Regarding boss luring
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Murugan - Lost City
Posts: 138 Arc User
OK so I realize that luring a boss into safe zone is a banable offense, but I'm wondering if that only applies to bosses with AOE that can kill other players.
The reason I'm asking this is because there are plenty of times where I'm doing a boss for guildmates (such as the Quillhog King) and pkers will come and ruin the party. Bosses such as the Quillhog King don't have AOE and cannot affect other players. Would it be alright to lure bosses like this, if the intention was just to avoid pkers?
The reason I'm asking this is because there are plenty of times where I'm doing a boss for guildmates (such as the Quillhog King) and pkers will come and ruin the party. Bosses such as the Quillhog King don't have AOE and cannot affect other players. Would it be alright to lure bosses like this, if the intention was just to avoid pkers?
Post edited by Murugan - Lost City on
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ANY boss luring into safe zone is banable even if it doesn't use AoE attacks.0
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the tank need to be outside the safe zone except for world boss near dwp since it spawn into safe zonegenesis (r.i.p.) ===> conqueror (r.i.p.) ===> zen (r.i.p.) ===> iam (r.i.p.) ===> guardianz (r.i.p.) ===> spectral ===> essence
starting to be a nice guild hoppers b:surrender
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Thank's for posting your responses, but I'd really appreciate an answer from a mod or admin. I want a definite answer for this. Players don't always know if something is a banable offense; for example, people used to always say that altering your text to blue or green was banable, but I ran into a GM, and he told me it wasn't.0
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if you want a GM response send a ticket?0
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Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »if you want a GM response send a ticket?
Tickets are for problems/suggestions. Also, nobody I know that's sent in a ticket has had a response as of yet, so I don't have much confidence in that.0 -
I sent a ticket few weeks back about a boss being lured at wellstone keep (I think that's the name). I got a response about a week later stating it was "definitely a bannable offense".0
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quillhog king = boss?
lol lure quillhog into safe zone who cares about quillhog b:laugh
if it's like world bosses or jewel etc u know the hard ones those ones u don't lure into towns but ,
i wouldn't really care about quillhog and other minibossesthanks to forsaken for this awesome sig b:victory[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Cholla is correct. If you read the older threads about this, you will see that the GM/Admin comments are always rooted in the griefing violation. If you lure a boss anywhere in order to have it kill someone who had an expectation they would not (or could not) be killed by other players, that is griefing. So, luring into safe zones is a violation if and only if the boss kills people other than you and your party (with a fuzzy line between intent to do that and actually succeeding). And, luring to non-safe-zones in order to kill blue-named players is a violation even though no safe zone was "compromised."
The shorthand version of the rule "No luring bosses to safe zones" is not what the GMs have said.0 -
Id say it is a bannable offence not only because you could get people killed in a safe zone, but for other people that need the quest but wait.. wheres the mob? *waits for a few hours for the boss to spawn* while some idiot is luring a boss through arch.
Or w/e you know what I mean.0 -
Bowlinbob - Lost City wrote: »Id say it is a bannable offence not only because you could get people killed in a safe zone, but for other people that need the quest but wait.. wheres the mob? *waits for a few hours for the boss to spawn* while some idiot is luring a boss through arch.
Or w/e you know what I mean.
There is lots of empty space in the Tusk Town safe area, it should not be a real risk of accidental PK by environment in that safe zone.
And, yes, if you take it to the extreme that you are wasting other people's time, you open up the griefing possibility again. Maybe leave a note at his usual location... Quilhog King is out - back in 5 minutes.0 -
I belive this is an old issue, I love when its talked about though. Somone allways comes in to ask if lureing a boss or mob to a safe zone so they don't get pk'd is fair play, But.... they fail to add not only have they anoyed an entire server which prevents them from standing out side a safe zone for more then 5 minute, they are asking is it ok to "lure a world boss to safe zone to make it easier for us to kill".
It's funny how the same people who ask already know the answer and have been caught afk with a world boss that does not hit ranged players with attacks "only debuffs thier max hp". You normally can find these same players hiding in most safe zones next to a mob or two and shooting them with some "wicked sweet" bound weapon adorned with shards ment for another class and world shouting how cool they are.
So... at the end of the day, try talking less trash and maybe you too could stand out side with a world boss for more then 5 minutes and if all els fails you still have your 3 mob's just outside safe zone and some day we will all be lvled caped and pay backs a mother!!0 -
People like to brag about being in a pk server or being white named in a pve server yet try to bring bosses to safe zones so they don't get pked during the fight. How ironic.Main characters
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Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »People like to brag about being in a pk server or being white named in a pve server yet try to bring bosses to safe zones so they don't get pked during the fight. How ironic.
Awww... you pointed out the truth that most people are hypocrites.
There is always truth in the words that no one wants to hear......Position: Professional Forum Troll
Position Details: Be able to incite people to flames and perform miracles such as telling people what's right and what's wrong. Be able to dish out flames to other people so fire extinguishers are needed to put out the flames. Most of all, giving others a piece of reality.
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World Boss? Did Quillhog King get a promotion when I wasn't looking?
I guess the question is whether by luring Quillhog into Tusk Town you have griefed the PKer who otherwise could have killed off one of your party members and forced you all to do the job over again. As much fun as you have denied that PKer, I gotta believe the kind of fuzzy line between PK fun and griefing that was articulated during the Oracle Bonanza fiasco would apply and you would get a pass for having denied someone the opportunity to grief you.0 -
Yes, it is bannable.
TOS:
"Without limiting the foregoing, in addition to the User Content rules set forth in Section 10 above, you agree not to take any of the following actions:...
(k) Cheat or utilize unauthorized exploits in connection with the Games or the Service;
(l) Using or exploiting any bugs, errors, or design flaws to obtain unauthorized access to the Service or to gain an unfair advantage over other players,
"(n) Take any action that disrupts the Service or that negatively affects or may prohibit other users from enjoying the Website, the Games or any other aspect of the Service."
--> This I KNOW people could argue these and some may be up for interpretation, but these could be applicable.
** I think is issue is not so much bringing it into the safety zone, I think that it is more bringing it into the safety zone and having it AFFECT others.**[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!
"Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous0 -
Seems pretty simple to me - why risk being banned at all?0
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RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »Yes, it is bannable.
TOS:
"Without limiting the foregoing, in addition to the User Content rules set forth in Section 10 above, you agree not to take any of the following actions:...
(k) Cheat or utilize unauthorized exploits in connection with the Games or the Service;
(l) Using or exploiting any bugs, errors, or design flaws to obtain unauthorized access to the Service or to gain an unfair advantage over other players,
"(n) Take any action that disrupts the Service or that negatively affects or may prohibit other users from enjoying the Website, the Games or any other aspect of the Service."
--> This I KNOW people could argue these and some may be up for interpretation, but these could be applicable.
** I think is issue is not so much bringing it into the safety zone, I think that it is more bringing it into the safety zone and having it AFFECT others.**
OK uhm what?!!
You just posted rules that actually prove its NOT a bannable offence but your opening statement is "yes its bannable".
The "luring bosses" rule is just when you lure a bos that negatively affect other players in the safe zone, like AOE damage or debuffs. Quilhog does NOT aoe or anything like that, the guy simply wants to get his quest done witout some opportunistic pk'er killing him while hes fighting a boss. IN FACT I'd rather vote to ban pk'ers killing ppl while they do bosses but thats what u get on the pvp server I guess.
I really think GM's are loving all this fear they spread around by never writing out a proper description of what gets you banned and what not. All these "zomg can I get banned for this or that" threads could have been avoided if they just updated the TOS a bit.0 -
Luring ANY monster into a safezone could be seen as an offense using the rules cause it is using a bug, flaw, exploit. However having a at level nonunique monster chase you into town cause you are running in going OMG OMG OMG! (which I have done) is not usually frowned on cause the impact to other players is small. It runs in and runs out.
Luring a unique monster (like QK) is different for a few reasons. First it is a unique and is needed for quests. People are missing out on the spawn cause you are holding it hostage and luring it somewhere. You could also be affecting other players by having them die in a place marked as safe (AOE issue this one is pretty much GM confirmed).
Now the PvP servers have an additional issue in that you are luring a monster with the intent to prevent others from PKing you in a place you knew was PK and therefore using a bug, flaw, exploit to ruin someone elses enjoyment of the game. ON THE OTHER HAND thier constant PKing of you could be seen as the same but likly only if it was the same person or faction constantly doing it. Otherwise you are just unfortunate that you get wailed on while trying to do that quest.0 -
Smexxyfox - Heavens Tear wrote: »OK uhm what?!!
You just posted rules that actually prove its NOT a bannable offence but your opening statement is "yes its bannable".
The "luring bosses" rule is just when you lure a bos that negatively affect other players in the safe zone, like AOE damage or debuffs. Quilhog does NOT aoe or anything like that, the guy simply wants to get his quest done witout some opportunistic pk'er killing him while hes fighting a boss. IN FACT I'd rather vote to ban pk'ers killing ppl while they do bosses but thats what u get on the pvp server I guess.
I really think GM's are loving all this fear they spread around by never writing out a proper description of what gets you banned and what not. All these "zomg can I get banned for this or that" threads could have been avoided if they just updated the TOS a bit.
No it did not prove that it is NOT a bannable offense....this is in general since some people will think differently about it.
I was responding to the OP's question and gave the information that was appropriate.
Do I think that Quill is a threat...lmao NO!!
But the overall question of the post was about luring a boss into the safe zone. The example provided just happened to be Quill.
OP said this: "OK so I realize that luring a boss into safe zone is a banable offense, but I'm wondering if that only applies to bosses with AOE that can kill other players."
The answer to this question is NO! It applies to all. Like Foulcault stated (which I agree), "First it is a unique and is needed for quests. People are missing out on the spawn cause you are holding it hostage and luring it somewhere. You could also be affecting other players by having them die in a place marked as safe (AOE issue this one is pretty much GM confirmed)." Which I can agree with.
And after all I did say this:RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »--> This I KNOW people could argue these and some may be up for interpretation, but these could be applicable.
** PS --> There is only fear is you think you are or may be doing something wrong or against the TOS. However, I do think that maybe the TOS could be updated to reflect some of the ambiguity within its context. Especially since so many people can and do interpret the overall writing differently.**[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!
"Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous0 -
I thoroughly enjoyed all the posts about "holding a boss hostage" and "interfering with others gameplay because they need the boss".
Quillhog King is a 30 second respawn. OMG someone may have to wait.
If you want to take the TOS at a strict interpretation, PKing someone while they are fighting a boss would be bannable. They make no distinction for PvP servers and this sort of behavior.0 -
Here is the thing, your agrument that somone is losing out on the spawn is nosnense cos I can go lure a boss to anywhere I want then, as long as its not a safe zone? It will be 1000x harder to find it then, which is much worse than luring it to a safe zone where the whole world can see it and the gaurds might kill it instantly.
I'm no trying to start a flame war here and all that nonsense, I'm just saying the viewpoint of "i dont like something therefore it should be banable" is just plain wrong. What you or I or the next guy like or dont like is as far apart as.. something far. The criteria for "right" and "wrong" is not decided by a GM/me/you/anyone it supposed to be decided by the game rules placed there by the programmers. If the game has a fault in its rules its publicly listed as a bug and in that case a GM can step in and say "look buddy we listed this issue on the forum and TOS, *ban*"
Unfortunately the correct way of doing things left the building long ago and was replaced by: *BANHAMMER!!!*
We don't have any proper "bug list" and the TOS is crazy vague, everythime we ask for clarification we're shot down by the powers that be. Annoys me 10x more than getting killed in a safe zone.0 -
Daerys - Sanctuary wrote: »I thoroughly enjoyed all the posts about "holding a boss hostage" and "interfering with others gameplay because they need the boss".
Quillhog King is a 30 second respawn. OMG someone may have to wait.
If you want to take the TOS at a strict interpretation, PKing someone while they are fighting a boss would be bannable. They make no distinction for PvP servers and this sort of behavior.
I am speaking on how it could be perceived as a bannable offense. I'm not talking just about QK but all unique spawns regardless of thier respawn timing. There's more to it then that as well on how it couldbe abused but lets not lay down an entire plan for griefers.0 -
Smexxyfox - Heavens Tear wrote: »We don't have any proper "bug list" and the TOS is crazy vague, everythime we ask for clarification we're shot down by the powers that be. Annoys me 10x more than getting killed in a safe zone.
I agree with you! There are too many inconsistencies with a lot of what the "rules" are. I know some people who have been banned for reasons that I think are ridiculous. And others who have never been banned for things that are SO obviously wrong.
*sigh* Oh well....nothing much any of us can do about it. b:surrender[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!
"Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous0 -
Daerys - Sanctuary wrote: »I thoroughly enjoyed all the posts about "holding a boss hostage" and "interfering with others gameplay because they need the boss".
Quillhog King is a 30 second respawn. OMG someone may have to wait.
If you want to take the TOS at a strict interpretation, PKing someone while they are fighting a boss would be bannable. They make no distinction for PvP servers and this sort of behavior.
ok doesnt the boss only respawn AFTER someone kills it?...
30 seconds could easily turn into a few hours if the person luring it gets bored and just has it following him for hours on end.
some people are so dense..0 -
Wow look at all these long responses analyzing the TOS and ****.
The answer is that you can't get banned for luring the boss to kill it. Luring for the purpose of griefing is bannable.0 -
Smexxyfox - Heavens Tear wrote: »Here is the thing, your agrument that somone is losing out on the spawn is nosnense cos I can go lure a boss to anywhere I want then, as long as its not a safe zone? It will be 1000x harder to find it then, which is much worse than luring it to a safe zone where the whole world can see it and the gaurds might kill it instantly.
OK sorry if I didn't clarify this I think both are bannable hence the hostage issue. Luring it to safezone is bad but so is luring it and holding it somewhere.Smexxyfox - Heavens Tear wrote: »I'm no trying to start a flame war here and all that nonsense, I'm just saying the viewpoint of "i dont like something therefore it should be banable" is just plain wrong. What you or I or the next guy like or dont like is as far apart as.. something far. The criteria for "right" and "wrong" is not decided by a GM/me/you/anyone it supposed to be decided by the game rules placed there by the programmers. If the game has a fault in its rules its publicly listed as a bug and in that case a GM can step in and say "look buddy we listed this issue on the forum and TOS, *ban*"
Unfortunately the correct way of doing things left the building long ago and was replaced by: *BANHAMMER!!!*
GMs job is to ban players for inproper behavior. Yes they are loose on it and for good reason. Perfect example is valentines day event and Jewelscan. If you don't want to start a flame war and want cold, hard facts call a GM in here and let them wiegh in on it. As far as asking players you get opinions and some based off what they think the TOS means. Me personally I'm reading this as a person reading the TOS with ban hammer / rules **** mind and not my personal belief.Smexxyfox - Heavens Tear wrote: »We don't have any proper "bug list" and the TOS is crazy vague, everythime we ask for clarification we're shot down by the powers that be. Annoys me 10x more than getting killed in a safe zone.
My opinion agreed...but they likly wait till it is heavily abused. Again Valentines day was a good example. They waited till it was crazy out of hand before ban hammering the jewelscan lurers. In a normal situation that would have gone sans ban hammer had it not been ruining an event.0 -
Foulcault - Heavens Tear wrote: »My opinion agreed...but they likly wait till it is heavily abused. Again Valentines day was a good example. They waited till it was crazy out of hand before ban hammering the jewelscan lurers. In a normal situation that would have gone sans ban hammer had it not been ruining an event. Agree that had it not been an event it prob would have been as you say...maybe.
OK...I am not going to lie here...I thought this was hilarious. It was bad enough all the guys were getting AOE'd to death while all of us ladies watched, but luring Jewel to the scene b:chuckle
A pain in the rear but still EPIC!! LOL[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!
"Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous0 -
The only thing going on in this thread is rules lawyering when the only people who enforce the rules is the GMs based on their judgement calls at the time based on the circumstances and context.
The GMs might ban someone for kiting a boss to an area where the party cannot get PKed, or they might not.
The GMs might ban someone for kiting a boss around the world, or they might not.
I will say this though: just because someone is on a PvP server does not make it hypocritical for them to kite a boss to an area they cannot be PKed while they kill the boss. Reason being that stating doing that is hypocritical assumes that they run around ganking players while they are trying to kill bosses, or other mobs.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
the shortest of shorthand would be-and this is from mods/GMs i have talked to about this-is :no pulling the boss/miniboss anywhere. kill it where it is. period. no pulling jewel anywhere, no pulling chin, hero's tomb bosses, or any others...there is no reason to do so, other than griefing of others by sick, little minds who think thats funny.Bobncut - Sanctuary wrote: »Cholla is correct. If you read the older threads about this, you will see that the GM/Admin comments are always rooted in the griefing violation. If you lure a boss anywhere in order to have it kill someone who had an expectation they would not (or could not) be killed by other players, that is griefing. So, luring into safe zones is a violation if and only if the boss kills people other than you and your party (with a fuzzy line between intent to do that and actually succeeding). And, luring to non-safe-zones in order to kill blue-named players is a violation even though no safe zone was "compromised."
The shorthand version of the rule "No luring bosses to safe zones" is not what the GMs have said.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Bowlinbob - Lost City wrote: »ok doesnt the boss only respawn AFTER someone kills it?...
30 seconds could easily turn into a few hours if the person luring it gets bored and just has it following him for hours on end.
some people are so dense..
Read OP. This isn't about luring bosses for hours on end, this is about luring a boss 30 feet to SZ to avoid getting pked. It does not take hours to kill the Quillhog King; I can solo it in less than 5 minutes.
I'll just write about the incident that made me contemplate luring it into SZ; maybe it will clarify things:
I was soloing the Quillhog King for a guildmate of mine. I was also on vent, so I wasn't really paying attention to the chat window or other pkers. I noticed my HP started dropping a lot faster than it should've been, so I used the genie skill Tree of Protection, at which point I noticed my guildmate was dead and was telling that Phlame (an 8x archer) was attacking me and that I should run. Upon failing to kill me while I was holding the boss's aggro, Phlame apparently assumed I was a much higher level and ran away, however she waited in SZ and I didn't want to risk her coming back to try again.
This is just one of several occurrences of people trying to PK my party (or even other parties) while fighting this boss. It is a very weak boss that can be killed very quickly and has no AOE. Luring it to safe zone will not affect other players in any way whatsoever. The reason I generalized a bit more in the OP was because I wanted to also find out if this would be acceptable for all bosses without AOE.FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »
the shortest of shorthand would be-and this is from mods/GMs i have talked to about this-is :no pulling the boss/miniboss anywhere. kill it where it is. period. no pulling jewel anywhere, no pulling chin, hero's tomb bosses, or any others...there is no reason to do so, other than griefing of others by sick, little minds who think thats funny.
Read OP -_-0
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