Fists??

_XBloodX_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

hi um, i just have a few questions about fist BMs.

1.)-Are Fist BMs ever wanted in TW/TW/Zehn?
2.)-Are Fist BMs any good at PVP/TW? (i hope to do alot of pvp around lv 85+)
3.)-In a 1vs1 vs a axe BM who would win ?
4.)-Are fist bms fun?(i want your own personal opinion on this question =p)
5.)-What would be a good build for a fist BM?

And thats basically it.
Thank you (:

1.- No. Your job is to stun and throw Dragon.

2.- No.

3.- The one with the most money.

4.- Depends what is fun to you.

5.- 6 STR and 4 DEX or 5 STR, 4 DEX and 1 VIT per level.

alkaiza wrote: »

Her opinion as someone who have used all the weapons in all the situations, using the end game equipment and knowing what it is like.

Fixed.

10 characters.

Taleon - Heavens Tear wrote: »

1.)-Are Fist BMs ever wanted in TW/TW/Zehn?
TW BM's are wanted for stun more then anything ( normally ) but also AOE

2.)-Are Fist BMs any good at PVP/TW? (i hope to do alot of pvp around lv 85+)
PVP ( purely put ) has more to do with who has the jump on who

3.)-In a 1vs1 vs a axe BM who would win ?
The player that knows their class better then other

4.)-Are fist bms fun?(i want your own personal opinion on this question =p)
I have had a lot of fun playing a fist BM, tho not on this server. Have pulled off some HUGE numbers as far as chains and crits. But few play them because they are a bit less practical compared to some other lines.

5.)-What would be a good build for a fist BM?
Just enough Str to wear heavy armor, capping Vit near 50 ( not all agree, but will be almost nill till later levels ) placing the rest into Dex. You will have to do a lot of refining till higher levels because of the lower Vit, and having to pump your Dex.

@taleon
You made me have more faith in fists, when someone know how to play their class right they own. This is great as well should remind people about this, but in 1. how can people not want demon fist BMs for AOE, don't shadowless kick get granted AOE? But I'm going sage for DEF purposes so yeah.... heavens tear ftw? b:chuckle

Lyndura - Lost City wrote: »

1.- No. Your job is to stun and throw Dragon.

2.- No.

3.- The one with the most money.

4.- Depends what is fun to you.

5.- 6 STR and 4 DEX or 5 STR, 4 DEX and 1 VIT per level.

@Lyundra
I only agree with what i bolded lol, once again, class owns if they can play their class. You say fists aren't good, yet you say the one with the most money wins in PVP. money + skill = really good... But most likely skill does. Bringing boosters in PVP does NOT require a skill, however skill does. So it sounds funny in what your saying babe b:shutup

Also 0.5 VIT per level is way too low, (at least its better than capping it), better off getting -% requirement gear would help, at least 1 VIT per level can help (To me its more comfortable swapping 1 STR to 1 VIT), after all, BMs are a melee class

Can't wait til this weekend so i can try out my BM ^^

Dakaruch - Lost City wrote: »

Yeah, i'm a lvl 81 bm, say whatever you want about not knowing enough about the game, etc, etc...

As a fist bm, you're not a pvp class. It's simple as that... At high lvls you're a pve beast, but you lack the stuns and aoes the other weapon paths provide. True, fists have a good attack speed and that might work nice for you, but considering you only have 2 stuns(1 not that reliable), a good axe bm will own you in pvp cause of the extra stun axes provide, poleblade bm cause of range, etc. And actually, in a duel, fists might do good, but when it comes to open pvp, you lack the dmg to bypass other bms charms. Or pretty much other classes charms aswell. >.>
You're not a pvp oriented class... I won't say that fists suck, actually there might be a few that do good on pvp... It's not easy though, and most bms that start as fists change to something else or get another mastery. Another thing, this game is not about skills to pvp, actually it's all about gears and refine lvl, skills are important, yes, but if you have a full set of +12 gear, then skills are not that important. Godly gears, all you need is a bit of skill to know what to do(basically play your char for 80-90 lvls get you that)
Feel free to bash this post as much as you want, call me noob, whatever... This is what i think from my personal experience. b:bye

<--- Points at server, PVE only n00b (just kidding, noob is an old word and stupid b:laugh), I haven't tested yet ^^, I don't really care for PVP and i am concerned about the VIT (0.5 per LVL!!? b:angry) more than the DMG. But yeah, i agree with you 100%.

Neltharius - Heavens Tear wrote: »

lol
the DPS of a fist bm > axe bm
a friend bm 90+ asked me if he could try to kill me
we were both in PK mode
so i was thinking
mehh.. fk it. usually i just sit there letting other bm's going at me
and all they can do is tick my charm.
anyway, this guy sparked, which adds even more attk speed and damage
that mixed with the crits he hit due to high dex and barely any misses
ticked my charm and before i could react killed me before the charm ticked again.

ive never been killed by a solo bm before.
yes, nobody's just gonna sit there against a fist bm and let em go at ya
but it was just amazing to me
fist bm's are some of the best pve for bosses or w/e
the damage output they can put out is great

but i doubt they can perform as well as axe/hammer in PK

everybody keeps talking about poleblade axe/hammer and fist here
what happened to the BLADEmasters ?
those guys have fkn insane damage with their skills >.<
however, yeah, its only single target
idk i guess its just what you want to do in game. try out a few paths in the game, dude. you have nothing to lose cept a bit of sp early game. later on you'll b able to max everything out and just choose the path u like the most.

Finally someone else that realizes that nobody's gonna sit there and let fist atk nonstop. Yes fist bms can have more dps than axe dps, however PvP is NOT about dps. dps is important in pve, where the mob just sits there and takes ur hits, but in pvp the moment someone moves out of your range/stuns/sleeps/seals/etc. your dps is broken up. In PvP spike damage is much more important than DPS.

Dakaruch - Lost City wrote: »

Yeah, i'm a lvl 81 bm, say whatever you want about not knowing enough about the game, etc, etc...

As a fist bm, you're not a pvp class. It's simple as that... At high lvls you're a pve beast, but you lack the stuns and aoes the other weapon paths provide. True, fists have a good attack speed and that might work nice for you, but considering you only have 2 stuns(1 not that reliable), a good axe bm will own you in pvp cause of the extra stun axes provide, poleblade bm cause of range, etc. And actually, in a duel, fists might do good, but when it comes to open pvp, you lack the dmg to bypass other bms charms. Or pretty much other classes charms aswell. >.>
You're not a pvp oriented class... I won't say that fists suck, actually there might be a few that do good on pvp... It's not easy though, and most bms that start as fists change to something else or get another mastery. Another thing, this game is not about skills to pvp, actually it's all about gears and refine lvl, skills are important, yes, but if you have a full set of +12 gear, then skills are not that important. Godly gears, all you need is a bit of skill to know what to do(basically play your char for 80-90 lvls get you that)
Feel free to bash this post as much as you want, call me noob, whatever... This is what i think from my personal experience. b:bye

And where did u get that? from another axe bms guide? Who are u to say fist is only for pve as if it were a fact? are u a fist? If not dont conclude on stuff as it were true when urself is not a fist where all u have said is based on ur opinion... First of all pve includes the following, Monsters, Rb, grinding, farming,zhenning and tanking. yes fist can 1v1 mobs faster than any melee class in that fist are good but thats not the only face of pve, Rebirth, YES fist can RB but cant help do aoe DD against incoming waves but DD against RB bosses they are best melee DD, now comes grinding fist CAN aoe but whats the point? u dont havespike dmg like axe, u have less aoe skills than axe, ur single aoe below 90 has a long cooldown than axe if u realize that then waht makes u think fist is a pve beast? 1v1 grinding? where will dat take u? yeah u can do 1v1 against air mobs but keep in mind lvl 86+ means less chance of getting into an rb meaning more grinding and questing what are u gonna do? keep 1v1 on air mobs? where will dat take u? lots and lots of repair and time. Then comes bosses YES, fist is the best Dpser on bosses meaning if u are built right a fist CAN steal aggro from any tankers, even barbs (although they can take it back everytime they use aggro skill) but keep in mind a fist is NOT a tanker so stealing aggro really is not a good idea, so what would u do? ur gonna slow down, cap ur dpser a little when ur dding u will be like archers, waiting till tank deals 50% or they go melee, and u go with a bow >.< So fist meant for pve? dats a no no >.<

And yes fist dont suck,(coz im a fist) but my point is dat fist do well BOTH in PvE and PvP and what really makes a good Blademaster? Is it ur weapon of choice? I say no, its the player that makes ur character strong not the weapon class. SO it takes skill(and i mean player skill) so u urslef cant really say that fist is not meant for PvP coz i find that (base on my experience) false.

Filet - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yes Axe is only one path of a BM, and only one possibility, but TW is only one part of PWI. While the role of a BM in PWI may not be axe, the role of a BM in TW is to stun/dragon. Your argument that there are endless possibilities for a bm is pointless in this situation. Yes there are endless possibilities for a BM, but you have to adapt to each situation and use the best method for that said situation. TW is a part of PWI where Axe BMs can do a much better job helping out their FACTION as opposed to helping out themselves. Yes you may be able to kill more or do more damage as a fist bm, but an axe bm with stuns/dragon helps out the faction more. You go into TW to win as a faction, by using stuns and dragon well you help your faction win. Just because a class has the option to do something, doesn't mean it's the best option for the given situation. Clerics can dps well too, but you wouldn't want a cleric attacking instead of healing against Belial would you? Face it BMs in TW are not meant to be the ones doing the most killing, and fist has no strengths except for good dps.

What makes u say that Bms only purpose in TW is to stun and dragon? like i said every class (and also every weapon class for BM) has their own role and purpose im not saying a faction with all their blademaster as a fist is better than those with only axes same goes for the faction with just axes, my point in my post is that fist is not useless in TW, yeah Axe bms dragon is really proven useful but that doesnt make them the only way to make use of a BM in TW, But like YOU said u must know how to adapt to every situation there is(this is where hybrid jumps in) so what makes u say that stun and dragon is the only way to handle all the situation and pressure that is put on BMs in TWs, like i said u havent uncovered all the possibilities that a BM can do in any aspects of the game same goes for TW, unlike u im a fist, and ive seen and tried my ways of going around tw and aiding my party as a fist, like i said in another post FIST IS NOT AXE, so our role is not heading straight to the enemy stun and massively kill them all with their spam skills, fist is more like an close quarter archer, like an assassin, cant survive in a massive battle if the battles attention is on him(well almost anyone cant survive if everyone is attacking on him), thats why fist dont go first in battle, they deliver best dpser on a non moving target, meaning he needs help from other stuns such us stuns from archer, sleep from cleric or another stun from an axe bm but then again everyone do need stun right? who doesnt? thats why i said stunning is really accurate when it comes to Bms purpose in TW, but dragon? Bms only purpose? Then are u saying u should only have axe in TW? lol Im not saying fist is better in TW, nor am i saying axe is so if u were to apply what u just said that u must know how to adapt to every situation? Hybrid FTW then b:victory

Alkaiza, you are a noob. Get to level 90 (better if you do it in Lost City), get to experience the real PvP and TW, then post again with real knowledge instead of posting lots of non-sense.

Why is that every time someone asks a question in this forum regarding fists, it turns into a testosterone-fueled debate on axe vs fist?

First off, the game designers created it so that a BM could chose to take up fists - thus, no one on this forum has any qualification to say that they are "useless", "not good", whatever - I don't care if you're level 8 or level 150. It's there, the game designers included it for a reason, so they're obviously not as worthless as everyone makes them seem - get over it. If someone wants to take up fists, answer their questions without turning each and every thread into debate. It gets old, and its not helpful to newbies.

Second, to answer th OPs questions, I have no experience in PvP/TW/ect (by choice), so I am not qualified to answer those questions.

But yes, I find them amazingly fun to play - they're fast, they have nice numbers, and I love the kinda thrill I get from being an underdog, so to speak. I like watching the jaws of other BMs drop when I do something they said I couldn't. It's a different experience - instead of having a sword or axe or pole between you and your opponent, you are literally in its face.

However, that's me. You may find other things about it that make it fun to you, or you may decide you hate them. Only way to find out is to actually start playing.

Build-wise, I go with a very basic 3 dex 2 str every level. It allows me to wear heavy armor and equip my claws. What I lack in vit I make up with items that have +vit or HP recovery, and I like to think I'm smart enough to compliment that with proper use of marrows and diamond sutra.

I hope it helps somewhat

Eirel - Sanctuary wrote: »

Why is that every time someone asks a question in this forum regarding fists, it turns into a testosterone-fueled debate on axe vs fist?

First off, the game designers created it so that a BM could chose to take up fists - thus, no one on this forum has any qualification to say that they are "useless", "not good", whatever - I don't care if you're level 8 or level 150. It's there, the game designers included it for a reason, so they're obviously not as worthless as everyone makes them seem - get over it. If someone wants to take up fists, answer their questions without turning each and every thread into debate. It gets old, and its not helpful to newbies.

Second, to answer th OPs questions, I have no experience in PvP/TW/ect (by choice), so I am not qualified to answer those questions.

But yes, I find them amazingly fun to play - they're fast, they have nice numbers, and I love the kinda thrill I get from being an underdog, so to speak. I like watching the jaws of other BMs drop when I do something they said I couldn't. It's a different experience - instead of having a sword or axe or pole between you and your opponent, you are literally in its face.

However, that's me. You may find other things about it that make it fun to you, or you may decide you hate them. Only way to find out is to actually start playing.

Build-wise, I go with a very basic 3 dex 2 str every level. It allows me to wear heavy armor and equip my claws. What I lack in vit I make up with items that have +vit or HP recovery, and I like to think I'm smart enough to compliment that with proper use of marrows and diamond sutra.

I hope it helps somewhat

I never said that fists suck, I said that Axe BMs are more suited for TW than Fist BMs. Frankly I think the dps on a Fist BM is amazing and is its biggest strength. What I hate are Fist BMs that think because they're Fist they're super special and are rebels. Like in your sig you say that you're a proud member of the Fist/Claw Cult. Maybe if you stopped acting like a unique minority and a cult then more people would be open to your ideas. Instead whenever the average player sees a super hardcore fist bm fan they believe that whatever they say is just nonsensical rambling, even if it is true. If you want people to stop putting fist bms down then stop acting like the whole world is against you, it just pushes more people to go against you.

Anyway I'm arguing because Axe BMs are the most suited for TW. Just that in this case the other person happened to be a fist bm, if he was a sword bm or a pole bm I would've argued anyway.

To sum it up I have nothing against fist bms. I don't think they're useless, they have really good dps. It is possible to try too hard, when a new player comes to forums to choose a weapon path, and they see a fist bm screaming his head off over how fist bms are oppressed and how fist actually kicks **** at everything, then they'll be discouraged; nobody likes a raging fanatic.

Lyndura - Lost City wrote: »

Alkaiza, you are a noob. Get to level 90 (better if you do it in Lost City), get to experience the real PvP and TW, then post again with real knowledge instead of posting lots of non-sense.

Again another example of people who thinks they are so high lvl that all they think is that they know everything and becoz of that way of thinking gave them the right to call someone a noob,

and just for the record i am pvp build even though im in a pve server, now dont go telling me pve servers cant pvp that would just be so messed up.

New definition

Noob= someone who doesnt agree to a one sided, close minded high lvl person who thinks his experience is the only fact in the world.

Filet - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Thank you for just proving that Axe bms are more useful than Fist bms in TW.

I never disagreed dat axe are more useful in TW, like i said they are already proven useful in TW, but saying Stun and dragon is the ONLY purpose of a BM in TW? that i disagree. All my point is that fist is not useless in TW,(go back to the first question "are fists useful in TW?")

Filet - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Who amplifies damage? Axe BM with Heaven's Flame

venos or someones genie skill. Again my point is fist CAN PK and TW, i love teaming up with axe i love being a hybrid and able to use axes but the fact that most peeps say fist is not a pvp class or we suck or whatever is something i just want to clear up, i just want to clean the wrong impression that "THE HIGH LVLS" have put upon the fists.

Filet - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Who keeps the enemy stationary? Axe BM with Roar (Don't tell me Fist BM can roar too, I know that, but if you do then you're ruining your dps which is your biggest strength)

Archers, clerics,barbs, venos sword/pole bm and someones genie skill
Dats why said a fist is a great dpser in breaking charms when u can keep ur enemy stationary so instead of u doing dat u get help, same to axes everyone needs help in TW or pk fest, although axe are more capable of surviving alone than fist it still doesnt mean fists are useless in pvp

Filet - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Also yes roar lasts 6 seconds, but using spark takes another 2-3, which leaves you 3 seconds to break through charm and kill. If you spark before you stun any person who knows what they're doing will kite you when they see you spark.

Another wrong impression (due to all those mathematical equations), fist dmg isnt as low as some people think it is, that they think if fist doesnt spark, theyre dmg is weak, a fister can break charms even with normal atk WITH the PROPER gears such as getting - intervals, refinements and speed buffs. (EXAMPLE) ok in a pk fest where all peoples go crazy, i join in with 3 sparks(demon), i use will to counter stuns and sleeps from anyone has me targeted(except of cors if it was a wiz), and me heads towards an unwary robe mage(1 spark gone 2 spark and 99/100 chi left) i get close stun, and used advanced spark eruption (2 spark gone 99-35(from stun)=64/100 chi left) uses courage then atks( with atk rate of 2.00) within 3 secs, how many atk would have i landed? 2x3=6 lol(thats the best math i can do), 6 sparked atks within 3 secs, the first 3 sparked atk can tick the charm of a robe and if the 3 next atks didnt kill him, and stun time disappears and he tries to run away drake would finish him up(remember u are still in sparked mode) and what if ur atks crit? ANd besides can u really react that fast that right in the moment the stun disappears u are freakin 10 meters away from me? a few more hits would still land that would happen like in the span time of what 15 secs.( First 1-2 secs get near, 1.8 sec casting time, 6 sec stun time. 1-2 idle time) Oww and ive tried dat just not the 3 spark part( yes i am not lvl 90 yet a just a few steps late)

Filet - Heavens Tear wrote: »

To sum it up I have nothing against fist bms. I don't think they're useless, they have really good dps. It is possible to try too hard, when a new player comes to forums to choose a weapon path, and they see a fist bm screaming his head off over how fist bms are oppressed and how fist actually kicks **** at everything, then they'll be discouraged; nobody likes a raging fanatic.

Same, i have nothing against axe, and im not raging that fists kicks **** or better than axe or any class. And i say that we are put down too much coz we are, i just want to show that fist mastery shouldnt be quoted as, weakest BM path

alkaiza wrote: »

QQ

Are you 90 yet? No? Go level.

---

Why none of the "Imafistuserandimashowuallwedontsuck" players never go to Lost City?

Filet - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I never said that fists suck, ...

But maybe you should have?

After all, they would be using maybe one fourth of a blademaster's skill tree if they were "pure fist"?

(But I think alkaiza was talking about "pick stats for fists and invest in quality fists, but pick up axe skills for stuns and maybe sword skills for defense and maybe...")

Lyndura - Lost City wrote: »

I don't think that is important to know b:chuckle

you are right, but this is one of countles times that you say to somebody that he/she is too low level to give an opinion when you made your guide when you were about level 1.

Unless you were like some animals that are born with knowledge, you fall on the same category of your own comment. dont you?b:chuckle

Lyndura - Lost City wrote: »

Are you 90 yet? No? Go level.

---

Why none of the "Imafistuserandimashowuallwedontsuck" players never go to Lost City?

Just because im 90 below something does it mean i cant pvp? u think once ur 90 uve been granted the "experience" u so talk about? or ur endgame experience in another servers where u all Warriors were what? axe and pole? right? Im in a server where there are only a few 90 and probably only 1 or 2 or 3 are 100s so what lvl do u think most pvp happen? ANd when do peeps do pvp? only when there 90? EVen in a pve server pk wreaks of it, TW continues to waver so hey i know pvp, and fighting lvl 90s with ur pk squad of 80s doesnt all always mean a losing battle... I know that coz weve tried it. And hey, i started a lowbie i asked questions, and researched myself to know what im talking about and u, u just cant find urself to accept the fresh ideas of others just because it contradicts to ur "experience" and since u have, u call someone a noob when u urself only listens to what u have to say.

Ur so good, why dont u go to our Pve server and make a noob out of me, ANd why do we have go to lost just to prove our worth ? is lost city server the only server where "real" pvp happens? just because what? its pvp server ? U know why u say dat? coz its is freakin impossible for any of us to really do dat, and even if we did, too impossible to catch ur lvl in time which means impossible to prove to u what we can do(unless u really have no life and plays till the world ends), so u would laugh at us but try and do that in my server, im not that "high lvl" as u so say u can catch up, right?

Lyndura - Lost City wrote: »

I lol'ed. .

New definition

LOL- way of intimidating someone in argument
- way of answering questions
- probably had nothing to say
- the start of a pointless debate between 2 person and not the actual subject


Well its up to u lyndura, stay with ur fixed facts , and ill enjoy my "noob" (as u so call it) ways of learning and sticking to my ever changing facts, What i want to prove is that fist is as good as any class there is, may be weaker may be better but its a matter of opinion and a matter of whos playing, i dont have to prove u anything if im a noob or not if u think thats ur way of constructive criticism, go with it. All you really say is that fist sucks when compared to u and compared to other good players, yeah well probably coz ur an avid gamer coz ur a better player than the fist u were fighting and same goes for me i may have beaten the axes, the poles and the other class higher lvl than me coz i MAY have been a better player, or maybe i was lucky so finding out who is better? Thats an endless war between who ever is being compared. As to me all i care is dat all class should be treated accordingly and properly and fist or whatever class should not be quoted as "sucks", "weak" specially if its gonna come from high lvl like u, u should know by now newbies listen to u so would wana watch what ur posting even if its a ur own opinion or exp, coz everyone has dat, may be less maybe more so who are u to judge?