Heavy mage

_Blackjack_ - Lost City
_Blackjack_ - Lost City Posts: 59 Arc User
edited May 2009 in Wizard
Someone brought something to my attention, if you take a simple LA build take some points away from dex and add them to str, you can have heavy armor only a grade or so lower than your level. Add our buff and you get more phys def than LA and you can still wear robes and equip your levels weapon. I see no reason to not do this build over LA other than a small change in crit percentage. If a level 50 mage used this build, they would be able to equip level 40 heavy armor and take less phys damage than a BM or barb.
Post edited by _Blackjack_ - Lost City on
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Comments

  • Chocooo - Lost City
    Chocooo - Lost City Posts: 238 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    I don't think a heavy mage can equip the same level's weapon.
  • Wolfgang - Dreamweaver
    Wolfgang - Dreamweaver Posts: 438 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    I had a friend that was a heavy mage. Not sure if he still plays 'cause I switched servers....
  • Mikel_oru - Sanctuary
    Mikel_oru - Sanctuary Posts: 610 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Hmm switching between robes and heavy armor doesn't sound bad to me at all, Venos tend to do that but you would need 2 sets of armor and that could prove quite expensive and troublesome.
    Chocooo - Lost City wrote: »
    I don't think a heavy mage can equip the same level's weapon.

    As long as you keep the min requirement of 3mag per lvl they can and the way he put it that build can prove viable.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Rinnve - Lost City
    Rinnve - Lost City Posts: 473 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Wolfgang - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    If a level 50 mage used this build, they would be able to equip level 40 heavy armor and take less phys damage than a BM or barb.
    Yes, it is possible, but with some effort 'cause you will not able to equip weapon for your level if your armor does not have some nice stats (the best is -requirement, +str +dex +mag are also good). There is a topic in venos forum discussing heavy veno, stats build and equipment issues are just the same. Purpose of heavy mage, though, is completely different: hardcore solo aoe leveling.
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  • Rinnve - Lost City
    Rinnve - Lost City Posts: 473 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Mikel_oru - Sanctuary wrote: »
    As long as you keep the min requirement of 3mag per lvl they can and the way he put it that build can prove viable.
    The trick is that it's impossible to keep 3mag per lvl and wear adequate HA.
    --
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  • _Blackjack_ - Lost City
    _Blackjack_ - Lost City Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Mikel_oru - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Hmm switching between robes and heavy armor doesn't sound bad to me at all, Venos tend to do that but you would need 2 sets of armor and that could prove quite expensive and troublesome.



    As long as you keep the min requirement of 3mag per lvl they can and the way he put it that build can prove viable.

    Indeed, this build would be very useful for Pking, 1v1 TW might be a bit harder but really, this makes sense, instead of sacrificing your levels wep, just sacrifice your levels armor and make up for it with your buff.
  • _Blackjack_ - Lost City
    _Blackjack_ - Lost City Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Rinnve - Lost City wrote: »
    The trick is that it's impossible to keep 3mag per lvl and wear adequate HA.


    Actually, thats where you are wrong. If you get req % stats on the armor, you can still wear 1 levels lower than your levels armor, but the trick is, you make up for it with your insane buff, thus making it viable.
  • Chocooo - Lost City
    Chocooo - Lost City Posts: 238 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Would be nice if we had a "hel" rune here...
    But that would be a waste of sockets.
  • Xhinzo - Harshlands
    Xhinzo - Harshlands Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    What is the damage output of a heavy mage like?
  • Mikel_oru - Sanctuary
    Mikel_oru - Sanctuary Posts: 610 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Rinnve - Lost City wrote: »
    The trick is that it's impossible to keep 3mag per lvl and wear adequate HA.

    Actually you're wrong, I'm LA Cleric as you probably know by now, I went on a tailor right after I saw this thread and checked the requirements for heavy armor, the way I am now I can wear with a reset note heavy armor lvl50 (= 1lvl lower) without restating my mag one bit, just take some dex and move it to str. You can even wear high lvl helmets wich means lots of hp.

    I think that build is a good idea if you can efford having 2 sets of proper armors, of course proper armors means TT and legendary stuff or else you will be on quite a dissadvantage on most cases, without sacrifising dmg at all (LA's dmg of course), sounds pretty viable to me.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Jertor - Sanctuary
    Jertor - Sanctuary Posts: 117 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    LA mage is cheaper because yoo only need 1 set of armor for grinding and pking and if your armor is good enough u can get alot of physical def mine is 7.2k with other peoples buff and bm/barb/archer cant kill me even 10 levels higher without spark. and the point of LA is to have higher crit to make up for the damage loss but thats just my opinion :)
  • Mikel_oru - Sanctuary
    Mikel_oru - Sanctuary Posts: 610 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Xhinzo - Harshlands wrote: »
    What is the damage output of a heavy mage like?

    Just as much as an LA mage would have, try to realise that the mag stat is totally untouched in that build.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • _Blackjack_ - Lost City
    _Blackjack_ - Lost City Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Xhinzo - Harshlands wrote: »
    What is the damage output of a heavy mage like?

    same as light
  • _Blackjack_ - Lost City
    _Blackjack_ - Lost City Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Jertor - Sanctuary wrote: »
    LA mage is cheaper because yoo only need 1 set of armor for grinding and pking and if your armor is good enough u can get alot of physical def mine is 7.2k with other peoples buff and bm/barb/archer cant kill me even 10 levels higher without spark. and the point of LA is to have higher crit to make up for the damage loss but thats just my opinion :)


    While this is true, the phys def difference would be huge, you would take less phys damage than a barb for crying out loud
  • Lareish - Harshlands
    Lareish - Harshlands Posts: 647 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    While being a pseudo-heavy mage (equipping the heavy armor from lower levels while you keep your basic LA stats to keep the current level weapon) sounds like an interesting option, it isn't actually necessary.

    I play an LA mage and manufacture my own equipment. While I realize I won't be able to do that with TT armors I have quite a few levels to go before that. I have good luck manufacturing 2* (and occassionally 3*) Light Armor. The Pdef stats come out slightly lower than CURRENT LEVEL HA, while the Mdef stats come out slighly less than current level Arcane robes. So while I don't have the full Pdef or full Mdef of the two extreme armor sets, I come close to achieving the benefits of both. Without shards. From there I can work in some shards for extra Pdef or make up for any elemental resistances that might have been lost in the manufacturing. (2* will notoriously increase mdef stats at the sacrifice of one or more element ;_; so it's harder to get one with 4-5. 2 with an obscene level of mdef is more likely.)

    So basically I run around looking like your average LA mage but my arcane defenses are comparable to a Robe, and my physical defenses are comparable to a heavy - nearly even with shards added ^x^ And I can still equip my current level weapon with no problem. Just a very slight magic drop compared to Arcane stats, which isn't evident at my level.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Harshlands || Lareish (Wz), Enraged Executor || AKA Howl Leader Garmr

    ~~ ~~~ The semi-sane, optimistic cynic with a light heart. ~~~ ~~
  • Jertor - Sanctuary
    Jertor - Sanctuary Posts: 117 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    _Blackjack_ - Lost City wrote: »
    While this is true, the phys def difference would be huge, you would take less phys damage than a barb for crying out loud

    yeah but if you wanna wear heavy armor so much you should just make a bm LA has enough physical resistance to survive plus it has more magic restsiatnce :P-yeah i know my spelling sucks -bb:chuckle
  • _Blackjack_ - Lost City
    _Blackjack_ - Lost City Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Jertor - Sanctuary wrote: »
    yeah but if you wanna wear heavy armor so much you should just make a bm LA has enough physical resistance to survive plus it has more magic restsiatnce :P-yeah i know my spelling sucks -bb:chuckle

    but magic resist is irrelevant in this build because you have two sets. Its better to do one thing awesome than two things okay.
  • _Blackjack_ - Lost City
    _Blackjack_ - Lost City Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Lareish - Harshlands wrote: »
    While being a pseudo-heavy mage (equipping the heavy armor from lower levels while you keep your basic LA stats to keep the current level weapon) sounds like an interesting option, it isn't actually necessary.

    I play an LA mage and manufacture my own equipment. While I realize I won't be able to do that with TT armors I have quite a few levels to go before that. I have good luck manufacturing 2* (and occassionally 3*) Light Armor. The Pdef stats come out slightly lower than CURRENT LEVEL HA, while the Mdef stats come out slighly less than current level Arcane robes. So while I don't have the full Pdef or full Mdef of the two extreme armor sets, I come close to achieving the benefits of both. Without shards. From there I can work in some shards for extra Pdef or make up for any elemental resistances that might have been lost in the manufacturing. (2* will notoriously increase mdef stats at the sacrifice of one or more element ;_; so it's harder to get one with 4-5. 2 with an obscene level of mdef is more likely.)

    So basically I run around looking like your average LA mage but my arcane defenses are comparable to a Robe, and my physical defenses are comparable to a heavy - nearly even with shards added ^x^ And I can still equip my current level weapon with no problem. Just a very slight magic drop compared to Arcane stats, which isn't evident at my level.


    But it adds up, 6 items with 100 more pdef each equals 1200 more phys def.
    Also, its cheaper and all you have to do is have some robes and you're set.
  • Loltank - Harshlands
    Loltank - Harshlands Posts: 747 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    2 words: diminishing returns.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Jertor - Sanctuary
    Jertor - Sanctuary Posts: 117 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    _Blackjack_ - Lost City wrote: »
    but magic resist is irrelevant in this build because you have two sets. Its better to do one thing awesome than two things okay.

    yeah but can heavy mages crit to make up for the magic damage loss :P
  • _Blackjack_ - Lost City
    _Blackjack_ - Lost City Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Jertor - Sanctuary wrote: »
    yeah but can heavy mages crit to make up for the magic damage loss :P

    Technically yes, its a lower chance but its still better than pure.
    Also the higher hp and survival rate makes up for that.
  • Jertor - Sanctuary
    Jertor - Sanctuary Posts: 117 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    _Blackjack_ - Lost City wrote: »
    Technically yes, its a lower chance but its still better than pure.
    Also the higher hp and survival rate makes up for that.

    lets jus say pure int is the best if ur rich lol
  • Lareish - Harshlands
    Lareish - Harshlands Posts: 647 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    _Blackjack_ - Lost City wrote: »
    But it adds up, 6 items with 100 more pdef each equals 1200 more phys def.
    Also, its cheaper and all you have to do is have some robes and you're set.

    Yes, it adds up, but not that severely. I'm talking about crafted 2* or 3* LA armor vs NPC Heavy Armor. I have a 3* chestplate that has only 20 less pdef than the HA of the same level, and about 15 less mdef in each element as the Robe of that level. The difference multiplied out over the whole set isn't too bad.

    My point is that 3* LA is a better option for a Mage than going Heavy. Heavy requires even more sacrifice of magic to be able to equip the armor, unless you're extremely lucky and get plenty of -req armor - but that takes up stat slots that could have given better boosts. 3* LA, on the other hand, approximates the HA pdef, and can nearly duplicate it with additional pdef shards. It also gives you twice the mdef of regular LA armor (ridiculously more than HA armor), bringing it close to Arcane stats. Not quite there, and not as fixable as the pdef gap, but respectable nonetheless.

    All without ganking your m.attack more than you need to ^x^

    *edit*

    With extra crit. And you'll be very happy for that extra pdef when the crits kick in... XD
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Harshlands || Lareish (Wz), Enraged Executor || AKA Howl Leader Garmr

    ~~ ~~~ The semi-sane, optimistic cynic with a light heart. ~~~ ~~
  • _Blackjack_ - Lost City
    _Blackjack_ - Lost City Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Lareish - Harshlands wrote: »
    Yes, it adds up, but not that severely. I'm talking about crafted 2* or 3* LA armor vs NPC Heavy Armor. I have a 3* chestplate that has only 20 less pdef than the HA of the same level, and about 15 less mdef in each element as the Robe of that level. The difference multiplied out over the whole set isn't too bad.

    My point is that 3* LA is a better option for a Mage than going Heavy. Heavy requires even more sacrifice of magic to be able to equip the armor, unless you're extremely lucky and get plenty of -req armor - but that takes up stat slots that could have given better boosts. 3* LA, on the other hand, approximates the HA pdef, and can nearly duplicate it with additional pdef shards. It also gives you twice the mdef of regular LA armor (ridiculously more than HA armor), bringing it close to Arcane stats. Not quite there, and not as fixable as the pdef gap, but respectable nonetheless.

    All without ganking your m.attack more than you need to ^x^

    *edit*

    With extra crit. And you'll be very happy for that extra pdef when the crits kick in... XD


    You do realize that the str and dex requirements for 3* heavy are the same as for plain unstatted? So, if I had three star heavy, the phys def difference would be larger. Who would buy armor from the npc after level 30?


    You are basing your claim on the idea that I would wear crappy armor, which I would not.
  • Jertor - Sanctuary
    Jertor - Sanctuary Posts: 117 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    _Blackjack_ - Lost City wrote: »
    You do realize that the str and dex requirements for 3* heavy are the same as for plain unstatted? So, if I had three star heavy, the phys def difference would be larger. Who would buy armor from the npc after level 30?


    You are basing your claim on the idea that I would wear crappy armor, which I would not.


    im guessing ur a heavy mage :P
  • _Blackjack_ - Lost City
    _Blackjack_ - Lost City Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Jertor - Sanctuary wrote: »
    im guessing ur a heavy mage :P

    No, im the OP. I just dont like it when people make claims that are obviously false.
  • _Blackjack_ - Lost City
    _Blackjack_ - Lost City Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Loltank - Harshlands wrote: »
    2 words: diminishing returns.

    I know, I know. The difference between 1k and 2k phys def is bigger than the difference between 6k and 7k. But the thing is, Why not get as much as you can? You are only trading a bit of %crit for a lot more def. Plus, refined heavy stuff gives **** TONS of hp.
  • King_Solomon - Heavens Tear
    King_Solomon - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,341 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    I have a heavy veno and it's very hard to get enough points to wear the latest armoury and magic weapon. if you manage to get decent armoury with -%requeriments and great ornaments with strength/dexterity to keep up then you'll have a wizard with none of our weaknesses. your phys defense will be much higher than blademasters' and once you refine your armoury you'll get crazy hp gains.

    be aware it's very hard to find all the items you'll need and your MP bar won't last long. in terms of damage it will be even lower than typical light armor builds and you'll have lower critical %.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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  • _Blackjack_ - Lost City
    _Blackjack_ - Lost City Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    King_Solomon - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I have a heavy veno and it's very hard to get enough points to wear the latest armoury and magic weapon. if you manage to get decent armoury with -%requeriments and great ornaments with strength/dexterity to keep up then you'll have a wizard with none of our weaknesses. your phys defense will be much higher than blademasters' and once you refine your armoury you'll get crazy hp gains.

    be aware it's very hard to find all the items you'll need and your MP bar won't last long. in terms of damage it will be even lower than typical light armor builds and you'll have lower critical %.

    How will my damage be lower? La is just enough for the weapon as well.
    Also my mp will drain just as fast as LA. I just came up for a slogan for this build.

    "All of the mage, none of the weakness"
  • Mizuoni - Dreamweaver
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,533 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    you will not have the same damage as LA...LA crits more due to the increase in dex.....
    you have to find a way to make up for the damage loss for it to be truly worth it....
    also find a way so people wont say you a noob BM with a magic weapon lmao
    Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
    Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
    ...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
    Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
    So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze

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