Heavy mage
Comments
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Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »you will not have the same damage as LA...LA crits more due to the increase in dex.....
you have to find a way to make up for the damage loss for it to be truly worth it....
also find a way so people wont say you a noob BM with a magic weapon lmao
The crit diff is very small, 3% max.
People are always going to think a magic user in heavy will be silly, but actions speak louder than words.0 -
I'm no veno expert but I'd imagine they can handle using lower level weapons because their pet's damage is independent of player stats, and a heavy armor veno would rely on pet damage.
Heavy armor Wizard would be viable if you've got -requirement gear but then you're limited to crafted or mob dropped EQ, ok pre 90s, but when there's TT90 armor available...you'd be silly to wear anything else, barring molds. But you'll always be gimping yourself on mdef making you in turn weaker to other 3/6 classes.
Basically I fail to see the point in a heavy armor wiz. For what purpose are you stating to heavy armor? To tank? Obviously not to DD.I like pie0 -
Not really a viable build if you'd like to get higher in the game.
Think about it, post 60 all mobs are magic, your attacks are ranged, you're an unreliable tank due to spells being easily interruptable. Your damage output is of most concern, you'll be dealing terrible damage, a 3% Crit difference is a BIG deal. PvP you'll get pwned by everyone, no spike damage, lower damage anyways and every magic class will be 1 shotting you.Currently flying internet spaceships around dodixie, moving to amarr soon.
Send me a mail if you wanna ask/request anything
Sanctuary's retired king of wizards alongside queen Saintblu.0 -
Witchburner - Sanctuary wrote: »Not really a viable build if you'd like to get higher in the game.
Think about it, post 60 all mobs are magic, your attacks are ranged, you're an unreliable tank due to spells being easily interruptable. Your damage output is of most concern, you'll be dealing terrible damage, a 3% Crit difference is a BIG deal. PvP you'll get pwned by everyone, no spike damage, lower damage anyways and every magic class will be 1 shotting you.
You forget you can wear robes, the only thing keeping this build together is the idea that you would have two full sets.0 -
My take is that it would be a novelty build, as in it is interesting until people learn your secret. You would survive *slightly* better against WR, WF (Phoenix), and WB (I stress slightly here as I have a hard time believing the difference would be greater than 10% phys reduction over LA which itself is less than 10% better than Arcane). You would tank the first couple shots by an archer better until they switch over to magic, same with EP. Run from MG, you're a low hp WR without marrow magic at that point. All in all you could try it but you could never be a top player with it. People know the top player's builds and your strength lies entirely in surprise.
As for PvE you would be worse off than LA (which itself is harder than Arcane because you do less damage and generally your arcane gear wont be as good as a pure's would be) because you do even less damage than arcane. -3% crit = -3% DPS. This means you'll spend more mana, more time, and get hit more (and harder!). All of this spells for a rough time leveling. You could do some funny things I'm sure (such as tank non-magic attack bosses) but your low HP and lack of aggro skills will make you inferior to WBs or Hercs.0 -
Actually the true power lies in the ability to switch sets of armor, meaning, all those weakness you mentioned (Except for the slight loss of crit) is covered.Elahim - Lost City wrote: »My take is that it would be a novelty build, as in it is interesting until people learn your secret. You would survive *slightly* better against WR, WF (Phoenix), and WB (I stress slightly here as I have a hard time believing the difference would be greater than 10% phys reduction over LA which itself is less than 10% better than Arcane). You would tank the first couple shots by an archer better until they switch over to magic, same with EP. Run from MG, you're a low hp WR without marrow magic at that point. All in all you could try it but you could never be a top player with it. People know the top player's builds and your strength lies entirely in surprise.
As for PvE you would be worse off than LA (which itself is harder than Arcane because you do less damage and generally your arcane gear wont be as good as a pure's would be) because you do even less damage than arcane. -3% crit = -3% DPS. This means you'll spend more mana, more time, and get hit more (and harder!). All of this spells for a rough time leveling. You could do some funny things I'm sure (such as tank non-magic attack bosses) but your low HP and lack of aggro skills will make you inferior to WBs or Hercs.0 -
Two sets of armour is way too expensive, my lvl70 gears so far have cost me 5mil. The build is very impracticle. So you'd either be using piece o' **** npc gear or investing more than a sane person should be in a build that your class was not designed for.
Also need I remind you that at level 80 even your base hp would be under 2K. Sure this build is unusual but it's not really usable. If you switch to robes magic classes will still fry you(Clerics tend to alternate between phys and magic anyway, venos deal both at once, and mages will still tank everything you throw at them) and HA, archers can still hit you with magic damage, barbs and BMs will take minimum damage(alter marrow magical and high hp will be very hard to overcome) whilst they can still stun you and smash through your low hp.Currently flying internet spaceships around dodixie, moving to amarr soon.
Send me a mail if you wanna ask/request anything
Sanctuary's retired king of wizards alongside queen Saintblu.0 -
Witchburner - Sanctuary wrote: »If you switch to robes magic classes will still fry you(Clerics tend to alternate between phys and magic anyway, venos deal both at once, and mages will still tank everything you throw at them) and HA, archers can still hit you with magic damage, barbs and BMs will take minimum damage(alter marrow magical and high hp will be very hard to overcome) whilst they can still stun you and smash through your low hp.
I am not sure about your points here. Perhaps I could explain my point of view and then you could elaborate on your thoughts?
I have seen archers telegraphing their metal attacks during their cast and cooldown times, so I believe you could switch armors then.
And you could have nearly twice a blademaster or barbarian's physical defense, so your low hp and super high physical defense basically means your recovery consumables get amplified?
(And I know some people say physical defense has diminishing returns, but -- for example -- when you have 80% damage reduction you take half the damage of someone with 60% damage reduction.)0 -
Witchburner - Sanctuary wrote: »Two sets of armour is way too expensive, my lvl70 gears so far have cost me 5mil. The build is very impracticle. So you'd either be using piece o' **** npc gear or investing more than a sane person should be in a build that your class was not designed for.
Also need I remind you that at level 80 even your base hp would be under 2K. Sure this build is unusual but it's not really usable. If you switch to robes magic classes will still fry you(Clerics tend to alternate between phys and magic anyway, venos deal both at once, and mages will still tank everything you throw at them) and HA, archers can still hit you with magic damage, barbs and BMs will take minimum damage(alter marrow magical and high hp will be very hard to overcome) whilst they can still stun you and smash through your low hp.
Base hp is irrelevant, at level 60 I have 2.3k. Its all about the shards, also this build would let you wear your levels helmet, giving you a lot more hp.0 -
You are really proposing that you switch armors in the middle of a pvp war? Not feasible. Against archers and clerics there is no way to know what they will hit you with next (and don't try to tell me you'll be able to see their channel and switch in time) besides I don't really know how you think you'll re-equip different armors based on who is attacking you while kiting and attacking. PvP as a wiz is complicated enough. This idea of yours will work in duels, but who cares about duels, they are nothing like actual pvp. Also if you are able to keep around 2 reasonably upgraded and sharded sets of armor you will have spent more money then a pure would by going to +7 everything.0
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_Blackjack_ - Lost City wrote: »You do realize that the str and dex requirements for 3* heavy are the same as for plain unstatted? So, if I had three star heavy, the phys def difference would be larger. Who would buy armor from the npc after level 30?
You are basing your claim on the idea that I would wear crappy armor, which I would not.
Oh, I realized the possibility of crafting 3* Heavy Armor, and it's a little unfair to compare 3* LA to NPC HA, my bad. The Pdef on a 3* HA would be significantly higher than the Pdef on 3* LA, of course. But the arcane protections wouldn't be nearly as good, and you'd have significantly lower m.attack than an Arcane player. Even LA has signifigant gimp of m.attack after reaching the later levels. While you'd be able to tank phys mobs better, as other people have stated, the magic ones would become quite a problem. And you wouldn't be able to attack as hard or as often with your spells - taking points from Magic decreases not just your attack strength, but the length of your MP bar as well. You'd run out of MP faster than either an LA or an Arcane, while using the same MP to hit for LESS, even if your HP bar doesn't take damage as quickly. Unfortunately, your HP bar will be just as short and the battle will drag out longer, bringing greater risk of death because - oops - you're low on MP and your attacks aren't doing damge fast enough. That pdef can only protect meagre HP for so long..._Blackjack_ - Lost City wrote: »You forget you can wear robes, the only thing keeping this build together is the idea that you would have two full sets.
Yes, you can have two full sets. Switching to the LA or even Robes would give you better magic DEFENSE... but your Crit and M.Attack would still be lousy as they will be unaffected by the base stats of the armor. You could get sharded ones to make up for the gimping but it won't be the same.
HA stat/worn gives you more time to live through physical attacks, and when switching to Arcane, more time to live through magic attacks, but in the end your magic attack, MP bar, and MP recovery will be so crippled that that extra survivability might not be worth it.
Don't get me wrong though - I admire you and anyone who tries and succeeds as a Heavy Mage. Unsquishy sounds delightful. But the mage class comes down to the magic damage we deal and I just wouldn't feel comfortable giving so much up for being unsquishy. I'd rather live with the slightly squishy, almost unsquishy of well-crafted LA and still be able to deal good damage.
We can't have both unsquishy and DD, is my point. But we can keep most of the DD and be less squishy as LA.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Harshlands || Lareish (Wz), Enraged Executor || AKA Howl Leader Garmr
~~ ~~~ The semi-sane, optimistic cynic with a light heart. ~~~ ~~0 -
Lareish - Harshlands wrote: »Oh, I realized the possibility of crafting 3* Heavy Armor, and it's a little unfair to compare 3* LA to NPC HA, my bad. The Pdef on a 3* HA would be significantly higher than the Pdef on 3* LA, of course. But the arcane protections wouldn't be nearly as good, and you'd have significantly lower m.attack than an Arcane player. Even LA has signifigant gimp of m.attack after reaching the later levels. While you'd be able to tank phys mobs better, as other people have stated, the magic ones would become quite a problem. And you wouldn't be able to attack as hard or as often with your spells - taking points from Magic decreases not just your attack strength, but the length of your MP bar as well. You'd run out of MP faster than either an LA or an Arcane, while using the same MP to hit for LESS, even if your HP bar doesn't take damage as quickly. Unfortunately, your HP bar will be just as short and the battle will drag out longer, bringing greater risk of death because - oops - you're low on MP and your attacks aren't doing damge fast enough. That pdef can only protect meagre HP for so long...
Yes, you can have two full sets. Switching to the LA or even Robes would give you better magic DEFENSE... but your Crit and M.Attack would still be lousy as they will be unaffected by the base stats of the armor. You could get sharded ones to make up for the gimping but it won't be the same.
HA stat/worn gives you more time to live through physical attacks, and when switching to Arcane, more time to live through magic attacks, but in the end your magic attack, MP bar, and MP recovery will be so crippled that that extra survivability might not be worth it.
Don't get me wrong though - I admire you and anyone who tries and succeeds as a Heavy Mage. Unsquishy sounds delightful. But the mage class comes down to the magic damage we deal and I just wouldn't feel comfortable giving so much up for being unsquishy. I'd rather live with the slightly squishy, almost unsquishy of well-crafted LA and still be able to deal good damage.
We can't have both unsquishy and DD, is my point. But we can keep most of the DD and be less squishy as LA.
HA would do the same damage, base damage speaking, as LA. All LA has is one or two more crit%. This build isnt an alternative to pure, its an alternative to LA.0 -
Elahim - Lost City wrote: »You are really proposing that you switch armors in the middle of a pvp war? Not feasible. Against archers and clerics there is no way to know what they will hit you with next (and don't try to tell me you'll be able to see their channel and switch in time) besides I don't really know how you think you'll re-equip different armors based on who is attacking you while kiting and attacking. PvP as a wiz is complicated enough. This idea of yours will work in duels, but who cares about duels, they are nothing like actual pvp. Also if you are able to keep around 2 reasonably upgraded and sharded sets of armor you will have spent more money then a pure would by going to +7 everything.
Im not saying to switch on the fly, this is more 1v1 gank or pvp based. You switch based on who you are fighting. Archer, Bm or barb, heavy. Cleric, veno or mage, robes.0 -
_Blackjack_ - Lost City wrote: »HA would do the same damage, base damage speaking, as LA. All LA has is one or two more crit%. This build isnt an alternative to pure, its an alternative to LA.
I'm a little confused about that. I've heard it's that way for Veno HA vs LA, so it probably would be the same for Mage...
But if I were to shift my point distribution to be able to start equipping HA armor instead of the LA armor I use now, I'd have to stop putting points into magic for several levels, and then put less into magic to continue maintaining the HA armor stats. So I don't see how the M.Attack could be the same for HA mage and LA mage.
What's your point distribution like by level? If I could honestly have the same power I do as LA but not be a squishy it would be quite nice. But from what I've been playing with stat wise it doesn't seem possible. (I used HA armor on my mage for the first 10 levels because that's what was dropping and I was getting hand-me-downs from my husband's BM. I couldn't continue equipping it into 2x because I needed the points for magic and just barely make LA stats.)
*edit*
As for equipment switching, you can move weapons and armor into your quickbar so you CAN switch on the fly by single-clicking them in the bar. You'd just have to have enough space for both sets, all pieces or at least the best ones, and that's harder once your reach higher levels and get a wider range of skills. Which are much more important for your bar.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Harshlands || Lareish (Wz), Enraged Executor || AKA Howl Leader Garmr
~~ ~~~ The semi-sane, optimistic cynic with a light heart. ~~~ ~~0 -
Lareish - Harshlands wrote: »I'm a little confused about that. I've heard it's that way for Veno HA vs LA, so it probably would be the same for Mage...
But if I were to shift my point distribution to be able to start equipping HA armor instead of the LA armor I use now, I'd have to stop putting points into magic for several levels, and then put less into magic to continue maintaining the HA armor stats. So I don't see how the M.Attack could be the same for HA mage and LA mage.
What's your point distribution like by level? If I could honestly have the same power I do as LA but not be a squishy it would be quite nice. But from what I've been playing with stat wise it doesn't seem possible. (I used HA armor on my mage for the first 10 levels because that's what was dropping and I was getting hand-me-downs from my husband's BM. I couldn't continue equipping it into 2x because I needed the points for magic and just barely make LA stats.)
*edit*
As for equipment switching, you can move weapons and armor into your quickbar so you CAN switch on the fly by single-clicking them in the bar. You'd just have to have enough space for both sets, all pieces or at least the best ones, and that's harder once your reach higher levels and get a wider range of skills. Which are much more important for your bar.
It works because im not using my levels HA, Simply take your build, take points out of dex with a restat, add them to str and boom, you can equip your levels magic wep if you put three points into mag every level so alternate. 3 mag 2 str and 3 mag 1 str 1 dex, when needed. it works, ive tried it.0 -
_Blackjack_ - Lost City wrote: »It works because im not using my levels HA, Simply take your build, take points out of dex with a restat, add them to str and boom, you can equip your levels magic wep if you put three points into mag every level so alternate. 3 mag 2 str and 3 mag 1 str 1 dex, when needed. it works, ive tried it.
Hm. Okay, so it isn't a "True Heavy" build then. It's a Heavy/Magic build.
Y'know, it's beginning to sound rather feasible. I'm guesing equipping LA without extra stat boosts becomes impossible because of the shift from Dex to Str, correct? *sighs* Well, I knew my Armor of Dawn wasn't going to last forever. In fact, Not Forever is up across the next 7 levels anyway as I reach the next group of equips XD (I really wish there were armor looks in the Fashion rather than random summer tops and skirts - much more my style XD)
So basically, the by-level stats for a Heavy Magic Caster should look like this:
Magic: 3x Level
Strength: 1.5x Level
Dexterity: 0.5x Level
Vitality: What's That?
I don't know if I want to bother with the expense of a restat note to try this out, I could probably shift towards it across the next 6 levels or so. I'll take a look at my stats and see how doable it might be for me to switch at this point in time. If it doesn't work out, I could give the armor to my heavy veno and move back to LA.
Thank you, and dang you, sir, for the debate. Quit swaying my headspace please
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Harshlands || Lareish (Wz), Enraged Executor || AKA Howl Leader Garmr
~~ ~~~ The semi-sane, optimistic cynic with a light heart. ~~~ ~~0 -
Lareish - Harshlands wrote: »Hm. Okay, so it isn't a "True Heavy" build then. It's a Heavy/Magic build.
Y'know, it's beginning to sound rather feasible. I'm guesing equipping LA without extra stat boosts becomes impossible because of the shift from Dex to Str, correct? *sighs* Well, I knew my Armor of Dawn wasn't going to last forever. In fact, Not Forever is up across the next 7 levels anyway as I reach the next group of equips XD (I really wish there were armor looks in the Fashion rather than random summer tops and skirts - much more my style XD)
So basically, the by-level stats for a Heavy Magic Caster should look like this:
Magic: 3x Level
Strength: 1.5x Level
Dexterity: 0.5x Level
Vitality: What's That?
I don't know if I want to bother with the expense of a restat note to try this out, I could probably shift towards it across the next 6 levels or so. I'll take a look at my stats and see how doable it might be for me to switch at this point in time. If it doesn't work out, I could give the armor to my heavy veno and move back to LA.
Thank you, and dang you, sir, for the debate. Quit swaying my headspace please
Thats correct, a full heavy build would be worthless due to the loss of damage but the whole point of the build is taking LA and making it more specialized so instead of being mediocre in two things (Mag def and phys) You switch between awesome at one thing and the other, covering for mages weaknesses.0 -
Considering your point on not having a reduction on damage when using HA, yes definitely agree. And also just from my own point of view. Right now im a LA mage, and i've put a set of LA and a set of Arcane in my hotkeys. Meaning to say i can fast switch inbetween both sets as and when i need it.
Basically it all comes down to being able to afford 2 sets of armours, and most importantly training enough to be skilled enough to alternate fast enough ( Since you would need to observe ur opponents well enough to be able to determine what attack they would be using, magic or phy). In any case in all MMORPGS one would need to at least KNOW the common skills of all classes and will need to practice more in PVP situations. Whether in Duels or TW. Of course TW would be harder as there could be many people hitting u at once. But no matter what build u are, as a mage when ppl start rushing to you. The first thing u do is to ? RUN. b:thanks
Even now as im a LA mage, i quick switch inbetween LA and Arcane sets. So i still carry 2 sets of armour with me everywhere. Though it can be troublesome i like doing this for PK and ... ohhh it appears to be quite
pro. I like the image MUAHAHHAHAHA b:victory
So personally im for this HA/MAGIC build thats mentioned in this thread. Just that ill need Money and Practice.Love Is Complicated.
「愛は複雑だ．」
Amor es muy complicado.
《爱是复杂的》
Do not argue with an idiot, he will bring you down to his level and beat you with experience. b:bye0 -
people, heavy wizard is NOT an alternative to light. check requeriments at NPC or auctioneer and see with your eyes heavy armoury requires a LOT of strength. The only way to have equips matching your level is to spend a lot of time at market or luck crafting 3-star with -% requeriment and it IS a must to have the latest magic weapon for your level.
At low levels heavy wiz does NOT have good survivability because you won't refine noob items to get extra HP and morning dew only comes at lvl24. Even with 2 sets (arcane and heavy) that won't change much. For PvM the light build is much better for being balanced, having more damage and being able to have only 1 set. Even for high phys aoe bosses light is better because you won't be in a squad without cleric (and we know clerics have lower phys defense than we do).
Unless you wish to solo melee bosses (which can be funny but not very practical), the only usage of this build is for PvP. Only barbs would have better survivability vs. flesh ream pets (because of their HP) and you would be nearly immune to plume shot.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
If you're willing to join another online game do NOT join any hosted by K2 NETWORK. Want to know why? Check BBB complaints.0 -
It is incorrect. Heavy wizard have low hp AND low mdef, so anyone and their mom will rip you apart, even barbs and bms (apoth items add magical attack just enough to do it). The only real use of this build is leveling, leveling and leveling on melee mobs.King_Solomon - Heavens Tear wrote: »Unless you wish to solo melee bosses (which can be funny but not very practical), the only usage of this build is for PvP. Only barbs would have better survivability vs. flesh ream pets (because of their HP) and you would be nearly immune to plume shot.--
PWonline.ru, Sirius: Иней, 70 cleric - off.
PWI, Lost City: Rinnve, 7X wiz (frozen);
Allods Online, Раскол: Риннве, 2X occultist0 -
heavy mage is ultimate mage, more pdef same damage0
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heavy mage does not do same damage.
im a pure wiz with 5% crit and almost about to get 6%
LA mage makes up for damage with crits
pure mag just ownz and pure mag/dex is overkillSins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze0 -
b:chuckleb:chuckle a fail mage told you about HA mage?b:laughb:laugh0
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I'll be weighing it out for myself once I get back ingame and compare the mdef stats. I've been doing well as LA, but I'm not fully willing to trade my good mdef for better pdef and low mdef. My Veno is heavy, but hasn't reached the same level as my mage. I'll be comparing her armor stats to my mage's armor stats, to see how it would work out if I switched my points over to allow my mage to wear HA -1 level.
I suspect I'll probably be keeping my mage as LA - Trading the natural weakness for an unnatural one wouldn't exactly be worth it since the HP bar won't change ^x^;[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Harshlands || Lareish (Wz), Enraged Executor || AKA Howl Leader Garmr
~~ ~~~ The semi-sane, optimistic cynic with a light heart. ~~~ ~~0 -
Shano - Lost City wrote: »b:chuckleb:chuckle a fail mage told you about HA mage?b:laughb:laugh
danika my hero, watchu talkin bout0 -
I went back and checked into the LA vs previous-level HA stats. NPC vs NPC, there's only about 30 points difference in Pdef between the current-level LA and previous-level HA. But the HA has roughly half the mdef. I don't have 3* HA to compare to my 3* LA but I expect the differences would carry out, with the mdef difference becoming increasingly drastic. The Pdef difference would widen as well, but not as exponentially.
I was able to compare 2* Mythril Greaves to 1* Dawn boots and... well, I'm still going with the LA for my Wiz. Veno's getting Heavy though.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Harshlands || Lareish (Wz), Enraged Executor || AKA Howl Leader Garmr
~~ ~~~ The semi-sane, optimistic cynic with a light heart. ~~~ ~~0 -
HAHA thought of something funny. Imagine statting ur wiz with HA helmet, Arcane robe, LA Leggings, LA boots. mmm cool huh ! HAHAHAb:victoryLove Is Complicated.
「愛は複雑だ．」
Amor es muy complicado.
《爱是复杂的》
Do not argue with an idiot, he will bring you down to his level and beat you with experience. b:bye0 -
interesting, I may convert to HA tonight b:laugh0
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HA mage will be a big target for any mage with blade tempest or due to genies any class that has the genie skill that does the exact same thing. Phys/mag damage. Switching between armour makes you exploitable. Even if you can switch fast that is still a few valuable seconds in which someone could cast a spell mid change. You can never know how the battle will unfold.
Also since i mentioned genies that is another thing. you won't know what skills their genies have and how many genies they have. A barb could have a genie with all magic based skills. but than again That simple fact that genies add unpredictability is for all classes and builds so it is kind of null and void.0 -
Heavy Armor Melee mage using only frost buff and earthen embrace = win... can one hit any class xP and never die. lolz0
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