Is Flesh Ream REALLY bugged?

Nayiro - Sanctuary

From what I hear, it's the same on ALL version, you guys ever think that maybe, it's NOT bugged?

(Not QQ or Flaming BTW)

EDIT: Yes I DO have a Veno (lvl 52, working on a 'Nix =])

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

i dunno maybe on the phoenix its not really bugged and just really hits that hard, its base attack + 200% over 9s.

at 90 they have 4096 + 30% attack, slap that hit + 200% of that ridiculously high attack, and maybe the bleed isnt bugged so much after all. 95% of these people who call it messed up dont even have venos, so who knows, anyone wanna do the math?

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

Nayiro - Sanctuary wrote: »

From what I hear, it's the same on ALL version, you guys ever think that maybe, it's NOT bugged?

(Not QQ or Flaming BTW)

<slaps forehead>
oh well
<pulls lawn chair>
<grabs a drink>
<grabs some popcorn>
<sits back and enjoys the fireworks/flamefest>

Nayiro - Sanctuary

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

<slaps forehead>
oh well
<pulls lawn chair>
<grabs a drink>
<grabs some popcorn>
<sits back and enjoys the fireworks/flamefest>

At least we'll have a slightly differnt show right?

Konariraiden - Heavens Tear

Actually, from what I ascertained from other similar forums, it's neither the Phoenix nor the Flesh Ream skill that are bugged. However, it is the lack of PvP damage reduction from the use of said skill that is causing the grief.

Oh, and as for flames...this'll have to do, 'kay? ^_^ b:angry

Leonnator - Sanctuary

There have been many posts about and I think it isn't, the DEV just haven't made OP skills for other classes yetb:thanks

Here are some of my ideas

Barb-Make true form give them 200% hp

BM-A passive skill that make all their AOE have 2x range

Wiz-A chance to do 2xdmg on spells

Cleric-A special item that makes them cast a IH on themself when they do a attackb:dirty

Archer-A item that let's them have 1.5x range

There all balancedb:chuckle

Nayiro - Sanctuary

Konariraiden - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Actually, from what I ascertained from other similar forums, it's neither the Phoenix nor the Flesh Ream skill that are bugged. However, it is the lack of PvP damage reduction from the use of said skill that is causing the grief.

Oh, and as for flames...this'll have to do, 'kay? ^_^ b:angry

Yes thats why people say its "bugged" because it deals full damage in PvP

Konariraiden - Heavens Tear

Well, it's kinda the only skill that has that...I mean, a barb's Flesh Ream doesn't do that...only one pertaining to Veno's pets. Honestly, I think that the reduction should be applied to Flesh Ream (note how I did not use the words "bug" or "fixed") when pets use it...but it doesn't effect me that much at the moment, since I'm not really a PvP'er...I'ma big ol' carebear. b:victory

Chaotiic - Lost City

When the game was originally designed there was no nix/herc pets. The highest attack damage pet was the scorpion which does 2 digit damage in pvp because of the reduction. Therefore the venos pet was not of any significance in pvp as it deals 2 digits and dies in 2-3 hits which disadvantaged venos in pvp as their skills are slightly weaker. It is quite conceivable then that FR was given no reduction in pvp as it meant venos were given back their equality with their pets doing some decent damage but said pets could be killed fairly quickly.

However later in the game when nixs were introduced the story is changed. Nixs to an air target deal roughly 700/800 to light armor at 9x and are pretty impossible to kill which makes it a very good pet but add FR to the mix and you have people taking 2k per tick when average 9xhp is around 5k and u have people screaming OP and begging for a fix.

Its quite easy to say FR might well have been intended considering pets with stats like the phoenix did not exist originally and the pets that were in the game were fairly gimp without it. However with the existence of the phoenix it is a very unbalancing factor.

Walterthewf - Harshlands

Chaotiic - Lost City wrote: »

When the game was originally designed there was no nix/herc pets. The highest attack damage pet was the scorpion which does 2 digit damage in pvp because of the reduction. Therefore the venos pet was not of any significance in pvp as it deals 2 digits and dies in 2-3 hits which disadvantaged venos in pvp as their skills are slightly weaker. It is quite conceivable then that FR was given no reduction in pvp as it meant venos were given back their equality with their pets doing some decent damage but said pets could be killed fairly quickly.

However later in the game when nixs were introduced the story is changed. Nixs to an air target deal roughly 700/800 to light armor at 9x and are pretty impossible to kill which makes it a very good pet but add FR to the mix and you have people taking 2k per tick when average 9xhp is around 5k and u have people screaming OP and begging for a fix.

Its quite easy to say FR might well have been intended considering pets with stats like the phoenix did not exist originally and the pets that were in the game were fairly gimp without it. However with the existence of the phoenix it is a very unbalancing factor.

They need to give it like half reduction or something.

Nayiro - Sanctuary

So far this thread is very calm and has very good, concise points.

Nereila - Heavens Tear

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

so who knows, anyone wanna do the math?

I doubt if this is completely accurate, but it's close.

base attack = 4096
buff multiplier = 1.3
Flesh Ream multiplier = 3
Flesh Ream duration = 9
PVP multiplier = .25 (not sure on this one)

4096*1.3*3 = 15974.4
(4096*1.3*3)/9 = 1774.9
((4096*1.3*3)/9)*.25 = 443.7

Nayiro - Sanctuary

Nereila - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I doubt if this is completely accurate, but it's close.

base attack = 4096
buff multiplier = 1.3
Flesh Ream multiplier = 3
Flesh Ream duration = 9
PVP multiplier = .25 (not sure on this one)

4096*1.3*3 = 15974.4
(4096*1.3*3)/9 = 1774.9
((4096*1.3*3)/9)*.25 = 443.7

That is still quite a lot for a pet.
as stated before the Scorps were doing double digits.

and yes, it is .25

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

Nayiro - Sanctuary wrote: »

At least we'll have a slightly differnt show right?

thank you, I was getting tired of the "old one"

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

Chaotiic - Lost City wrote: »

When the game was originally designed there was no nix/herc pets. The highest attack damage pet was the scorpion which does 2 digit damage in pvp because of the reduction. Therefore the venos pet was not of any significance in pvp as it deals 2 digits and dies in 2-3 hits which disadvantaged venos in pvp as their skills are slightly weaker. It is quite conceivable then that FR was given no reduction in pvp as it meant venos were given back their equality with their pets doing some decent damage but said pets could be killed fairly quickly.

However later in the game when nixs were introduced the story is changed. Nixs to an air target deal roughly 700/800 to light armor at 9x and are pretty impossible to kill which makes it a very good pet but add FR to the mix and you have people taking 2k per tick when average 9xhp is around 5k and u have people screaming OP and begging for a fix.

Its quite easy to say FR might well have been intended considering pets with stats like the phoenix did not exist originally and the pets that were in the game were fairly gimp without it. However with the existence of the phoenix it is a very unbalancing factor.

Thank you for that insight. I think I have to agree, last TW I was in, my poor sawfly was chasing a LA Cleric around hitting it for 9 damage.... (yah, the cleric was higher level), I do not have FR on my sawfly......

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

Nereila - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I doubt if this is completely accurate, but it's close.

base attack = 4096
buff multiplier = 1.3
Flesh Ream multiplier = 3
Flesh Ream duration = 9
PVP multiplier = .25 (not sure on this one)

4096*1.3*3 = 15974.4
(4096*1.3*3)/9 = 1774.9
((4096*1.3*3)/9)*.25 = 443.7

Flesh Ream has two components: a basic melee attack, and a DoT component. the Dot itself is a x2 multiplier + the melee attack which isn't added into the DoT effect.

So...

Phoenix upfront damage (with buff): 5324.8
Flesh Ream DoT: 10649.6 Total, amd 1183.29 per tick

Flesh Ream DoT w/ PvP DR: 295.82
Upfront attack damage w/ PvP DR: 1331.2

Question: do flying pets have halved damage against ground targets? Never actually bothered paying attention to my Sawfly's damage since it spends most of the time stuck on terrain. <.<

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear

im certain it isnt..the only things bugged are people who envy venos their birds, and me, for having to hear so many people griping about this! b:angry

why is it that everyone whines about flesh ream, when so many pets have it? my kowlin has it, same as a phoenix...people going to run for the hills when they see a kowlin? same move. my point is that its not the move, its that the phoenix is (as far as i know) the *only* pet that has maxed out stats all around. thats what makes it so tough, not the freaking move.

Nayiro - Sanctuary wrote: »

From what I hear, it's the same on ALL version, you guys ever think that maybe, it's NOT bugged?

(Not QQ or Flaming BTW)

EDIT: Yes I DO have a Veno (lvl 52, working on a 'Nix =])

scionofchaos

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »

im certain it isnt..the only things bugged are people who envy venos their birds, and me, for having to hear so many people griping about this! b:angry

why is it that everyone whines about flesh ream, when so many pets have it? my kowlin has it, same as a phoenix...people going to run for the hills when they see a kowlin? same move. my point is that its not the move, its that the phoenix is (as far as i know) the *only* pet that has maxed out stats all around. thats what makes it so tough, not the freaking move.

It is not so much the flesh ream bug nor the Phoenix people complain about. It is the combination of the two. As you said the phoenix has the highest stats of any pet and I believe even does full damage to ground targets. Add the flesh ream to that and it becomes overpowered. I wonder if it is possible to simply add a code that prevents a veno from adding flesh ream to a phoenix? That would prevent the much hated combination and maybe people will move on to something else to complain about.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

I believe the whole ground to air damage reduction applies to players only. Air pets arent reduced

Osiris - Dreamweaver

Just did a little self-experiment. A guidmate with a nix of my level (79) casted flesh ream on me.



Important nix stats:

PAtk: 3275
Flesh ream lvl 4: 180% of base PAtk over 9 seconds - 3 sec intervals

My physical def stat: 1876 (37%)

(unbuffed, poorly equipped - no physical belt/neck and no molded lvl 78 gear)


base attack = 3275
buff multiplier = 1.3 (30%)
Flesh Ream multiplier = 1.8 (180%)
Flesh Ream intervals = 3 (/ 3 sec)
Physical Defence multiplier = 1-0.37 = 0.63
PVP multiplier = X (supposed 0.25 / expected 1.0)

3275*1.3*1.8 = 7663.5 //entire damage over 9 seconds
(3275*1.3*1.8)/3 = 2554.5 //damage per tick

fully reduced damage = PvP-multiplier * physical def multiplier * damage per tick

1374 = X * 0.63 * 2554.5
x = 1374 / (0.63 * 2554.5)
x = 0.85377 //PvP multiplier

So according to my calculations the 75% doesn't work for this spell at all but its not completly unreduced (~14.6%). Strangely enough the PvP multiplier would be about 1 if the skill would do fire, metal or wood damage ((1374 / (0.56 * 2554.5) = 0.961) but i doubt that is the case.

Possible reasons for the weird PvP multiplier:

• I fail at maths (if so, please correct me)
• the skill does wood, metal or fire damage (doubtful)
• The damage reduction system contains factors that we are not aware of
• the PvP multiplier for this spell is meant to be 0.85377

Reenoa - Heavens Tear

I was wondering something so correct me if i am wrong. How good are venos at PVP (one on one and in tw) without this Flesh Ream advantage.

I have tried pving using my nix without using flesh ream. In tw/and out dueling.


I have to say were not that good without it.

Infact i say we are the weakest charr in PVP without it.

I am not saying Flesh ream to stay as it is. However it be good that a medium ground can be reached becuase venos arn't that good without it tbh.


Then again im just poor at PVP b:surrender

I would like Flesh Ream to become weaker. But not so weak we as pvpers become uselss except purging

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

Nova_ - Harshlands

Nayiro - Sanctuary wrote: »

From what I hear, it's the same on ALL version, you guys ever think that maybe, it's NOT bugged?

(Not QQ or Flaming BTW)

EDIT: Yes I DO have a Veno (lvl 52, working on a 'Nix =])

I didnt rread any of the **** b4 this but, theres no dmg reduction in PvP = Bugged. Everyone knows. Its been QQed about 32908140238509 times, enuff with these topics. Genies will come out soon and *kinda* fix it. GG /thread b:bye

RogueFox - Heavens Tear

Mr popo says the nix is like his parrot on a pirate, they are both epic




wat im proud of my work from turnin his large self into a drill sergent looking guy, lol, im actualy proud of my work lol

Gorgonia - Heavens Tear

Nova_ - Harshlands wrote: »

I didnt rread any of the **** b4 this but, theres no dmg reduction in PvP = Bugged. Everyone knows. Its been QQed about 32908140238509 times, enuff with these topics. Genies will come out soon and *kinda* fix it. GG /thread b:bye

wow, how did u make it to lvl90 in the new server? b:chuckleb:chuckle

Zhoelle - Sanctuary

Originally Posted by Nova_ - Harshlands View Post
I didnt rread any of the **** b4 this but, theres no dmg reduction in PvP = Bugged. Everyone knows. Its been QQed about 32908140238509 times, enuff with these topics. Genies will come out soon and *kinda* fix it. GG /thread

Gorgonia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

wow, how did u make it to lvl90 in the new server? b:chuckleb:chuckle

No kidding. An intelligent discussion so quickly goes dumb.

Nereila - Heavens Tear

Thanks omglazers and osiris for pointing out the flaws in my calcs.

Updated:
base attack = 4096
buff multiplier = 1.3
Flesh Ream multiplier = 2
Flesh Ream ticks = 3
PVP multiplier = .25

4096*1.3*2 = 10649.6 (total damage)
(4096*1.3*2)/3 = 3549.8 (damage per tick)
((4096*1.3*2)/3)*.25 = 887.4 (expected pvp tick)
(4096*1.3*2)*.25 = 2662.4 (total expected pvp damage)

So according to my calculations the 75% doesn't work for this spell at all but its not completly unreduced (~14.6%). Strangely enough the PvP multiplier would be about 1 if the skill would do fire, metal or wood damage ((1374 / (0.56 * 2554.5) = 0.961) but i doubt that is the case.

Ok, that's interesting. o.O

It's definitely not doing fire/metal/wood damage. Increase Defense mobs take considerably less damage and ironwood scarab affects the damage (only if the debuff happens before flesh ream, not after).

I don't see anything wrong with your calcs offhand. I guess it's either intentional or there's more going on than we know. O.o The only way to test is to do the experiment again with different variables and see if the 14.6 reduction holds up.

Any ...er volunteers? b:bye

Dioica - Sanctuary

I have some observations:

Damage over time skills are not affected by air/ground differences. Players do not like using damage over time skills, but if they did they would not be affected by this issue.

The most damaging player DoT skill which I know of is demon archer stormrage eagelon, which should do 2400 damage per tick (base). But no one gets this skill so we do not know if it is overpowered.

Defenses work differently against DoT than they do against real damage. And, some kinds of defenses get completely ignored.

I also have some questions:

Do players really get an automatic 75% damage reduction in PvP? Or do players tend to take less damage because they wear good armor where most monsters do not? If a level 95 player attacked a level 1 wizard in a duel, how much damage would they do and how does this compare with their damage against monsters?

Jasong - Harshlands

Dioica - Sanctuary wrote: »

I also have some questions:

Do players really get an automatic 75% damage reduction in PvP? Or do players tend to take less damage because they wear good armor where most monsters do not? If a level 95 player attacked a level 1 wizard in a duel, how much damage would they do and how does this compare with their damage against monsters?

o.O thats an iteresting thought i know when i frist started and i got to untamined city i was lvl 4 at the time a lvl 60 chanllenged me to a duel (stupid me said ok why not) it took him 4 hit to win (thats with no buffs on either of us) so thats all i know of it now im not sure what he had eccupid so not much help there i guess

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

I grabbed some numbers after attacking a couple level 33 bugs with a level 44 Sawfly. With any physical attack/skill the DR of the Back Stabbing Scorpion was 22% and the Tiger Striped Araneid was 28% while the DoT effect of Flesh Ream was 33% and 38% which means Bleed effects might use a different formula for determining damage, and yes, players do have an automatic reduction in PvP as do pets.

Bladecutter - Sanctuary

let me clarify the reductions:

First of all: theres a 75% reduction in PVP, if there wasnt, i would be hitting wizzys for 3k-4k... (they have same def as some mobs)

2nd: theres a dmg reduction when you attack a higher lvl target, if i say i know what it is i would be lying, but it is in pwdatabase

3rd: the armor dmg reduction applys in pvp After (someone confirm plz) the normal pvp reduction

4th: fly to ground dmg is 50% dmg reduction

EDIT: k, got it 3712, and the description, so, this is what it seems

3712+200% of 3712= 11136 (total dmg without reduction)
k
11136 to mobs with 0 phy def (lvl 1..)
lets see this
11136/3=3712... lol (per tick..)
(25x3712)/100=928 (thats for players with 0% defense)
my resistance is 63% with no buffs
so...
(928x37)/100= 343.36 (Wheres fly dmg reduction there?)
343.36/2= 171.68

i tested with a friend (higher than that dmg) and it was 1250.. so, thats the problem