What is so bad about LA?

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  • GodlyHealz - Dreamweaver
    GodlyHealz - Dreamweaver Posts: 114 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    only LA has more crit and more pdef, and you will get plenty of HP from shards. Its not like you guys are wizards and have a choice between pure and LA.

    Basically its vit and LA, why not get the extra crit %.


    Then again magic hurts more so you might want to use robes but with the LA build you can use robes(might be a bit expensive keeping 2 pairs of armors though)

    Take it from my experience. I went 50 Levels with LA build. And thought i was tanking ok. But now that i re-stated for Full Vit Build, i can actually tank alot more than i could with LA. So i have to say that Full Vit for Survivability is the way to go. Plus the extra crit at most would be like 10% crit... with Full Vit you could allocate a few extra points in Mag for more attack or More in Vit for more survivability
  • Frijolero - Sanctuary
    Frijolero - Sanctuary Posts: 820 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    robes dont refine as well as LA :3

    according to pwdatabase, the HP given by refining for each armor are:

    Light Armor : 21, 42, 64, 90, 120, 158, 208, 273, 358, 468, 609, 787
    Arcane : 19, 38, 57, 81, 108, 143, 189, 247, 323, 423, 551, 712

    So each full refined part of LA will give you 75 more HP than the full refined arcane robes. I if you refine all 4 parts of the armor, that's 300 extra HP, not bad at all, that's a point to LA.

    Now, running the char simulator using a lvl 69 stats using all armor and weapon aviable to that level, we have the following results:

    Weapon used (Str, Mag) : Heavenly Pestle (39,207)

    Full Mag Arcane (5 Vit,41 Str,5 Dex,309 Mag)
    HP : 1410 + (712*4) = 4258 HP
    MP : 6230 MP
    P. Attack : 334-444
    M. Attack :1902-2711
    P. Def : 306
    Magic Defense : 3489

    3-Vit Arcane (107 Vit,41 Str,5 Dex,207 Mag)
    HP : 2430 + (712*4) = 5278 HP
    MP : 4802 MP
    P. Attack : 334-444
    M. Attack :1428-2036
    P. Def : 365
    Magic Defense : 3489

    Full Mag LA (5 Vit,70 Str,70 Dex,215 Mag)
    HP : 1410 + (787*4) = 4558 HP
    MP : 4914 MP
    P. Attack : 383-511
    M. Attack :1464-2088
    P. Def : 1179
    Magic Defense : 2145

    So far LA doesn't seems too bad. It has 300 more HP than the full mag and his phys and elemental resistance makes each damage balanced and can be esaily controlled by using a few stacked Ironheart. Full mag Arcane is gonna need a lil more stacked healing if he's gonna face a physical mob or combine it with plume shell (his high Mag can compensate the MP loss) . 3-Vit Arcane has the higest HP of them all, but the same weaknesses as the Full Mag and he's just 50 points below LA magic damage, so we can say both deals about the same damage/healing.
    Sliding we go, only fear on our side. To the edge of the wire and we rush with the tide.
    Although I'm still alive, pray to God I survive
    How long on this longest day, 'til we finally make it through.
    - June 6, 1944. The day earth stood still.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • DarkYin - Dreamweaver
    DarkYin - Dreamweaver Posts: 81 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    Aren't we supposed to stop at 50-60 Vit and pump Mag? b:puzzled
  • Frijolero - Sanctuary
    Frijolero - Sanctuary Posts: 820 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    DarkYin - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Aren't we supposed to stop at 50-60 Vit and pump Mag? b:puzzled

    yeah, you can do that too to ensure a decent amount of HP while havin a better magic output.

    let's play...
    50-Vit Arcane (50 Vit,41 Str,5 Dex,264 Mag) (level 69)
    HP : 1860 + (712*4) = 4744 HP
    MP : 5600 MP
    P. Attack : 334-444
    M. Attack :1692-2413
    P. Def : 332
    Magic Defense : 3488

    HP is a few hundreds HP above more LA and about 500 from Full Mag, while his attack/healing power is increased in about 400. Doesn't look bad if you want to add more survivality to your cleric without sacryficing magic or switching to LA.
    Sliding we go, only fear on our side. To the edge of the wire and we rush with the tide.
    Although I'm still alive, pray to God I survive
    How long on this longest day, 'til we finally make it through.
    - June 6, 1944. The day earth stood still.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Megalomania - Harshlands
    Megalomania - Harshlands Posts: 146 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    what the hell only 40% of my post shows up, i cba re-writing this.
    [SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=5691797002&dateline=1281566012[/SIGPIC]
  • Frijolero - Sanctuary
    Frijolero - Sanctuary Posts: 820 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    Megalomania - Harshlands wrote: »
    what the hell only 40% of my post shows up, i cba re-writing this.

    happened to me a few times too. better make a copy of your post on a notepad before clickin on the Reply button...
    Sliding we go, only fear on our side. To the edge of the wire and we rush with the tide.
    Although I'm still alive, pray to God I survive
    How long on this longest day, 'til we finally make it through.
    - June 6, 1944. The day earth stood still.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Ahira - Lost City
    Ahira - Lost City Posts: 791 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    Frijolero - Sanctuary wrote: »
    according to pwdatabase, the HP given by refining for each armor are:

    Light Armor : 21, 42, 64, 90, 120, 158, 208, 273, 358, 468, 609, 787
    Arcane : 19, 38, 57, 81, 108, 143, 189, 247, 323, 423, 551, 712

    So each full refined part of LA will give you 75 more HP than the full refined arcane robes. I if you refine all 4 parts of the armor, that's 300 extra HP, not bad at all, that's a point to LA.

    Now, running the char simulator using a lvl 69 stats using all armor and weapon aviable to that level, we have the following results:

    Weapon used (Str, Mag) : Heavenly Pestle (39,207)

    Full Mag Arcane (5 Vit,41 Str,5 Dex,309 Mag)
    HP : 1410 + (712*4) = 4258 HP
    MP : 6230 MP
    P. Attack : 334-444
    M. Attack :1902-2711
    P. Def : 306
    Magic Defense : 3489

    3-Vit Arcane (107 Vit,41 Str,5 Dex,207 Mag)
    HP : 2430 + (712*4) = 5278 HP
    MP : 4802 MP
    P. Attack : 334-444
    M. Attack :1428-2036
    P. Def : 365
    Magic Defense : 3489

    Full Mag LA (5 Vit,70 Str,70 Dex,215 Mag)
    HP : 1410 + (787*4) = 4558 HP
    MP : 4914 MP
    P. Attack : 383-511
    M. Attack :1464-2088
    P. Def : 1179
    Magic Defense : 2145

    So far LA doesn't seems too bad. It has 300 more HP than the full mag and his phys and elemental resistance makes each damage balanced and can be esaily controlled by using a few stacked Ironheart. Full mag Arcane is gonna need a lil more stacked healing if he's gonna face a physical mob or combine it with plume shell (his high Mag can compensate the MP loss) . 3-Vit Arcane has the higest HP of them all, but the same weaknesses as the Full Mag and he's just 50 points below LA magic damage, so we can say both deals about the same damage/healing.

    Woah there for a second! Yes you're right the refinement from LA is higher than arcane but going from that to making comparisons at +12 refinements of all armors is pretty unrealistic! o_O

    Even at 90+ noone refines +12 on armors and you're making character simulations at lvl 69 where at the most only +2 or possibly +3 refinement takes place max! At those sorts of refinement levels the HP gained from refining LA over arcane is pretty negligible to be honest.
    --Retired--

    Factions: Forbiden, Genesis, Conqueror, BloodLust, Zen, Spectral
    Active October 2008- August 2009; Semi-active- May 2010
  • Frijolero - Sanctuary
    Frijolero - Sanctuary Posts: 820 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    Ahira - Lost City wrote: »
    Woah there for a second! Yes you're right the refinement from LA is higher than arcane but going from that to making comparisons at +12 refinements of all armors is pretty unrealistic! o_O

    Even at 90+ noone refines +12 on armors and you're making character simulations at lvl 69 where at the most only +2 or possibly +3 refinement takes place max! At those sorts of refinement levels the HP gained from refining LA over arcane is pretty negligible to be honest.

    Not really. When you do comparisons you want to know how each one will behave at max or endgame, even if you don't max it (we now noone will max a lvl 60 armor cause they try to save all for refine engame equipment). I know it's only at lvl 69, but still. I you got the info of higher levels you can run the simulation on those levels.
    Sliding we go, only fear on our side. To the edge of the wire and we rush with the tide.
    Although I'm still alive, pray to God I survive
    How long on this longest day, 'til we finally make it through.
    - June 6, 1944. The day earth stood still.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Mizuoni - Dreamweaver
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,533 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    Frijolero - Sanctuary wrote: »
    yeah, you can do that too to ensure a decent amount of HP while havin a better magic output.

    let's play...
    50-Vit Arcane (50 Vit,41 Str,5 Dex,264 Mag) (level 69)
    HP : 1860 + (712*4) = 4744 HP
    MP : 5600 MP
    P. Attack : 334-444
    M. Attack :1692-2413
    P. Def : 332
    Magic Defense : 3488

    HP is a few hundreds HP above more LA and about 500 from Full Mag, while his attack/healing power is increased in about 400. Doesn't look bad if you want to add more survivality to your cleric without sacryficing magic or switching to LA.

    that might be good, but if you want to pvp LA is a good choice. There is nothing like critting with tempest b:shocked(besides a wizard skill critting b:shocked)
    Ahira - Lost City wrote: »
    Woah there for a second! Yes you're right the refinement from LA is higher than arcane but going from that to making comparisons at +12 refinements of all armors is pretty unrealistic! o_O

    Even at 90+ noone refines +12 on armors and you're making character simulations at lvl 69 where at the most only +2 or possibly +3 refinement takes place max! At those sorts of refinement levels the HP gained from refining LA over arcane is pretty negligible to be honest.

    dont forget not only are you getting HP from refines but also from shards
    Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
    Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
    ...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
    Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
    So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze
  • Frijolero - Sanctuary
    Frijolero - Sanctuary Posts: 820 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    I Forgot to mention that the stats shown for each build comes from the common 1 star unrefined equipent, so the testing enviroment is pretty realistic.

    Only the HP is beign calculated using all 12 refining for each armor piece, but still the character's base HP is still shown, just adjust the extra HP according to how many total refining you wanna use
    Sliding we go, only fear on our side. To the edge of the wire and we rush with the tide.
    Although I'm still alive, pray to God I survive
    How long on this longest day, 'til we finally make it through.
    - June 6, 1944. The day earth stood still.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Mizuoni - Dreamweaver
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,533 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    Frijolero - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I Forgot to mention that the stats shown for each build comes from the common 1 star unrefined equipent, so the testing enviroment is pretty realistic.

    Only the HP is beign calculated using all 12 refining for each armor piece, but still the character's base HP is still shown, just adjust the extra HP according to how many total refining you wanna use

    who would wear that trash?
    at level 50 i started using 2 socket+ gear and sharding it.
    put 2 sockets and shard it
    i doubt anyone refines that low
    Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
    Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
    ...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
    Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
    So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze
  • Frijolero - Sanctuary
    Frijolero - Sanctuary Posts: 820 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    who would wear that trash?
    at level 50 i started using 2 socket+ gear and sharding it.
    put 2 sockets and shard it
    i doubt anyone refines that low

    "that trash" is used only to draw a comparion between each build and armor type. Statistically there's no difference between 1*, 2* or 3* armor. The numbers may vary but the % difference between each type of armor will remain almost untouched.

    I think I said it before on one of my earlier posts, but I dont consider shards on my comparisons since they are common for all builds (they add the same stats bonus regardless the type of equipment) and because of that they are relevant for an overall analysis. However, you can use them if you wanna test a specific situation, like if an arcane robe with 4 phys defense shards will be better or worse than a no sharded Light Armor (I'm not considering costs, only stats)
    Sliding we go, only fear on our side. To the edge of the wire and we rush with the tide.
    Although I'm still alive, pray to God I survive
    How long on this longest day, 'til we finally make it through.
    - June 6, 1944. The day earth stood still.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Ahira - Lost City
    Ahira - Lost City Posts: 791 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    Frijolero - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Not really. When you do comparisons you want to know how each one will behave at max or endgame, even if you don't max it (we now noone will max a lvl 60 armor cause they try to save all for refine engame equipment). I know it's only at lvl 69, but still. I you got the info of higher levels you can run the simulation on those levels.

    I dont disagree with that but even at 90+ people typically just +5 refine their armor. At +5 the HP difference to arcane is 28 which is good but hardly huge.

    I do like the idea of a full magic type LA build but I suggest you should adjust the comparisons to make them more realistic and accessible.
    --Retired--

    Factions: Forbiden, Genesis, Conqueror, BloodLust, Zen, Spectral
    Active October 2008- August 2009; Semi-active- May 2010
  • Ahira - Lost City
    Ahira - Lost City Posts: 791 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    dont forget not only are you getting HP from refines but also from shards

    Comparison was not meant to go into sharding as far as i understand. b:bye
    --Retired--

    Factions: Forbiden, Genesis, Conqueror, BloodLust, Zen, Spectral
    Active October 2008- August 2009; Semi-active- May 2010
  • akuko
    akuko Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    Alyyy - Sanctuary wrote: »
    3 vit is too much

    and the flaming thats aboout arcane and LA is not about this build that has 3 vit <.<.....its either about pure or 1 or 2 vit lol....<.<

    Agreed! 3vit wtf. IMO enough str to wear gear, 50 vit (for ur entire career) rest mag.

    need more HP shards my friends shards... pretent ur a veno, instead of 20mill+ invest in herc, think gear

    lvl 70 Arcane Cleric

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