Is Flesh Ream REALLY bugged?

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  • Tearvalerin - Sanctuary
    Tearvalerin - Sanctuary Posts: 3,787 Arc User
    edited May 2009
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    Gorgonia - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    wow, how did u make it to lvl90 in the new server? b:chuckleb:chuckle
    its called having a fat wallet, with nothing better to spend it on.

    interesting musing to throw in:

    i lost my train of thought when i had some numbers somewhere idk, ill go find them in my messy house and write them up wee...
  • OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear
    OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited May 2009
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    Bladecutter - Sanctuary wrote: »
    4th: fly to ground dmg is 50% dmg reduction

    Flying pets don't have their damage halved, only players that are flying have their damage halved.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Meca - Harshlands
    Meca - Harshlands Posts: 310 Arc User
    edited May 2009
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    OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Flying pets don't have their damage halved, only players that are flying have their damage halved.

    i'm sure thats supposed to be a bug aswell, but what do i no, PW is full of bugs anyway, we need a dev exterminator to get rid of them all...blow up PW in beijing and start from scratch
  • OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear
    OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited May 2009
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    Meca - Harshlands wrote: »
    i'm sure thats supposed to be a bug aswell, but what do i no, PW is full of bugs anyway, we need a dev exterminator to get rid of them all...blow up PW in beijing and start from scratch

    How would that be a bug? The Petite Sawfly has a slow attack speed, and most pets with slow attack speeds have high Attack to make up for fewer attacks. As far as I know, the half damage has only ever applied to player characters, and not pets.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • RogueFox - Heavens Tear
    RogueFox - Heavens Tear Posts: 215 Arc User
    edited May 2009
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    is this the formula that says phoenix are evil??
    Osiris - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Just did a little self-experiment. A guidmate with a nix of my level (79) casted flesh ream on me.

    nappoaabj.jpg

    Important nix stats:

    PAtk: 3275
    Flesh ream lvl 4: 180% of base PAtk over 9 seconds - 3 sec intervals

    My physical def stat: 1876 (37%)

    (unbuffed, poorly equipped - no physical belt/neck and no molded lvl 78 gear)


    base attack = 3275
    buff multiplier = 1.3 (30%)
    Flesh Ream multiplier = 1.8 (180%)
    Flesh Ream intervals = 3 (/ 3 sec)
    Physical Defence multiplier = 1-0.37 = 0.63
    PVP multiplier = X (supposed 0.25 / expected 1.0)

    3275*1.3*1.8 = 7663.5 //entire damage over 9 seconds
    (3275*1.3*1.8)/3 = 2554.5 //damage per tick

    fully reduced damage = PvP-multiplier * physical def multiplier * damage per tick

    1374 = X * 0.63 * 2554.5
    x = 1374 / (0.63 * 2554.5)
    x = 0.85377 //PvP multiplier

    So according to my calculations the 75% doesn't work for this spell at all but its not completly unreduced (~14.6%). Strangely enough the PvP multiplier would be about 1 if the skill would do fire, metal or wood damage ((1374 / (0.56 * 2554.5) = 0.961) but i doubt that is the case.

    Possible reasons for the weird PvP multiplier:
    • I fail at maths (if so, please correct me)
    • the skill does wood, metal or fire damage (doubtful)
    • The damage reduction system contains factors that we are not aware of
    • the PvP multiplier for this spell is meant to be 0.85377
    hehehe i like my sig >:)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Gammaburst - Harshlands
    Gammaburst - Harshlands Posts: 62 Arc User
    edited May 2009
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    And another thing that gets people frustrated with the venos class is, Venos are the easiest leveling class on top of OP pets.

    It is my belief that the veno class was intended to be for players who wanted a fun easy leveling and cheap leveling class. It was intended for people who wanted to stay out of the all drama and be left alone to grind. Easy grind and leveler but mediocre PvP class. To me, it's seems obvious that was what the game designers had in mind with veno class.

    For some reason they eliminated the damage reduction for pets in PvP from what i read. And now veno has become a PvP overpowered monster that can also lvl up faster than any other class. Also Veno is the cheapest class to have, so it can easily afford better gear and what not making it even more powerful.

    Veno = triple threat.
    Fast level + Little cost + Strong PvP capabilities = QQ for all other classes.
  • GammaBlast - Lost City
    GammaBlast - Lost City Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited May 2009
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    Same person that posted above.

    BTW, i do know what i talk about, when it comes to veno being cheap and easy to level. Money was never even a concern while playing veno. Hardly any worries when it come to deing either cause of having pet.
  • Osiris - Dreamweaver
    Osiris - Dreamweaver Posts: 218 Arc User
    edited May 2009
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    RogueFox - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    is this the formula that says phoenix are evil??

    Stop construing everything i say as QQ and hate. That was never my intention and if this is your impression of what i said then i'm sorry for you.
  • OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear
    OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited May 2009
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    GammaBlast - Lost City wrote: »
    Same person that posted above.

    BTW, i do know what i talk about, when it comes to veno being cheap and easy to level. Money was never even a concern while playing veno. Hardly any worries when it come to deing either cause of having pet.
    Gammaburst - Harshlands wrote: »
    And another thing that gets people frustrated with the venos class is, Venos are the easiest leveling class on top of OP pets.

    It is my belief that the veno class was intended to be for players who wanted a fun easy leveling and cheap leveling class. It was intended for people who wanted to stay out of the all drama and be left alone to grind. Easy grind and leveler but mediocre PvP class. To me, it's seems obvious that was what the game designers had in mind with veno class.

    For some reason they eliminated the damage reduction for pets in PvP from what i read. And now veno has become a PvP overpowered monster that can also lvl up faster than any other class. Also Veno is the cheapest class to have, so it can easily afford better gear and what not making it even more powerful.

    Veno = triple threat.
    Fast level + Little cost + Strong PvP capabilities = QQ for all other classes.

    Fast level? Before or after level 60? Last I read, other classes can level faster after level 60ish depending on build and class.

    No PvP damage reduction for pets? You might want to fact check that because outside of one skill, pets have their damage reduced by 75% in PvP.

    Most of what you posted is simply half-truths, some of it's plain wrong, and some is simply your opinion, and some is true to a point, but past that point, isn't true.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Aesthor - Heavens Tear
    Aesthor - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,845 Arc User
    edited May 2009
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    *yawn* I like how the GMs and devs who can read this are ignoring it. All of your bickering makes no difference. In the end only the devs can say whether or not flesh ream was meant to be this way, though I doubt they'd be truthful if they say they plan to fix it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    ಥ_ಥ MOAR.
    SkyKoC - How long is yours?
  • Lucifeara - Lost City
    Lucifeara - Lost City Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited May 2009
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    Walterthewf - Harshlands wrote: »
    They need to give it like half reduction or something.


    Why half? To be totally fair they need to apply the same 75% damage reduction that everyone else has. All this qqing boils down to the simple fact that all skills in pvp have 75% damage reduction. If venos are gonna be able to sidestep this with flesh ream, then remove everyone elses 75% reduction, or fix flesh ream on venos. Problem is they won't because its an incentive to go veno on the pvp servers, and pulls cash shop revenue through battle pack sales. in the meantime we got nub venos running around owning people, then claiming its skill, when its just pure maths.The damage dealt is greater than an average geared persons hp + heiro tick, taking charm cooldown into consideration.Its baffling and a bit pathetic that such a blatant flaw hasn't been rectified, and doesn't showcase any professionalism on the part of the dev's.
  • OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear
    OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited May 2009
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    Lucifeara - Lost City wrote: »
    Why half? To be totally fair they need to apply the same 75% damage reduction that everyone else has. All this qqing boils down to the simple fact that all skills in pvp have 75% damage reduction. If venos are gonna be able to sidestep this with flesh ream, then remove everyone elses 75% reduction, or fix flesh ream on venos. Problem is they won't because its an incentive to go veno on the pvp servers, and pulls cash shop revenue through battle pack sales. in the meantime we got nub venos running around owning people, then claiming its skill, when its just pure maths.The damage dealt is greater than an average geared persons hp + heiro tick, taking charm cooldown into consideration.Its baffling and a bit pathetic that such a blatant flaw hasn't been rectified, and doesn't showcase any professionalism on the part of the dev's.

    Sure, remove 75% PvP DR from everything else, and watch everyone cry as Phoenixes around the world start hitting everyone for 15k damage in about 2 seconds because Bash does all 10k damage upfront while the veno watches from a safe distance.

    FYI, PvP is always pure maths regardless of what class you play because this game runs on mathematics. As for "nub venos", each class has it's idiots running around claiming that what they do takes some sort of "skill".

    It is baffling and a bit pathetic to attack the devs for something they might not have been told to change, and while it is true the devs in China write the code it isn't necessarily true that they decide what needs to be changed, what doesn't need to be changed, and what needs, or is going to be implemented, or when any of that is going to happen. They ultimately work for someone else, and that someone else isn't you or me.

    In the end, no one is forcing you to play this, or any other game.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Revolte - Heavens Tear
    Revolte - Heavens Tear Posts: 314 Arc User
    edited May 2009
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    Konariraiden - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Actually, from what I ascertained from other similar forums, it's neither the Phoenix nor the Flesh Ream skill that are bugged. However, it is the lack of PvP damage reduction from the use of said skill that is causing the grief.

    Oh, and as for flames...this'll have to do, 'kay? ^_^ b:angry

    that makes more sense then anything else

    I wish people would get off it for once though, or at least move their suggestions to the suggestions section
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Super Duper Uber Booper
  • Lucifeara - Lost City
    Lucifeara - Lost City Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited May 2009
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    Revolte - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    that makes more sense then anything else

    I wish people would get off it for once though, or at least move their suggestions to the suggestions section

    Easy to say when your not on the pvp server. Talking here from the point of view of being on the pk server and expected class balance. Which at the moment doesn't exist.
  • OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear
    OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited May 2009
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    Lucifeara - Lost City wrote: »
    Easy to say when your not on the pvp server. Talking here from the point of view of being on the pk server and expected class balance. Which at the moment doesn't exist.

    The classes are balanced as best can be done without unbalancing the PvE side.


    Wait for the genies to be released, and learn to use apothecary pots as well because it's unlikely for Flesh Ream to be changed anytime soon
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Rubix - Harshlands
    Rubix - Harshlands Posts: 130 Arc User
    edited May 2009
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    No one complains about pets being affected by push back nor the fact that a pet dies REALLY fast. Live with it people either kill the veno faster or run lol. I mean seriously, if Flesh Ream had a dmg reduction how in the world could veno hang in PvP. There are some really good venos dont get me wrong but none of their skills hit extremely hard like other classes so pet is their aid.
    I have nothing to say.
  • Dioica - Sanctuary
    Dioica - Sanctuary Posts: 136 Arc User
    edited May 2009
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    Bladecutter - Sanctuary wrote: »
    let me clarify the reductions:

    First of all: theres a 75% reduction in PVP, if there wasnt, i would be hitting wizzys for 3k-4k... (they have same def as some mobs)

    2nd: theres a dmg reduction when you attack a higher lvl target, if i say i know what it is i would be lying, but it is in pwdatabase

    3rd: the armor dmg reduction applys in pvp After (someone confirm plz) the normal pvp reduction

    4th: fly to ground dmg is 50% dmg reduction

    EDIT: k, got it 3712, and the description, so, this is what it seems

    3712+200% of 3712= 11136 (total dmg without reduction)
    k
    11136 to mobs with 0 phy def (lvl 1..)
    lets see this
    11136/3=3712... lol (per tick..)
    (25x3712)/100=928 (thats for players with 0% defense)
    my resistance is 63% with no buffs
    so...
    (928x37)/100= 343.36 (Wheres fly dmg reduction there?)
    343.36/2= 171.68

    i tested with a friend (higher than that dmg) and it was 1250.. so, thats the problem

    First: I am not sure how you measure the physical defense of monsters. Can someone tell me?

    Second: I believe this level-based damage reduction only applies when players attack monsters, and does not apply in PvP.

    Third: I would like to see someone actually test and post numbers for PvP damage reduction without armor.

    Fourth: This one gets complicated. But, Damage over Time skills do not get this reduction, even when players use them.

    I am going to guess your numbers were for some level of phoenix. http://www.ecatomb.net/petstat.php says level 90 phoenixs do 4096 base damage, but I also do not know if ripping bite does only 200% damage in their bleed or if ripping bite does base+200% damage from bleed. But I am pretty sure you do not get your regular physical defense against bleed, so I believe your calculations were bogus. (And, apparently no one gets damage reduction from fly vs ground differences when they get hit by damage over time skills.)
  • OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear
    OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited May 2009
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    Dioica - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I am going to guess your numbers were for some level of phoenix. http://www.ecatomb.net/petstat.php says level 90 phoenixs do 4096 base damage, but I also do not know if ripping bite does only 200% damage in their bleed or if ripping bite does base+200% damage from bleed. But I am pretty sure you do not get your regular physical defense against bleed, so I believe your calculations were bogus. (And, apparently no one gets damage reduction from fly vs ground differences when they get hit by damage over time skills.)

    The skill Flesh Ream is a normal melee attack that debuffs the mob/player with a DoT effect that does 200% damage over 9 seconds in 3 second intervals. The initial melee attack is affected by PvP DR while the added Bleed debuff is not. Part of the damage seems to be mitigated by something, but what I have no idea since on the tests I did against a couple level 33 mobs with sawfly saw the FR DoT having a 33% DR and everything else having a 22% DR. Against an arcane veno 6 levels higher the Flesh Ream damage was seeing DRs of 26% in caster form and 34% in Fox Form which means it is mitigated by P. Def, and normal melee attacks and Bash were getting reduced by 14% and 23% (caster/fox form) after the 75% PvP DR and half-damage flying vs ground. From what I've seen, though, the DR on the DoT of Flesh Ream is higher than the DR on melee attacks and other physical damage skills like Bash.

    Oddly enough, against ground mobs, the sawfly did not get it's damage reduced vs ground mobs, just against characters on the ground.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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