Do the Devs know or care.....?(semivent)

Aoe - Heavens Tear · July 2009

Guardianmp - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Not comparing a disabled person to someone who needs a quick fix, but comparing one potential addict to another addict. Fox stated that she is using the game to escape her real life....well, drug addicts use drugs to escape their real life.

Some people get addicted to drugs because their life sucks and they want an escape, some because they're bored and it gives them something to do, and some just because they have the luxury of being able to get and use the drugs without much problem.

Same thing goes for Computer/Video games (especially MMO's). People play them as an escape from real life, they play them because they're bored, or they play them (and spend money on them) because they can. People have even admitted on this forum to spending thousands of dollars in the cash shop and the game hasn't even been out for a year.

That is where my comparison of the people Fox described and the drug seeking patient's I've had to deal with came from.

I understand that too but what i meant by that is although she too may be addicted to the game. I think you're missing the point of whether or not she is begging for stuff or asking for help. I think she is just venting. Also as i said she might need a little more help and accomplishing goals than a normal player as stated in a few comments before this. Whether she understands and listens is up to her. Also she can't spend real life money in the game so the only really addiction would be time spend in this game. What people are saying of her is she is very kind and doesn't beg and tries to work for her own things. That is why i think your comparison is wrong. You're viewing her as an addict. However you really aren't reading what she is saying. She's not making much money so she might need to look at her spending habits and her armor build. Solandri seemed to hit it on the nail, that she isn't playing the game where she is making money in the positive but in the negative. I think though trying to explain and show her might be difficult because getting her to play or change a certain style could cause her to get bored or loose interest. As i said i don't know the disability. Further working with someone that is disabled(i do have that experience) is very different from working with someone who has a drug habit (also have that experience).
Also i would find it offensive to be compared to someone with a drug habit, just because i am struggling to earn money in the game and can't seem to get things i want. I think she just need to change her game mechanics is all.

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear · July 2009

there have been so many kind words to me here...and people i trusted hurting me as well, that i cant go on reading this. i cant even begin to answer all of the posts of kindness except by saying thank God there are good people here, and i wish i could play with you.

and to the cruel ones....i was raised in a wealthy family, and because i didnt 'ask for permission to marry'-at age 28!- my parents disowned me. my husband teaches in a small Catholic school that we have our children in, and because we want the best school and safe environment for them, it has meant that he only has a salary far, far smaller than any public school teacher. so we are in the 'working poor'/below poverty level. the stress of this radical difference, my own disabilties (PTSD,etc) and two children on the autistic spectrum is why my depression is unlikely to ever be cured. so i work to find ways to counteract it-playing games is one of many things i do to lift my spirits. my husband has gone to great lengths, giving up things he would like for himself, to buy me the best computer he could, because being online is one of the therapies my doctors prescribed. the beauty of PW has always been healing, and the pets,especially my beautiful kowlin, are the reason i play a veno to begin with. i have other alts, but the one brought me here was the veno. i dont level the moves on all....that would be impossible...though i do go to the 'mouse room' to raise the level of many, and as a change of pace.

to answer solandri/tiessa's post-yes, we have known each other from almost the beginning. her play style/goals has always been radically different than mine. and the reason she does not understand is that she has never believed in or understood depression, which has made it hard to explain things. my play style is more RPG, perhaps....when i play, i am a beautiful little fox with many animal friends. i go into human form when necessary, but i think of myself as properly being a little fox. childish, perhaps....and perhaps i am more of a child mentally than she is. i have never really known tiessa that well. she has sold me pets at far lower cost than she needed to, gave me a ring that i still use, but other than a few instances we have done as a squad, not played together, as Flauschkatz and i used to when all were in Artimis and WhiteFang together.

guys....many have said 'you cant always get what you want'. duh!! and the way i was raised, i am very aware of that, and want to make one thing clear

i never ask for anything. from anyone. here, or in the game. i earn it, or i dont get it. i am very grateful for the kindness of friends who give me things- it means they like me, and that is a gift far beyond the item, to me. i am not a beggar, though i have lived on the streets at one time, i literally starved and ate scraps out of trash before i would beg. i still hold to that standard, IRL and here in the virtual world.

i dont believe i can bear to read or write more here..the original point i tried to make has been lost .i never thought this would become a pillory for me. i wish i could erase this thread...it hurts too much. to those who have been kind in their posts, God bless and keep you. and the cruel ones, i will pray for you to understand, and hope this never happens to you...

Drazo - Dreamweaver · July 2009

I've only spent $50 for my up-coming herc and it won't be long untill I have 9999 SoFs and I have done little grinding too. How did I do it? Well you need another computer (preferably a laptop or quiet low-energy-consuming computer), a 'mule' account, an eye on the player economy and of course lots of patience - it may take months. The rest is trade secret. b:quiet

Yes there are more ways to earn money in-game. b:pleased

Shart - Dreamweaver · July 2009

The fact that you can play the game in its entirety without paying is their gift to you. Everything in the cash shop is added bonus, and you can get through the game without it.

I tend to agree that the pricing for many things is outrageous, however, a plethora of F2P games exist where advancement is HEAVILY based on cash shop purchases. Not only that; it's a huge pain in the **** to buy from their cash shops. They make cash points and purchases untradeable or easily susceptible to players scamming.

Gunga - Lost City · July 2009

This game is actually wonderful as far as RL cash items goes...... Ive played plenty of f2p games and lemme tell u this one is the best by far. One game i have played, Mabinogi (ugh, fail i kno b:avoid), actually made u pay to make new characters. You got one character to customize ONCE if you didn;t like how they looked u had to pay to change it or pay to make a new character. It was ridiculous. If you accidentally deleted your char. then you wuldnt be allowed to make another one without paying. I feel where you are coming from but be happy tht you didnt get a "F2P" game tht required you pay b:shocked

Lorddeerskin - Heavens Tear · July 2009

As i read these posts in this thread, I realize that most of the people posting have no idea who they're talking to, though some people might, who may be related. And maybe this person is older and has had a hard time of life and is very depressed, comes here to relax, only to be confronted with the quibbles of seemingly bratty teenagers, making them feel worse, driving the depression deeper. This has been going on for the last four months, possibly longer incessantly, and the worst just keeps getting worse, nobody realizes how much it hurts another person. These people you talk and interact with are alive: there are couples; families, in whole or in part, some, if not most, have parent(s) who work full time jobs; some people are disabled, some temporarily impaired; the vast majority of which are TIRED of listening to those who constantly fight instead of helping those who are within their rights to complain about the harassments they are constantly forced to put up with.

The present opposing people have constantly been flaming my mom, who is FoxRunning, and it saddens me deeply that people will go to great lengths to verbally abuse another person, regardless of whom it may affect. As a 17 y/o son watching his mom being so verbally abused, i'm shocked and upset that it still does go on. Out of respect, i request that this thread be closed: further arguing is useless and wrong.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary · July 2009

Lorddeerskin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

As i read these posts in this thread, I realize that most of the people posting have no idea who they're talking to, though some people might, who may be related. And maybe this person is older and has had a hard time of life and is very depressed, comes here to relax, only to be confronted with the quibbles of seemingly bratty teenagers, making them feel worse, driving the depression deeper. This has been going on for the last four months, possibly longer incessantly, and the worst just keeps getting worse, nobody realizes how much it hurts another person. These people you talk and interact with are alive: there are couples; families, in whole or in part, some, if not most, have parent(s) who work full time jobs; some people are disabled, some temporarily impaired; the vast majority of which are TIRED of listening to those who constantly fight instead of helping those who are within their rights to complain about the harassments they are constantly forced to put up with.

The present opposing people have constantly been flaming my mom, who is FoxRunning, and it saddens me deeply that people will go to great lengths to verbally abuse another person, regardless of whom it may affect. As a 17 y/o son watching his mom being so verbally abused, i'm shocked and upset that it still does go on. Out of respect, i request that this thread be closed: further arguing is useless and wrong.

no one has once insulted your mom in this thread, theres just a ton of options avaliable out there for the disabled to get ahead. just read solandri's post a few pages back, the biggest problem is her method of play, it drives her broke. if she cannot afford to earn a herc or phoenix or whatever, its because of those habits hes mentioned.

i myself recieve SSI, and i have earned both herc and phoenix off in game coin in 2 weeks each, its not hard at all :P.

BratFury - Heavens Tear · July 2009

b:angryb:angryb:angry

tweakz wrote: »

If you can afford a good enough computer + internet to play this game decently: You're not that poor.Wow are you wrong. I bought my computer off of someone who just didn't want it. They offered it to me for 200$ and allowed me to pay 25$ a month until I had it paid off. That was what I could afford. IF you wanna call that wealthy or rich be my guest. Most people would call that someone in poverty trying to get something they otherwise couldn't have. Gamblers don't win money: they recover losses, and poor aren't poor because of low income.Wow... My dad had the same job for 28 years. One day they explained to him that they was shutting the doors and moving to Mexico because the labor was so much cheaper there. You all have one month left to work before we do this, you will receive 3 months severance pay. My dad started that job in 1979. His education was not high enough to even begin to get another good decent paying job. However; this job did offer college up to 1 year tuition as a "severance" for years of service. He couldn't go a year without a job so he did something quick, he became a truck driver. Pay is decent but he's paid with his health. Now you tell me, HOW ON EARTH he is POOR of his own fault?Or maybe these people who have lost job after job with the failing economy the past 2 years or so. I guess they are poor by choice as well. If you make minimum wage which is around 7.00 an hour at 40 hours a week that is equal to280.00 a week BEFORE taxes. That is 1120.00 a month. Most middle class people that wouldn't even pay their house payment. And a man with a family is expected to survive on that? WAKE UP. You must be one of those high class society people who haven't a ?CLUE? what its actually like to get out in the real world. Even with the best of budgeting its pretty difficult to make it on 1120.00 a month.

You people that can live off benefits already have it better than the people living off ~minimum wage when it comes to this game.You are a real GEM. I'd hate to know you in real life. MY mother is disabled at this point and time. She makes less than 1k a month in disability. Because what was considered a lot of money 30 years ago is considered NOTHING now. Even for a single person, that isn't much. In addition, you have a major unfair amount of time to earn in game coin.TRUST ME HUNNY my mom would trade you her disability for the ability to go to work in a manner of seconds. SECONDS!!!! She'd let you have it, and all the "free" time you think she has for the ability to walk right, stand straight, and not hurt every day of her life. You don't even have to grind to earn coin: merchanting is part of the game!Here is a thought, if you don't grind to earn coins, how do you get the merchandise? Don't you need to grind for that too? Just an F?YI

They were paid to fight and kill as mercenaries, for war profiteers. -No respect for people who have such high disregard for life. Many people think this, I'm one of the few brave enough to speak it.Yeah, I can see how tossing a 17 year old boy into battle because he was "drafted" was him being paid to fight and kill as a mercenary. Although my uncle did get one thing from getting his legs blown off in war, he got a purple heart form the US GOVT. Yeah.. in what world is that totally worth it?

Shart - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The fact that you can play the game in its entirety without paying is their gift to you. Everything in the cash shop is added bonus, and you can get through the game without it.Really? Wow! You mean all those jerks who DON'T want a veno in their squad to help them do anything without a HERC didn't get that memo? BY all means please wc this and spam it even.

I tend to agree that the pricing for many things is outrageous, however, a plethora of F2P games exist where advancement is HEAVILY based on cash shop purchases. Not only that; it's a huge pain in the **** to buy from their cash shops. They make cash points and purchases untradeable or easily susceptible to players scamming.

Nakhimov - Lost City · July 2009

I don't mean to be rude in any way, but the beauty of PWI and the reason I continue to play is because you don't HAVE to spend any money at all on the game.

I've put a total of $20 into the game (birthday money) and I can still play my money-sink class perfectly fine. I'm sorry that you're having troubles affording nix and herc, maybe just try grinding an extra 15 min every day and put 10k into bank to save?

I've been doing that since lvl 70 and I'm pretty sure I'll be able to afford Undine Strike as soon as I hit 79 (costs about 4mil)

Also, if you're depressed, I reccomend you seek professional help. There are lots of programs in place to assist yourself and others. I might especially reccomend support groups, they've seemed to help myself and others afflicted with depression in the past quite well.

Aoe - Heavens Tear · July 2009

To Tweak,

*face palm*

I have it better than anyone else not on SSI?
Then please by all means come to my house explain to my children why there mom has to spend time in the hospital scared that she may never return. Come please and live this body that hurts constantly day in an day out. So much that i can even feel it in my blood. Try having heart inflammation, asthma attacks, skin rashes and deterioration, fainting spells, and many other numerous problems. Explain to my job which i recievedl $2000 bi weekly why i had to leave it because i could no longer function and work it properly and had to accept $1300 monthly to support my household. Oh wait i suppose because i can't work i live the high life. I wonder how that seems from the hospital room watching the world pass me by or from my bedroom wishing i could do the things i used to. Better yet why don't you take my shoes and be the one who had to call my mom and tell her oldest daughter has a terminal disease and could die at any given moment.

Wait why even waste such words on a kid who would never understand the life that some of us live. GM's won't close the thread to monday because no one works on sunday. However even for a flame or a troll that comment is low. Fox i hope you dont take what i say as an insult to you. I think you just need to change your gaming style to make money. Im almost half way to my nix i think you can do the same. Follow some of solandri's advice you can make some money to support the nix within a few months.

tweakz · July 2009

Wow are you wrong. I bought my computer off of someone who just didn't want it. They offered it to me for 200$ and allowed me to pay 25$ a month until I had it paid off.

A good example of why people are poor. -Buying beyond their means. Basically what was meant by:

Gamblers don't win money: they recover losses, and poor aren't poor because of low income.

You must be one of those high class society people who haven't a ?CLUE?

Homeless at 16 and a couple times since. Currently at minimum wage / unemployment.

.You are a real GEM. I'd hate to know you in real life. MY mother is disabled at this point and time. She makes less than 1k a month in disability.

More than I'm getting.

Because what was considered a lot of money 30 years ago is considered NOTHING now. Even for a single person, that isn't much.

You don't have to compare yourself to the Jones's, and that's what you're doing when you use the word "considered".

TRUST ME HUNNY my mom would trade you her disability for the ability to go to work in a manner of seconds. SECONDS!!!! She'd let you have it, and all the "free" time you think she has for the ability to walk right, stand straight, and not hurt every day of her life.

I've been disabled. I know it sucks, especially with all the torturous tests and meds they like to put you through. But what does it have to do with what's being argued here?

!Here is a thought, if you don't grind to earn coins, how do you get the merchandise? Don't you need to grind for that too? Just an F?YI

Buy and sell?

Yeah, I can see how tossing a 17 year old boy into battle because he was "drafted" was him being paid to fight and kill as a mercenary.

All slavery is voluntary.

Although my uncle did get one thing from getting his legs blown off in war, he got a purple heart form the US GOVT. Yeah.. in what world is that totally worth it?

Hopefully it serves as a lesson to future generations. If we can't learn from the past...

Aoe wrote:

I have it better than anyone else not on SSI.

Try proper context?

I've been much poorer than anyone's mentioned in this thread. I've been through being disabled and living through excruciating pain and depression. I failed at 2 suicide attempts to try to escape it. I've been living on less than what people are complaining about here for the past 6 years. The difference is, I'm not trying resorting to pity for panhandling. I worked for my Nix, and Herc in game, and so have others. The game is more than good to people of low income. My words aren't put here to be mean or flaming: they're here to inspire.

Aoe - Heavens Tear · July 2009

tweakz wrote: »

Try proper context?

There fixed it for you. But since you want to nit pick at that and not at the content of my statement shows that you know you are in the wrong for that statement.

The day you wake up and have an unfortunate event. Like getting an illness, or getting into an accident and find yourself helpless. Also when you lose your job like so many other people have lately. Or when you are elderly and fine your pension stolen. I hope you regret those words Nothing in life is promised to you not good health, a job, or a home. One day you could be wealthy then the next day you're a beggar in the streets. You live in the comforts of your own life protected and blinded from the real world, because of that you can't relate or understand how someone like me feels. That comment you made was cruel and hurtful.

Though none of the things I listed may ever happen to you in real life. I feel sorry for you, you lack something so important which one day I hope you figure out what it is.

I would never want to trade places with a person like you, since I wouldn't wish my situation on my worst enemy. Also I would never want to have your ideals or thoughtlessness towards others, or your lack of compassion. I wish you well tweak hopefully you can keep that arrogance all your life.

No one is pan handling for anything the op is just venting her feelings out. Read a bit closer so you can see and understand what she is saying. She is frustrated, and you took an opportunity to kick her while she is down.

As far as my SLE, i was blood tested and it finally showed through so yes it is proven that i have it. It took them til i was was 23 yrs old to figure out what was wrong. Even them there are people who can live normal lives with it unfortunately i am not one of those. I started showing symptoms as young as 16 and as you know the guinea pig phase, however more and more i kept developing problems. Already somethings were to late to fix. I was able to even file a law suit with an old doctor because he over looked some major concerns only because he felt i was too young to have most of the issues. I finally was able to find help from a more experienced doctor out of my city to do the testing with the aid of my family who too were scared as they watched my health diminishing. I am fortunate i have not died yet as those in my therapy group have died withing two months of diagnosis, yet there are also those who have lived 20 years and are still a live although they have problems i look up to them and hopes i can too acheive that length of time.

Nakhimov - Lost City · July 2009

NO I HAVE IT WORSE MY POINT IS MORE VALID

Some people compare e-peens, others compare irl suffering.

Let's get back to the inital topic, if we could.

scridon · July 2009

Maybe I can teach people who may be interested how to fish. I don't have alot of time but I can probably cover a few things.

First, one of the best ways to make money in this game is to farm materials from the mines dotted all over the map. This can be a very boring venture but you are spending nothing but time.

The best way to farm mines is to learn a route. If you don't know a route, perhaps you have a friend who will teach you. A good route would be one that spawns the mines as soon as you are in the area of the mine on your next rotation.

Mid mats are likely the most desired set of materials on all servers as they are needed for ultimate substance. If you can find and run mid mat routes like I outlined above, you can make millions. However as mid mats are the most desired, a lot of people farm the routes, which means it can be tough to catch a route. Farming high mats is probably your next best option until you are able to farm special mats.

Another good (and less boring for me at least) way to make money is to play the market. Find people who are selling goods for lower then average price, buy and resell for more.

Your best bet is to find the items that people most desire. This way it is easier to resell and less work trying to remember prices for everything. To get the best idea of what prices are you will just have to check around shops and the auction house and listen to the chatter. Its doesn't really take to much time to get a feel for the prices.

And one last tip. Don't go spending all your money on something you desire. Instead try to buy bit by bit as you can afford it without spending all your money on things you will not resell. It takes money to make money most of the time. Don't get hung up on what other people have, some people are far to rich for their own good.b:chuckle

Good luck, I hope this helps to some degree.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary · July 2009

scridon wrote: »

Maybe I can teach people who may be interested how to fish. I don't have alot of time but I can probably cover a few things.

First, one of the best ways to make money in this game is to farm materials from the mines dotted all over the map. This can be a very boring venture but you are spending nothing but time.

The best way to farm mines is to learn a route. If you don't know a route, perhaps you have a friend who will teach you. A good route would be one that spawns the mines as soon as you are in the area of the mine on your next rotation.

Mid mats are likely the most desired set of materials on all servers as they are needed for ultimate substance. If you can find and run mid mat routes like I outlined above, you can make millions. However as mid mats are the most desired, a lot of people farm the routes, which means it can be tough to catch a route. Farming high mats is probably your next best option until you are able to farm special mats.

Another good (and less boring for me at least) way to make money is to play the market. Find people who are selling goods for lower then average price, buy and resell for more.

Your best bet is to find the items that people most desire. This way it is easier to resell and less work trying to remember prices for everything. To get the best idea of what prices are you will just have to check around shops and the auction house and listen to the chatter. Its doesn't really take to much time to get a feel for the prices.

And one last tip. Don't go spending all your money on something you desire. Instead try to buy bit by bit as you can afford it without spending all your money on things you will not resell. It takes money to make money most of the time. Don't get hung up on what other people have, some people are far to rich for their own good.b:chuckle

Good luck, I hope this helps to some degree.

scridon lies, he makes bank off selling objectionable pictures of the outlaw girls, he advertises it in WC. you get a free calendar upon joining.

tweakz · July 2009

Aoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

As far as my SLE, i was blood tested and it finally showed through so yes it is proven that i have it.

Prove? I'm very much interested in how this test works since:

Is there a test for systemic lupus?
No, there is not a single diagnostic test for SLE.

Why is SLE so difficult to diagnose?
For a number of reasons-
SLE is a multi-system disease, & before a multi-system disease can be diagnosed, there have to be symptoms in many parts of the body & lab work (blood tests) that supports the presence of a multi-system disease.
SLE is also difficult to diagnose because it is a disease that does not typically develop rapidly, but develops slowly & evolves over time. Symptoms come & go, it can take time for the disease to show up in blood tests, which one time can be positive & the next be negative again. It can take months or even years for enough symptoms to show up for the doctor to be able to make an accurate diagnosis.
SLE is known as a great imitator, because it mimics so many other diseases & conditions, which often have to be ruled out.
SLE is difficult to diagnose because there is no one diagnostic test for lupus, the doctor has to do a full examination of the patient & do various tests, before looking at all the evidence & coming to a conclusion.

How is SLE diagnosed?
Physicians have to gather information from a variety of sources- past medical history, lab tests & current symptoms. They use a list of 11 criteria to help diagnose SLE. Generally, a person needs to satisfy at least 4 out of the 11 criteria before a diagnosis can be made. (see the diagnosis page for more info.)

- http://www.uklupus.co.uk/new.html

According to all the criteria: I had SLE. I'd encourage you to research the topics I gave. I've come across 3 others so far that have recovered thanks to the information.

There fixed it for you.

Nope. You still missed the context, and still seem to be focused on self pity which isn't the point. The game is more than generous to people of low income.

NO I HAVE IT WORSE MY POINT IS MORE VALID

You win! b:laugh

BratFury - Heavens Tear · July 2009

b:angryb:angryb:shutup

tweakz wrote: »

A good example of why people are poor. -Buying beyond their means. Basically what was meant by:

No what was meant by it, was that you don't have to be "rich" to own a computer. People on low incomes find other means, or really nice people. Besides who is to say the OP wasn't given a computer? You don't know everyones walk of life.

Homeless at 16 and a couple times since. Currently at minimum wage / unemployment.
Then you of all people should understand. I'm really unsure of why; with this background, you would post such negative comments.

More than I'm getting.
And again this should only FURTHER help you to understand.

You don't have to compare yourself to the Jones's, and that's what you're doing when you use the word "considered".
No, what I was doing was trying to explain is that right now 10% of ones pay check is way more than it was 30 years ago. So for those drawing SSA/SSI their money is much lower, than someone who will draw 30 years from now. NO WHERE in the word considered does it or did it mean "compared to". I have no idea where you came up with this concept, wasn't what I meant at all.

I've been disabled. I know it sucks, especially with all the torturous tests and meds they like to put you through. But what does it have to do with what's being argued here?

DID YOU EVEN READ THE OP? OR WERE YOU SO EXCITED AT THE CHANCE TO BELITTLE SOMEONE THAT YOU WENT STRAIGHT TO REPLY?THE OP IS DISABLED, BEING DISABLED HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH HER POST!

Buy and sell?
Ok the original theory was that you could gain coins without grinding (you said this not me). Then I made the comment that you have to grind to get in game merchandise. Since according to you its all about merchanting. Your response was the above, Buy and sell? How do you first obtain the items to buy in order to sell without grinding for them? I'd really like to know as I'm sure a lot would. As the issue here was not buying/gaining things out of the cash shop. So there IMO is no way to do this without grinding unless you've got a silver spoon in your mouth and someone is giving you a lot of stuff in game. Please enlighten me.

All slavery is voluntary.
Right, when given the choice to live or die? This comment falls right there with the "NO COMPASSION" clause. However; I tend to think its just assinine.

Hopefully it serves as a lesson to future generations. If we can't learn from the past...

Yes of course, all future generations should know.. that if you go up against Tweakz he/she will only further irritate, belittle and smack you when ur down. B/c that is how someone else makes themselves feel more worth.

Seriously, life lesson for ya... life is unfair. Some people cope with it and move on accordingly. Others can't do that, for a multitude of reasons. I've compassion for both. Not everyone knows how to make lemonade as they have never known of sugar..

hawk · July 2009

Yeesh. Closing this before things get more messy than they already are. If anyone wishes to debate this topic further, please do it in off topic.

Do the Devs know or care.....?(semivent)

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