Are you really "saving" by not teleporting?
Baritomaris - Sanctuary
Posts: 34 Arc User
I've read advice from several people -- both on these forums and elsewhere -- that suggest that you could/should save money by not teleporting.
But is this really good advice? Let's say that I'm in Etherblade, and I want to grind outside of Villiage of the Lost. Isn't it far more efficient to spend the 17,000 coins to teleport there?
Sure, that's a hefty teleportation fee, but a veno will make that money back in a few minute of grinding in no time, as that's the NPC price for about 5 DQ items.
So maybe other classes with high repair costs might need to save money by not teleporting, but it seems to me that venos actually lose money by not teleporting. Does anyone else here agree with me, or am I totally off my rocker?
But is this really good advice? Let's say that I'm in Etherblade, and I want to grind outside of Villiage of the Lost. Isn't it far more efficient to spend the 17,000 coins to teleport there?
Sure, that's a hefty teleportation fee, but a veno will make that money back in a few minute of grinding in no time, as that's the NPC price for about 5 DQ items.
So maybe other classes with high repair costs might need to save money by not teleporting, but it seems to me that venos actually lose money by not teleporting. Does anyone else here agree with me, or am I totally off my rocker?
Post edited by Baritomaris - Sanctuary on
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What teleport path are you taking that it costs 15k coins to go from ether to lost? :O
I agree on this in some cases. If I can go 70-100% of the distance I need to for 5k or less, I do it. Sometimes I'll do weaver or streams for 8k cost, but not often. It really depends on what you plan to do after you get to the location.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The family is a haven in a heartless world.
Once a Guardian, Always a Guardian. Element: Fire.0 -
I just teleport between the 3 cities Etherblade, Plume and City of the Lost. If I wanna go to Archosaur, I teleport to Wellspring Village and fly from there. You can teleport between the small villages until level 20 because they are too far away from each other. After level 20 the villages you discover cost 1k to teleport.0
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Hisuna - Sanctuary wrote: »What teleport path are you taking that it costs 15k coins to go from ether to lost? :O
I agree on this in some cases. If I can go 70-100% of the distance I need to for 5k or less, I do it. Sometimes I'll do weaver or streams for 8k cost, but not often. It really depends on what you plan to do after you get to the location.
haha, oops! Checked my math, and it's wrong, as you noticed. =p It's more like 3k to Arch, 8k to dream, 6k to Villiage of the Lost. Corrected it above.0 -
The only time I use the archo -> weaver port is for LEGIONS! Rest of the time I use the ~1k teleports and use cube to get to archo.I was early taught to work as well as play,
My life has been one long, happy holiday;
Full of work and full of play-
I dropped the worry on the way-
And God was good to me everyday.0 -
I have seen a LOT of people say that you can gain all of that coin back from teleporting. But that depends on whether or not you consider time valuable.
Yes, you can teleport and then gain that money back grinding. Or you can walk/fly and not spend that money at all. You have lost a few minute IRL but IG you have saved a few grand. You just have to play the game a few minutes longer and I personally see nothing wrong with that.
Now let's say you walk to your destination. Along the way you will likely find all kinds of opportunities to grind and gain more coin. So, not only are you saving the coin that you would spend on teleporting, you are also making extra coin along the way.
This sounds like a complete no brainer to me.
teleport and spend 3000
spend a few minutes grinding and gain 3000
you break even
Or
walk for a few minutes and grind along the way and gain 3000
If you want money, walk. If you don't care about money in the least but want to get quests done quickly, teleport.
Me? The only time I teleport is if I am really needing to get some sleep but I want to finish a quest before going to bed. Otherwise, I walk with my Blademaster and fly with my Archer.0 -
Baritomaris - Sanctuary wrote: »haha, oops! Checked my math, and it's wrong, as you noticed. =p It's more like 3k to Arch, 8k to dream, 6k to Villiage of the Lost. Corrected it above.
no, nevermind, I read it wrong. I was thinking that you were saying it costs 15k to go from ether to the city of the lost, not village of the lost. I'm sure you can see why I was like wtf? village of the lost makes sense though. I probably wouldn't spend the full amount. To me it seems easier to go to arch through the cube (free), then hidden orchid for 3k, spending only 3k and flying the rest, saving you more than half and covering over 70% of the trip. I think it's more about smart teleporting than never teleporting at all.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The family is a haven in a heartless world.
Once a Guardian, Always a Guardian. Element: Fire.0 -
I've been telling people this for ages and still everybody runs/flies. There's an opportunity cost associated with running/flying which usually far exceeds the teleport fee.Baritomaris - Sanctuary wrote: »Sure, that's a hefty teleportation fee, but a veno will make that money back in a few minute of grinding in no time, as that's the NPC price for about 5 DQ items.
Take the run from Archo to Silver Pool as an example. I pick this route because it's a relatively short distance and fairly expensive teleport (3k) - it favors the running method. Two people take this route. One runs, one teleports. I grind about 150k/hr at Silver Pool, or about 2.5k per minute.
0 min: Runner leaves Archo, Teleporter arrives at Silver Pool and starts grinding.
2 min: Runner arrives at Silver Pool and starts grinding.
Runner: zero cost, made zero money grinding.
Teleporter: 3k teleport cost, made 5k grinding. -3k + 5k = 2k
The teleporter is 2k richer than the runner. And because everyone seems to ask this for some strange reason:
5 min: Runner has spent 3 min grinding and has 7.5k, teleporter has spent 5 min grinding and has 12.5k.
Runner: zero cost, made 7.5k
Teleporter, 3k cost, made 12.5k. -3k + 12.5k = 9.5k
The teleporter is still 2k richer, and on average always will be richer no matter how long the two grind.
That's an invalid comparison. You're comparing playing 55 minutes teleporting to playing 60 minutes running. If you can play the game a few minutes longer running, you can play the game a few minutes longer teleporting. In an equal-time comparison, teleporting still makes more money.ChiaoLin - Dreamweaver wrote: »Yes, you can teleport and then gain that money back grinding. Or you can walk/fly and not spend that money at all. You have lost a few minute IRL but IG you have saved a few grand. You just have to play the game a few minutes longer and I personally see nothing wrong with that.
There's an assumption that the reason you want to get to the destination is that there's something particularly valuable there. Maybe it's a good grind spot. Maybe you need to get there for a quest. So by definition the destination has to make more money than anything you can gain along the route. Otherwise there's no point going to the destination and hence there's no reason to even consider the question of teleport cost - just kill stuff along that route and make more money.Now let's say you walk to your destination. Along the way you will likely find all kinds of opportunities to grind and gain more coin. So, not only are you saving the coin that you would spend on teleporting, you are also making extra coin along the way.
Also, any time you spend grinding along the route is time you're not traveling. So regardless of how many "opportunities" you find along the route, the time spent traveling (and not spent taking advantage of opportunities) is the same. That is, finding 10 minutes of opportunities along a travel route is the same thing as just reaching the destination and spending 10 minutes of grinding there. Probably worse actually because like I said, you probably want to get to the destination because it's better than anything you can find along the route.
The only "advantage" running has is that you will have more coin at a given level. But this comes at a cost of leveling more slowly. When I suggested dying to to lose exp so they have more spirit at a given level, people laughed at me. Yet this is precisely what they're doing by running - gaining exp more slowly (same net result as losing exp) so they have more coin at a given level.
e.g. When you reach level 30, if you ran you may have 500k in the bank whereas if you teleported you might only have 450k in the bank. However, by teleporting you level faster. So after (say) 100 hours of play, the runner is level 30 with 500k in the bank, while the teleporter is level 32 with 550k in the bank.
Except for very short and very expensive routes, teleporting is almost always the better option. The only time I run when there's a teleport available is if I need to go afk (bathroom break, cook something, etc), or if I'm going to be waiting at the destination for all the non-teleporting squad members to arrive, or if I know there's something along the short route that makes it worth my time (e.g. the material and herb mines on the road from Broken Bridge Village to FB39).0 -
But that is assuming that you care about how fast you level. I personally don't. I would rather level slower and have more cash. Again, that puts a value on "time." I take time completely out of the equation, because it doesn't matter to me.
Runner leaves Archo for Silver Pool stopping to kill things along the way. Each kill brings coin. He arrives at Silver Pool richer than when he started. He also has gained XP and SP.
Teleporter leaves Archo for Silver Pool and pays 3k.
The Runner will arrive at his destination 3k+kills richer than the teleporter.
Which one saved money? The runner.
Now, if time matters to you then yes, you are correct. But if time does not matter, then the runner makes a lot more coin than the teleporter.
I used to take mass transit to work every day IRL. I spent $60 a month for transit passes. I could have driven to work and arrived much earlier saving me an hour each way. But the gasoline would have cost me $300 a month. I was much happier having the extra $250 in my pocket on pay day.
To me, teleporting just simply doesn't make any since, unless you are trying to level quickly.0 -
I have a lot of time to play and a spurred mount so for me I save money by not teleing around. But for other people with like 1-3 hours to play and no mount then teleing would actually save you money.It's not my job to shut you down on a suggestion. It's a pleasure, though.0
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No. You level slower and you have less cash. Basically if you run/fly a lot, you spend a lot of time in the game doing nothing. Not leveling, not earning cash.ChiaoLin - Dreamweaver wrote: »But that is assuming that you care about how fast you level. I personally don't. I would rather level slower and have more cash.
Only if the teleporter stands around and waits for the runner to arrive. If the teleporter does whatever he was going to do by going to Silver Pool (presumably grind), he will end up ahead of the runner in all cases. By the time the runner arrives, the teleporter has managed to gain far more money than the runner. In the time the runner spent killing stuff and gaining 5k, the teleporter was also killing stuff and gaining 6k (because presumably the drops are better at the destination). In the time the runner was actually running, the teleporter was killing stuff and gaining another 5k. The teleporter wins in every case.Runner leaves Archo for Silver Pool stopping to kill things along the way. Each kill brings coin. He arrives at Silver Pool richer than when he started. He also has gained XP and SP.
Teleporter leaves Archo for Silver Pool and pays 3k.
The Runner will arrive at his destination 3k+kills richer than the teleporter.
Which one saved money? The runner.
You had $250 more in your pocket on pay day. But you've wasted 5*4 = 20 hours of your time doing nothing but sitting in public transit. You could've done something with that time, like gotten a second part-time job, or relaxing at home, or spending time with the kids.I used to take mass transit to work every day IRL. I spent $60 a month for transit passes. I could have driven to work and arrived much earlier saving me an hour each way. But the gasoline would have cost me $300 a month. I was much happier having the extra $250 in my pocket on pay day.To me, teleporting just simply doesn't make any since, unless you are trying to level quickly.
It has nothing to do with leveling quickly. It's about actually doing more stuff in the time you spend playing the game. If you play 2 hours a night, would you rather spend 1.5 hours actually playing and 0.5 hours staring at your screen while your character runs/flies? Or would you rather spend those entire 2 hours actually doing stuff?0 -
Solandri, your first comparison about the Arch >> Silverpool Teleport vs running was bad in that the teleporter actually has 6k in teleport fees since they always take the teleport meaning the runner will end up netting more than they teleporter since the teleporter needs to make 6k just to make up for the teleport fees. You also never took into account the runner using their free Town Portal spell if it isn't on CD.
Your argument against using public transportation is simply fail on the grounds it used two hours each way when the poster specifically stated one hour each way, then combined the two hours each way into a single block, and then made the claim it was enough for a part time job because it worked out to 20 hours a week when the truth is that it was, in fact, in one hour blocks with ten blocks of time which isn't even plausible for considering a part time job.
They saved ~$250 a month, and they were better off financially than they were spending ~$300 a month on gasoline.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
although it would be more efficient time wise, money wise it is not. invest in a faster flying mount or ground one.0
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If you want to take into account two-way transport, e.g. Archo -> SP -> Archo, then you need to factor in the extra time the runner takes running back to Archo. Again, the runner now takes 2 more minutes than the teleporter, and at my 2.5k/min grind rate, the teleport ends up being cheaper.OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »Solandri, your first comparison about the Arch >> Silverpool Teleport vs running was bad in that the teleporter actually has 6k in teleport fees since they always take the teleport meaning the runner will end up netting more than they teleporter since the teleporter needs to make 6k just to make up for the teleport fees. You also never took into account the runner using their free Town Portal spell if it isn't on CD.
e.g. If both people leave Archo to grind at Silver Pool with the agreement that they'll return to Archo in an hour:
Runner: 2 minutes spent running Archo->SP, 2 minutes spent running SP->Archo. Total travel time = 4 minutes (actually closer to 5 but I'm trying to favor the runner all I can), 56 minutes grinding.
Total cost = 0
Total income = 2.5k/min * 56 min = 140k.
Time spent = 60 min.
Net profit = 140k.
Teleporter: 0 minutes spent in transit, 60 minutes grinding.
Total cost = 6k
Total income = 2.5k/min * 60 min = 150k.
Time spent = 60 min.
Net profit = 144k.
And town portal at Silver Pool will take you to Silver Pool, not to Archo.
First, I want to make clear, I am *not* against public transportation. I am all for it. But its advantage is because transport has externalized costs (pollution, dependence on gas imports) which are borne by all of society. It's one of those Tragedy of the Commons cases where the best choice for the individual (driving a car) is not the best choice for society (using public transport).Your argument against using public transportation is simply fail on the grounds it used two hours each way when the poster specifically stated one hour each way, then combined the two hours each way into a single block, and then made the claim it was enough for a part time job because it worked out to 20 hours a week when the truth is that it was, in fact, in one hour blocks with ten blocks of time which isn't even plausible for considering a part time job.
None of these are a factor on the issue of teleporting in the game. There is no pollution, there is no dependence on foreign oil. The only factor that matters is what's best for the individual.
Second, I'm not sure where you are getting all these details about the OP's work schedule. All he said was "I could have driven to work and arrived much earlier saving me an hour each way." I actually misread that as "an hour each day." Which actually makes the comparison even worse for him, since it now means 10*4 = 40 hours a month wasted sitting in public transport, not 20.
That's only because their workplace requires 8 hours of work, no more, no less. He doesn't have the option to work 10 hours if he shows up early and leaves late. Or only work 6 hours if he spends an extra hour each way in public transport.They saved ~$250 a month, and they were better off financially than they were spending ~$300 a month on gasoline.
This isn't true in the game. If you play for an hour, by teleporting you can be earning coin and exp for those full 60 minutes. By running/flying you're wasting time not earning coin or exp. In most cases, the extra coin you can make in the time saved by teleporting exceeds the teleport fee. The additional enjoyment of the game (because you're actually playing, not staring at your screen doing nothing) is just gravy.
I have nothing against running/flying. Heck, I'm flying right now while I type up this post. But IMHO in the vast majority of cases, it's a huge misnomer that not teleporting saves you money. It costs you money, but slows down your leveling even more. The leveling slowdown exceeds the loss in money, so it creates the illusion that you have more money (i.e. you have more coin at a given level).0 -
Wow this is b:laugh very very funy....
On one hand we've got this guy wasting money teleporting for a 2 min trek...
The other side walking there... Just picking up the mats along the way can pay for the "teleport fee" Netting the walker significant profit.
As to the leveling faster bit. I hardly ever teleport... (I was lvl 27 when I joined this site, and I out leveled everyone I know) I do as one person said Smarter Teleporting. Spend 1 k to get to somewhere sure spend 6k+ Not happening regularly unless the time spent IRL is more important(I AFK alot while flying to destinations doing things like reading these forums, etc.) Wait till the world quest then we'll see how often you promote teleporting everywhere b:chuckle
As someone suggested so will I get a tome/mount (land) or just a fast set of wings/sword/airmount in the end WQ you'll want the air one maxed so it's more economical going that route.
As to the Town Portal suggestion.. that cuts return time in 1/3... since it will put you in the closest city. So you walk till arch is closest and wammo you've saved yourself some time.0 -
I think you are making an assumption that the time I spent in mass transit was wasted. I assure you it was not. The time was spent doing many things I enjoy, reading, writing, researching..... If I had been driving I would have wasted the time driving, plus wasted the money on gasoline. Actually, I would likely have had to spend more money on blood pressure medicine because of the frustrations involved in driving the interstate in Southern California. LOL
However, this is not a discussion about mass transit, I simply used that as an example to make my point. And my point is still valid. In fact, you consistently support my point by including time in your calculations. I assure you that when I play, time is not a factor. Therefore it is not correct for me to include time when calculating.
My point still stands. If I walk/fly to a location I will arrive at that location with far more coin than I will if I teleport. I usually fly to a high enough altitude to avoid all obstacles, alt-click my destination and then spend time doing other things that are important to me, just like I used to do on the train.
Yes, you make more money in any given time period than I do. But again, this is not about time. I am not limited to any amount of time. It is about the amount of money spent and earned. It's basic economics. You get money faster than I do, but in the end, I wind up with more than you do, simply because I have not spent and you have.0 -
Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »If you want to take into account two-way transport, e.g. Archo -> SP -> Archo, then you need to factor in the extra time the runner takes running back to Archo. Again, the runner now takes 2 more minutes than the teleporter, and at my 2.5k/min grind rate, the teleport ends up being cheaper.
e.g. If both people leave Archo to grind at Silver Pool with the agreement that they'll return to Archo in an hour:
Runner: 2 minutes spent running Archo->SP, 2 minutes spent running SP->Archo. Total travel time = 4 minutes (actually closer to 5 but I'm trying to favor the runner all I can), 56 minutes grinding.
Total cost = 0
Total income = 2.5k/min * 56 min = 140k.
Time spent = 60 min.
Net profit = 140k.
Teleporter: 0 minutes spent in transit, 60 minutes grinding.
Total cost = 6k
Total income = 2.5k/min * 60 min = 150k.
Time spent = 60 min.
Net profit = 144k.
And town portal at Silver Pool will take you to Silver Pool, not to Archo.
Fine. You're wrong.
Travel time for the Teleporter: 30 seconds.
Reason: time to get the teleport master to teleport you, and then to get to the first mob and start killing.
Assumption: you can grind 2.5k at Silver Pool per minute (your number, not mine).
Assumption: you can grind 1k between Arch and Silver Pool per minute (random DQ/matts/holy hell, who knows since you're killing stuff/mining nodes)
The teleporter will net 142,750 after teleports, and the runner will net 144k. If you assume that it takes 0 seconds to get to and use the Teleport Master then both will make 144k in an hour.
yay me! b:pleased
In light of this, the rest is irrelevant.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Budika - Sanctuary wrote: »Wow this is b:laugh very very funy....
On one hand we've got this guy wasting money teleporting for a 2 min trek...
The other side walking there... Just picking up the mats along the way can pay for the "teleport fee" Netting the walker significant profit.
As to the leveling faster bit. I hardly ever teleport... (I was lvl 27 when I joined this site, and I out leveled everyone I know) I do as one person said Smarter Teleporting. Spend 1 k to get to somewhere sure spend 6k+ Not happening regularly unless the time spent IRL is more important(I AFK alot while flying to destinations doing things like reading these forums, etc.) Wait till the world quest then we'll see how often you promote teleporting everywhere b:chuckle
As someone suggested so will I get a tome/mount (land) or just a fast set of wings/sword/airmount in the end WQ you'll want the air one maxed so it's more economical going that route.
As to the Town Portal suggestion.. that cuts return time in 1/3... since it will put you in the closest city. So you walk till arch is closest and wammo you've saved yourself some time.
I have a lvl 86 mage, I can tell you that I can make the 3k required for the teleport back in less than 1 minute. I'd gladly spend 3k to teleport to Hidden orchid, and If I wanna grind undines, I'd pay 8k to teleport to thousand streams in a heartbeat. The only reason I'd fly is if I had to go afk for a long time not playing the game. When I'm on the comp, I'm there to play
Also note that me grinding for 1 hour can pay for about 50 teleports to hidden orchid.0 -
Budika - Sanctuary wrote: »Wait till the world quest then we'll see how often you promote teleporting everywhere b:chuckle
I've only done WQ for a few days. But I have absolutely no trouble grinding out the money required for WQ so far. Teleporting everywhere in WQ costs more than 100k, but then again, it's a breeze for me to make 100k in an hour's worth of grinding.
A lot of this probably class dependent. I notice you're a barbarian, so you probably have high repair costs and grind slowly. Venos have low repair costs and grind fast. Since a veno can make far more coins/hr than a barb, it might be better for the veno to teleport and the barb to fly/run/ride.0 -
Teleport save time yes, if you were going somewhere important.
if you just lazy and dont even want to setup autopath to fly the place then its costly, since lazy people dont want to do anything = no income = no progress.
at high lvl fly from arch to like immolation camp, sirry wine camp or ancient wall.
thats like 10 min+ fly.
now in 10 min can you make back the coins ? yes and you get exp too. wow0 -
I'm totally hardcore,I tele everywhere,fear me.Quit 100%...and surprised my forum account wasn't banned...yet0
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And those are all perfectly valid reasons to take mass transit. As I said earlier in this thread, teleporting is not always better; and in fact I took the time to fly while I was posting because I knew I would be spending several minutes occupied with typing up my post. You have to be smart about choosing when to teleport or fly. If you're in no rush or have other things to do away from the game, then flying is fine. But if there's nothing else to do, teleporting is quicker, cheaper, and doesn't waste your time.ChiaoLin - Dreamweaver wrote: »I think you are making an assumption that the time I spent in mass transit was wasted. I assure you it was not. The time was spent doing many things I enjoy, reading, writing, researching.....
And that is a perfectly valid way to play the game. But for most people, time is an important factor (they seem to want to level as quickly as possible). So for most people, teleporting is actually the better and cheaper option.However, this is not a discussion about mass transit, I simply used that as an example to make my point. And my point is still valid. In fact, you consistently support my point by including time in your calculations. I assure you that when I play, time is not a factor. Therefore it is not correct for me to include time when calculating.
Again, you're completely ignoring the fact that the teleporter arrives before you do. That's the whole point of teleporting - to arrive quicker so you can get on to doing other stuff sooner. If you don't care about your time, then of course there's no point to teleporting. But that's not because teleporting is worse, it's because you don't care about your time. From your point of view, it wouldn't matter if you flew straight from Archo to Silver Pool; it would be all the same to you if you flew from Archo to Etherblade to Silver Pool because you don't care about time. Teleporting is not the definitive factor of your argument.My point still stands. If I walk/fly to a location I will arrive at that location with far more coin than I will if I teleport.
Sigh. You're missing fundamental concepts about time and rates, like the person who thinks if you drive to work at 20 mph in the morning, and drive back at 40 mph in the afternoon, that you averaged 30 mph. You actually averaged 26.7 mph because time is an inseparable component of these things. Amounts and rates are fundamentally linked via time (one is the time derivative of the other).Yes, you make more money in any given time period than I do. But again, this is not about time. I am not limited to any amount of time. It is about the amount of money spent and earned. It's basic economics. You get money faster than I do, but in the end, I wind up with more than you do, simply because I have not spent and you have.
Let's take my cat shop for example. Other cat shops I've seen offer to buy hay at 3k and sell it at 7k. They make 4k per hay sold. My shop buys it at 4k and sells it at 6k. I only make 2k per hay sold. But I make a heckuva lot more money than other cat shops. How can that be since I'm only making half as much profit per hay sold? To use your terms, I spent 1k more per hay than they did. I'm earning 1k less than they are. How is it possible that I'm making more money than them?
It's because of time. In the same amount of time that they buy and sell 50 hay, I probably buy and sell around 250. The rate at which I buy and sell hay is so much higher than the other shop's, that it more that offsets the per item profit margin advantage they have. Time is a fundamental part of "basic economics". You cannot ignore time entirely because there's a rate at which you grind money, a rate at which you have to spend it (repairs, pots, skills, etc). It's an inherent, unignorable consideration in these things.
You know, the great irony in all this is that I don't really care about in-game time either. I'm like you and don't care how quickly I level or make money. I don't do crazy stone or justice quests, and from what I hear I doubt I'll be doing world quests. In fact I just lost 35% of level 67 last night dying 15 times while exploring FB69. I don't care about those things - to me, the experience of exploring and learning about FB69 was much more valuable than the time that lost exp represented. So I completely understand and can empathize with your point of view.
However, the OP's question was "do you save money by running/flying instead of teleporting?" Given the way most people play, the answer is a resounding no.
You keep trying to add on extra time for the teleporter to do things without giving the runnier the same extra time penalties. The runner doesn't magically appears at the first mob while the teleporter has to run there. They both have to cover the distance from SP to the first mob, so neither has an advantage in that regard. The teleporter has to run to the teleport master, but the runner has to run for the exit of Archo, cross the river, then run around the terrain. The 2 min (2 min 26 sec actually) time I gave was for flying from the W. Archo banker with a +2.5 speed mount to the SP banker. Running from the W. Archo banker to the nearest teleport master only takes about 10 sec so the numbers I gave are still skewed to favor the runner.OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »Fine. You're wrong.
Travel time for the Teleporter: 30 seconds.
Reason: time to get the teleport master to teleport you, and then to get to the first mob and start killing.
Yup. And that's NPCing everything. Like I said, I was trying to favor the runner as much as I could in the comparison. If I cat shop it, I make over 300k/hr, or 5k per min. According to the testing I did, for most destinations teleporting just absolutely crushes running/flying in terms of money made. You have to spend money to make money.Assumption: you can grind 2.5k at Silver Pool per minute (your number, not mine).0 -
Old folks like me prefer flying because it gives us a good opportunity to take bathroom breaks. b:laugh"Sorry, we don't need a barbarian. We have a frog."0
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Lol this is really lame... Okay, personally agree with smarter teleport cause hey 5k is really a lot you know... Sometimes I would leave it on afk flying and I would be reading the forums. Or doing some other things. Teleporting everywhere you go is really going to take a toll on you later. For example if a person teleports every single place he goes, including near village and ****. Lets say the place would be like my lvl places, tusk town and stuff, 5k, to and fro. Sooner or later, all these teleport fees would add up from when you started teleporting from lvl 1 on. The price isnt small.
Another thing about the guy talking about how teleing actually saves time and lvl faster and earn you profit. One thing you dont know is. Once those extra cash adds up at the higher lvls, you will realise that the money could actually do you some good.0 -
On the time thing, let me give an example you may understand.
You are out in Tusk helping a friend, and you see an announcement for a Wraith Attack by Thousand Streams.
You have two options. Fly there or use teleporter.
If you fly there, it will take you 15-20 minutes at least. If you teleport it will cost you 20k in teleporter fees one way.
The Wrath even lasts around 20 minutes.
So you can fly there, not spend a pennie, and if you are lucky kill a couple of wraiths before even is over. Or you can spend 20k in teleporter, get there in under 1 minute, kill for 19 minutes, and make around 300k in drops. Once you subtract the 40k (for round trip), you still have a profit of 260k while the flyer has no expenses, but also makes no coins. On top of that, he has to fly back to tusk, blowing another 20 minutes.
Also a bit of information that you may not be aware of.
If you afk while flying, and the PWI window is not the active window (as in you are reading the forums or shopping on ebay), your flying speed is cut in half. So lets say you use a level 30 free flying mount. Your regular speed of 5.5 m/s (all races have a base flying speed of 5.0, the aerogears will add a variable to this base speed) gets cut in half to 2.75 m/s, so your travel time will, in fact, double.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
IceJazmin, different situations call for different usage. Yours is just one of the usage that requires instant teleport. But just to lvl faster and blowing tons of money just isnt worth it. But by spending a little and then travelling a little actually saves you money and a little time. Is like a moderationg between saving all the money and fly or wasting money teleporting.0
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Averian - Lost City wrote: »IceJazmin, different situations call for different usage. Yours is just one of the usage that requires instant teleport. But just to lvl faster and blowing tons of money just isnt worth it. But by spending a little and then travelling a little actually saves you money and a little time. Is like a moderationg between saving all the money and fly or wasting money teleporting.
I agree with that, just giving a clear example of time being money.
My approach is, when I first log in, I will fly to where ever I need to go, since I will be getting flooded with pms and chatting in guild window. That gives me a few minutes to talk to people, figure out what is going on and make plans. Since I would be standing around one of places, not killing while chatting, it makes sense to use the time to just fly to places.
Once I am done "catching up" I mostly teleport, unless it is a quick trip, like form orchic back to arch or one of those less than 2 minute rides.
One exception, is if I am in arch and I need to go to Village of Naut. It is a 3 minute fly, from arch, but if you teleport you need to go to DWP, than Village of the Lost, than Sanctuary, than Village of Naut. Makes no sense to spend 24k one way, and still take 2 minutes to get there.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »You keep trying to add on extra time for the teleporter to do things without giving the runnier the same extra time penalties. The runner doesn't magically appears at the first mob while the teleporter has to run there. They both have to cover the distance from SP to the first mob, so neither has an advantage in that regard. The teleporter has to run to the teleport master, but the runner has to run for the exit of Archo, cross the river, then run around the terrain. The 2 min (2 min 26 sec actually) time I gave was for flying from the W. Archo banker with a +2.5 speed mount to the SP banker. Running from the W. Archo banker to the nearest teleport master only takes about 10 sec so the numbers I gave are still skewed to favor the runner.
You never once mentioned that your "runner" was not running, but "flying".
I will also mention that you keep adding extra time for the person teleporting. IF they both start at the banker, it will take the teleporter ~30 seconds to go from the banker, to the Teleport Master, and use the Teleport Master to get to Silverpool (I have a stop watch installed on my sidebar). Further, the "Flyer" only needs 1.77 minutes, or 1 minute 46 seconds to fly to the closest point and use the Town Portal spell to get to Silver Pool.
Total difference when not skewing your numbers to favor the teleporter? A grand total of: 175 coins.
The only time you can claim the teleporter gets to use the full alloted time for grinding is when they are standing right next to the Master Teleporter. If they do not start there, then your numbers should reflect that which is what I was doing, and I was apparently being generous.
I'm going to point out that not every class will end up with the same amount after an hour due to not every class can kill at the same rate, and it probably depends on what mobs are being killed. Some classes can chain kill for hours on end without stopping while others, not so much.
As you get higher in level, the costs don't matter as much on those short hops, but at the lower levels the costs can matter greatly, and if you craft your own gear/use apoth remedies there are many times in which taking the time to travel to your destination has more intrinsic value than teleporting there. You can throw all the numbers about drops, NPC vendor value, what you want to claim you can get for them etc, but, in the end, the only thing that actually matters is what the player values more: min/maxing everything and taking the game seriously, or simply playing the game to relax because their real job is non-stop go-go-go.
It needs to be pointed out that there will be times when teleporting is better, and there will be times when not-teleporting is better, and it is on a case-by-case basis.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Baritomaris - Sanctuary wrote: »I've read advice from several people -- both on these forums and elsewhere -- that suggest that you could/should save money by not teleporting.
But is this really good advice? Let's say that I'm in Etherblade, and I want to grind outside of Villiage of the Lost. Isn't it far more efficient to spend the 17,000 coins to teleport there?
Sure, that's a hefty teleportation fee, but a veno will make that money back in a few minute of grinding in no time, as that's the NPC price for about 5 DQ items.
So maybe other classes with high repair costs might need to save money by not teleporting, but it seems to me that venos actually lose money by not teleporting. Does anyone else here agree with me, or am I totally off my rocker?
well if u think about it this way, u could of saved all that money for something else, like new wepons, etc... thats why ever since lv 30 i've been flying everywhere (even though i need to buy a new mount b:chuckle) to save money[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
A good moderator should:
- Have the computer skills necessary to handle forum-related tasks (Web skills, basic programming)
- Be patient to handle all sorts of requests
- Be level-headed to keep discussions and some petty squabbles in check.b:cool0 -
This is why this topic drives me nuts. People keep thinking of teleporting as "wasting money" when it's not.Averian - Lost City wrote: »But by spending a little and then travelling a little actually saves you money and a little time. Is like a moderationg between saving all the money and fly or wasting money teleporting.
Take two characters and play them the same way for 100 hours. One teleports, one runs/flies.
At the end of 100 hours, the teleporter will be higher level and have more coin. This is simply due to the fact that for (say) 5 of those 100 hours, the runner/flier was not earning exp or coin.
If you look back to when they were the same level (e.g. the teleporter at say 95 hours vs the runner/flier at 100 hours), then the teleporter has less money. But this is illusionary wealth because of the difference in time played. If you take the 100-hour-old teleporter and suicide him a few dozen times, he will be the same level as the 100-hour-old runner/flier, but still have more money.
It's like trying to fill a bucket of water with a hole in it. Everyone is so concerned with the rate water is running out the hole ("teleporting makes the hole bigger!") that they're forgetting that the rate water is poured into the bucket can vary too (teleporting puts water/money into the bucket faster).
Read through my posts. I've tried to say running/flying every time I've mentioned that option. It's unwieldy so I may have missed it a few times, but I never once tried to trick anyone into thinking I was talking about running when I meant flying, or vice versa.OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »You never once mentioned that your "runner" was not running, but "flying".
For the Archo-SP run in particular, I tried it both running and flying and concluded flying was just quicker and easier. When I run it, the direction changes, water crossings, plus the detours to follow the shoreline (so the mount doesn't disappear) and go through the Archo entrances just make it not worth it. Flying the route at speed ends up better than running on my 10 m/s mount. This includes all sorts of tricks like jumping off the end of the pier so I don't have to go around that corner of the lake, crossing the river at a right angle and jumping out of the water to fly, etc.
Yes I do crazy stuff like this. That's just my personality. When I have to do the same thing over and over, I like to optimize it to minimize the time/money spent. It's why I do things like run tests on how much aggro the pet skills generate - so I can optimize my pet skills.0 -
Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »This is why this topic drives me nuts. People keep thinking of teleporting as "wasting money" when it's not.
Take two characters and play them the same way for 100 hours. One teleports, one runs/flies.
At the end of 100 hours, the teleporter will be higher level and have more coin. This is simply due to the fact that for (say) 5 of those 100 hours, the runner/flier was not earning exp or coin.
If you look back to when they were the same level (e.g. the teleporter at say 95 hours vs the runner/flier at 100 hours), then the teleporter has less money. But this is illusionary wealth because of the difference in time played. If you take the 100-hour-old teleporter and suicide him a few dozen times, he will be the same level as the 100-hour-old runner/flier, but still have more money.
It's like trying to fill a bucket of water with a hole in it. Everyone is so concerned with the rate water is running out the hole ("teleporting makes the hole bigger!") that they're forgetting that the rate water is poured into the bucket can vary too (teleporting puts water/money into the bucket faster).
Read through my posts. I've tried to say running/flying every time I've mentioned that option. It's unwieldy so I may have missed it a few times, but I never once tried to trick anyone into thinking I was talking about running when I meant flying, or vice versa.
For the Archo-SP run in particular, I tried it both running and flying and concluded flying was just quicker and easier. When I run it, the direction changes, water crossings, plus the detours to follow the shoreline (so the mount doesn't disappear) and go through the Archo entrances just make it not worth it. Flying the route at speed ends up better than running on my 10 m/s mount. This includes all sorts of tricks like jumping off the end of the pier so I don't have to go around that corner of the lake, crossing the river at a right angle and jumping out of the water to fly, etc.
Yes I do crazy stuff like this. That's just my personality. When I have to do the same thing over and over, I like to optimize it to minimize the time/money spent. It's why I do things like run tests on how much aggro the pet skills generate - so I can optimize my pet skills.
Don't you need to also calculate the cost of the land mount? You mentioned a 10m/s mount, I am very sure you cannot run that fast unless you spend 2-3mil up front to get the mount, so I think at we need to calculate the cost of the mount and amortize it over the duration of the experiment, same if you use a flying mount that is not the free one. Those are costs you have, so if you want to compare to the teleporter, you need to take those into account.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0
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