About the Ban.

Amnesie - Sanctuary
Amnesie - Sanctuary Posts: 18 Arc User
edited February 2009 in General Discussion
I already posted this in another thread, but i really want this to be solved so here is a new thread.


Once again :

Devs have made a mistake, that happens, they corrected it, grats and great.
Devs want some players to be banned ? => That's unforgivable.
Hackers must be banned, bots must be banned.
In our case we have players who find out an item can be sold more than it's bought. That's so obvious ! So huge !
That does not make players criminals !
If you allow a such thing in real life, with bread for exemple, 75% of the population will make profit on it.
The only person to blame here are the devs, they're the ones who permitted that profit.
It's like you show a candie to a kid, and you smash him if he takes it.
Now you did a great job with this emergency situation.
But you MUST know assume you show the candies, and get the banned back.


I'd like players and a Gm to answer. Thanks.
Post edited by Amnesie - Sanctuary on
«13

Comments

  • Maiya - Lost City
    Maiya - Lost City Posts: 2,686 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    Since the bug (I think) involved something with pigments and selling to a NPC for insane price. Doing the reselling and buying was abusing a glitch/bug, which is bannable according to ToS.
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  • Evilixx - Heavens Tear
    Evilixx - Heavens Tear Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    It does make them criminals if they knew it was bugged yet kept on doing it. Can people really say they thought with the patch the Devs made it possible to make tons of easy money? I think not.

    People knew it was a glich. They knew they were taking advantage of a situation. A better example would be if you seen a broken window at a T.V. store, and took a T.V., should you not be arrested for stealing? Or should the police chew out the store owner and say the people that stole are good because he let his window get broken therefor has to give away TV's.
  • Amnesie - Sanctuary
    Amnesie - Sanctuary Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    But look the situation here...it's quite unusual.
    Many peoples have made profit with it. Hundreds, maybe thousands.
    I myself have earned 2 molds, a fashion clothe and 1M coins, gived by another player. Some people i know made up 20M...An we're not baned.
    70 players over a thousand are banned. Our Faction leader is one of them.
    Where is the justice in here ?
    Like i said before..Is this a public lapidation of few ones, for the exemple ?
    How many players would have to be ban for this te be fair ?
    Is there a cap of profit you can't pass ? Like 50M ?
    This is just annoying.

    The few baned i know are on PWI since months and where just as fair play and as nice as can be. And i'm sure most of the other baned ones were too.

    But this is really to obvious. The glitch was really to huge.

    I'm talking about Justice and Ethic here.

    Devs CAN'T just ban 70 players for exemple, and CAN'T ban evrybody who earned something about it.
    The situation is unusual and was provoced by devs.
    The banned ones MUST be bringed back, with or without the coins and the gold they earned, for this to be fair.

    This 70 baned decision isn't acceptable. b:angry
  • XPapewaiox - Lost City
    XPapewaiox - Lost City Posts: 178 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    Frankly, 70 isn't enough. If your guild leader was banned, he must have abused this glitch to epic proportions. I for one am glad he's gone, and can only hope in the coming days more are banned. I'm glad to see you publically admitting to accepting tainted goods yourself. I bet your build did more damage to the economy than everyone on LC combined. Than god I'm there and not on Sanctuary.
  • Amnesie - Sanctuary
    Amnesie - Sanctuary Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    Plus your TV boutique thing does not suite the situation.
    We're not talking about stealing anything.
    We're talking about making profit with an item.
    Talking about traders will suite better.
  • Mistigris - Heavens Tear
    Mistigris - Heavens Tear Posts: 61 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    Evilixx - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    It does make them criminals if they knew it was bugged yet kept on doing it. Can people really say they thought with the patch the Devs made it possible to make tons of easy money? I think not.

    People knew it was a glich. They knew they were taking advantage of a situation. A better example would be if you seen a broken window at a T.V. store, and took a T.V., should you not be arrested for stealing? Or should the police chew out the store owner and say the people that stole are good because he let his window get broken therefor has to give away TV's.

    This is a great translation of the glitch abuse into real life. There is absolutely no way those who abused the glitch could possibly think what they were doing was legitimate. They violated the ToS intentionally and they deserved to be banned. I just hope the devs managed to track them all down. I don't expect the economy to settle for a while since it's highly doubtful they found all the ill-gotten coin, but at least it's a start. Since I don't have much money in-game (I have no idea how I got so poor!) I expect to be screwed as far as purchasing things from catshops or the auction house for a while. b:sad
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  • Tigriss - Heavens Tear
    Tigriss - Heavens Tear Posts: 760 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    They banned who they felt abused it. I feel the ban is just. I also hope the GMs cought everyone of the low life bug exploiting scumbags.
    "Jesus fricking christ on a pogo stick. Your a mass of fricking idiots I swear!"
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  • Mistigris - Heavens Tear
    Mistigris - Heavens Tear Posts: 61 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    Amnesie - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Plus your TV boutique thing does not suite the situation.
    We're not talking about stealing anything.
    We're talking about making profit with an item.
    Talking about traders will suite better.

    Traders would not suit better. Perhaps buying a shirt, taking it back to the store for a refund, and being given thousands of dollars instead of what it was actually worth would be better. And then doing it over and over and over and over.
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  • Tigriss - Heavens Tear
    Tigriss - Heavens Tear Posts: 760 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    MY brother EX used to go to target buy stuff on sale. Then take it back to walmart and say she lost the receit and get full price back for it. She is now sitting in jail. Kinda like what people did yesterday. Their punishment getting banned.

    Edit:Was trying to quote Mistigris my quote isnt working right.
    "Jesus fricking christ on a pogo stick. Your a mass of fricking idiots I swear!"
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  • Amnesie - Sanctuary
    Amnesie - Sanctuary Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    So just like auctions. ;)


    But nvm, we agree on a point : If this decision would be fair, it will be with a massive ban of all "profiters".
    And can devs really ban evrybody ? I don't think so.

    I maintain 70 baned are unacceptable.
    This is a "let's hang him for exemple", middle age politic decision.
    I eard you devs have taken back a lot of money from servers, to stabilise the economy.
    Can't you just take the profiters players' money back, without banning them ?
    I maintain this mess is devs responsability, and i maintain they must solve the ban question.

    Betterwise, that's a reason for players to want a roll back.
  • Ppjenga - Heavens Tear
    Ppjenga - Heavens Tear Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    Amnesie - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Plus your TV boutique thing does not suite the situation.
    We're not talking about stealing anything.
    We're talking about making profit with an item.
    Talking about traders will suite better.

    Some people fail to realize what keeps this game running, period. It's money. Not your coveted little in-game pixels. It's the real kind that allows the game to exist in the first place. Just think about the people who actually buy things for this game, then turn around and sell it. When the whole boutique trading situation gets screwed, the economy is gone, and so is the game. Too many people getting something for free... it really bugs the hell out of me.
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  • Ethas - Heavens Tear
    Ethas - Heavens Tear Posts: 85 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    What about the players i see got banned but still demand a ROLLBACK?

    Are they really guilty ? Where is the SHAME LIST with all the exploit users
  • Tigriss - Heavens Tear
    Tigriss - Heavens Tear Posts: 760 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    I feel more people including the 70 should be banned. I garantee more bans are comming. They are gonna be going through the records when they get back Monday to see if there are anymore who did it.
    "Jesus fricking christ on a pogo stick. Your a mass of fricking idiots I swear!"
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  • Reikara - Heavens Tear
    Reikara - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,321 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    So basically you and your little buddies who abused and gained from the glitch dont want to be viewed as scumbags and don't want to be banned for it.

    *Rolls eyes* Please, give me a break..
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  • Tigriss - Heavens Tear
    Tigriss - Heavens Tear Posts: 760 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    Maybe she is sad that her faction cant do anything cause their leader is banned?? Maybe thats why she is b:cry?
    "Jesus fricking christ on a pogo stick. Your a mass of fricking idiots I swear!"
    -Saitada
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  • Amnesie - Sanctuary
    Amnesie - Sanctuary Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    I permit me to quote two persons, here's the first one :

    "Greetings All,

    Over the last few days, I have heard words BUG, EXPLOIT, ****. Now I am hearing people were banned or shall I say accounts suspended. Myself and My husband own an RPG using a game bot (program) as well. We have never banned anyone for OUR mistakes when new patches, features, quests, etc. are added to the game. We stop the game and fix the problem. A bot DOES NOT produce bugs on their own. It is a mess up in the coding that causes a bug. A person or persons put the coding into the program not the program itself. The most commonly used language to program a game bot is C++ and trust me when I say this, what happened yesterday was not the fault of any player nor was it a bug in the program. The situation yesterday was completely and totally an error on the programmers part of PWI. I will in full detail explain this: You buy a Cash Shop piece of clothing, go to the mail box which has a quest and turn in for dyes, then go to the merchant and sell them. This is an eloquently done quest not a bug as everyone is describing. The problem I see is the amount of gold received for selling the dyes, which again is an error by the programmer not a bug. Players should not be held responsible for such a huge error on the people programming the game bot in PWI. A PWI Dev finally responded around 1 PM eastern or 10 AM pacific time and the servers went down. It is extremely unfortunate that PWI has banned anyone for this to make an example for their programmers wrong doing. I can understand a rollback and all goes back to the way it was with the last back-up of games files before patch 77 was released.
    I challenge PWI Dev's to grab a cup of coffee after all the chaos has passed and truly examine the situation and realize that this is their complete and total fault and no player should have to pay for their mistake or made examples of through a ban or suspension of their account. Honestly, after how PWI has handled this situation and I have contributed close to 4000.00 RL dollars on both my account and my husbands to promote PWI since September, 08 I am not sure if I will continue the game. I am hoping in time my views will change, because I feel PWI has a beautifully done MMORPG, but their values and business decisions have much to be improved.

    Thanks,

    VanyaDarknae"
  • Clunker - Heavens Tear
    Clunker - Heavens Tear Posts: 162 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    OMG. stop QQ-ing. you know that it's a bug. and you chose to abuse it. any bug abuse SHOULD result into a ban. so yeah, GG to you exploiter.

    KThxBye
  • Shamina - Heavens Tear
    Shamina - Heavens Tear Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    They knew what they were doing. Ban well deserved.
  • Amnesie - Sanctuary
    Amnesie - Sanctuary Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    And here's the second one :


    "If I may, let me pose a hypothetical situation, and see the community's response to it. Suppose you were in a class, and your class took an exam. After the results of the exam were released, it was revealed that a good percentage of the class had cheated on it, thus negatively influencing the curve, and hurting the whole class. The professor, in his effort to clean up the mess, takes measures to root out the cheaters and void their scores. However, this process is found to only be partially effective, and many cheaters go undetected. What do you think would be the best way to handle this? Would it be to accept that the professor's actions are sufficient and that rooting out only most of the cheaters is enough? Or would you demand a retest? I think it is clear that most would want a retest, and PWI's version of a retest is the rollback. Understandably, those that got an A honestly would be annoyed, but for the good of the community, a retest is a necessary measure.

    Many may argue that this bears no resemblance to the issue that is ravaging PWI currently. In some respects I would have to agree, however, the major elements parallel eachother. The cheaters gained an unfair advantage over those who played the game honestly. There are those that argue that what others do is of no concern to them and does not affect them. This may be true for you, but not for the majority. The goal of many of the higher level players is to PK and TW. Others' skill lvl, refining lvl, equipment, etc play directly into the equation; it simply isn't fair to everyone who plays PWI if any cheater goes unchecked. Given the vast scope and complexity of this problem, it simply isn't practical to believe that the GM's will catch all the cheaters.(Since all transactions, trades, skills/items bought, etc need to be tracked) It seems to me the only reasonable solution is a rollback. Please act quickly, because the longer it takes, the more fallout it will create.

    As a corollary, it seems like the majority of responses advocate a rollback. Why, then, is it not being implemented ? "
  • Reikara - Heavens Tear
    Reikara - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,321 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    Stop trying to victimise yourselves, accept the consequences of your own actions and grow up. You abused the glitch knowingly, and now you're trying escape the consequences with weak arguments and quotes taken out of context.
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  • Amnesie - Sanctuary
    Amnesie - Sanctuary Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    The point isn't to wash profiters hands, the point is that the banning is not an acceptable solution, and that the mess is 95% devs' responsability.
  • Tigriss - Heavens Tear
    Tigriss - Heavens Tear Posts: 760 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    And if your faction leader had not been banned would you be here QQ to get the ban undone.
    "Jesus fricking christ on a pogo stick. Your a mass of fricking idiots I swear!"
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  • Zoe - Heavens Tear
    Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    Amnesie - Sanctuary wrote: »
    The point isn't to wash profiters hands, the point is that the banning is not an acceptable solution, and that the mess is 95% devs' responsability.

    The mess is the PLAYERS responsibility. They chose to abuse it, they deserved the ban and it should be perma-ban.
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  • Amnesie - Sanctuary
    Amnesie - Sanctuary Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    I'm trying to solve this freaking siutation, and i'm not doing it for me here.
    So please, keep your "grow up" things for you. Thanks.
  • Junon - Heavens Tear
    Junon - Heavens Tear Posts: 181 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    The mess is the PLAYERS responsibility. They chose to abuse it, they deserved the ban and it should be perma-ban.

    It's both sides.

    The GMs for allowing this bug to get out and not doing a rollback when it is clearly needed.

    And the players for abusing the bug in the first place. When players have a chance to better themselves at a game of course not everyone will stand around and miss that chance.
  • Amnesie - Sanctuary
    Amnesie - Sanctuary Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    I can't honestly tell if i were here if he had not be banned, because it's not the case. The "If ?" questions are almost impossible to deal with, and useless.
    that i can tell you is : i'm not thinking only about him at all, that's this politic whic pisses me off.

    Now i don't think your question and my answer make any constructivity.
  • King_Solomon - Heavens Tear
    King_Solomon - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,341 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    Amnesie - Sanctuary wrote: »
    The point isn't to wash profiters hands, the point is that the banning is not an acceptable solution, and that the mess is 95% devs' responsability.

    yes were the patch well tested we wouldn't have that problem so it's their duty to get everything fixed.

    perhaps the very first person who discovered the bug had found it by accident so the first act wasn't a fault of the player but OBVIOUSLY all following acts were to EXPLOIT it and must be punished. same applied in real life.
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  • Foxx_trott - Heavens Tear
    Foxx_trott - Heavens Tear Posts: 802 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    For anyone who abused this glitch and did this switch-a-roo and sold the pigments at an insane price to a NPC. They KNEW they were doing something that was wrong! They KNEW this was a glitch, that was going to be fixed. They KNEW they were taking a chance in eventually getting banned.

    If they didn't KNOW these things, not only should they still be banned, but they should not be allowed to procreate, and should get their thingy's **** off for being too stupid to be added to the human gene pool.

    At least thats the way I see it, lol.
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  • Junon - Heavens Tear
    Junon - Heavens Tear Posts: 181 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    Foxx_trott - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    For anyone who abused this glitch and did this switch-a-roo and sold the pigments at an insane price to a NPC. They KNEW they were doing something that was wrong! They KNEW this was a glitch, that was going to be fixed. They KNEW they were taking a chance in eventually getting banned.

    If they didn't KNOW these things, not only should they still be banned, but they should not be allowed to procreate, and should get their thingy's **** off for being too stupid to be added to the human gene pool.

    At least thats the way I see it, lol.

    I agree. It's pretty much common knowledge that abusing a bug in-game is against the ToS for basically any game. The people that abused this bug weren't mindless tards, they knew what they was doing wasn't supposed happen.

    I say just perma-ban the idiots that are already suspended and any others that may be found that abused this bug.
  • Faustinna - Heavens Tear
    Faustinna - Heavens Tear Posts: 176 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    An ATM repair man finishes working on an upgrade for an ATM and leaves. A little while later the ATM begins shooting out 20$ bills left and right, people begin picking them up. The ATM however has an endless supply of said 20$ bills, so people just keep picking them up. They take this money and buy houses, cars, clothes, jewlery, everything they've ever wanted. The economy is in shambles, business close because of it, a recession turns into a depression. When those responsible for it were brought before the judge, they said "It was the repair mans fault! HE should have fixed it better so we don't get tempted!".

    Now really, if you're watching this on the news, you just lost your job, the economy is in shambles, you might lose your home, and someone blame the repair man for not doing his job right because of it, you would say "oh he's so right, forgive and forget"?

    It's YOU people who exploited this who ruined the game. You're greedy, selfish, small-minded children who need to grow UP and take responsability for your own actions. Stop blaming the world for your behavior. You have free will, you know right from wrong, you CHOSE wrong. Now pay the consequences for it. You've already destroyed this game, so being banned won't be much of a punishment for you anyway. Enjoy what you've done. Because destroying things is SO much more fun then creating right?
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