God and Religion: a PWI search for truth.

I don't believe in any sort of higher power. I was raised by a christian family and I have strong issues about christianity. It seems the way that they get people to worship their belief is by force. If you dont believe you go to hell, pretty much is what ive gathered from all christians.

Any religion that says if you dont believe what we believe, something bad will happen, is wrong in my opinion. Because it tricks people into believing things they dont really wanna believe based on the concequences if they didn't believe.

I believe when you die, it's like umm.. before you were born. Nothing. Not good not bad, just nothing.

Im sure this forum will turn into a flame war soon enough.

How do we know there is no such thing as nothing, how do we test such a theory? And please dont try convert me, thats another thing I have against religions. They can't resist to try to prove me wrong.

Im just stating what I believe, not trying to bash anyones beliefs.


And about the "no such thing as nothing" again, I don't know how to describe what you were be4 you were born, you didnt exist, to me that = you were nothing

Austin_Power - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Chill out, I'm not some inquisitional Catholic ready to pull your fingernails out for not believing.

lol sorry, in my past experiences with these sort of topics thats how it always ends. People poking and finding flaws in others beliefs.

The truth is no one knows for sure what will happen when we die, or how life started.

I find people funny that think they know all the answers and that everybody that doesnt believe what they do is wrong. (again, not pointing fingers at you, just putting that in this post before other people start calling people names)

Also, I don't believe everything I read. In my opinion there is such a thing as nothing. As for the comment about be existing in the sense of a word before I was born, I guess i meant my "conciousness" didnt exist. My "soul" didn't exist.

Austin_Power - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Ah, I see. Well, that's what I was asking. What do you THINK will happen when we die.

I THINK "nothing" will happen b:chuckle

(getting dizzy from going around in a circle)b:bye

I'd like to carry on with your discussion, but I'm too tired now ... b:surrender

So I simply post my beliefs here (how boring).

First of all, the reason for my belief is very irrational, and I fear that there is nothing like an inner logic, either. I do not believe in creation, I don't think that there is a necessity for me to be, I'm simply an accident, and this contains the possibility of not existing at all. This again is not really a reason for depression, but it offers the chance of seeing life as the ultimate opportunity, a chance you have (not a gift, this would imply somebody who or which gave it to you) - and I wish I could remember this not that rarely b:surrender .
On the other hand, for me personally (!) there is an absolutely irrational necessitiy for a god or at least something deity-like to exist, as the last border between what is and nothing (although - of course - I cannot imagine not to be, because if I have done something in life it is this). For example ... there is a person I really love, and I love most (who believes in a god), and I cannot bear to know that this person will simply vanish, not only physically, and ... now, this is irrational. This is only based on an emotion, and there is nothing logic about it, but for me expecting this person to vanish, not to exist, would mean not to love the person. Love, for me, is the very reason of "god".
I know that the content of the second-last sentence could imply that I think those who do not belive in a "god" or a similar entity do not really love xy - this is why I pronounce that this is only my personal opinion and my personal feelings, and have no impact on anyone else.

So this god is a consequence of love, the last being, being itself, an escape from eternal nothing.
If you remove everything you're uncertain about, all you can know is that something has to exist. For me, this is god.

Why I think some inner logic is missing ... if you take the Bible, God has been there from the very beginning and created the world, and he will end it. I do not believe in this, however: he/she/it has a certain role and acts in a certain way.
In my belief, there is the universe, and this "god" has no real influence on it (which also could be seen as a quite simple way to evade Theodizee-questions), and I don't see that more or less "complex", but somehow (in a strange way, though) logic as there is in most religions.
Also, morals are not really made by this god or base on them.

Institutional religions? I do not like many of them, but I won't mention it here, because maybe somebody might get it wrong.
...but: why does a certain church need more that 2000 years to get just a bit closer from being miles away to the demands of the person it claims to be based on?

dachs wrote: »

So this god is a consequence of love, the last being, being itself, an escape from eternal nothing.
If you remove everything you're uncertain about, all you can know is that something has to exist. For me, this is god.

I like that. It makes a tidy kind of sense, and is a pretty sentiment as well.

For my own beliefs... I was raised Roman Catholic, and was a very Good Catholic School Girl (12 years of it, whee!), up through my early 20's. I'd been going through some spiritual experiences since my late teens though, and these strengthened when I neared my mid-20's. I eventually came to understand that Catholic Doctrine didn't, and couldn't, suit me or my beliefs and experiences any longer.

I made my own connections with the Divine, and came to understand that there are many ways it works in the world. And there isn't just one spiritual force at work in the world, but I'm not going to delve into that here.

I've come to believe that all the organized religions of the world hold truth to them - each is a localized interpretation for how people of different cultures have come to understand the Divine and Spiritual at work in the world. For some, this is One God, possibly with many aspects, or maybe not. For others, it is many gods, each covering an aspect of the other culture's one god. There are differences in name and number, and ways of worship, and guidelines to live by. These different interpretations do not negate each other, rather, we can learn from all of them. They are just different ways of understanding the divine spirit(s) at work in our world, viewed through the lenses of varried cultures and histories.

I've settled into a somewhat Deist belief system, and am an Animist at this point. I believe there was some kind of creative force at work at one point, that sometimes does a little bit now and then. But most of the actions happening in the world in a spiritual sense are coming from the multitude of spirits (whether you call them dieties, nature sprites, or something else). While I'm not going to say that "that rock there" has a soul, you can present me with certain types of stones and I can tell you about the spiritual energy they contain. Whether it's Soul or Sentience or just an unfatomable Something, in some cases it is there. The same can be said for most of nature, not just for people.

As for what happens to us after death, I cannot say for certain. And it's different for different people, I believe. Not just if you were Good or Bad and where you go after that, but some people live more times than others. Some seem to return to something like a lifestream, where consciousness might disappear. Others migh maintain a physical-like spiritual form on another plane (or this one) while awaiting their next rebirth. Usually people aren't aware of this between-time or of their prior lives. Some may never be reborn, some go through lives until they've accomplished something their soul wishes to, and then rests at peace until become restless again.

Anyway, that's just my personal take on things from my own experiences. Your own discoveries may be different, and none of us will really, truly know until we're past this life. And then we won't be typing here XD

No, I don't believe in any sort of higher-power. My parents seem to border on Christianity, seeing as how they both came from devout grandparents, but they've never really tried to teach me anything about it (aside from making me read the Bible) and my sister is Christian, though she is lax on many beliefs.

My views on religion are mixed. I'll respect your decision to follow beliefs/morals, but generally I look down upon those who take it to the extreme and force it on others.

Zephyrx - Lost City wrote: »

Freedom is also limited just like imprisonment. So people would say prison is actually freedom because it is through prison that they become free of all the worries of the society. Some people say freedom is a prison, bounded to live within a world where you think you can do everything (yup... that's Earth). But you are always limited by something... (education, background, personality, talent, skill, etc...)

So since freedom is prison, prison's seems like freedom to us... (read my words carefully). Freedom IS Prison. Prison SEEMS LIKE freedom. The reality is only prison.

We are caged in Earth, those that try to defy it must be extremely out there (astronauts)... But it takes so much effort to escape this prison (Earth) that it is not worth it in most cases....

Well God? He really doesn't give a dam about us. We can rot for all he cares on Earth... What God really cares about is not the people living in Earth doing all kinds of crazy stuff in Prison. Personally, I think God wants something greater than what this "prison" offers us. But of course, this prison doesn't want that.... It wants to keep all of us nice and tuck under it. There is no escape.... But God (dam... that brilliant mind) decided to do something by introducing his teachings on this prison.

Though for me, freedom is the ability to go beyond the prison and have a want to get out.... Just GTFO out of this place. Whether it be by anger, passion, faith, justice, mission, etc... whatever crazy idea you have. If you wanna get out, you have freedom.... (Remember I am talking about true freedom, not the prison = freedom thing.. Yea, this might make your brain explode but w/e... I don't care lol)

Because we can only seek freedom, freedom never truly comes to us. But by seeking freedom, we impose a message through our actions to God. That is the freedom we know today....(Not some bull**** called the Declaration of Independence).

And oh yea, God isn't the guard. God is the creator of the Prison.... And he made it for a reason... Can you find out what it is? b:chuckle.

How would it exactly look like if he start to give a dam? another Deluge? or should he brainwash/lobotomy everyone on planet (especially you) so that they would wake up next day and start create paradise, though that would abolish a concept of "free will" from the planet?

What else - kill all the people because they kill the planet? Just a question - what would the planet worth without humans? who'd give it any kind of value? In outer space there are many beautiful colored planets though lifeless but still nice to look at. Why bother to create Earth without humans?

Anger? well basically it's like this- a man is told to use toilet properly. but no he craps on floor, pisses into bath gets dirty stinky and then blames God for inactivity. Another person comes into that fully crapped toiled and also gets dirty all over says ah what the...and craps on the floor even more. and also curses god for the stink, for the mess, diseases it might cause...
What to do? Should God come forth and tell- look it's your fault you did it to yourself? They know that already who did it. Should he punish them? Well that's pretty much taken care of is it not? Create better human? Well some people out there when they choose to use toilet properly don't get ****ty. So it's not about human design either. It comes down to human choices. crapping on the floor is wrong. crapping into the toilet bowl is right. there's no relative truth here. that in certain circumstances it's better the get ****ty.
cause it'll stink just the same. And what's the point of winning the argument over relativity of truth if it does not stop the stink? Funny thing is in real world there are lot of people who, allegorically speaking, like to argue that sh*t is better than cleanness and are good at winning these arguments. But still complain about the stink.

I think If God exists he has every right to bear the title as the most insulted cursed etc entity in the universe. A man who gets slapped could take offense and hit back. But what if the entity in question is too intelligent to solve matters with brutal force. But here's a hint - If a dog bites his feeder, feeding might stop because feeder might not particularly enjoy to get bitten again. And there's no need to have voice of thunder "you bit me"- dog knows that he did.

And we both know you are mistaken if you think outer space has freedom. there are only few more things on the planet that would depend more on earth than a spaceship. Spaceships have almost constant radio link to the earth. Earth Mission control literally controls their ever step. Every time they push any kind of button they have to voice it to earth what they are about to do. Their vitals are on screen 24/7 for earth physician to survey. List could go on and on.
Of course the sickest part is that other than shuttle- space rockets are de facto ICBM's without a warhead, developed for rather different goal in mind.
And shuttles too have had plenty of taking up military satellite missions.

Well anyway the conversation gets rather interesting. Looking forward to next post. Hopefully in same logical reasoning manner- it's the only way not to get the thread closed prematurely

Drmelvin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

God doesnt exist, I will believe this until he personally comes and slaps me in the face with a big inflatable hammer that he won at a theme park, As for finding god in prison what a load of ****? You have to go against the ways which god apprantly imposed to find him in a cell? Come on now people think about it

Showing Himself to the people still would not prove he exists would it? So why bother if it's ineffective?

Tl;dr
All I need to say is: I am God. Nice to meet you. :]