3 or More Better Lure Options than Kowlin?

tweakz
tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
edited July 2010 in Venomancer
Debuff Luring

For all I know, I made this up. I've noticed that it doesn't always take a fast lurer to lure. You can use a good tanker and still get the job done. To be even a better lurer, it could apply a debuff to make the luring safer. Tough is a buff that can make a pet about as resilient as a Hercules for a short period of time. So, we can send in our tanker pet with Tough, have it Bash, Flesh Ream or Normal Hit, then lay on a debuff like Threaten or Slow. The pet has to get a damaging hit in for the lure to be successful, so a fast squishy pet is out of the question.

Better Lurers:

1) Eldergoth Marksman For general all purpose luring, nothing beats a good ranged pet! Reaons already covered here: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=323451

2) Armored Bear If we look at the skills this bear comes with, we can see it was intended as a luring pet. Skills for luring tend to have longer cool downs like the 30 second one for Threaten or 60 second one for Tough. In addition to these skills, it comes with the very rare skill Pounce which has an 80% chance of stunning the enemy target and speeding up your attack rate. This skill if sold alone would run well over 5m on its own! So we can see this bear comes geared for luring with a good strong->bash-threaten routine. It's magic defense is also about 5 levels ahead of the Baby Hercules, and it has a balanced amount of physical defense. It also has a fairly high amount of HP (I believe in the top 10). It's speed isn't shabby either at a starter lvl of 8.5m/s. The bear can take a hit, so 1-2m/s more isn't quite as important.

3) Carapest Terror This family of pets tend to come with the Slow skill which slows down the target mob (*does not work on bosses, and some mobs that resist). They have a super high evasion ranking which compliments their decent HP and highest known magic defense. I suggest this pet as a compliment to the Bear since it will be best practice to clear out the physical mobs first, and use this one for the magic mobs left over.

:::::::::::::::

Aside from the bear, these are easily obtained pets that require little effort to maintain, while the Kowlins are rare and have run ~1.5m but lately is down to ~1.1m.

The Kowlin's physical defense sucks and it lacks a high evasion to compensate. It's default skills are geared as a support pet which is what you would want that fast and flashy pet for (you know.. pulling it out in a squad). The proponents of the Kowlin cite it's flashy red circle when it attacks as being the signal to unsummon. Because of this signal, it's said to be better for visually impaired or people using small play screens.

I don't believe there is one lure to suit all occasions best. The Eldergoth Marksman is suitable for most or general occasions. I think the Armored Bear with it's high magic / physical defense would be great for a fast physical ranged target like Stygean Quartermaster in FB79.

I don't even consider the Kowlin a luring pet anymore. I used to think it would be great for DWP Legion events, but Marksman has it beat there also with it's ability to hit without moving and it's hardiness. My last hope for it is in lower level FB help as it's size isn't overbearing and it can rush to get aggro off a tabber.

People believe what they want to, and no one wants to think they spent 1.1-1.6m on a pet for luring (because they heard it was the best) when there are better and cheaper luring pets. So, even if I'm totally correct in the Kowlin being unsuitable as a lurer, there will be people who will give their opposing opinions.
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Post edited by tweakz on
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Comments

  • peanut
    peanut Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    fb 89 cactus, long range, decent hp and defenses, and you dont have to lvl it
  • OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear
    OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    What do you have against the Kowlin, anyway? That it's a rare pet players believe is good for pulling and are willing to pay a lot for?

    I find it overburdening to get it to hold aggro when leveling on grinding mobs even with upgraded aggro skills.

    Do you mean while leveling one from low level to your characters level, or keeping one leveled period?
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  • taz860
    taz860 Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    SteelFang Lynx is not bad 8.8 m/s
    but i always use herc
  • Solandri - Heavens Tear
    Solandri - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    tweakz wrote: »
    I find it overburdening to get it to hold aggro when leveling on grinding mobs even with upgraded aggro skills. It would take a rare skill like claw or reflect to ease the leveling process, and that would be at the expense of another skill.
    Why are you leveling a non-grind pet on mobs? Just level it in the Cube. It's one of the easiest pets to level in there due to its speed.
    People believe what they want to, and no one wants to think they spent 1.1-1.6m on a pet for luring (because they heard it was the best) when there are better and cheaper luring pets. So, even if I'm totally correct in the Kowlin being unsuitable as a lurer, there will be people who will give their opposing opinions.
    Dunno why you're so convinced that everyone who likes a kowlin is being irrational. I didn't spent a single coin on my kowlin. I tamed it myself on my third try while taking a short break between solo FB59 runs. Unlike most people, I don't even like how it looks. I would actually prefer not to be using it.

    I've tried a variety of luring pets - my cub, guardian wolf, eldergoth marksman, petali, and herc. I stick with the kowlin because its high DPS and defaults skills let it double as a non-tanking party pet (saves time since I don't have to summon it every time I lure), and the big red whirlwind when it uses a skill makes it super-easy to time the unsummon when luring. Maybe you're ultra-proficient at timing unsummons, or maybe I just suck at it. But my kowlin dies a *lot* less than all the other luring pets I've tried, including the Eldergoth, simply because it lets me time the unsummon perfectly 98%-99% of the time so it doesn't get hit.

    Like all pets, you exploit its strengths and compensate for its weaknesses. Its low defense doesn't bother me because I almost always unsummon it before it gets hit when luring, and because it's never tanking when I use it in a group. I'm only thinking of switching my cub to be my debuff pet because (1) the kowlin dies easily to AOE, and (2) I don't like how the kowlin looks.
  • volst
    volst Posts: 180
    edited July 2009
    Cragrock Warrior - Level 85 golem
    8.7 speed
    High HP/Def
    Comes with free Tough

    It's huge, but like that really matters.
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Do you mean while leveling one from low level to your characters level, or keeping one leveled period?

    Keeping the one leveled.
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  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Why are you leveling a non-grind pet on mobs? Just level it in the Cube. It's one of the easiest pets to level in there due to its speed.

    I don't like the cube or the thought of wasting potential coin on using it. I may use it at level 90, but am done with it til then.
    Dunno why you're so convinced that everyone who likes a kowlin is being irrational. I didn't spent a single coin on my kowlin. I tamed it myself on my third try while taking a short break between solo FB59 runs. Unlike most people, I don't even like how it looks. I would actually prefer not to be using it.

    Let's be clear, I wouldn't say people are being irrational for liking the Kowlin: I'd say they're irrational for insisting that it's the best lure pet. The coin spent would be the potential coin you could get from it. I figured out it's strength today for grinding, and that's in applying a debuff to a mob faster than any other pet (before your first hit). Until recently I hadn't touched the debuffs largely because the lower level ones weren't worth the time applying on a decent hitting pet. (what's the point in casting a -25% defense if you're killing in 4 hits anyway?)
    I've tried a variety of luring pets - my cub, guardian wolf, eldergoth marksman, petali, and herc. I stick with the kowlin because its high DPS and defaults skills let it double as a non-tanking party pet (saves time since I don't have to summon it every time I lure), and the big red whirlwind when it uses a skill makes it super-easy to time the unsummon when luring.

    That's pretty much my suggested use for it (support pet). I'd also use it for lower level fbs. At lower levels the Kowlin is fine as a lure, but so are most pets. I mentioned how some pets are better for some situations. The Petali is certainly not the best in most situations but it does have it's moments on some. (I wouldn't suggest using a petali as your sole luring pet at all!)

    Like all pets, you exploit its strengths and compensate for its weaknesses. Its low defense doesn't bother me because I almost always unsummon it before it gets hit when luring, and because it's never tanking when I use it in a group.

    For this statement to bear more weight, you should include your level and or specific scenarios. For all we know, you're using it for lvl 60-65 stuff.
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  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    I've been field testing the bear in Eden (FB89). The bear is still virgin (no increased or exchanged skills, and still lvl 80). I thought pounce would be a good alternative to slow, but I don't perceive it working and it's still only an 80% chance of stun if it did work. Threaten certainly works, but takes some time to execute. Threaten doesn't count as a hit for luring, so it needs to wait for a regular hit or bash. Fortunately this bear comes packed with hp, defense, and tough (better than protect+strong or blessing for short term use): so it has the time to sit there through a couple skills. I've been using it for a good hour and so far it hasn't died despite me making it dilly dally to test these skills on luring these higher level elite mobs. It appears painfully slow at 8.5m/s because of it's gait, but that's much faster than a magmite. =P
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  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    What are some pets here for lower lvls for luring?My Veno is lvl 38.
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
  • IceJazmin - Heavens Tear
    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,206 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    What are some pets here for lower lvls for luring?My Veno is lvl 38.

    At that level even the golem would work, since lower level mobs are usualy slow. If you looking for something a little faster/smaller, any of the wolves, the scorpion or even the bunny could work as luring pets. (and scorpion would double as a dd as well)
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  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    What are some pets here for lower lvls for luring?My Veno is lvl 38.

    It shouldn't matter much until you're around lvl 60, but I'd suggest picking up an Eldergoth Marksman at 41 and keeping it leveled.
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  • Vidalaire - Heavens Tear
    Vidalaire - Heavens Tear Posts: 389 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    I use this for luring:

    Ninetailed Fox
    9.8 m/s

    It's the second fastest land pet available. I honestly don't care about skills/stats on my luring pet. All I want it to do is get in there fast, hit the target, and then unsummon/die. I'll be the first to point out that the Fox has horrible HP and phys def, but that's not an issue. I'm not using it to tank. The Fox can get to the target and hit it before the surrounding mobs realize it's there and aggro it. 9 times out of 10 when luring Wurlord, the Fox doesn't even get hit let alone die. All this from an easy to get pet(although you need to be 85+) and zero investment in skills/leveling.
  • Leonnator - Sanctuary
    Leonnator - Sanctuary Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    ^And it looks awsomeb:dirty
    Casters FTWb:victory
  • Energize - Heavens Tear
    Energize - Heavens Tear Posts: 217 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    To be honest, I don't think the benefits of a Kowlin wields its price tag. With that being said, before Herc, I just used my shaodu cub which worked wonders and I now obviously just use a Herc to lure and it works great.
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  • taz860
    taz860 Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    if u lure with herc dont use the reflection skill or u aggro all mobs around :P
    not that funny ^^
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    To be honest, I don't think the benefits of a Kowlin wields its price tag. With that being said, before Herc, I just used my shaodu cub which worked wonders and I now obviously just use a Herc to lure and it works great.

    The Shadou Cub comes with Tough making it somewhere close to the Herc's hardiness temporarily. The problem with using the Herc is that it could be damaged when you summon it to catch during that crucial time when it's not buffed.

    If you want something like a Herc to lure with, consider the Armored Bear which comes with skills for luring, and is faster.
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  • Kittennice - Heavens Tear
    Kittennice - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,744 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    A centipede. They go Zooooooooooooooooom
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  • Ana///stacia - Dreamweaver
    Ana///stacia - Dreamweaver Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    b:chucklebut what about the tabby as a lure ? ive used it and its pretty good long range debuffs, dont like the fact that its to hard to level, but i kinda like it beside the fact that its cuteb:thanks...
  • Lythianaa - Dreamweaver
    Lythianaa - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,307 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I use this for luring:

    Ninetailed Fox
    9.8 m/s

    It's the second fastest land pet available. I honestly don't care about skills/stats on my luring pet. All I want it to do is get in there fast, hit the target, and then unsummon/die. I'll be the first to point out that the Fox has horrible HP and phys def, but that's not an issue. I'm not using it to tank. The Fox can get to the target and hit it before the surrounding mobs realize it's there and aggro it. 9 times out of 10 when luring Wurlord, the Fox doesn't even get hit let alone die. All this from an easy to get pet(although you need to be 85+) and zero investment in skills/leveling.

    Hmmm, about the ninetails, have you tried using it before in, for example TT's? I'm interested whether it can survive pulling Wurlord or not.
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  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Hmmm, about the ninetails, have you tried using it before in, for example TT's? I'm interested whether it can survive pulling Wurlord or not.

    Unless you unsummon it quickly, it will get killed in the process.
  • Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary
    Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary Posts: 914 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Necroed thread, but ninetails is good for debuffs not luring (lvl 4 howl). I like the 89 cactopod from eden for luring the best, even more range than the eldergoth.
    >.<
  • Lythianaa - Dreamweaver
    Lythianaa - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,307 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    truekossy wrote: »
    Unless you unsummon it quickly, it will get killed in the process.

    Hm, but it will land the hit?
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  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Hm, but it will land the hit?

    Most of the time, yes. If you're on the third or fourth one and the area is too cluttered with clones, though, unless you put tough on it or wait for Wurlord to move it's most likely going to die before it gets the hit in.
  • Lythianaa - Dreamweaver
    Lythianaa - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,307 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    truekossy wrote: »
    Most of the time, yes. If you're on the third or fourth one and the area is too cluttered with clones, though, unless you put tough on it or wait for Wurlord to move it's most likely going to die before it gets the hit in.

    Hmmm, alright. I was thinking about what pet I could use to pull Wurlord whenever I go on a squad for TT 2's so that I wouldn't have to waste my meat on herc so much if it dies. I was thinking about ninetails, since it is fast, or Cactopod/Marksman, the ranged pullers.
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  • Solandri - Heavens Tear
    Solandri - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Ranged pet works much better on wurlord. Melee pets work better when pulling around corners when you can't see the pet/mob. When you see the skill fire, you know to unsummon. In between, use whatever you like. I also keep a level 20 tabby with zero loyalty around for suicide pulls and the listen rooms in Cube.
  • RedsRose - Lost City
    RedsRose - Lost City Posts: 12,354 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    No one noticed that this thread is from 2009? b:sweat
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  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    No one noticed that this thread is from 2009? b:sweat
    We noticed. We just didn't care since we managed to keep the discussion relevant.
    Ranged pet works much better on wurlord. Melee pets work better when pulling around corners when you can't see the pet/mob. When you see the skill fire, you know to unsummon.

    This. I pretty much always use my Eden cactus for Wurlord and it's yet to be killed on me when I don't do something stupid (like not bothering to pay any attention at all). Heck, even when I rush past wurlord I can set up the cactus to get aggro from a distance, then hit earthquake on genie while I run through and it'll survive.
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Ranged pet works much better on wurlord. Melee pets work better when pulling around corners when you can't see the pet/mob. When you see the skill fire, you know to unsummon. In between, use whatever you like. I also keep a level 20 tabby with zero loyalty around for suicide pulls and the listen rooms in Cube.

    When you can't see the pet / mob you can see it stop on the mini-map. Ranged pets can also be visible when they attack a mob around a corner.

    Please explain where a suicide pull exists?

    I thought they fixed the listen room so that pets didn't aggro the mob? I like the Scorpion for this if it works since it's so slow but still useful as a DPS pet.
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  • Vitenka - Dreamweaver
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver Posts: 4,125 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    If you have a skill turned on, you can also watch for the skillbar to grey out - and then unsummon immediately. You don't even need to wait for the skill to land.

    Another option is to watch the target's health bar.

    But yes - ranged pets make wonderful lurers.
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    If you have a skill turned on, you can also watch for the skillbar to grey out - and then unsummon immediately. You don't even need to wait for the skill to land.

    Another option is to watch the target's health bar.

    But yes - ranged pets make wonderful lurers.

    The motion in the mini map stops before the skill starts in a similar way letting you unsummon before you even see the attack. The skill option works good for debuff luring but debuff luring loses its value when you get high enough to take hits.
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