; period.

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