Light Armor vs. Mage Armor
I've read countless guides on Clerics/EPs/Healers in PW, including ones from various other
servers, fansites, and wikis.
Yet, none of them clearly outline the advantages and disadvantages of light armor.
So, can we discuss this? I've not much experience and I would like some feedback.
Here's some things that I vaguely understand about light armor and 'arcane' armor:
Light Armor~
>'Best of both worlds' phys def and mag def, though neither are very high.
>Better for PvP against archers, Blademasters, etc. [ basically anything that is physicial dmg ]
>Medium to high damage/healing output
>Squishy, especially at low levels without upgraded HP armor, but survivable at higher levels.
>Crits more often, though it is inconsistent, unreliable, and not often enough to be a big factor.
>Low HP
Arcane Armor [ Pure Int ]~
>High mag def
>Best against Wizards, Magic based Venos, and other clerics.
>Very bad against physical damagers.
>Very squishy.
>Very high damage/healing output
>Extremely party based.
>Can run faster than LA, but the difference is negligible [confirm?]
>Low HP
Well, this is all I can think of so far. Please add/remove/adjust the list. I have played neither for very long, and this is just my understanding at this level.
And no, I do not like adding con at all, to either builds. Just because, in the long run, one int point is far more beneficial than one con point. I dislike the hybrid-ish bad-at-nothing-but-good-at-nothing stuff. Of course, this would mean that the pure int EP must depend on a party almost all of the time.
Question: In the long run, is it worth sacrificing damage and healing output for more physical defense?
As far as PvP is concerned, GENERALLY, which armor would be better?
Also, what have veteran light armor EPs done in the past? What is their playing style?
Thanks all.
servers, fansites, and wikis.
Yet, none of them clearly outline the advantages and disadvantages of light armor.
So, can we discuss this? I've not much experience and I would like some feedback.
Here's some things that I vaguely understand about light armor and 'arcane' armor:
Light Armor~
>'Best of both worlds' phys def and mag def, though neither are very high.
>Better for PvP against archers, Blademasters, etc. [ basically anything that is physicial dmg ]
>Medium to high damage/healing output
>Squishy, especially at low levels without upgraded HP armor, but survivable at higher levels.
>Crits more often, though it is inconsistent, unreliable, and not often enough to be a big factor.
>Low HP
Arcane Armor [ Pure Int ]~
>High mag def
>Best against Wizards, Magic based Venos, and other clerics.
>Very bad against physical damagers.
>Very squishy.
>Very high damage/healing output
>Extremely party based.
>Can run faster than LA, but the difference is negligible [confirm?]
>Low HP
Well, this is all I can think of so far. Please add/remove/adjust the list. I have played neither for very long, and this is just my understanding at this level.
And no, I do not like adding con at all, to either builds. Just because, in the long run, one int point is far more beneficial than one con point. I dislike the hybrid-ish bad-at-nothing-but-good-at-nothing stuff. Of course, this would mean that the pure int EP must depend on a party almost all of the time.
Question: In the long run, is it worth sacrificing damage and healing output for more physical defense?
As far as PvP is concerned, GENERALLY, which armor would be better?
Also, what have veteran light armor EPs done in the past? What is their playing style?
Thanks all.
![;) ;)](https://forum.arcgames.com/pwi/resources/emoji/wink.png)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Good things come in small packages~<3
Good things come in small packages~<3
Post edited by tiny on
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Comments
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Light armor shines on wizards, because wizards have a self buff that doubles their physical defense. This buff combined with other physical defense buffs gives a nice physical defense. Clerics do not have this buff, therefore light armor will never shine as much on a cleric as a wizard. Wizards are also a damage dealing class, therefore the critical from dexterity to equip light armor comes into play much more often then a cleric.
Pure magic is not party dependent, it is one of the best solo builds due to high damage output. As far as the long run, I don't see light armor the best cleric build in the long run. The two strongest builds to me are pure magic for attack, or vitality build for support. You haven't mentioned vitality build, but vitality build has the most survivability and is best in pvp in my opinion, but it is also the most party dependent.
Out of your two builds though I would recommend light armor for pvp. When I say pvp, I mean group combat or territorial war, not duels or 1 vs 1 pk. With sleep it stacks the odds in favor of pure magic to maximize damage output in duels, but in group pvp and dungeons I think it is best to stay alive and continue to help the party. Light armor does this better then pure magic to me.
To sum it up. If you want pure magic high damage roll a wizard. If you want a gravy light armor build, roll wizard. If you want to be a strong support healer, you will need to add some vitality in my opinion. I know you probably don't want to hear this, but a dead cleric isn't healing, buffing, debuffing, or damaging anyone.0 -
Keep in mind that if you wear light armor, you gain some physical defence(not enough to survive against blademasters), and lose some magic defence and die to magic easily.
Cleric has a shield that absorbs 80% physical attacks into MP for 20seconds every 30seconds. So it's more viable to pump into HP. I have a level 90+ friend that plays con cleric, he has 8k HP with just +5 robes, it's impossible to take him down with magic, and he's practically invincible when he flips on his physical shield.
Light armor is very overrated, it gives somewhat defence towards both sides, but not enough to save you. While 5% crit gain is not enough to be noticed unless you have 3crit swords and 3crit rings to complement it.ULTIMATE TOPIC:
See 3 RQ get owned by 1 WB
copy and paste onto your web link
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=334210 -
I see. Thanks for the replies.
Wizard is out of the question, I dislike them, and I love the ability to heal.
So that would leave one option I suppose, based on your replies:
A vitality cleric.
Hmmm. Yes, I wanted to roll away from that path very much.
But maybe I'll rethink it.
I've rolled with light armor to level 3X in MY-EN, just before CB started,
and I'm playing light armor right now in CB.
I'm totally satisfied with how LA has been working so far, but I guess that will all change late-game
My playing style will include pvp, mainly TW and possibly arenas and such.
And I've noticed that there are tons of archers who are pvp-orientated.
Knowing this, I've heard that LA clerics are an archer's worst fear.
With that 10 second downtime between plume shields, I'm assuming a vit cleric will be
extremely vulnerable to phys attacks. Also, archers specialize in catching the target off guard.
Would that plume shield help in that situation?
As you can tell, I really like light armor, so I'm throwing out all the advantages that I've been
going over in my mind. If, in the end, there are more cons than pros, I promise I will convert. xD[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Good things come in small packages~<30 -
Light armor gets owned by everyone :eek:
If you play con cleric and you're get caught off guard, you always have enough HP to tank the first few shots then flip on the shield, Sleep the attacker then run.ULTIMATE TOPIC:
See 3 RQ get owned by 1 WB
copy and paste onto your web link
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=334210 -
I dont know about PvP but, if it makes sense for any class to wear light armor besides archer, its the cleric
They get both physical def buff and mdef buff, which will make you way more resistant than an archer of the same lvl, plus you have healing and physical + magic dmg
If you spam whisht heart (dont know the name of PWI version right now) at the beginning of a duel, I think its basically impossible for an archer to win, since he has no means of recovering HP, and his def is mediocre on all sides0 -
Faruxue pretty much summed it up. I will try to give example. Say you are a light armor build with 2000 hp, and your friend is a vitality build with 3000 hp. Your fire a physical attack at them and it does 1000 damage, they fire a physical attack at you and it does 700 points of damage. You took less damage, but it's still 1/3 of your hit points, same as theirs. Now lets say you fire a magical attack. Yours hits them for 700 damage, but theirs hit you for 1000 damage. It won't take but 2-3 magical attacks for them to kill you, but it will take you 4-5 magic attacks to kill them.
As you can see, light armor over vitality build offers no more real survivability versus physical attacks without a buff like the wizard's Stone Barrier. Light armor, however, suffers more damage from magic attack, and with a low hit point pool to go with it. As far as the numbers, I just made them up, don't flame for inaccuracy. They are meant to get the point across that vitality build is more survivable on cleric then light armor.0 -
I dont know about PvP but, if it makes sense for any class to wear light armor besides archer, its the cleric
They get both physical def buff and mdef buff, which will make you way more resistant than an archer of the same lvl, plus you have healing and physical + magic dmg
If you spam whisht heart (dont know the name of PWI version right now) at the beginning of a duel, I think its basically impossible for an archer to win, since he has no means of recovering HP, and his def is mediocre on all sides
I disagree. Wizard makes MUCH more valid light armor build then cleric due to Stone Barrier buff and critical. Spamming ironheart(wishtheart) works early to mid level, later archers damage and critical will be too much for you to spam heal through it. Duels are quite meaningless as well. They are fun, don't get me wrong, but with hierograms not involved you don't see the whole picture. Which is if you don't sleep them and set them up for a power attack, you have little chance to kill them when they have a hierogram on. They, on the other hand, have a much higher capacity to one shot kill you due to better damage and high critical.0 -
Yeah Im not taking hieros into account... dueling with hieros sounds stupid anyway, the fun duels are the long ones (love warrior vs warrior with diamond sutra ^^)
By this I mean, for someone to die you need to kill him within 10 seconds, thats why Im talking about the duration
I checked the skills and the earth buff gives 150% def when in holy, so now I see your point, 150% is HUGE... no wonder Ive seen screens of mages with 10k + all o_o0 -
wow. Okay, thanks everyone, I guess I will drop the light armor build, then. =/
Maybe late late game I'll restat to pure int, but we'll see, that's a little while from now. xD
As far as stat points go for a con/int cleric which would be better?
6 int
3 con
1 str
or
7 int
2 con
1 str
thanks! xD
Edit: I've also heard of a con/int build where you keep int and str mimimum for wep and armor, and then all the rest in con.
My thoughts: wttttfffudddge???? :O[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Good things come in small packages~<30 -
There are quite a few light armor priests, many of them quite pro, so I'm not knocking light armor for cleric. I'm just trying to let you know the game mechanics. The point of any game is to have fun, so if you have fun in light armor and/or think light armor looks good then by all means roll with it.
As far as the two builds you just listed, it doesn't matter. The only real decision to make in the beginning is light armor or robes, because once you click a point into dexterity it takes a restat scroll to get it off. You can always add more vitality or more magic to meet your playing style. I like the 3 vitality build myself.
Personally, I would roll full magic in the beginning to do the quests fast and level, then starting pumping a lot of vitality later. Perhaps around level 40 stop pumping magic and start pumping full vitality until it meets your build goal. You want to have your build ready to rock no later then level 60, because this is when AOE parties, pvp, and dungeons start to kick up. Until then I highly recommend leveling as fast as possible to get 60 for your transcendant cultivation and 60 holy hall weapon.0 -
Edit: I've also heard of a con/int build where you keep int and str mimimum for wep and armor, and then all the rest in con.
My thoughts: wttttfffudddge???? :O
Minimum magic to equip magic weapon your level = 3 magic per level
Minimum strength to equip robes your level = 1 strength every 2 levels
Vitality build = 1 strength, 3 vitality, 6 magic every two levels0 -
Minimum magic to equip magic weapon your level = 3 magic per level
Minimum strength to equip robes your level = 1 strength every 2 levels
Vitality build = 1 strength, 3 vitality, 6 magic every two levels
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
Silly me. xD[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Good things come in small packages~<30 -
I'm a light armor Cleric. Ask if you have questions.[SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=17949001&dateline=1225562899[/SIGPIC]0
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you are bad
light armor gives u LESS survivability in PvP (yes LESS, not MORE)
LESS Damage
LESS Hit points
LESS healing power
in the long run u will eventually outdamage a robe Priest because of the Critical Hit rate but u still lack the magical defense0 -
I don't care about PvP[SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=17949001&dateline=1225562899[/SIGPIC]0
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Deadbone - Lost City wrote: »you are bad
light armor gives u LESS survivability in PvP (yes LESS, not MORE)
LESS Damage
LESS Hit points
LESS healing power
in the long run u will eventually outdamage a robe Priest because of the Critical Hit rate but u still lack the magical defense
hows the hell would u lack the magic def , u can still wear robes , the hp loss isnt big at all be cuase u onlt get 10 hp per vit so like if u add 80 vit ull only have 800 more hp witch isnt huge at all, as for dmg ur dmg will be still good just not awsome , tbh i dun think vit matters much after like 70 cuz of the hp + gear u will get . and light armor is kida useless in pve from lvs 50-70 cuz of all the magic mobs0 -
I wouldn't agree, since the light armour makes u all rounder...giving u equal chance against all classes, its a play it safe option i think.
the only problem with light armour (like with all armours) is that u have to go a specific amount of points for it lv 2 is like 13 str and 13 dex if i remember (chest plating), so it would leave u on the weaker side of attacking and healing compared to a robe cleric, but it increases surviablitiy a lot against most things, plus if a cleric goes against a ranged class all we have to do is nock on a few ironheart blessings and then use the attack the opponent is weakest against (plume bolt against wizards and greater cyclone against archers, this is before u get the bigger skills), so i think light armour clerics r pretty good, i'm one and i love the ability of NOT dieing the moment something hits me!!!0 -
Guys guys guys get real, how much defference do you think a pure wiz/cleric and an LA wiz/cleric have on their dmg?
I saw people high lvls testing that with same gears (somewhere in the wizard forums) and the defference was always about 400 dmg (i can't recall lvls but I think they were 50-ish), I mean lol. That made me even more sure about my LA Cleric build. Yes we do have the hp problem but that can be sold in a variety of ways. I think that casters need the balance the light armor offers.
Also if the magic mobs are your problem with your light armor, simply switch to robes till you're done, everyone can efford that.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Some clerics do use light armor, but it is not nearly as common for clerics as for mages. Do note that there are no heal crits so LA will always have worse healing then a 7mag-2vit-1str con cleric.
Light armor should not be used if you are a low level or if you mainly do PvE. Yes, phys mobs will do less dmg to you, but you can use a con or mag build and just use 1 extra ironheart to live.
Light armor is for clerics who are mainly PvP. Even then there is still debate over which is better. LA or con mag armor. Note: full mag as caeyon's guide recommends is not a viable option. You will always die in 1 or 2 hits in PvP. I, like Deadbone ^^ recommend using robes and a con build. You will do more damage and health (even if you use some pdef shards). Also, and most important, you will have stronger heals, and we are the main healing class so that in my opinion, that ability should be what we try to not gimp.
Hope that helped ^^0 -
Ppl who love to PvP, freeze , debuff, attack, sleep, get away and repeat.
You can do that with LA, and robe build. But i hope you know that you loose around 800-1k dmg with LA build then with 7mag 2vit build. Talking about 70+ lvs when you are actually pvping.
My pathetic seals can hold a lv65 barb very long now, if i was the same lv + extra dmg, i think it makes all the difference.
For PvE, go robe, you have the gods gift of long ranged magic attacks so KITE, or for lazy ones, 1ironheart is enuff to keep you alive.
But again, asking which one is better depends from person to person and his game style. My is tank magic mobs, kite psy mobs or kill them before they even get to me.b:dirty0 -
I think light armor is really a cleric trap. Although it really raises a clerics phy defence it's really not worth spending points on the Dex. Dex in my opinion is useless to a cleric. You can make up phy defence by having at least 38 or more str and your HEALING and pots. Believe me I really regret putting so much into my dex and using light armor.
BTW I would lov to find someone selling a intermediate reset note.0 -
Deadbone - Lost City wrote: »you are bad
light armor gives u LESS survivability in PvP (yes LESS, not MORE)
LESS Damage
LESS Hit points
LESS healing power
in the long run u will eventually outdamage a robe Priest because of the Critical Hit rate but u still lack the magical defense
Sorry but I can't let this one slide... While I respect Deadbone and acknowledge that she is DANG hard to kill in TW most of her arguments do not hold water.
1. Less damage: as I remember she plays a full con cleric 6mag/3con/1str every two levels light arm build is 6mag/2str/2dex. How can they be doing less damage when their magic stats are EXACTLY the same? Also as far as damage goes the extra crits that a light armor build gets factor in so a light armor build actually does a bit more damage than a full con build
2. Less HP: Now this really is the weak point of the light armor build, no points for con so hp is low. If you are going to be a light armor cleric prepare to refine the **** out of your gear and use lots of HP gems. Being a light armor cleric is expensive that way and will never enjoy the insane HP pool that Deadbone has as a full vit cleric with HP stones.
3. Less Healing power: see point one. Same magic = same heals
4. Lack of magical defense: This is a very common misconception. Most of us just look at the numbers we see on our character screen and think that the higher the number the better. While that is true it might surprise you to know that the % damage reduce # is really the important number here. Find that by mousing over your p def/ m def numbers. For example when I went light armor (at lvl 78) I only gained about 2400 p def numberwise but I gained over 30% on my physical damage reduced percentage. I lost over 2000 m def but only 6% damage reduce magically. so remember a little # goes a long way at the bottom end and a big number at the top end does very little.
Why Deadbone will get owned in late game: If Deadbone continues with her full HP build (Robe wearing full con with HP gems) she will get owned. Why? Because as physical damage classes (BM/Barb/Archer) get their Sage/demon skills their damage will dramatically increase. (Check out the skills at ecatomb.net) For example, not counting the sage or demon specialization plume shot base damage goes from 1379.6 to 3390. The other classes all get gains like this. So while Deadbone has high HP her lack of p def will make her an easy target for sage/demon players.
How Deadbone can fix her build: Well actually her build is perfect, she has high HP which is key! If she puts p def stones into her robe instead of HP stones that little will go a long way in helping her PvP physical classes.
Sorry about the long post. Please correct me if you find any errors but the math does not lie.0 -
Kathar - Lost City wrote: »4. Lack of magical defense: This is a very common misconception. Most of us just look at the numbers we see on our character screen and think that the higher the number the better. While that is true it might surprise you to know that the % damage reduce # is really the important number here. Find that by mousing over your p def/ m def numbers. For example when I went light armor (at lvl 78) I only gained about 2400 p def numberwise but I gained over 30% on my physical damage reduced percentage. I lost over 2000 m def but only 6% damage reduce magically. so remember a little # goes a long way at the bottom end and a big number at the top end does very little. ...
Please correct me if you find any errors but the math does not lie.
I feel you have left out too many details for me to understand you.
For example, if I had 25% physical damage reduction before and 66% magical reduction before, and I got hit by 1000 raw physical damage and 1000 raw magical damage, then, I think I would be hit with:
Before: 750 physical damage, 240 magical damage.
After: 450 physical damage, 400 magical damage.
So my incoming physical damage would have been reduced by 40%, and but I would have received an extra 67% magical damage (when I compare with my "before" numbers). If I had been mostly been getting hit with physical damage, this would be good. But if I mostly got hit by magical damage...
Anyways, I think math lies when we do not include every relevant detail.0 -
Kikuzakura - Sanctuary wrote: »I feel you have left out too many details for me to understand you.
For example, if I had 25% physical damage reduction before and 66% magical reduction...
Anyways, I think math lies when we do not include every relevant detail.
If you are a robe cleric that has 25% phys reduce with buffs but without p def stones pls SS it and post. At my lvl that may be possible but only if you are wearing a HH pdef neck and belt refined to like +6.
One note about Light Armor: You don't always have to wear it! In fact when I PvE most of the time I am in Robes with -ct! So if you are on a magic mob or magic boss you robe it otherwise you use your light set. 90% of mobs in this game will either attack you physically or magically not both so you waer what is best for that quest/situation.0 -
My perspective as a Light Armor Cleric:
1.) Do what makes the game fun for you, first and foremost. ^_^
2.) Con vs. Light Armor seems to be the ultimate debate here, right?--Both are about survivability, so the offensive builds could probably be able to be left out of this. So..... in favor of Light Armor:
LA1.a) You have higher defenses all around (see below).
LA1.b) Like it has been said: Carry both sets of Armor!!! -- You can potentially have MORE Magic Defense than Con builds because you don't have to waste your time with Garnett shards and/or looking for +X Phys Def. Robes. Your Robes can be all about Magic Defense, your Light Armor about Physical Defense.
LA2.) YES! Higher crit rate rules! 'Nuff said. ^_^
LA3.) Some extra weapon versatility for when you get bored.
LA4.) It's all about tremendous, tremendous versatility, though some things are, naturally and necessarily, going to be sacrificed. Complicated = Challenge = Fun! ^_^
LA5.) Some levels, the armors look ugly for a type, some levels they look cool. For your non-battle needs, you can pick the cooler of the two. (I'm talking about coolness versatility). 8)
In favor of Con build (again, this is from a LA Cleric perspective):
Con1.) I'm so jealous of those inventory spots... T_T
Con2.) I'm so jealous of their extra cash... T_T
Con3.) I'm so jealous they don't have to craft TWO types of armors... T_T
Con4.) I'm so jealous of their simplified form of versatility (just having higher HP and slightly raised defense through VIT)... I hate switching armors every 3 seconds in FB's... T_T
Con5.) I'm so jealous that they can just stop putting stats in VIT and start emphasizing MAG to partially or fully change builds, whereas I'm locked in for the life of my Char... T_T
Those are my two pesos on it, though I think I would like my Cleric either way and simply find him effective in different situations. Being Solo-minded, though, it is about survivability for me. Peace. ^_^0 -
I've been having second thoughts of going LA.. But, considering the fact that I will give up my VIT for Pdef, I don't get how I will have higher survivability rate, considering that the addition of Pdef will negate the loss of Vit. O_o
It's all in a matter of gameplay, really. Either give yourself a hard time crafting for two sets of armors just to satisfy your craving for being protected physically, or just tweak your strategies using your support skills in the process.
Whatever floats your boat. b:victory0 -
Kathar - Lost City wrote: »If you are a robe cleric that has 25% phys reduce with buffs but without p def stones pls SS it and post.
I am sorry, I was not trying to imply anyone did! (But I think you can have 25% phys reduction with legendary arcane gear?)
However, if you had 0 physical defense, and your damage reduction increases by 30%, your net change in damage reduction would be 30% instead of 40%.0 -
Kathar - Lost City wrote: »If you are a robe cleric that has 25% phys reduce with buffs but without p def stones pls SS it and post. At my lvl that may be possible but only if you are wearing a HH pdef neck and belt refined to like +6.
I'm lvl 80 wiz, and without stone barrier on I have a dmg reduction of 26%. Average gear. 41% with stone barrier. I don't see how you think a robe cleric can't hit 25%. Since clerics are always selfbuffed that should be an easy number to reach.0 -
Give me pdef gems and refine that item >.> 25% lol more likely 33%+ to 40%+ depending how much you want to spend on your geer.
Ok 40%+ only with buffs, still thats sexy if you ask me.b:dirty0 -
yep agree with you there P def stones make a big difference0
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