About the Ban.

roflmfaoxd · February 2009

There's no roll back? How about the banned people...simply unfair.
both sides have their argument...just no solutions can be fair then...=.=
sigh~

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear · February 2009

Klath - Sanctuary wrote: »

Im assuming here they dont do backups, due to the large amount of users PWI has and HD space it would consume monthly (im assuming PWI has a userbase around 10.000-30.000 users actively playing, but only a gm can give us any concrete number), costing thousands to their pockets. Not to mention that browsing logs is SLOW and EXTREMELLY tedious, they took the WORST decision possible, even if it may look like the best at first, there is no way you can seed out all those who exploited it.

they probably use tape backup. more practical and safer than HD backup. maybe they couldn't plan much and ended up updating the backup when they brought server down. well... that would certainly be a thing not to post in forums.

Falls - Sanctuary · February 2009

Klath - Sanctuary wrote: »

Anyway, i do NOT believe they had backups, or a rollback would have been made. So no use to cry for a rollback anymore, they cant, simple as that.

If that was the case, then what I expect from them is to admit it. I would understand if that is what happened, and instead of requesting a rollback, I would be complaining about their poor solution to the problem, and suggesting many many things they can do to please their customers. For example, all instances of the word "suspension" in their solution should be replaced with "Permanent IP Ban". How about 200milion coins to everyone on server, so we can all have all of our skills? That would actually be fair too. The problem is that they seem really disinterested in either informing us, or consider this to be such a minor problem that a serious solution that requires some work on their part isn't necessary. For now, Ether Saga is kind of fun, but I gotta find something else since its by the same company b:chuckle.

aryannamage · February 2009

Please read this post from Xarfox.

Zaphael - Heavens Tear · February 2009

Twilyte - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Here is my "Perfect" solution: A roll back should have been done. In addition, all accounts/IPs involved with exploiting the glitch would be perma banned. Then you end up reverting the economy and erasing the collateral damage of all the purchases made because of the ill-begotten gold (ie..high end molds, mats, etc that were snapped up because peeps had limitless gold being generated). Anyone who bought Zen during that time would still have their Zen, but now they can't take advantage of a money-laundering market where Zen was being purchased at 500k+. If they purchased for the sole purpose of reselling to take advantage of that, I don't think they should be entitled to getting a cash refund (and sorting between legit peeps who wanted to buy new items and those that just wanted to profit would be impossible anyway, so everyone who bought Zen gets it...no cash refunds).

This solution serves the community in several ways:
(A) the economy reverts back to pre-crisis.
(B) players who discovered and abused the glitch are removed from game (if they couldn't resist absuing one glitch, they won't be able to resist abusing more in the future, so good riddance)
(C) those that thought they would be "slick" and profit from others abusing a glitch will get "stuck" paying real life cash.
(D) legit players will have lost nothing except the time they spent grinding/questing or otherwise obtaining things in game.

Yes, the bans are acceptable, they just aren't enough.

And to the OP....face it: members of your guild cheated (your leader in fact!) and got caught.

HAHA!

Amen. This is exactly what should have happened.

mbrunestud · February 2009

so then the new players can whine about how everyone who had an accnt before them got millions? or were u thinking of giving every new character a few hundred millions as start off? i suppose they're going to try their best to catch those who they didn't ban the first time, and if people do get away with it, as they inevitably will, isn't that what life is like anyways? people get away with scams and crimes all the time, people can be complete douches but are born rich, people can get lucky and win lotteries. i mean, how do u guys deal with that in real life?

im going to admit, since i only play PvE all this doesn't affect me. i just do quests and grind to top my lvls off and sell things from drops. wut equipment, lvls other people have is of no concern to me b/c i started low anyways and don't buy gold at all. i can only imagine how bad this is for unfair advantages in TWs. i guess my point is that if u're still playing the game, just play as u normally would and stop thinking about how lucky some other people got. they didn't do a rollback when it was the best time to do yesterday, wut makes u think their minds will be changed a day later? how is clamoring about wut they should've done going to help if its already been done? maybe they can make gold more expensive to purchase for some servers since its now worth more in game.

don't get me wrong, u guys have every right to be angry and voice ur opinions as thats wut a forum is for, but u r really going overboard w/ speculations about the staffs' intentions. obviously if they want to make money, ripping the rest of the player base off is not the way to do it. however much money they got from all the gold, its not going to compare with a sustaining and increasing player base. if the game gets a bad rep, then no one will play.

paingame · February 2009

Well I played Everquest for 5 years plus. And only 1 time did we have anything like this happen. There was a glitch after patching that allowed you to buy your drop only items for crafting from a npc ( never could buy them only on the test center have to earn them through drops). The Dev's waited a day or so then took down all the servers. Then they rolled back.
Now the roll back was funny. They did not ban anyone BUT the roll back effected the people who exploited the bug and anyone they talked with, traded with sold items to or bought items from. So if you did no trading u kept ur money and exp. If you had interacted with those people then you got rolled back 48 hours or so. I do believe they did ban someone or a few later on but even under there ToS they could have banned away.

Now anything can be justified or made to seem right in the right wording or light. But a 5 year old already knows right from wrong and well so should these idiots. Why should the thousands of people who play this game have to put up with idiots cheats hacks EXPLOIT users and BOTTERS cause you feel it is unfair. Here's a clue go play another FTP game that allows it and leave us be.
PEACE b:bye

xarfox · February 2009

XPapewaiox - Lost City wrote: »

Frankly, 70 isn't enough. If your guild leader was banned, he must have abused this glitch to epic proportions.

Precisely. Some players abused this bug with great malicious intent, and those players indeed will receive the worst of punishments.

Falls - Sanctuary · February 2009

xarfox wrote: »

Precisely. Some players abused this bug with great malicious intent, and those players indeed will receive the worst of punishments.

The intent of the players is irrelevant, and in the end wouldn't it only be what you perceived their motivations to be that will determine their fate?

The people exploiting the bugged coins even by just selling gold at auction have hurt the entire server, and I don't really care what their motivation was either. I am not asking for their punishment or event the punishment of those who exploited the bug that you all were so careless to allow to happen. The point is simple, I am hurt by this and it is no one's responsibility except PWI's.

On a side note, it sure did take a while to close down the servers didn't it? Did you sell alot of Zen in the meantime? I know that information is super top secret and all ;D which just makes the accusation that you at PWI benefited at my expense that much more difficult to disprove.

Amnesie - Sanctuary · February 2009

Ok then, we have our answer and i think the show is off.
No roll back...The ones we get caugh will be an example. Got it.
It's a sad politic to me.

I'll just move on, destroy the things i earned from this mess up, and go back to my happy lvling.
I'm from now aware of of the way you'r dealing this kind of crisis....

*Getting back to the game* b:pleased

RoarTazz - Heavens Tear · February 2009

whoever cheated really should be baned period
not fair to the rest that earn everything the right way
you have caused the game to be unbalance for the rest

Klath - Sanctuary · February 2009

On a side note, it sure did take a while to close down the servers didn't it? Did you sell alot of Zen in the meantime? I know that information is super top secret and all ;D which just makes the accusation that you at PWI benefited at my expense that much more difficult to disprove.

I believe it was 5am at PST by the time i posted about the exploit on the forums. Only active person seemed to be a moderator.
When they got on and saw the messages, they checked the AH and broadcasted "shut up people, nothing is wrong with gold trade, its players fault". And not long after, they realized "what the f*** is going on" and shut down the servers.

Falls - Sanctuary · February 2009

Klath - Sanctuary wrote: »

I believe it was 5am at PST by the time i posted about the exploit on the forums. Only active person seemed to be a moderator.
When they got on and saw the messages, they checked the AH and broadcasted "shut up people, nothing is wrong with gold trade, its players fault". And not long after they realized "what the f*** is going on" and shut down the servers.

I'm suggesting that all of the additional money they charged may have contributed to their decision not to roll back the server, and really its their fault that I can start such a rumor so easily, since they offer nothing to us as to the details of their decision making process. Oh, but I trust them >.>

Vanyadarknae - Heavens Tear · February 2009

This is a quote straight from PWI's mouth under their own Support page:

In a real world scenario, blame would be placed on the person that was behind the wheel at the time. But if it was against the law for you to drive a car (e.g. say you were underage) and your parents still gave you the keys and their consent, wouldn't it be reasonable to hold them partially liable?

My opinion:

In the real world the parents would be held responsible under the Law, they were the adults. Same as PWI is responsible, for they hire the programmers to program the game bot. The players were behind the wheel, PWI's programmers handed the players the keys. What is PWI's liability going to be for their Epic Failure which caused this whole mess? They have not shown me anything that they have taken the responsibility for their mistake other than make examples of players by banning them.

Thanks,

VanyaDarknae

Eredhel - Heavens Tear · February 2009

I am one of the players who are very unhappy and dissatisfied that a rollback did not happen.

Many, many people gained a very unfair advantage by being dishonest, there is no way it can be called "clever use of game mechanics", etc. It was abuse of a bug, it was illegal.

The sad truth is that the investors in PWI, the players who actually payed RL money to purchase cash shop items and did not abuse the bug got screwed over. As a simple example it would cost a player US$200 to buy cash shop items to the server value of ~20mil (like a Phoenix, Herc, etc). Now many people can simply convert their dishonestly-earned millions and purchase any item available. The empty "legendary equipment" catagories on the AH yesterday was laughable

PWI failed the investors, the players who were willing to pay hard earned RL money, they gave the dishonest individuals an unacceptable advantage.

A rollback was the ONLY course of action they (PWI) should ever have considered, and because PWI failed to protect my investment I will never again purchase gold.

A very disgruntled customer.

LegoverLass - Heavens Tear · February 2009

so now whenever you check a players info ,, will you think ..

... did he/she get that great equipment legitimately? ,, i know i'll be wondering when ppl check me if their thinking that about me ... the same with aero gear and mounts even clothing ,,, so because of the epic fail the whole game is now a web of distrust

NAME AND SHAME THE ABUSERS

i can see its the only way to preserve the integrity of the honest players amongst us

Masterseth - Lost City · February 2009

Amnesie, I understand what you are saying. They had a very easy opportunity to make some funds, and they took it. I know I may have been the type to do such things in the past. I know good people who would probally do it, and I think we could all use your excuse. When it comes down to it though, as I have learned, abusing a glitch at any level, no matter how trivial it is, is still abusing a glitch. I have become a much more honorable gamer in the past 6 months while playing a different mmo, and I have learned to respect the game company and players a great deal more. Before I spent that time, I probally would abuse glitches and say it was the company's fault. Now I know that a truely honest player would not take advantage of the game, at any level, because this is unfair to other players and the company. (Plus, you also feel great about earning things on your own, without glitches, even if others may have used the game's glitches.)

I just want you to see that you have to come to a point of understanding to really see that it is wrong, because I would feel the same way you do if I hadn't experienced what I have experienced in the past 6+ months.

Amnesie - Sanctuary · February 2009

I know this is wrong Masterseth. I also played severals Mmo, and i'm confronted with such a thing for the first time. So yeah, i learned from it, i won't accept a single made up gold ever from now cause i did realize how this
can contribute to the mess up.
I also destroyed my molds cause, yeah, there's really no fun to wear a thing you didn't earn in blood and swear.

But that was once again not the purpose.
The problem is just the game is only part free. And players import golds in-game with real money. This brings many problem about roll backs, economic stability, and policy about glitches.
But whatever, PWI's team messed up, this kind of glitches that touches economy are i think the worst for the game.
So yeah, the banned ones are unhappy, the unbanned are too, some are for evrybody to be ban, some other want's nobody to be ban.
These are politics question, and whatever, developpers bring it in.
A fast rollback would have been the better thing to do.
But knowing this would'nt be anymore, all decisions would make unhappy ones. Banishing a few is for me one of the worst to choose.

Once again this is only my opinion and i'm only talking about politic.
Not defending somebody.

I'm know tired of this discussion, it seems things won't change and i have better things to do...my sword need some hot blood !

wyrde · February 2009

Eredhel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

PWI failed the investors, the players who were willing to pay hard earned RL money, they gave the dishonest individuals an unacceptable advantage.

These people are not investors. The people that invest in PW are those that buy stock (NYSE:PWRD).

People that buy zen are simply paying for a service that PWE provides. That service is to simply convert RL cash to an in-game exchange medium. PWE is, in fact, not liable for any other service (including keeping the servers themselves running).

If anything, the surge in zen sales by those exploiting the bug actually helped the stock holders. Just like the surge in zen sales that occurs anyway during the release of new fashion, the release of new items, etc.

I am not, however, in any way saying that PWE intentionally attempted to profit from the actions of the exploiting players. The delay in action was simply because they needed time to evaluate the problem, present the information to management, and await the management decision.

Most of whom were asleep at the time the crisis was first noticed and needed to be woken up. (My sympathies to the admin(s) that were probably just getting some shuteye when their phone(s) started ringing.)

The decision process is not a quick one, or one taken lightly. And, as another poster noted, was done with information that the player base simply does not possess. And it took time to collect that information, queries had to be written against the log tables, reports generated, and numbers displayed. And probably done again a dozen times. And with the copies of the logs, those reports can be refined to target more specific data, and the number of actions taken both increased and more finely targeted.

-w

Faustinna - Heavens Tear · February 2009

It's over and done with, no point to continue debating. They've made up there minds and will not roll-back. I know of a few people who still have over 100mil from all this, they have everything they want in game too. I've spent about 200$ on this game, still don't have everything i want and spent money out of my pocket to get my things. Then this, now people who never spent 1$ have 20 times better things then myself because they exploited. This is complete BS and unfair.

I haven't decided on quitting or not, but i'm soured on this experience. And once I get soured, it's downhill from there.

In the future, please test your patches carefully. And if bugs like this come out, bring the servers down instantly and do roll-backs. Don't have to ban anyone, just rollback so no one profited. It's the best fix for this.

But a good experience for PWI was this. Too bad it cost them, and will continue to, a lot of loyal players who spent a lot of real money.

About the Ban.

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