Fac?

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Comments

  • Samalia - Sanctuary
    Samalia - Sanctuary Posts: 45 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Zorish - Harshlands wrote: »
    Cleric can save you XP. If you dont lvl rez NO ONE will want you in their squad.
    VIT is neccessary for TW, are very important part in a game.

    If you go DDing and doing damage whos gonna heal and buff ppl?

    OFC you can help sleeping ppl and stuffs, but yet

    Your damage being vit build with Grief HH70 2064-2470

    Your damage being pure mag build (which is not fac, same weapon) 2751-3293

    Vit build has at 71 lvl, 105 vit, which means 1050 HP more. Even with tonnns of shard and refining you cant get as much hp as that.

    Plus you wont kill mobs THAT faster, they will reach you.

    And fac build is only attack, so youre not allowed to use heals. If you use them then youre not anymore a fac, just a pure magic build...

    wrong! we wont want to be in their squad.

    vit necessary for tw? wrong! clerics are going to be killed in 2 hits without plume shell up, if you have plume shell up the vit makes no difference, if you dont have plume shell up it makes no difference. IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE

    if i go dding and dealing damage? dding means dealing damage/ damage dealing

    umm.. im lv 71 and my magic attack is 4700-5400 buffed.. not sure what ur doing but yeah, and griefs light? dont make me laugh.
  • Nelae - Heavens Tear
    Nelae - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,490 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Samalia - Sanctuary wrote: »
    its pretty obvious that cleric vs cleric, the fac will almost always win.

    I am pretty sure, that's not the case.
    90% will be luck, if one lags more other will surely win.
    b:dirty
  • Forp - Heavens Tear
    Forp - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,445 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    6k hp is going to die to its own class with 2k hp?

    makes sense, ya. that 200-300 damage difference is a life-changing factor.
  • Azazel - Dreamweaver
    Azazel - Dreamweaver Posts: 203 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    hm...interesting, you have 400vit? wow, you must deal very insane damage there D:
  • Forp - Heavens Tear
    Forp - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,445 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    it was an example. in pvp, hp is the strongest weapon.

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=64835d66ed0a5f32

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=c13f2458deda72b5

    who's going to win in an equal fight? it doesn't take some kind of genius to figure it out.
  • Azazel - Dreamweaver
    Azazel - Dreamweaver Posts: 203 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Your example way too far from reality and distort it to a great extent.

    The different in HP between a vit/hybrid and a pure mag is about 1 plume shot away. You can't one hitted a cleric with pure mag (maybe with spark) with equipment on.

    Given the same equipment, your cleric have ~3k8 in hp when I have 2k5, with 2k5 hp, even if he doesn't have plume shell on, you have to 2 hit him in order to take him down. And if he has plume shell on....hm...maybe you have to wait for 20 sec =/

    Next is skill, not sure if you have these 2 skills:
    -Razor lvl10
    -Chromatic lvl8

    Razor is like a wieldthunder - physical version, I guarantee that it deal enough damage to take you down to 1/3 bar even with 3k8, without debuff and plume shell.
    Chromatic seal, this skills is not just for a FAC, it's for all clerics and I know you would level this, but to wat level I'm not sure, but the different between a lvl8 chromatic seal and a lvl 5 chromatic seal decide the outcome.

    It's all come down to skill when a cleric vs a cleric, ~1k hp can help you last longer for 1 hit, but not asure that you can win if you was sleeped and without plume shell on while the other spamming IH, spark, razor, plume =(
  • RedsRose - Lost City
    RedsRose - Lost City Posts: 12,354 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Azazel - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Hybrid/full vit cleric can tank better than barb vs magic boss, but you can't be best DDer and best tanker as 1 so meh =( Even so I can still tank magic bosses in wraith ploy quest (raged wraith chief and yan the traitor).

    True...but I am a hybrid b:cute And I can assure you that I hit for a fantastic amount! Additionally, my vit is not higher then 60 (the rest comes from shards), therefore my mag attack does not suffer.
    Samalia - Sanctuary wrote: »
    wrong! we wont want to be in their squad.

    vit necessary for tw? wrong! clerics are going to be killed in 2 hits without plume shell up, if you have plume shell up the vit makes no difference, if you dont have plume shell up it makes no difference. IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE

    LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.....*sigh* It made me laugh! b:chuckle
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!

    "Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
    Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous
  • Forp - Heavens Tear
    Forp - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,445 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    who uses razor feather/plume shot if the other has plume shell on? :S

    it's called level 10 cyclone, wield thunder, thunderball, and level 8 tempest. they deal more damage, btw.

    lolskill
  • Azazel - Dreamweaver
    Azazel - Dreamweaver Posts: 203 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    uh...maybe you didn't try, or you did try on a lower lvl cleric, not sure.
    Level 8 temptest take me down to 4/7, at most, without using TT70 (they have exceptional high magic def). IF you are so naive to think that your metal spell combo can bring down another cleric, something is wrong with your brain seriously. Do notice that all your apell above get reduce by 70% on an arcane user, and these arcane user know how to spam IH.

    Razor feather/plume shot: I never said use it when plume shell on, look above, without plume shelll, it meant your plume shell is in cooldown 10sec, you are sleeping peacefully, or you out of chi after trying to temptest 1hit me, which is uh....impossible.
  • Wrathe - Harshlands
    Wrathe - Harshlands Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Your damage being vit build with Grief HH70 2064-2470

    Your damage being pure mag build (which is not fac, same weapon) 2751-3293


    Hmmm, for players that try to acheive maximum damage output, an almost 50% increase in damage is a VERY SIGNIFICANT boost. That in itself is more than enough reason to make a pure magic build cleric. And if you are trying to max your damage, you obviously have a very different goal than a support cleric... DPSing. Support clerics just want to be loved. DPS Clerics want to kill people, and can be very effective at it if played right.

    I am building a DPS cleric, leveling IH and Rez slowly as I go along, and don't feel that I am sacrificing any damage to do so. I still prioritize enough SP to get my dps skills when they pop up. And I am loving it. Seeing people QQ when they get ganked hard by a class they write off as a buffbot/healbot makes it all worth it. b:dirty
  • Forp - Heavens Tear
    Forp - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,445 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    oh wait, my metal skills that do a significant amount of more damage than weak plumeshot and moderate razor feather can't kill you? makes perfect sense. thank you for clearing this up for me.

    dreamweaver sounds promising. lol.
  • Azazel - Dreamweaver
    Azazel - Dreamweaver Posts: 203 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    hm, seem like you are a blockhead 1

    the only time a cleric is vulnerable and able to be defeated when vs another cleric is when their plume shell is down, unable to have at least 2 IH casted, other than that, you can't kill him off with your metal damage spell.

    Did you say plume shot weak? moderate razor? scuse me, during a duel, those 3~4 plume shot = mana burnt when plume shell on, plume shell of and you get 2, maybe 3 shot dead. How many it take to take down an arcane user with metal spell? =/

    And great, guess wat? I can heal, you think it's as easy as vs a wizzard? =o
  • Nelae - Heavens Tear
    Nelae - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,490 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    What wont ppl say, lol....

    @Azazel yes, go figure using your magic attacks will actually hurt...guess you never tried it, or you never were on the other side of it....

    btw lv8 sleep, isnt that much better then lv5...when you hit the other will wake up...so that falls in the water lol...
    b:dirty
  • Azazel - Dreamweaver
    Azazel - Dreamweaver Posts: 203 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    yea it does matter Nelae
    Sleep -> IH 2~3, spark, razor
    6 sec + 2 sec + 4sec
    your opponent IH would wear off during when razor hit them.
    the higher level your sleep is, the more time you have to prepare + the more time they can't spam IH to take your physical spell.

    It's not like I never tried it, I have a closed friend which is also a cleric lvl84, he got 105 vit yes, his damage and mine is on bar, the different is he has TT80 (grief breath) +8 with 2 flawless and I using Ashura+1 with 1 beautiful.
  • Forp - Heavens Tear
    Forp - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,445 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Azazel - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    hm, seem like you are a blockhead 1

    the only time a cleric is vulnerable and able to be defeated when vs another cleric is when their plume shell is down, unable to have at least 2 IH casted, other than that, you can't kill him off with your metal damage spell.

    Did you say plume shot weak? moderate razor? scuse me, during a duel, those 3~4 plume shot = mana burnt when plume shell on, plume shell of and you get 2, maybe 3 shot dead. How many it take to take down an arcane user with metal spell? =/

    And great, guess wat? I can heal, you think it's as easy as vs a wizzard? =o

    Get out.

    i could probably 3 hit you, tbh.
  • RedsRose - Lost City
    RedsRose - Lost City Posts: 12,354 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Azazel - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    hm, seem like you are a blockhead 1

    the only time a cleric is vulnerable and able to be defeated when vs another cleric is when their plume shell is down, unable to have at least 2 IH casted, other than that, you can't kill him off with your metal damage spell.

    Did you say plume shot weak? moderate razor? scuse me, during a duel, those 3~4 plume shot = mana burnt when plume shell on, plume shell of and you get 2, maybe 3 shot dead. How many it take to take down an arcane user with metal spell? =/

    And great, guess wat? I can heal, you think it's as easy as vs a wizzard? =o

    Forp - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Get out.

    i could probably 3 hit you, tbh.

    LMAO....I had this quited before I got to your post b:chuckle...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!

    "Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
    Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous
  • Azazel - Dreamweaver
    Azazel - Dreamweaver Posts: 203 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Wieldthunder lvl 10: 200% of weapon damage plus 4583.3
    Temptest lvl8: 360% of weapon damage plus 8365.7

    Plume shelll: 80% phys damage reduction
    Arcane 7x, *** set : 70% elemental damage reduction

    I honestly telling you to try 3 hit any Robe user on your server, with TT80 set eh, because if I'm not mistaken they have 75% elemental reduction =/. So far with my 7x set the temptest bring me down to 4/7 bar no more. Try using wieldthunder, cyclone to 3 hits any of those clerics and pray they didn't heal or interrupted your casting by one way or another, good luck.

    The reason I saying in a duel, because no mp charm is there so you can't prob compare the damage it actually deal on your mp. in PK, first strike = win for most cases, other factor including pots, genies and heiro is too complicated to put inside your head.
  • Forp - Heavens Tear
    Forp - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,445 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    i hit over 3k on heavy classes, 2.5 on light and 2.2 on robe. all with wield thunder. what do you hit with plume shot, little boy? i probably out damage your double sparked razor feather with a normal attack.
  • Nelae - Heavens Tear
    Nelae - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,490 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Forp - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    i hit over 3k on heavy classes, 2.5 on light and 2.2 on robe. all with wield thunder. what do you hit with plume shot, little boy? i probably out damage your double sparked razor feather with a normal attack.

    ....ok this going to far Forp, possibility for that is lol..
    Razor sparked on robes is a deadly weapon ;p
    b:dirty
  • Forp - Heavens Tear
    Forp - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,445 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    double sparked razor feather hits less than my normal wield thunder on robes.
  • Sorbik - Lost City
    Sorbik - Lost City Posts: 202 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Razor feathers is an amazing PvP skill if used correctly.
    Sleep near 50% hp, debuff, double/triply fury, genie amp, razor feathers will most likely bypass the heiro.

    I use heaven plume shot, it does a tad less damage, but the risk of them waking up from sleep and dropping to take 50% less damage is too big (even with level 10 sleep). If it doesnt bypass heiro, i seal, and throw plumeshot, cyclone, plumeshot (all within the fury timer). The extra cyclone is to get that extra damage, since your plume shot can't do more than 50% damage.

    Forp stop using lvl 1 RF
  • Forp - Heavens Tear
    Forp - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,445 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Sorbik - Lost City wrote: »
    Razor feathers is an amazing PvP skill if used correctly.
    Sleep near 50% hp, debuff, double/triply fury, genie amp, razor feathers will most likely bypass the heiro.

    I use heaven plume shot, it does a tad less damage, but the risk of them waking up from sleep and dropping to take 50% less damage is too big (even with level 10 sleep). If it doesnt bypass heiro, i seal, and throw plumeshot, cyclone, plumeshot (all within the fury timer). The extra cyclone is to get that extra damage, since your plume shot can't do more than 50% damage.

    Forp stop using lvl 10 RF

    fixed it for you.

    maybe not on your server, but here robed classes care about their physical defense. and, honestly, i've seen some robed classes having higher pdef than mdef. razor feather is useless anymore.
  • Sorbik - Lost City
    Sorbik - Lost City Posts: 202 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Terrible, so terrible.
  • Azazel - Dreamweaver
    Azazel - Dreamweaver Posts: 203 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    yea rite, first 6k hp, now 2k2 on robe, you tend to go overboard with your #

    My damage can't be like yours with my lvl9 wieldthunder and ashura +1, beautiful shard. My damage on a wiz lvl 81 with full TT80 gears is 1k6, oh yea, she is poperly buffed with lvl10 magic shell.

    Don't test your damage on a lower level than you without buff if you really wanna brag about your damage.

    I can brag too, my best damage on mob is a krit 29 946 on Butterfly at level 30 with lvl 9 wield thunder
  • Reinef - Heavens Tear
    Reinef - Heavens Tear Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    I've been skimming this thread since last night and there's a question I feel needs to be asked. For everyone who says "Clerics are born to heal" or are "supposed to heal" I'm sure you don't mean that and only that, right? I'm not flaming or being sarcastic, I'm trying to clear this up for myself. I'm sure most of the community acknowledges that we can handle ourselves in PVE and PVP if built and played correctly. An issue that seemed to blaze up seemed to be whether we were limited in one way or another. I don't think anyone is trying to say a cleric is meant to only sit back and heal, because if that was the case I sure as hell wouldn't play the class.

    It seems to me that we are the only class that can effectively support our squad, so it's a no brainer that people would expect us to heal. Who else is going to do it?

    BUT, Clerics are versatile enough to go either way so I cut slack to those players who want to go FAC. I just treat them like wizards in squad and ask that they heal in emergencies if they can. There are enough support clerics running around to make up for the ones who want to help with the DDing.
  • Forp - Heavens Tear
    Forp - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,445 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Azazel - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    yea rite, first 6k hp, now 2k2 on robe, you tend to go overboard with your #

    My damage can't be like yours with my lvl9 wieldthunder and ashura +1, beautiful shard. My damage on a wiz lvl 81 with full TT80 gears is 1k6, oh yea, she is poperly buffed with lvl10 magic shell.

    Don't test your damage on a lower level than you without buff if you really wanna brag about your damage.

    I can brag too, my best damage on mob is a krit 29 946 on Butterfly at level 30 with lvl 9 wield thunder

    ok? so you automatically assume i hit a lower level to hit more than you? maybe you haven't realized, i'm 4 levels higher than you. my skills are higher, and so is my weapon. dumbass. and no, for the record, it was on an 87 cleric with 3* and molders for armour. all 8x or higher.

    scrub.
  • Azazel - Dreamweaver
    Azazel - Dreamweaver Posts: 203 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    pfft screenshot it and post here.

    I realize you higher level than me, with better spell etc, but I doubt you can wieldthunder an arcane at your level, properly buffed, without double spark, that much damage, that's all I can say.
  • Sorbik - Lost City
    Sorbik - Lost City Posts: 202 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Forp - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    ok? so you automatically assume i hit a lower level to hit more than you? maybe you haven't realized, i'm 4 levels higher than you. my skills are higher, and so is my weapon. dumbass. and no, for the record, it was on an 87 cleric with 3* and molders for armour. all 8x or higher.

    scrub.

    Just had the say: all 8x robe molders are ****. The best one is the 70 pants which gives pdef and hp. Theyre doing it wrong.

    And referring to your other comment, on Lost City, Llama (a 97 MG) has +8 pdef neck, belt, fully socketted g7/g8 pdef shards, has 8k pdef with earth barrier, EP, and WR buffs. Myself, in HH90, with no mdef accessories, with no refinement on my magic rings, have 10k mdef. Moot argument.

    Since you tested it on an EP, they have no Earth barrier, no HH90, and I'm sure they have not refined their pdef ornaments to +8.

    And on a side note: pdef shards are useless in EPs. We have plume shell. Don't be bad and PvP without plume shell. I don't even have my pdef ornaments refined, or my sky demon's pearl, and I can tank a belial hit, if you think you need pdef shards for PvE.
  • RedsRose - Lost City
    RedsRose - Lost City Posts: 12,354 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Azazel - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I can brag too, my best damage on mob is a krit 29 946 on Butterfly at level 30 with lvl 9 wield thunder

    LOL WHAT?!?!?

    Calling BS!!! b:bye

    Reword or you don't know your class very well considering you CAN NOT even get Thunder Wield until level 44 and level 9 at 76. But nice try.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!

    "Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
    Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous
  • andracil
    andracil Posts: 2,949 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    I believe we've been over the FAC topic already.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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