Archer Vs. Cleric

2

Comments

  • Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear
    Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,175 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    forp to get started,

    You are scared of krixxix
    You are scared of Suzerix
    You are scared of Dismal shade
    You are scared of Mystic
    You are scared of Emerald qingfu
    You are scared of respect

    Do not quote this post - ty
    We're MysticAve my name is not Dave
    (Poem in the making - Shall be epic)
  • Forp - Heavens Tear
    Forp - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,445 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    forp to get started,

    You are scared of krixxix
    You are scared of Suzerix
    You are scared of Dismal shade
    You are scared of Mystic
    You are scared of Emerald qingfu
    You are scared of respect

    Do not quote this post - ty

    this is all very interesting, how did you come up with such a conclusion?
  • BloodCountes - Heavens Tear
    BloodCountes - Heavens Tear Posts: 185 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    b:question
    My people, some of them have run away to the hills
    and have no shelter. No food, no one knows where they are,
    hear me my chiefs, I am tired. My heart is sick and sad,
    I will fight no more....
  • Mikel_oru - Sanctuary
    Mikel_oru - Sanctuary Posts: 610 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    Forp - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    this is all very interesting, how did you come up with such a conclusion?

    In Cleric forums.
    Question: what is "real archer"?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Forp - Heavens Tear
    Forp - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,445 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    Mikel_oru - Sanctuary wrote: »
    In Cleric forums.
    you learned that i'm afraid of bosses that do less than 80 damage? b:shocked
    Mikel_oru - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Question: what is "real archer"?
    the exact opposite of what you idiots are dueling.
  • Mikel_oru - Sanctuary
    Mikel_oru - Sanctuary Posts: 610 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    Forp - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    you learned that i'm afraid of bosses that do less than 80 damage? b:shocked

    Childish reaction - ignored.
    the exact opposite of what you idiots are dueling.

    Archers kick **** in duels, shows how much you know.. let's put it another way, duels can last even minutes, PK lasts 3? maybe 4? seconds, as much time as you need to 2 or 3 hit someone that hasn't noticed you. Must need lots of skill to pull this off huh..

    And mind your togue, no one gave you the right or the excuse to call me or anyone else names. We both know that you wouldn't talk like that if a screen wasn't in the way.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Forp - Heavens Tear
    Forp - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,445 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    Mikel_oru - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Childish reaction - ignored.
    k
    Mikel_oru - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Archers kick **** in duels, shows how much you know.. let's put it another way, duels can last even minutes, PK lasts 3? maybe 4? seconds, as much time as you need to 2 or 3 hit someone that hasn't noticed you. Must need lots of skill to pull this off huh..
    against a cleric that can spam iron heart and use plume shell to make them self nearly invincible, archers don't stand a chance. this is where you like to be. if they're given the upper hand, it's wrong?
    Mikel_oru - Sanctuary wrote: »
    And mind your togue, no one gave you the right or the excuse to call me or anyone else names. We both know that you wouldn't talk like that if a screen wasn't in the way.
    i don't need your permission to call your dumbass an idiot. and, please, don't get started about your irl-tough guy business b:shutup
  • angellicdeity
    angellicdeity Posts: 641 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    I went to sleep to wake up to a bunch of rubbish... Time to set things straight.
    Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Lol, no name confuzzles here.

    Let me ask everyone this, If you're a cleric your not gonna go on forums posting that archers are best now would you?

    I can't even say " As a cleric we can beat archers " without adding " oh archers can beat us as well" to the end of the sentance without getting heavily flamed lol.

    Maybe you people above could learn a thing or two from Mikel_oru (or me) about holding a conversation.

    Of course you cannot, and archers cant go around bragging that they're the best. The ones who do only come from a PvE server like sanctuary and Heavens Tear where you are infants when it comes to real PvP. Most of you even dont have your fairy, nevermind the character skills as it takes quite a bit of effort to acquire the books.


    The fact is, anyone from a real PvP server only says two things about class balance:

    1) Facing a Barbarian is a pointless endeavour
    2) Pheonix Flesh Ream is bugged and will tear you to pieces

    Other than that all other classes in all other situations are evenly balanced. All that matters is luck when it comes to criticals.
    Mikel_oru - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Maybe you people above could learn a thing or two from him (or me) about holding a conversation.

    Unfortunately, you - yourself dont even know how to hold a conversation. Anyone reading these forums have seen twice that you cant even read an argument.

    See below:
    Mikel_oru - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Childish reaction - ignored.



    Archers kick **** in duels, shows how much you know.. let's put it another way, duels can last even minutes, PK lasts 3? maybe 4? seconds, as much time as you need to 2 or 3 hit someone that hasn't noticed you. Must need lots of skill to pull this off huh..

    And mind your togue, no one gave you the right or the excuse to call me or anyone else names. We both know that you wouldn't talk like that if a screen wasn't in the way.

    Again, this game requires no skill at all. It requires awareness for a player playing on a PvP server. But as a the PvE player you are - you have virtually none as you never have to watch your back.


    Conversational skills? hardly... A good part of communication is reading and understanding what the opposition read. Even politicians can read better than you...


    Again, none of you duel expertise matter as I so clearly pointed out before:
    You need to take yourself down 1 step to reality here, and realize that the classes are evenly balanced in the realm of real PvP. Archers win some and loose some to clerics. There is no clear winner in real PvP.


    Just because you duel doesn't mean you should be a self-proclaimed cleric expert on archer PvP. Also bear in mind the original poster is from Lost City where all your duel expertise is nonsense anyways.

    Please take your self-proclaimed cleric expertise back to the cleric forum where you PvE players can agree.

    None of it apply's here, and certainly doesn't apply where the Original Poster is. The Original Poster is on the PvP server - so even he knows a bit more than you do about PvP.
  • Forp - Heavens Tear
    Forp - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,445 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    angellicdeity wrote: »
    Please take your self-proclaimed cleric expertise back to the cleric forum where you PvE players can agree.

    i don't agree with them b:surrender
  • Mikel_oru - Sanctuary
    Mikel_oru - Sanctuary Posts: 610 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    Forp - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    i don't need your permission to call your dumbass an idiot. and, please, don't get started about your irl-tough guy business b:shutup

    Tough irl guy? You really are either 13 years old or just dumb, do you go around calling people idiots when you argue about something even if you don't know them? There's nothing to do with physical condition or imiditaness. Assuming you do get out that is...
    angellicdeity wrote: »
    Unfortunately, you - yourself dont even know how to hold a conversation. Anyone reading these forums have seen twice that you cant even read an argument.

    Conversational skills? hardly... A good part of communication is reading and understanding what the opposition read. Even politicians can read better than you...

    There's a big difference between not understanding and ignoring, think for a change.
    You think that I will actually bother with someone that all he does is calling me names? You people are dissrespectfull and I tend to ignore this kind of lame people, because no one is like that in the real world and all of you are cowards when you flame/attack someone via your monitors. I hope I made myself clear. Do you realise that all I'm doing is expressing my opinion? while all YOU do is calling names or belittling me because I play in a PvE server.

    I hoped that I wouldn't need to quote the starter but here goes:
    Paroxysmus - Lost City wrote: »
    Me and some college buddies started this game together, and yesterday I dueled my roommate. I had a level 31 archer, and he had a level 30 cleric. I couldn't beat him, closest i got was him left at 25%. I had read about strategies and I used them, I spark erupted and used regular shot (since he was in robes), even my quickshot was doing 78 damage and i have it maxed to my level. He was using plume shield and he killed me way to fast for me to get thru it. I even used my 20 sec protection spell which he broke thru in 1 shot. So I'm just checking to see if this is usual at this level or if there is something better I can do. Sucks losing to your roommates "healer" over and over again. I'm a pure dex archer by the way.

    Read again, carefully this time.
    Paroxysmus DUELED his buddy, he didn't PK him. And I obviously have much more expirience in DUELS i repeat DUELS than you PvP players that have no idea how real duels are like since you don't prectice it often...

    I rest my case.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Prof - Harshlands
    Prof - Harshlands Posts: 55 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    by trying to intimidate me with your "if there wasn't a monitor between us", tells me you're trying to act big. if you're going to question who i am outside this forum, show us who you are.
  • Mikel_oru - Sanctuary
    Mikel_oru - Sanctuary Posts: 610 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    Prof - Harshlands wrote: »
    by trying to intimidate me with your "if there wasn't a monitor between us", tells me you're trying to act big. if you're going to question who i am outside this forum, show us who you are.

    See bellow:
    Mikel_oru - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Tough irl guy? You really are either 13 years old or just dumb, do you go around calling people idiots when you argue about something even if you don't know them? There's nothing to do with physical condition or imiditaness. Assuming you do get out that is...

    I never tried to intimidate you, I only stated a fact. If you do go out and talk like that to other people then you'll never get far, trust me on that (I did see your post before editing - wise choice)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Prof - Harshlands
    Prof - Harshlands Posts: 55 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    Mikel_oru - Sanctuary wrote: »
    See bellow:



    I never tried to intimidate you, I only stated a fact. If you do go out and talk like that to other people then you'll never get far, trust me on that (I did see your post before editing - wise choice)

    see below:
    Mikel_oru - Sanctuary wrote: »
    And mind your togue, no one gave you the right or the excuse to call me or anyone else names. We both know that you wouldn't talk like that if a screen wasn't in the way.

    you did try, too bad it was unsuccessful. god, if you're going to lie about something you said, why do it within 20 minutes of saying it?
  • mbrunestud
    mbrunestud Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    Mikel_oru - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I had a couple of arguments with Mysticlifex in the Cleric forums, nothing big but still it happened (unless I confuse names lol) but still he "defended" me in a way, why? cuz he sees that what I do is expressing my opinion and not trying to flame. (unless I get flamed first)

    Maybe you people above could learn a thing or two from him (or me) about holding a conversation.

    no no what you did is come on to a topic about how archers can win against clerics with nothing to contribute save for telling us that you can't lose and you don't know what an archer's skill menu looks like and when discredited about your pvp experience being restricted only to duels, you went on to denounce pvp in general saying that duels, in fact, need more skills and pvp is all unjust due to archers sniping ppl unawares (cough zoe).
  • acidstorm
    acidstorm Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    I repeat:

    Duels prove nothing. Absolutely nothing.

    Hierogram/Charm vs Hierogram/Charm is a real 1v1 PvP fight. Nuff said.
  • angellicdeity
    angellicdeity Posts: 641 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    Mikel_oru - Sanctuary wrote: »
    There's a big difference between not understanding and ignoring, think for a change.

    Clearly, then, you have not understood anything I've said, and thus you've just discredited all your arguments.
    Mikel_oru - Sanctuary wrote: »
    You think that I will actually bother with someone that all he does is calling me names? You people are dissrespectfull and I tend to ignore this kind of lame people, because no one is like that in the real world and all of you are cowards when you flame/attack someone via your monitors. I hope I made myself clear. Do you realise that all I'm doing is expressing my opinion? while all YOU do is calling names or belittling me because I play in a PvE server.

    Respect, and arguments are two different things. I openly said you dont provide credible information as all you have under your belt of experience is duels.

    You didn't respond by showing experience - just more ignorance on your part.

    My attacks have generally been tame and informative too, with reason. However, if you would like I could resort to what my lost city counterparts do - "patronize you for being rediculously stupid"


    The simple fact is, you dont respond to any of the pieces I present. The truth of the matter is this:

    The original poster is from Lost City. He is asking about how archers can win against clerics in PvP in general. You simply come here saying as a cleric you never loose duels and implied the conclusion that clerics are always superior. You have no experience whatsoever to be commenting on this for the reason stated by the first underline.

    Then when most people are telling you that Duels mean nothing you openly try to defend it with arguments with zero validity. You even go as far as to personally attack Prof.

    Truth is, you seem like the 13 year old from all the posts on this thread.


    Back to the original posters question:

    Archers win some and loose some. At higher levels Archers (with respect to PvP) usually come out on top due to the fact that they have superior range. Once you hit your 89 Sage/Demon cultivation, and you become a Sage archer - if you ever get your hands on Winged Blessing - this is even more true.

    Later on archers have over 20% in terms of a critical rate - so you'll be throwing out critical hits pretty often. Depending on how the cleric approaches you (plume shell or not) you may have to use skills such as Serrated arrow to force them to waste some time purifying or perhaps casting Ironheart while you kite them for the damage over time.


    As an archer it is completely possible to keep out of range of a clerics shots although it is tough (at higher levels.) However, if you get slept and debuffed - its often difficult to survive the barrage from their magic skills. Plume shot isn't your real problem - its the Tempest, Wield Thunder, and Great Cyclone that will give you issues.
  • Kishanhood - Heavens Tear
    Kishanhood - Heavens Tear Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    what a long and pointless arguement...
  • Forp - Heavens Tear
    Forp - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,445 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    angellicdeity wrote: »
    As an archer it is completely possible to keep out of range of a clerics shots although it is tough (at higher levels.) However, if you get slept and debuffed - its often difficult to survive the barrage from their magic skills. Plume shot isn't your real problem - its the Tempest, Wield Thunder, and Great Cyclone that will give you issues.

    light armor generally leans more towards the magic defense, so wouldn't plume shot out-dmg cyclone?
  • Chaotiic - Lost City
    Chaotiic - Lost City Posts: 498 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    This thread seems fun.

    Duels do not represent any sort of pvp skill etc. Everyone knows this whether they are on the pvp or pve server. We just happen to have stumbled upon a couple of idiotic clerics.

    A duel for a cleric may be able to last minutes but for all other classes a duel lasts 10 seconds max a players cant regenerate hp. PVP is partially about surprise attacks but that is why angellicdeity talks about AWARENESS. If u pay attention to your mini-map and see the green dot u will look for the person see what guild they are, what colour their name is, decide whether or not they are a threat and prepare yourself. There is no surprise if you are aware of your surroundings.

    In real pvp there are heiros/charms these make killing someone hard. Even if you get the jump on a person u hit them once and they know you are there, you hit them again and their heiro ticks they have full hp and they have a chance to fight back. Believe me everyone on the pvp server is wearing a hp heiro, figuring out ways to by-pass their heiro or deal enough damage in 10 seconds to kill them is wat makes pvp good and why no-one considers duels real. Duels are about who gets the first stun or sleep and becomes impossible when an ep puts up winged shell.

    Archer vs Cleric
    For an archer even at high level clerics can be annoying to kill. Best strategy is to stun then try kill them through heiro with a high damage skill such as deadly shot or take aim at later levels. If u dont deal enough damage to kill them through heiro and it ticks try get in a few normal shots before they put up shield then use metal skills. Like this you can usually kill them fairly quickly.

    If you dont you are in for a long fight, remember to focus on metal skills when they have their shield up and a good idea is to countdown the shield. Shield last 20 seconds so if u start channeling deadly shot or take aim at around 18 secs it will hit as their shield drops dealing max damage then u can stun straight after and finish them before they can spam heal or re-open shield. Generally you wont be able to kill them with shield up unless u crit 2 times in a row at least on your metal skills, they are failure full magic builds and have low hp or they wear light armor.

    @Forp archers generally wear physical neck/adorns so their pdef is higher. Also plume shot hits for low damage compared to cyclone and thunder weild so spamming plume will generally not kill an archer and at later levels probably not kill a mage(at 9x wearing robes they have more pdef than light users)
    Official Guild History

    Conqueror->kamisama
  • Forp - Heavens Tear
    Forp - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,445 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    Chaotiic - Lost City wrote: »
    @Forp archers generally wear physical neck/adorns so their pdef is higher. Also plume shot hits for low damage compared to cyclone and thunder weild so spamming plume will generally not kill an archer and at later levels probably not kill a mage(at 9x wearing robes they have more pdef than light users)

    at 9x there's heaven/hell plume shot b:victory
  • Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,385 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Mikel_oru Is not an idiot, his expressing his opnions don't like it don't read it.

    According to an idiot, I'm an idiot, hmm?

    If an archer sees me and stuns me I'm dead - True
    If I see an archer charging up deadly shot there are many possiblities,
    okay let me explain it simple deadly shot takes 3 seconds to channel
    Okay in 3 seconds we can 1 - sleep 2 - plume shell

    Only an idiot would start a duel/fight with a spell that takes a long charge.

    Correct stunning arrow stuns for 3 seconds, Note - maxed chromatic seal sleeps upto 33 seconds.

    The thing is when you duel you can say after a certain amount of fights - yes I am better than you -

    In PK it's all surprise seriosuly if an archer Is in PK and they get tempested without noticing, then slept they are gonna lose

    If an archer stuns and cleric they are gonna die either way you just simply cannot say one thing is better than another because "oh" you sneaked frolm behind and killed them.

    Any archer with half a brain will stun before deadly. So i am not sure how many archers with less then half a brain is out there. But i doubt you can get plume/sleep up before the deadly hits.
    1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
    2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
    3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.

    Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf
  • Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear
    Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,175 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    I ment plume shell or sleep not both =S
    We're MysticAve my name is not Dave
    (Poem in the making - Shall be epic)
  • Forp - Heavens Tear
    Forp - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,445 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I ment plume shell or sleep not both =S

    why not both? sleep gives you time to heal, relax for a moment, debuff, and charge up your ult. also, before you charge your ult, you use plume shell to preserve yourself in case he doesn't die. your ult isn't always a 1 hit kill on light armor.
  • Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear
    Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,175 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    I was not referring to strategy I was talking about what you could do during the channeling time of deadly shot, nothing concering the actual fight.
    We're MysticAve my name is not Dave
    (Poem in the making - Shall be epic)
  • Nelae - Heavens Tear
    Nelae - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,490 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    copywheel wrote: »
    I'll have to agree with AngleSnipe. All the classes are different end-game.
    But who has the advantage in a fight depends on the build, experience, intelligence, and use of skills by the player. In a fair fight (even levels, gear, etc.), I'm guessing it will come down to technique. I don't believe that any class is significantly over-powered in this game; each has their own strengths and weaknesses. It is your own adroitness and style when it comes to playing your character that defines how good you are.

    Read this.
    b:dirty
  • Sylvae - Sanctuary
    Sylvae - Sanctuary Posts: 1,018 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    Everything has its pitfalls. I'd hate to be a cleric facing an archer where my opening shot has to be plumeshell or sleep. Wouldn't feel very confident about my chances of doing well in those cases.

    Usually I would like an attack spell first, then sleep, debuff, max dmg spike. Do this so that the first attack drops them to lower health, but still above their charm. Then debuff for a little extra dmg before high damage skill. A demon Wield Thunder would of course be sweet as an opener. Or just demon spirit gift a tempest.

    Of course, an archer getting the drop on me will likely drop me pretty easily. So like many have said, any class has a chance to win when they have the advantage of first shot.

    Skill and knowledge comes into play. Like knowing that health boosts help you survive, but certain amounts of health can actually hurt you when under attack. If someone can drop you to 51-60% health in a hit instead of triggering the charm, then that extra health just set them up for a spike that will kill them. It just depends if people can switch up their skill use enough to make use of it.
  • Shikyura - Sanctuary
    Shikyura - Sanctuary Posts: 143 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    word...i just got some new gear which added hp :D b:victory

    then...in TT...a mob which normally triggers my charm after one hit allows me to survive 3 (1 + 2 from c harm)...then two mobs were on me this time...i died XD...cause i got the extra HP from the gear and didnt tick my charmb:victory

    go non-set (range of damage [min-max]) damage for the win!b:pleased
  • angellicdeity
    angellicdeity Posts: 641 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    Forp - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    at 9x there's heaven/hell plume shot b:victory

    At 9x you dont worry about plume shot. Even with the extra damage from sage, or decreased intervals from demon - plume shot is at the bottom of an archers worries. If all we get are hits from plume shot, while they hit higher than perhaps a physical weapon, then I'm pretty confident about surviving to unleash a barrage of skills.


    Although the physical defense may seem to be lower on light armor users, the physical defense stat play's a higher roll in terms of effectiveness. 2000 physical defense absorbs more physical damage than 2000 magic defense absorbing magic damage.


    As such magic spells hurt a great deal more than physical spells.
  • Forp - Heavens Tear
    Forp - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,445 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    really? maybe i'll notice that a bit more when i max my mastery. plume shot out damages on everything except heavy armored people usually, but i recently raised my mastery to 7 all the way from 1. huge difference. maybe that **** metal dmg will shine now.
  • Chaotiic - Lost City
    Chaotiic - Lost City Posts: 498 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    Forp - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    really? maybe i'll notice that a bit more when i max my mastery. plume shot out damages on everything except heavy armored people usually, but i recently raised my mastery to 7 all the way from 1. huge difference. maybe that **** metal dmg will shine now.

    Lol yeah my cousin has a 9x cleric and i have messed around on his char sometimes since the start so i know what u mean with plume shot seems to hit harder. However, at later levels it really pails in comparison thunder wield or a cyclone even when they both become heaven/hell. Fact is magic generally hits harder than physical and cyclones slightly faster casting works wonders.
    Official Guild History

    Conqueror->kamisama

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