are we elf archer usless???

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  • Cufaen - Sanctuary
    Cufaen - Sanctuary Posts: 47 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    wuxinnan wrote: »
    just out of curiousity can an archer ever solo an fb...say an archer at lvl 100 what is the highest fb he/she could do by themselves?

    I solo'd FB19 at about lvl 45. Haven't tried it with FB29 yet.

    I gotta say something about the whole 'archer' useless thing . . . when I go into an FB I am there to kill everything in sight. I don't care about aggro. Maybe it's because of my build, which I gather is pretty unsual (Vit 30, Mag 30, Str 60, Dex 180(?)). I can take a lot of punishment and I am always using various shots with a normal arrow now and then. I have over 1900 HP and 1800 MP, does this make me a 'bad' archer? Or just more survivible?
    "Lead me, follow me but get out of my way!"
  • Rule - Heavens Tear
    Rule - Heavens Tear Posts: 579 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    I can't answer whether that makes you a good\bad archer, but the 1800mp means with barrage lev 1, you'll be good at Zhen.
  • mbrunestud
    mbrunestud Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    ehhhh you dont get barrage til lvl 59. you dont need to have an especially large pool just so you can zhen, charm will tick at 75% anyways.
  • Rule - Heavens Tear
    Rule - Heavens Tear Posts: 579 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    mbrunestud wrote: »
    ehhhh you dont get barrage til lvl 59. you dont need to have an especially large pool just so you can zhen, charm will tick at 75% anyways.

    From your quote I'm guessing that lev 59 is a long long ways away for you.

    The poster with 1800mp is currently level 56. Thats 3 levels away from zhen.

    Your charm ticks at 75% then has to cool down. If you cycle through your newly refreshed mana pool before it has cooled down, then your barrage will stop firing. Your zhen is now looking at either the cleric or the other DD's pulling all the aggro and the possibility of everyone except your lurers dying.
  • mbrunestud
    mbrunestud Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Rule - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    From your quote I'm guessing that lev 59 is a long long ways away for you.

    The poster with 1800mp is currently level 56. Thats 3 levels away from zhen.

    Your charm ticks at 75% then has to cool down. If you cycle through your newly refreshed mana pool before it has cooled down, then your barrage will stop firing. Your zhen is now looking at either the cleric or the other DD's pulling all the aggro and the possibility of everyone except your lurers dying.

    well i can tell you that im lvl 70, with arcane hat, and with a charm barrage does not stop. i just dont consider zhenning because i grind fast enough solo, or with other DD.

    but anyways, 360 every 3 seconds, to be on the safe side u'd need something like 1500 mana pool at most. 1800 is overkill, and doesn't make you any better at zhen than any other archer w/out magic added. lvl 61 archer w/ base magic of 5 and wearing the latest arcane headgear is looking at 1560 mana.

    also, he wasn't lvl 56 when that was posted
  • sillyfoo
    sillyfoo Posts: 286 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    o.o i have lvl 6 barrage and yes i know it is a no no but i wanted to have a strong aoe in tw's so i lvl'd it and i dont zhen. As long as you have heiro you wont ever run out of mp. Yes it will **** ur heiro but remember it takes 3 seconds between each attack in barrage so your cooldown of hiero will be over soon enough to compensate its not even close to empty.
  • Rule - Heavens Tear
    Rule - Heavens Tear Posts: 579 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Its been tested lots and lots of times.
    Lvl 1 barrage without at least 1600mp will break sometime during the zhen.

    Yes, you can get it from items. Yes, you can use gems. Higher lev barrages that require greater mp\ps would have a greater cap.

    It does not (usually) break immediately, usually after 5-10 mins. Sometimes even later in. Generally not a problem during PK\TW as you don't run it for that long.
  • Damewort - Sanctuary
    Damewort - Sanctuary Posts: 573 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    This reminds me of "Save barbs and clerics, let the archers and venos die!" *sigh*

    None of classes is usless unless you have completly messed up your build. In creative squad every class has it's own use. I have seen cases where archers tank the bosses, where archer saves lifes with Knockback Arrow.
    The problem is that archers are too good, too strong and too unpredictable. That's the problem of critical hits, as they are good when you alone need to keep aggro, but can be pain where you only have to assist. When you need to assist, then just make yourself bit worse - have bit worse weapon with you or remove damage/crit.hit boosting items.

    As for PK/TW - Aren't archers the best for that, expecially, in open place?
  • Fleuri - Sanctuary
    Fleuri - Sanctuary Posts: 1,763 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Damewort - Sanctuary wrote: »
    As for PK/TW - Aren't archers the best for that, expecially, in open place?

    In my experience, you usually need tank barbarians in TW, and winning without enough can be difficult.

    And clerics are everyone's favorite target because you typically can not win in TW except where you have cleaned out your opponent's clerics.

    Archers certainly have a role, but so do blademasters, wizards and venos.
  • swgs
    swgs Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    I love anchor, anchor is fun to play, I actually started a new anchor character 2 days ago. But they does not fit in HH or FB groups. I form HH/FB groups a lot, my first choice always clerics and venos. They both play multi rules in the group. Beside cleric’s healing and veno’s luring, they both can DD, veno actually deal maybe more damage than any other classes when you consider they have pet to help and they have amplify. They are both range attacker, so there is no need to heal when fight short range AoE bosses. When there is a boss that a herc cannot tank, then a barb is needed. If there are not enough clerics and venos available, I’d usually rather left the spot open, it only take a little longer to finish the instance run when the party is not full, but when a anchor or wizard in group, they steal aggro one way or another. BM? Only need if they know how to cancel boss’s skill and we are going to fight that specific boss. But it maybe just me, I like steady runs. Anchors and Wizards maybe a great choice for a party like to rush through the instance, since they do deal more damage to non-boss mobs in HH than veno and cleric.
  • Literature - Harshlands
    Literature - Harshlands Posts: 822 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Link - Lost City wrote: »
    I was thinking like this too..sometimes, but everyone who does FBs or HHs(mostly HHs) without an Archer is a complete idiot.

    LoLoL I'm sure you do feel that way.

    But archers are useless. Use their spot for another veno or cleric, whichever your party needs.
  • Mosz - Heavens Tear
    Mosz - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,181 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Literature - Harshlands wrote: »
    LoLoL I'm sure you do feel that way.

    But archers are useless. Use their spot for another veno or cleric, whichever your party needs.

    a "good" party doesnt need another cleric till 2-2 wurlord, heck ive seen 2-3 wurlord solo healed (yah barb did tick), an archer does about same damage to TT bosses as most non herc pets, although we dont have good debuffs during boss battles, the 16% shartooth though..yah thats a lot, normal mobs die fastest with archers also
  • Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,385 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Rule - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Some hope for the DD's out there. There are bosses that require you kill them in X time or the party is insta-killed. I think TT 3-1 has one such (don't quote me, its been a while since I was told.)
    Also in other TT's in squad mode when bosses have millions of hitpoints 15% of the top is a real money saver\time saver. Same for world bosses.
    DD's are the kings of PK and TW. Though, with the glitched pheonix bleed this is often times questionable. (This last piece is not meant as inflamatory, please do not persue it in that way.)

    If you mean 3-1's 4 minute boss. After the 4 min, the party is not instant killed. The boss go after every party member just the same. Just did that boss with a veno and 3 arch. We didn't make the 4 minutes... and the boss 1-2 hit the tanking herc. Went after the highest archer. Thank god that the boss died half way toward him. So its still possible to kill the boss after 4 minutes, just that the boss hits f-ing hard.
    1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
    2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
    3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.

    Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf
  • Mosz - Heavens Tear
    Mosz - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,181 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    If you mean 3-1's 4 minute boss. After the 4 min, the party is not instant killed. The boss go after every party member just the same. Just did that boss with a veno and 3 arch. We didn't make the 4 minutes... and the boss 1-2 hit the tanking herc. Went after the highest archer. Thank god that the boss died half way toward him. So its still possible to kill the boss after 4 minutes, just that the boss hits f-ing hard.

    it 50k hits things 1 by 1 (damage log shows wrong numbers) actually it looks like its a skill he uses(maybe interruptable?), if theres a cleric and he starts to res people i think actually after he 1 shots everyone in party he stops doing the skill
  • Rule - Heavens Tear
    Rule - Heavens Tear Posts: 579 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Good clarification, I've had some recent experience with it and not having killed it prior to the 4 mins. Message remains the same, archers doing thier X% off the top and having an awesome DPS really does help. Archers are very useful in this situation.
  • Shikiyu - Heavens Tear
    Shikiyu - Heavens Tear Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    lv.75 Archer here and my stats is 307 dex /105 str/ 5 mag/ 5 vit means nothing. my atk is weaker then a cleric regular attack. I hit 2.5k-3.5k damage, but a cleric does does 5-7k damage. What good is evade for if we can't dodge magic attack? Also when we hit critical archer have weaker crt? It not fair you guys made everyone far to strong and archer are to weak. We also have to pay for all our attack by buying arrows and at a cost our atk is so low. It unfair because we can't heal or have strong def. GM is archer only to use as a toy for Aoe exp. We are not getting any stronger by adding dex, it increase our attack by 5-8 attak at a time. why do other race go beyond the archer and the cleric is more stronger. Maybe you guys should equal all the attack damage to the same? So it would all be the same for us archer user.b:angryb:angry
  • Gasoline - Lost City
    Gasoline - Lost City Posts: 304 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    wuxinnan wrote: »
    dont get me wrong i love and proud to be an elf archer but it seems there are more favorable class in terms of group parties, boss battles, and etc. why i say this well it seems that when people shout out in the world chat they are always looking for veno or barbs or clerics but no elf archer!!! i want to party too...lol

    Any harder type of instance, boss etc needs tank, 2 cleric and veno to lure. Than there is only 2 spots left for DDs...

    Those 2 spots can be archer, BM or wiz.
    Preferably archer b/c of sharpened tooth arrow - 16% hp and speed buff, than a BM for defense buff and dragon.

    And most servers have a shietload of archers that all want that 1 spot in the damn party b:surrender

    Its alot harder for wiz to get into parties, even tho wiz is a great DD-class.
  • ecliptic
    ecliptic Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Shikiyu - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    lv.75 Archer here and my stats is 307 dex /105 str/ 5 mag/ 5 vit means nothing. my atk is weaker then a cleric regular attack. I hit 2.5k-3.5k damage, but a cleric does does 5-7k damage. What good is evade for if we can't dodge magic attack? Also when we hit critical archer have weaker crt? It not fair you guys made everyone far to strong and archer are to weak. We also have to pay for all our attack by buying arrows and at a cost our atk is so low. It unfair because we can't heal or have strong def. GM is archer only to use as a toy for Aoe exp. We are not getting any stronger by adding dex, it increase our attack by 5-8 attak at a time. why do other race go beyond the archer and the cleric is more stronger. Maybe you guys should equal all the attack damage to the same? So it would all be the same for us archer user.b:angryb:angry

    Couldnt have said it better my self, IM only 71 my stats: 275 dex, 22 vit, 75 str, 5 mag and only hit for 2100 - 2800 basic attack and crit only for 3k - 6k a so called level 55 /cough Attack cleric does tripple the damage I do and kills monsters faster then I can.

    Here is a question....

    wtf is an attack cleric anyway? is that like a priest that is pedofile and touches alter boys while claiming to be a man of god? a "Porno Priest" b:chuckle
  • mbrunestud
    mbrunestud Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Shikiyu - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    lv.75 Archer here and my stats is 307 dex /105 str/ 5 mag/ 5 vit means nothing. my atk is weaker then a cleric regular attack. I hit 2.5k-3.5k damage, but a cleric does does 5-7k damage. What good is evade for if we can't dodge magic attack? Also when we hit critical archer have weaker crt? It not fair you guys made everyone far to strong and archer are to weak. We also have to pay for all our attack by buying arrows and at a cost our atk is so low. It unfair because we can't heal or have strong def. GM is archer only to use as a toy for Aoe exp. We are not getting any stronger by adding dex, it increase our attack by 5-8 attak at a time. why do other race go beyond the archer and the cleric is more stronger. Maybe you guys should equal all the attack damage to the same? So it would all be the same for us archer user.b:angryb:angry

    you're forgetting the fact that plume shot (im assuming that's what you're comparing it to) takes more time to cast. i can get about 2 shots out in the time a cleric casts plume shot. archers' crit does less damage because our base damage is lower than spells, but they crit so much more often. as you lvl up, more dex means more crits, archer is the only class where its primary attribute gives more crits, that means archers' damage potential is huge as you progress even further.
    (evade sucks i agree, also, what are you doin w/ so much strength? b:chuckle)
  • Keroman - Heavens Tear
    Keroman - Heavens Tear Posts: 41 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Shikiyu - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    lv.75 Archer here and my stats is 307 dex /105 str/ 5 mag/ 5 vit y

    Why so much strength?
  • Mosz - Heavens Tear
    Mosz - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,181 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Keroman - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Why so much strength?

    failed to get an lion helm so got aqua?
  • Charizrd - Heavens Tear
    Charizrd - Heavens Tear Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Lemme end this ....

    Are archers useless. Yes and no.

    Lemme first tell why no --- " the ultimate dps" (if u are pure or a near pure build)

    As for yes - there is a ******n huge population of archers on this server. If not you there is always someone else tht can be found. So Noone really care's for an archer. (xcept for zhen ofc ... which burns our pockets)

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