Clerics SPEND more on others, give them something in return

Zorish - Harshlands · May 2009

Its all in playstyle.
Mana regen is not an issue, is how the game is designed, YOU NEED MP CHARM, the game is made that way.
Grinding is hella cheap with apo pots, and they cost nothing to grind.
350k for a charm pays itself, I dont see the point in not buying.
The problem of OP is that hes not playing well the class and using the ingame economy.
Buying pots? Everyone knows pot are more expensive that charms.
In Fbs you dont need pots, mana regenerate itself faster.
Regeneration aura (aka bb, bubble) is a MUST for any decent cleric.
Rezzing and buffing everyone is NOT the job cleric, the job cleric is to keep tank alive, not even party, if DDs dont know how to do they job, let them die for being useless.
Unless youre buying fashion like crazy I dont see where does your coins problem come from

(well, pots if we read your post), the game itself provides enough money through grinding and rewards from quets.

Shoonhena - Harshlands · June 2009

About the full attack Clerics... I have an idea for them, just convert them to Wizards as that is all they are to me. If they are not going to do the job of a Cleric, why call them one?

As for the rest, it just amazes me how reading this it seems to boil down to people overall hate the idea of Clerics being rewarded in any way for all the time and money we spend for the benefit of others and without a reward. I think that is sad. Maybe they should just do away with us as we obviously are neither appreciated or liked. Then I'll go find a game with a better attitude toward people who sacrifice their time and money for the benefit of others. Sorry folks, it just gets depressing reading this.

MntMan - Lost City · June 2009

OK I'm guilty of not reading every page here, but I'll answer my thoughts on this. I have a level 65 cleric and I do think that our MP usage is pretty high and generally we get shafted and are an after thought by the devs. However I am sympathetic to other classes like barbs who have high repair bills. I think a lot of what is posted is by classes who don't really have an appreciation for what the other goes through. Kind of like the comment of barbs charms ticking because of crappy cleric heals, etc. Of course they never stopped to think that our mp charms tick with every heal as well. In any event just wanted to level the playing field here.

So here's my thoughts. 1 rep point per rez is crazy. It will get taken advantage of for sure. I supposed it wouldn't hurt to get a few exp and spirit points for every buff based on buff level. Like say 200 exp and 50 spirit for lvl 10 buff or something appropriate for your level. I mean that's not enough where someone is going to run around spam buffing to level, but it would be the equivalent of a mob kill.

To me though 3 main suggestions would help clerics in the areas this thread addresses.

1) Get rid of combat status when casting BB. Right there this addresses the problem of mana drain in TT squads. You could fire off a focus powder and with pots still maintain BB no problem, or if you use your charm it won't suck it dry as quickly.

2) change the charm tick rate to 25% or 50%. This would allow you to pot if you want to conserve your charm a bit like a tank can conserve hp charms with heals and pots. If you're of the belief that you get charms to burn them then this doesn't effect you at all. Let your charm get to 25% or 50% and let it tick away. Your call.

3) Make a lvl 10 extension of rez. The 3 main buff skills all have lvl 10 extensions that are AoE buff skills. Make a rez skill lvl 10 at level 59 or higher that you can learn to self rez. this will allow clerics to rez themself with the same benefits. Of course the issue here would be that when you die you have no mp left so there would have to be some kind of penalty. Perhaps you loose 1000 spirit points to use or something.

Just my thoughts. Troll and flame away. Cheers

Budika - Sanctuary · June 2009

OK I've played both characters... Some got this weird idea the the Dev's should reward a class for RP'ing that class?

My main as you can see is a Barb... So, here's the barb side our HP charm is there to keep up with the Spike Damage. If it's ticking on regular hits, it's being wasted and if spike damage happens after a tick EVERYONE dies.. So yes to the if my charms ticking I've got a crappy CLR.

If you didn't notice Gold Mana is 900k Gold hp is only 600k anyone see a difference same cost. Sure I think they need to bring out the platinum's 1.8 million MP 1.2 Million HP (maybe sell them for 6 gold each personally I think the CS is a bit overpriced especially when certain game mechanics require the items uses).

As to cost well I recommend you go find yourself some similar lvl Wood creatures and go grind some cash out of them you'll do it 2-4 times as fast as I can. I had a lvl 24 clr on the PW-MY server and every kill was 4 or less shots. On my Barb if it's weak I might kill it in 4 or 5 hits (that means I get hit 4-6 times). Our only healing ability is Sunder (I'm a tiger tank so it's lvl 9)

My brother is a 83 clr with most of his skills maxed.. I'm an 85 barb who's made 4 lvl 80+ genies, several 20-60's and still have 5 skills not done(using xp exclusively).

My average Repair bill with TT70,Legendary gear in a TT60 is 20-40k, TT70 is 50-110k, TT80 115-200k, TT90 135-195 (the high price is w/o herc except for 90 never done w/o herc).
Rebirth Order - Gamma (215-250k) Grinding after every justice quest is 45-80k. This doesn't include the fact that I require HP charm (350-400k) I never pay more then 400k for them!

As for bosses at lvl 50 they'd cost me around 40k repair and I'd get 35 xp 15 sp. LVL 60 up to a 65k repair bill. LVL 70 60k repair. LVL 80 (haven't done many bosses since most are trivial to me now probably down to 20k or so for the lvl 60's and below bosses).
FB's I always loose money on those! This includes 19,29 especially if the clr doesn't feel like tossing me 1 HoT (Heal over Time) Did a 39 with a low level inexperienced clr who I had to ask to heal me, then I had to explain which heal would be most effective for clearing trash.

As to the rezes I've NEVER asked for a rez when grinding... In groups killing bosses are the only time I've ever died. And on my alts they just go out and grind the xp.. At lvl 70+ if you don't have GA's and you die often it's better to wait for a clr rez even if you are one then to grind the 200+ mobs to = 1%

*Fixes:

I'd love to hear they reduced the cost of mana on your spells
I'd love to see your regen buff stack with apoth items
I'd love to see you get a once an hour self rez 100% xp...
I'd love to see you get a self mana recovery spell if they don't want to reduce the costs.

I don't believe your acts of kindness should be rewarded by the Game... rather by the grateful people to whom you help.

MntMan - Lost City · June 2009

I wasn't saying anyone should be rewarded for playing (i hate the term rolling. You're not rolling anything b:chuckle. It's not chance. You distribute points how you see fit. Sorry just a pet peeve) a cleric. I was only pointing out a couple suggestions on how I think the character could be improved and not make it more of a Cash Shop cow then other classes. Of course if your comments were more towards other posters then I see why.

I'm not looking for any special benefit or pat on the back for being a cleric. I just want to level the playing field and I think my suggestions would do that. I don't think they are obscene or unfair to other classes or would make clerics much more powerful. I just think it would enhance the playing experience for those who choose to play(roll....ahhhhhhh even i did it!!!!!) one.

A couple secondary comments:

1) If you are playing with a cleric and they aren't tossing you a HoT every now and again even on low fb runs then I agree. You've got a crappy cleric on your hands. Or if they don't know which heal to use. lol.

2) I definitely empathize with barb repair bills. I think our mp pots expense is high and the constant drain on charms with bb, etc. So your expenses to repair strikes a chord with me. I always try my hardest to keep a tanks charm from ticking provided they aren't just rushing in kamikaze style. Case an point on fb39 when people like to just rush in and stand next to exploding mobs. I mean certainly someone has to if they are tanking them, but no reason everyone needs to stand next to them. Tick away I say.

Well just my 2 cents

MntMan - Lost City · June 2009

My bad man. I thought that the bottom part with the single lines of fixes was a signature and I skipped right over it. lol.

I'd agree with some of them.. I don't think they need to reduce mp costs on spells. Don't want to make it too easy.

Thanks

Ljubica - Dreamweaver · June 2009

Clerics are NOT made only for healing!
That's general misunderstanding. If all clerics only need to help heal and ress all the time none would ever play a cleric. They can but they don't have to if they don't want to, u can make only attack / mage like cleric if u want for example. Further more I don't think they should get anything for helping people (it's your choice after all u don't need to help anyone).

Skills spirit and coins cost should be reduced tho or MP regen can be improved, that would make helping much easier.

This is the link to my post / poll I made about improvement of Clerics skill Celestian Guardian Seal

Ebonn - Heavens Tear · June 2009

I think there should be some XP bonus at lower levels to help Clerics level up. I have a Cleric alt and it is such slow leveling compared to other classes.

At higher levels, expecially 60+, Clerics are in such great demand the reward is in the popularity.

Budika - Sanctuary · June 2009

OK I guess I need to educate you and maybe others.

MntMan - Lost City "I wasn't saying anyone should be rewarded for playing (i hate the term rolling. You're not rolling anything"

RPG = Role Playing Game
RP = Role Play

Definition of Role http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/role.html or from wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role

Prescribed or expected behavior associated with a particular position or status in a group or organization. See also roles.

So it's not Roll as in rolling dice it's Role expected behavior for the class you chose, I hope that fixes your misconception.

I do admit there is the ability to create the semi useful Attack cleric.. you can make a regular one then reset stats later on when it's actually worth while (weaknesses covered by the gear). And remember if you chose attack cleric don't ever answer for a clr call to a group unless you've finally gotten your support skills maxed instead answer for DD (should be DPS) DD has been Direct Damage for years before the computer was invented. Meanwhile DPS damage per Second has been used online for MMO's for years before PW-I came out. But I adapt while still laughing about the incorrect terms.

MystiMonk - Sanctuary · June 2009

I don't agree with much of it as we picked the role and we are playing it most of the time we get easy runs through fbs untill we have to work.

Highestelf - Heavens Tear · June 2009

Hmmmm....
I'm thinking fb's are easy runs for "everyone" until they have to work!!

Im thinking u just wasted air with that statement!

It's the "work" that we are all talking about. not the easy parts!
Sure - BB is "Easy" - but fire yours up and lets see how expensive it is on YOUR mp charm and/or pots. Oh, Thats right, you are only lvl 50 and don't have that "expensive" skill yet.

Or, Better yet spam Ironheart on a weak tank, then after the run - tell me how much MP You burned to keep the tank alive, so he can run around afterwards, thinking how all powerful he is! LOL!!!
(Note: I said WEAK tank - you powerful, experienced tanks need not take offense!)

When I heal the tanks in my crew, I do my damnedest to keep his hp from dropping and ticking charm. So I have a tendency to cast excessively. Oh, oh - I probably just shed lite on another failing of mine to be critiqued.

MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

I don't agree with much of it as we picked the role and we are playing it most of the time we get easy runs through fbs untill we have to work.

StormHydra - Sanctuary · June 2009

Id say either, 1 spirit point. Or none at all.
This would be exploited so hard, it wouldnt even be funny. Especially with 250 coins.
Just cast 40 ironhearts on a friend and thats 10k.
400 iron hearts, 100k.
How long does it take to cast 400 iron hearts? its about 1 every two seconds so its 800 seconds. About 13 minutes?
With a mp charm, even a small 10k mp charm could probably keep that up and the cost of a 10k mp charm is negligable to the 100k made.
The max someone gains is like 100k per HOUR!
I think clerics should be kept the way they are.

MissEva - Dreamweaver · June 2009

I doubt youd have any of those suggestions implemented. But hows this?

When you res someone and they click the Ressurect button...a box pops up that asks if you want to donate to the cleric?

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear · June 2009

I thought you already got something when you help people.... You feel good about yourself. What else do you want?

So you want free stuff for helping YOUR party run YOUR quests? Why dont you ask for all your experience to be donated to the tank that is making it possible for you to level?

MystiMonk - Sanctuary · June 2009

Highestelf - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Hmmmm....
I'm thinking fb's are easy runs for "everyone" until they have to work!!

Im thinking u just wasted air with that statement!

It's the "work" that we are all talking about. not the easy parts!
Sure - BB is "Easy" - but fire yours up and lets see how expensive it is on YOUR mp charm and/or pots. Oh, Thats right, you are only lvl 50 and don't have that "expensive" skill yet.

Or, Better yet spam Ironheart on a weak tank, then after the run - tell me how much MP You burned to keep the tank alive, so he can run around afterwards, thinking how all powerful he is! LOL!!!
(Note: I said WEAK tank - you powerful, experienced tanks need not take offense!)

When I heal the tanks in my crew, I do my damnedest to keep his hp from dropping and ticking charm. So I have a tendency to cast excessively. Oh, oh - I probably just shed lite on another failing of mine to be critiqued.

What about the other way around and think way back when you where lvl 50 and how good it was to have the BM or Barb kill that boss for you.You can spam Ironheart all you want on them as they will have the boss dead before your man runs out.

I would say that BMs and Barb do just as much to lvl up their skill as much as we do.The advantage is they can pick one or two lines to go and don't have to buy every skill in the tree.

Drazo - Heavens Tear · June 2009

Temporary leadership of my guild. b:chuckle

vagrant0 · June 2009

MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

What about the other way around and think way back when you where lvl 50 and how good it was to have the BM or Barb kill that boss for you.You can spam Ironheart all you want on them as they will have the boss dead before your man runs out.

I would say that BMs and Barb do just as much to lvl up their skill as much as we do.The advantage is they can pick one or two lines to go and don't have to buy every skill in the tree.

Gotta learn every skill, sure, but that doesn't mean that it can't just sit at level 2 or 3 until you're level 60+ and actually start having to do any amount of grinding. Just because you have some skills that require level 10 in somthing to learn at 39, 46, 53 doesn't mean that you need to kill yourself trying to buy them. More than a few clerics have managed well enough with plumeshot, and IB maxed, with revive at level 5, with maybe a few buffs well into their 60s when they're actually needing to start getting other skills for TT runs. And by then, they can afford some of them.

As Barbs and BMs go, no, they don't need to learn all their skills, but do however need to learn and RAISE most of those they do learn in order to be capable. If a cleric is having problems leveling, they can simply group up and act as a healer... for a BM or Barb, if they aren't killing or tanking, they aren't worth ****. But at the same time, the barb and BM need to spend quite alot more coin for repairs, mp AND hp potions/charms. Clerics don't spend much on repair, and can usually get by with just mana potions/drugs when they're tight on money. Jade powers are nice like that.

MystiMonk - Sanctuary · June 2009

vagrant0 wrote: »

As Barbs and BMs go, no, they don't need to learn all their skills, but do however need to learn and RAISE most of those they do learn in order to be capable. If a cleric is having problems leveling, they can simply group up and act as a healer... for a BM or Barb, if they aren't killing or tanking, they aren't worth ****. But at the same time, the barb and BM need to spend quite alot more coin for repairs, mp AND hp potions/charms. Clerics don't spend much on repair, and can usually get by with just mana potions/drugs when they're tight on money. Jade powers are nice like that.

I thought I just said that.

Chrisssss - Sanctuary · June 2009

LOL I'm going to be bias and say Heck Yeah, but the truth is I believe every class has to spend a lot veno have to spend what 25Mil for Herics, BM and Barbs prob have to spend a lot on HP charms, Wiz I assume MP charms and Archers I guess HP and arrows. We are all used and have a certain job to full fill and like some ppl said in this thread "If you don't like it, then switch class". I personally like being a cleric because all I have to do is sit back and hit my F4 (Iron Heart) Key 90% of the time.

Chrisssss - Sanctuary · June 2009

MissEva - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I doubt youd have any of those suggestions implemented. But hows this?

When you res someone and they click the Ressurect button...a box pops up that asks if you want to donate to the cleric?

LOL I like that idea

vagrant0 · June 2009

MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

I thought I just said that.

You said it, but you're missing the point. Clerics may need to LEARN all or most of their skills, but they DO NOT need to RAISE all of their skills RIGHT AWAY.

BMs and Barbs may not need to LEARN all their skills, but they DO need to RAISE most of those they do learn to be capable.

Clerics can get by with only a handful of skills until level 60+ when they will start to actually be expected to have buffs/bubble. Until then, when most of those complaining are hitting problems, they can still be rather capable with little more than IB, Plumeshot, and some other minor skills to help them. The "huge and unfair costs of learning skills" are, for the most part, your choice to have. EVERY class has money and spirit problems with skills before level 70, regardless of build. The ONLY difference is that they are smart enough to realize that they don't need to max many of their skills until later.

Talk to a pure caster veno some time. Even though they only get 6 or 7 skills to max before 70, they only spend the coin and spirit on maxing the 3 or 4 that they are likely needing to use in order to be capable, or are the most efficient. Same for wizards, archers, bms, barbs. This cost of skills is something which everyone has to deal with, but you choose to make worse for yourself by assuming that you HAVE TO max all of them at lower levels.

So long as you have the buff (level 3 or so) people aren't going to kick you out of a group, call you a bad cleric, or likely even notice. For most, all that matters in a group is that the buff is there, and that you are healing the right person. Although the other heals can be nice at times, as was already mentioned by others, you'll be using IB or BB 99% of the time when in a group or solo (so why raise them?). With attack skills, Plume shot and cyclone are more than good enough to last you into your 70's and beyond.

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear · June 2009

Muah - Heavens Tear wrote: »

As for my opinion. you picked the class, if you don't like it make a new character. You know what a cleric is made for.

b:angry what are we made for?

Opaline - Dreamweaver · June 2009

If you don't think it's worth rezzing someone, then don't do it.

If someone asks me for rez, and I'm not close by. I will say, sorry I'm too far away, please find someone closer.
But if I'm feeling particularly charitable or bored that day, I may spend a few minutes flying to his location.

This is the same as asking for someone's help for anything.
Say you're in need of a tank for a boss that you can't solo.
You check your area and find a barb closeby.
If he agrees to come over and spend a few minutes tanking the boss for you shouldn't he get some sort of charity award too?

TIME is a valuable commodity in this game. Any time you spend that doesn't directly benefit you is an act of charity. And Clerics aren't the only class who spend time helping others.

_NecroX_ - Dreamweaver · June 2009

lool 250 coins per heal = everyone farming heals.. i mean cmon man 20 coins top but 250?AND 1 spirit?lulz..

so...lvl 10 heal very low channeling time,u can spamm all 3 heals constantly(1->2->3->1->2->3..) and not much healing with pure sp cler

Soo...it's prety much 8000x250 for 15 minutes of spammng

tanklin · June 2009

You could always go for a whole "Auto-Rez" type effect that a Cleric and use before dying, in case of death.

AliceDonut - Harshlands · June 2009

The simple and fair answer is: Clerics should not lose EXP upon death. A Cleric's benefit for a Cleric's sacrifice.

BTW - Clerics are NOT just a support class. If that were true, why have any offensive spells at all?

Clerics tend to be the weakest class ONLY because we devote our resources and SP towards healing/buffs spells instead of damage dealing nukes. Clerics have more spells available to them then SP to spend on them, so we have to pick & choose what to learn.

It always upsets me when I hear people say that Clerics are only for support and if we don't want to sit around and only heal people, then don't be a Cleric. When in fact, if we ditch the variety of healing spells available, and instead concentrate on our offensive skills, we are nearly the perfect class. damage dealer and self healer. But who does that hurt?

Other classes depend on Clerics for survival and Clerics depend on them for advancement. It's a 2 way street. But I don't think it's fair to penalize the Cleric for devoting his/her resources towards helping others instead of thinking only of themselves. We cannot rez ourselves and always have to take one for the team. So make it so we don't lose EXP upon death.

A Cleric's benefit for a Cleric's sacrifice.

AliceDonut

Zaw - Heavens Tear · June 2009

i agree about clerics getting rewards i know i have been resed alot of times before i wish i cud do more than just thank them--my cleric friends traveled from one side of the map to the other just to res me i think they should get more than 250 coins and a spirit point i think it should be like 500~700 coins per res and 5~30 Spirit points per res. and about 5~10 coins per heal and 1~5 Sprit per heal. For all those clerics out there ressing and healing us I thank you

u've been a great deal of help =D

And as AliceDonut has said they are NOT just for healing. Plume shot-deals A Hell load of DAM they by far have great ability. Anyone who says they are really only for support try make a cleric and see if they are just for support--they are a real good class in offensive and defensive. I think Clerics should get a random item for resing someone lik may be
35%-they Will get an item (such as a MP pot,HP pot,Chi stones etc.)
65%-they dont get anything (pardon me if that sounds a lil mean)

as I had said before
Thank you guys

Zaw out
-Leaves room-

Lunarius - Lost City · June 2009

Who says clerics have no rewards. Clerics and Barbarians are always the demand for FB. i.e. clerics gain reps faster than any other classes. I've seen a cleric who level up with minimal grinding. Just by FB from FB_Help channel, world chat, friends and guild request. And if u want monetary rewards, if u demand 10k to ress that stranger, i believe that stranger will also agree with the deal.

Kalibur - Lost City · June 2009

ohh you know wat

We should give Barbarians something in return to coz they take damn lots of damage on bosses for you(Repair aint cheap)

We should give Wizards something in return coz we deal awesome damage for you and mana aint cheap

We should give archer something in return coz awesome arrows is not easy to get

Ohhh how bout this You dontr like helping people in ressurecting or buffing play another class then

People choose to be cleric to help others coz they good Mages. Bad mages that dont like Res and buffing is Wizard.

Im a wizard and it sounds like you should be a wizard if you wana damage arcane but dont wana res for free

b:surrender < thats you

Analise - Dreamweaver · June 2009

This reminds me of FFXI where dying can negate several hours worth of grinding xp. I'm not sure if this is still the case now (I haven't played that game in years), but back then only a white mage with raise 3 could reduce the penalty by 90%.
So white mages were being offerred tons of gil (gold) to raise people.

I remember getting IMs from guild mates while I'm at work asking me to log on and raise them, lol. It was crazy.

I also remember that at higher levels, red mages became more wanted than white mages in parties, but red mages couldn't get raise 3. So white mages kind of went on strike and refused to raise people unless they were in the party, lol.

Those were the days...

Clerics SPEND more on others, give them something in return

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