We are overpowered. Prove Me Wrong

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Comments

  • Konariraiden - Heavens Tear
    Konariraiden - Heavens Tear Posts: 6,505 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    Veno's claiming to be OP'd...

    ...makes me PO'd.

    b:angry
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Yeah, it's me. Don't read to much into it, though; I'm only here for myself now, killin' time and chillin' when need-be. So sue me. Tch...
  • Vitenka - Dreamweaver
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver Posts: 4,125 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    I tried a cleric, and he got stuck at level 13 unable to kill level 10 mobs without his supply-stash charm ticking.

    I tried a barb, and he got stuck at 18 because although he can kill without a tick he has to sit and wait between kills and has no way of getting one mob at a time (without spending even more on stones)

    My veno? Cakewalk. Total cakewalk. No need to buy weapons, no need to buy armour, no need to buy potions. No need to THINK, just hit the 'Oh, I'm level 38 and feel like killing a level 60 foxwing' macro.

    I admit to not having tried archer, wizard or blademaster yet. I hear they are truly painful to level up.

    Thankfully I've found ways to make the game more challenging than that. But if I want to, I *can* just sit back and veg out.

    Total total cheese.

    Edit: Thinking about it, I may well get less overpowered at higher levels. My spell damage pretty much caps-out around the early 50s and pets are much more linear in damage than, say, wizard spells.
  • geisterkatze
    geisterkatze Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    Well, let's see. We are playing a MMO(RP)G, right? It stands for Massively Multiplayer Online (Roleplaying) Game, right?
    Why do I start my post with it, you might ask. Well, Venomancers have their pet as a tank, which makes them quite independent from other players. But I think that this is both an advantage and a disadvantage. It is a disadvantage because you don't "need" other players to advance in the game but it makes you play the game like it was a solo game and not a MMO(RP)G if you know what I mean.
    Overpowered? I have an arcane venomancer at level 41 with my first Sharptooth Wolfling as my main pet. I can take on one or two mobs my level or slightly above it with this pet. But should my pet die or should an aggressive mob respawn next to me, I'm in trouble, as arcane armour won't protect you much. I have quite some HPs, so I usually can escape by running away, but then I have quite somethign to heal. So I have to position myself carefully and use my pet wisely. I wouldn't call that piece of cake but I get pretty well along.
    I can't speak for other venomancer builds but I think that the arcane version is ok. If something has to be nerfed it would be certain pets but I won't tell you any names.b:chuckle
  • Zoe - Heavens Tear
    Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    I kill phoenixes all the time and I don't even need mine to do it. In my recent fights the players were smart enough to kill my bird a few times though it didn't stop me from killing them anyway.

    Every class is overpowered if you actually know how to play them well. Too bad almost no one does.
    Main characters
    Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
    Sage Barbarian Malego - 91
  • geisterkatze
    geisterkatze Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I kill phoenixes all the time and I don't even need mine to do it. In my recent fights the players were smart enough to kill my bird a few times though it didn't stop me from killing them anyway.

    Mind to share your miraculous build then?
    Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Every class is overpowered if you actually know how to play them well.

    I would rather say "playable" as "overpowered" would mean better than another class but otherwise I second that.
    Too bad almost no one does.
    Well, I doubt that there are several different builds which are the most effective, so I think this game would be quite boring if everyone would follow the "one" efficient build.
    Plus there are many approaches to this game and not every approach is aimed at efficiency, you know.
  • Zoe - Heavens Tear
    Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    I'm sure not aimed at that. I'm just saying most players don't know how to pvp well with the class, build is not an issue.

    It's not my build either, I just know how to handle my class well.
    Main characters
    Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
    Sage Barbarian Malego - 91
  • Faildom - Harshlands
    Faildom - Harshlands Posts: 297 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    LOL @ OP.

    You obviously seem to be a VERY low level because you know NOTHING.
    a barb and cleric can do way more succesful in 2-3 then a veno.
    Also venos gets less ''OP'' at 90 since bleed actually gets tanked easily there, which means you need some skills to kill a target, instead of clicking bleed and then GTFO like most of you noob venos do.

    Zoe, maybe you didnt notice but you want to kill the veno not the nix. they will just heal their pet.
    just pop a blood cloth, jump on the veno, use pet stun, time and use lucky scarab on time, ironwood, venomous, dead.

    Only noob venos attack other venos' nixes.

    And about builds, HA fails.
    gets 1 shot by lucky scarab/ironwood alot :)
  • woyaa
    woyaa Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    Faildom - Harshlands wrote: »
    And about builds, HA fails.
    gets 1 shot by lucky scarab/ironwood alot :)
    A good HA wears Magic Boots and Magic Wrists.
    I have a full set of magic armor in case I wanna 1v1 PvP.

    WE ARE OP. WE CAN BEAT ALL CLASSES. WE NEVER DIE.

    Now will you please stop making these stupid threads?
    I managed to hit level 104 on a X5 rates server!
    b:cute
    How you level 101's on X1 can stand it, I don't know b:shocked
    Woyaa|Level 104|Venomancer|Heaven|Heavy Fox
    SpringBud|Level 98|Wizard|Heaven|LA Mage <--Goes to DP
    Lowbie Alts:
    FrostSong|Level 90|Cleric|Heaven|Full Vit Cleric
    IcantPWN|Level 77|BladeMaster|Axe/Fists HA/LA
    X0neX|Level 89|Archer|Hell|Exotic EA (1 Mag each level)
    LaZy|Level 91|Cleric|Heaven|Full Int, retired
    T4nker|Level 8x|Barbarian|Full Con, playing on this one
  • turtlewax
    turtlewax Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    envymeplz wrote: »
    ... So prove to me we are not op. ...

    This: player ranking.
  • Zoe - Heavens Tear
    Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    taking out the bird disables the veno for longer than just killing them. Most venos run away when you kill the bird, same thing as killing them since they are out of the fight.

    If you kill the pet, then kill the veno, the veno has to stay out of the fight until they res and heal the pet, keeping them away even longer. Keeping someone out of the fight as long as you can really helps in a TW.

    Also, a veno can't heal their pet fast enough to stop me from killing it, they've tried.
    Main characters
    Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
    Sage Barbarian Malego - 91
  • Teh_fishey - Dreamweaver
    Teh_fishey - Dreamweaver Posts: 552 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    We're not overpowered. The other classes are underpowered. Which is why venos are awesome. Suck on that lvl 8x BM who PK'd me about a day or two ago.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Note: No thats not me... I stole that from the interwebs b:chuckle
    BTW.... YOU ROCK FORSAKENX <3

    I like to think of myself as a dog, I can be cute and cuddly but sniff people's butts and get away with it ><>

    Warlock recruiting lvl 70+ on the Dreamweaver Server.
    PM an officer for an invite.

    b:heartb:flowerb:faint
  • IceJazmin - Heavens Tear
    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,206 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    Teh_fishey - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    We're not overpowered. The other classes are underpowered. Which is why venos are awesome. Suck on that lvl 8x BM who PK'd me about a day or two ago.

    Lets look at level ranks
    On the top 10 for levels, only 1 venos in Lost city.
    On the top 10 for levels, only 1 venos in HT.
    On the top 10 for levels, only 3 venos in Sanc.
    On the top 10 for levels, only 4 venos in Dreamweaver.
    On the top 10 for levels, only 4 venos in HL.

    Top 5:
    1 in Lost City - (veno top, second Cleric)
    Zero in HT - (Cleric top, second Wiz)
    Zero in Sanctuary - (Cleric top, second BM)
    1 veno in Dreamweaver - (archer top, second Cleric)
    2 venos in HL - (BM top, second Wizard)

    Since Dream and HL started AFTER the all veno craze, I would had expected to see venos taking all the top 10 spots. Even if you look at top 50 on the new servers, you looking at 16 venos in HL and 12 in Dreamweaver.

    Top 50 for level
    7 venos on top 50 for LC
    10 venos on top 50 for HT
    10 venos on top 50 for Sanct
    12 venos on top 50 for Dreamweaver
    16 venos on top 50 for HL

    Now looking at pvp ranks
    3 venos top 10 in LC (Veno top, second Archer)
    5 venos top 10 in HT (Archer top, second veno)
    2 venos top 10 in Sanctuary (Wizard top, second archer)

    Now for the big shocker. We have all heard how venos rock in pvp, and how in the new servers, everyone rolled a veno, right?, because so are soo good at pvp.

    2 venos in top 10 in Dream (BM top, second Archer)
    1 veno in top 10 in HL (Cleric top, second Wizard)

    And here is the pvp top 50 numbers.
    8 venos on top 50 of LC
    14 venos on top 50 of HT
    10 venos on top 50 of Sanct
    9 venos on top 50 of dream
    12 venos top 50 of HS
    Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.
  • Solandri - Heavens Tear
    Solandri - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Lets look at level ranks
    Top 50 for level
    7 venos on top 50 for LC
    10 venos on top 50 for HT
    10 venos on top 50 for Sanct
    12 venos on top 50 for Dreamweaver
    16 venos on top 50 for HL
    This tells you that a low to mid-high levels, venos level quickest. But at higher levels, they're passed up by the other classes. Basically what most of us here have been saying all along.
    And here is the pvp top 50 numbers.
    Summarized for all 5 servers, you get:

    • 91 (36.4%) Archer
    • 19 (7.6%) Barbarian
    • 31 (12.4%) Blademaster
    • 30 (12%) Cleric
    • 53 (21.2%) Venomancer
    • 26 (10.4%) Wizard

    Now look at people's responses to "what class are you" polls:

    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=5912
    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=2552
    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=182

    Sum them together (you generally shouldn't do this since there will be duplicate entries, but we've got small samples so take what we can get), and you get:

    • 49 (17.07%) Archer
    • 26 (9.06%) Barbarian
    • 46 (16.03%) Blademaster
    • 45 (15.68%) Cleric
    • 77 (26.83%) Venomancer
    • 44 (15.33%) Wizard

    Work out ratios between the two sets of percentages to find a "PvP power" ranking -- how over- or under-represented the classes are in the top-50 PvP rankings:

    • 2.132 Archer
    • 0.839 Barbarian
    • 0.790 Venomancer
    • 0.774 Blademaster
    • 0.765 Cleric
    • 0.678 Wizard

    Basically, archers are waaay overpowered, and wizards are slightly underpowered. The other 4 classes are clumped up really close to each other and almost identical in rating. So the startling conclusion here is that the veno is perfectly in balance with the 3 classes everyone generally regards as not over- or under-powered in PvP. The barb actually beats the veno, although the difference is so slight I'd call it statistical noise. In fact the correlation between the middle 4 in the PvP rankings and poll data are so close that I have to tip my hat to PWI for balancing it so well.

    I would argue that a more accurate rating could be obtained with a # of PvP kills vs. # of PvP deaths ratio. But since we don't have the latter figure, this is the best we can do.
  • turtlewax
    turtlewax Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I would argue that a more accurate rating could be obtained with a # of PvP kills vs. # of PvP deaths ratio.

    PvP rankings are pretty meaningless for this as they are the result of very unbalanced pking (the only way to do 30-50 kills per day, on average, is through one shotting newbies) and thus they do not represent some (power or) performance measure.
  • IceJazmin - Heavens Tear
    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,206 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    turtlewax wrote: »
    PvP rankings are pretty meaningless for this as they are the result of very unbalanced pking (the only way to do 30-50 kills per day, on average, is through one shotting newbies) and thus they do not represent some (power or) performance measure.

    That still means that other classes are better or as good as venos at ganking noobs, right?
    Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.
  • turtlewax
    turtlewax Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    Yes, to that I'd agree.
  • BludShot - Lost City
    BludShot - Lost City Posts: 106 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    The OP of this thread fails... so.. QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQq
    b:surrender
  • xxxdsmer
    xxxdsmer Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    ....Basically, archers are waaay overpowered, and wizards are slightly underpowered. The other 4 classes are clumped up really close to each other and almost identical in rating. So the startling conclusion here is that the veno is perfectly in balance with the 3 classes everyone generally regards as not over- or under-powered in PvP. The barb actually beats the veno, although the difference is so slight I'd call it statistical noise. In fact the correlation between the middle 4 in the PvP rankings and poll data are so close that I have to tip my hat to PWI for balancing it so well.

    I would argue that a more accurate rating could be obtained with a # of PvP kills vs. # of PvP deaths ratio. But since we don't have the latter figure, this is the best we can do.

    couldnt have said it better myself.
    ppl still dis-believe? copy and paste the link in my sig to ur address bar b:pleased
    i'm pro all classes, and against none in particular..
    but the age old QQ about venos is just that. OLD.
    QQ'd about a nix lately? check out this thread n tell me who's "OP" lol..
    (copy and paste this to address bar):
    pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=102172
  • The_Champion - Sanctuary
    The_Champion - Sanctuary Posts: 988 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    Konariraiden - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    ...you are unable to properly use Awesome-Sauce-Face. Therefore, you are completely UnderPowered.

    oh no he di'int



    Venoms are also very good looking.b:sin
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Sounds about right
  • XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver
    XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver Posts: 455 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I tried a cleric, and he got stuck at level 13 unable to kill level 10 mobs without his supply-stash charm ticking.

    Ironheart? Wellspring? Plume Shell? Kiting w/ Cyclone? Don't use that charm right off the bat? Stat so your attacks aren't so terrible?

    ...Doing something OTHER than just pressing the 'Plume Shot' button?

    Hell...I'm just reading off the stuff available to a 13 Cleric too. It gets even easier as the levels progress. Sounds like you're just too lazy to play a class that doesn't have it's own personal wall of meat to hide behind. b:shutup

    Oh...and I could kill Foxwings around that level too. And Minions of Alucard around 4x. Just takes me a bit longer. b:surrender
  • Vitenka - Dreamweaver
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver Posts: 4,125 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Ironheart? Wellspring? Plume Shell? Kiting w/ Cyclone? Don't use that charm right off the bat? Stat so your attacks aren't so terrible?

    Probably stats. Killing wasn't the problem, so much as it using up 75% of my mana to do so.
    Hell...I'm just reading off the stuff available to a 13 Cleric too. It gets even easier as the levels progress. Sounds like you're just too lazy to play a class that doesn't have it's own personal wall of meat to hide behind. b:shutup

    Oh no, really? Clerics are harder to play? That being, you know, my entire point?
  • XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver
    XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver Posts: 455 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    Except Clerics AREN'T hard to play? At all? o_O

    Anyways...back on topic. Venos aren't overpowered at all. It's the fact that they're the only class that can buy their own ultimate weapons and 'armor' thats the issue.
  • IceJazmin - Heavens Tear
    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,206 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Except Clerics AREN'T hard to play? At all? o_O

    Anyways...back on topic. Venos aren't overpowered at all. It's the fact that they're the only class that can buy their own ultimate weapons and 'armor' thats the issue.

    Isnt it sad that a veno has to buy their ultimate weapon and "armor" and they still average?
    Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.
  • Bowlinbob - Lost City
    Bowlinbob - Lost City Posts: 3,446 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Isnt it sad that a veno has to buy their ultimate weapon and "armor" and they still average?

    not average to everyone <_< arcane class's = squishy to venos
  • IceJazmin - Heavens Tear
    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,206 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    Bowlinbob - Lost City wrote: »
    not average to everyone <_< arcane class's = squishy to venos

    And arcane venos are also squishy to clerics, barbs, archers and bms...
    Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.
  • Bowlinbob - Lost City
    Bowlinbob - Lost City Posts: 3,446 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    And arcane venos are also squishy to clerics, barbs, archers and bms...

    Lets be honest, how many venos are arcane on pvp servers.. But I agree that they would be squishy to those classes, except for a cleric (unless the cleric surprises the veno) 1v1 arcane veno vs arcane cleric when both see each other comin, the veno will always win. *send pet, click bleed, fly away and wait*
  • IceJazmin - Heavens Tear
    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,206 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    Bowlinbob - Lost City wrote: »
    Lets be honest, how many venos are arcane on pvp servers.. But I agree that they would be squishy to those classes, except for a cleric (unless the cleric surprises the veno) 1v1 arcane veno vs arcane cleric when both see each other comin, the veno will always win. *send pet, click bleed, fly away and wait*

    If it is not a phoenix, pet is pretty irrelevant, since you can kill it fast.
    What happened to your purify and your genie skills? (after all, you saw her coming, this was not a gank). But yah, a robe cleric better have nice amount of HP to survice a phoenix, if that is what you meant by pet. However, you can kill it, using genie skills plus your own.

    I am not saying it is easy, and it will depend on range, if the fight started at plume shot/sleep range, there is a good chance veno will get die first, if it started outside plumeshot range.... than it would be rough... you would need plume shield, apoc pots, genie skills to last long enough to kill phoenix, than have the fly speed skill to go after veno.
    Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.
  • MentalEdge - Heavens Tear
    MentalEdge - Heavens Tear Posts: 629 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    Most clerics will lose a straight up fight because a trend i've noticed with them is they'll sit and stack ironheart all day long,a purge,amp and some fox biting and scratching will do the trick...i'm sure theres some very capable clerics out there who don't but well,they aren't very numerous.

    Possibly its my server choice thats the problem actually...
    Quit 100%...and surprised my forum account wasn't banned...yet
  • Bowlinbob - Lost City
    Bowlinbob - Lost City Posts: 3,446 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    If it is not a phoenix, pet is pretty irrelevant, since you can kill it fast.
    What happened to your purify and your genie skills? (after all, you saw her coming, this was not a gank). But yah, a robe cleric better have nice amount of HP to survice a phoenix, if that is what you meant by pet. However, you can kill it, using genie skills plus your own.

    I am not saying it is easy, and it will depend on range, if the fight started at plume shot/sleep range, there is a good chance veno will get die first, if it started outside plumeshot range.... than it would be rough... you would need plume shield, apoc pots, genie skills to last long enough to kill phoenix, than have the fly speed skill to go after veno.

    I agree about the pet being irrelevent, i dont have too much trouble if its a sawfly or a foxwing or something.. most of the time when nix gets to me i have 2 options.

    I can sleep it and risk getting stunned by the veno,

    or throw shell up and try reaching the veno to sleep veno, problem is by the time i get to firing range I have to purify to stay alive, and in that time the veno usually stuns and/or purges plume shell.

    Ive recently gotten bloodclot to help, but its on my other account.. gotta wait a week til i can switch it back, but I dont see how this will help since veno can just purge bloodclot correct? But I guess it will give me the time to get to firing range without bleed ticking me.

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