TT Share. Fairness?

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Klath - Sanctuary
Klath - Sanctuary Posts: 437 Arc User
edited February 2009 in General Discussion
How do you guys see the "equal share" on TT run as fair? Do you think the split should go by material value on Auction House? Or all the hard bosses mats have same value on the share?
How about clerics and barbarians share? That obviously waste more than damage dealers (venos/wizards/archers/blademasters).

For a cleric, each 1-2/1-3 run can eat 1/3 of his charm if all bosses are killed.
For 2-2, about half his charm if you kill wurlord and feng.
Even so, clerics usually get the smallest part of share, why is that?
I feel ripped off when i get same or less valuable items than others on the split, considering i burned down great part of my charm or wasted lot of potions on some bosses. I also feel bad for barbs that tank bosses for 20 mins straight and in the end get those mats that venos can solo-mode all day and sell for ****.

Discuss.

My regards
Post edited by Klath - Sanctuary on
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  • Hildeborg - Heavens Tear
    Hildeborg - Heavens Tear Posts: 96 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    When playing with unknown players
    1) agree beforehand on the terms ( who get what etc )
    2) at the very first most little sign of not respecting the deal abandon them to their deaths and don't squad again with them
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Mosz - Heavens Tear
    Mosz - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,181 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    always bank and cleric double drop and barb 1.5-double drop too(or just 1 more valuabledrop), if necessary wc/vend apoc pages/gold mat to split
    and usually the crappy mats for subs repayment
  • Klath - Sanctuary
    Klath - Sanctuary Posts: 437 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    How much are apocalypse pages on HT?
    On sanctuary everyone just greedly keeps them, and dont even try to ask them on the share of mats or you will be told they are worth 1-2m each.
    Gold mat drop is usually greedly kept too, without discussion.
  • imnotachick
    imnotachick Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Cleric Barb Veno Then the rest of dd's.(order of importance and drops should be allocated as such imo)
  • Zoe - Heavens Tear
    Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    When I lead TT runs I bank the items until the end and pass them out based on who actually needs what. Monetary value has NO bearing on anything. I did not take you with me so you can make money I took you with me so you can get mats you need for your equipment. Since I don't actually need to take anyone at all....
    Main characters
    Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
    Sage Barbarian Malego - 91
  • Shaye - Lost City
    Shaye - Lost City Posts: 353 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Protip: Go with friends if you can, there's less drama and they're more likely to give you the share you deserve. <3 If you're lucky, you'll get a "permanent HH group" of sorts that you can go with almost every day. Those are the best since you know what you're doing, you work well with one another, and fights over mats are pretty rare.

    Question, though. Are these runs you're doing profit runs, or runs to actually get mats you need?
  • Klath - Sanctuary
    Klath - Sanctuary Posts: 437 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    I actually have a permanent group, we pool the mats and im the material bank, while another person is the "profit bank" (sells materials we dont need and buy substances with coins).
    But im sometimes called to runs with random people, and on those are that i feel really **** without lube on the shares.
  • Zoe - Heavens Tear
    Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    I went with a random group once, I was fully expecting for them to hog all the drops since they were all in the same guild and I wasn't. Not only did they share the mats evenly, they sold the ones that were extra becuase there were not enough to give to everyone, and gave the money equally to everyone later on in the mail, including me.

    I've never had a problem even with random players.
    Main characters
    Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
    Sage Barbarian Malego - 91
  • Gasoline - Lost City
    Gasoline - Lost City Posts: 304 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Anyone that actually played cleric in TT will agree that its not fair with equal share. Clerics can burn an entire gold mp charm in 2 runs + alot of hp charm, since theyre kinda squishy. Its easily about 500k ingame gold for 2 runs in 2-3.

    While BM, Archers or Venos more or less earn money just from the DQ drops in TT. Well venos might have to spend a little in pet food if the pet dies while luring. Archers might loose a little mp and extra arrows if they zhen. Barbs also have to spend alot of HP-charm and repairs. BUT NOT CLOSELY AS MUCH AS CLERICS SPEND IN MP. Might add that Wiz also spend alot of MP-charms in TT, but they don't get invited in the first place since this game hates wiz (so if they actually get invited they're so damn greatfull they don't complain about charms).

    I think best is that party all donate for the barb/clerics charms cost. Than u can decide who gets what. Problem is, most runs only have 2-3 mats thats actually worth something. Rest is junk that sells for 20-50k max.
    If clerics/barbs get to pick the decent drops first no one else would wanna go.
  • XAsch - Sanctuary
    XAsch - Sanctuary Posts: 855 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    I normally only go TT with guild members, since I know there'll be no uneccessary drama between party members.

    Drop distribution.. well tanking all the TT's I do, I burn about 200-300k HP charm and 50k MP charm per run on any TT. I always make sure to have 2 clerics incase one dies, (It's just a precaution), and due to that, the clerics don't spam as much of their MP Charms, as they can take turns Bubbling, or using red ball. Then, I bring anyone else along that wants to / needs MATs.

    if there's a measely 6 drops (excluding what Chin drops); then I'll hand out 1 MAT and 100-200k each, plus divide the cele's among the clerics, depending on how many coins I have, and how many cele's dropped.
    11/12+, then it's fair to say everyone gets 2+ and I don't need to pass out coins to anyone, and I'll sell the cele's to buy more subs.

    I try giving the most expensive drops to the other members, as I really only go there to get everyone TT MATs, and I don't really have use for them anyway. (600k~ish/hr on NS).

    Iunno if it's fair or not, but so far, everyone seems pretty happy with it.
  • Klath - Sanctuary
    Klath - Sanctuary Posts: 437 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Iunno if it's fair or not, but so far, everyone seems pretty happy with it.
    I never complained about the loot i get either, but its because if i didnt go, i wouldnt have anything afterall, so eitherway its a gain.
    But deep inside i feel like a waste when i think the amount of pots/charm used up when comparing to the value of the items i got.
    I think best is that party all donate for the barb/clerics charms cost. Than u can decide who gets what. Problem is, most runs only have 2-3 mats thats actually worth something. Rest is junk that sells for 20-50k max.
    If clerics/barbs get to pick the decent drops first no one else would wanna go.
    True, but if the cleric/barbs dont go, there is no TT squad, unless its a team of venos with herc, but then they cant kill all bosses, just those without AoE or with damage low enough so their herc can tank.
    On my runs, we usually do 2-3 runs, so there are enough mats to everybody and sometimes a few extra.
  • XAsch - Sanctuary
    XAsch - Sanctuary Posts: 855 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    I never complained about the loot i get either, but its because if i didnt go, i wouldnt have anything afterall, so eitherway its a gain.
    But deep inside i feel like a waste when i think the amount of pots/charm used up when comparing to the value of the items i got.

    I am, however, open to complaints about how I distribute things. Not just with guild members and friends, but with whomever I go with. If they're not happy with the items, I'd prefer to discuss it with them. Even through PM, if they feel embarrassed about it.
  • The ferenczy - Sanctuary
    The ferenczy - Sanctuary Posts: 275 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    i only run tt 60 atm me and my cleric friend run them together with a veno *we are all to low to be drum atm* but we split the loot 3 ways and by need.

    if i do any thing with random squads i tell them up front "this is what i do normally. this is the average cost of doing this". then i tell them this is what i want from the run. in fb's i normally say right up front "unless this is your tab i want the heavy armor no matter how many stars. also i tell them "if my equipt breaks during this fb and a replace ment item drops i want it reguardless of stars." then i tell them that the same applies to them. i give archers light armor mages arcane and i am flexible on the heavy armor with the bm's." if any one tries to punk me i use the ultimate power that tanks and clerics have.

    namely i wait untill we are in the middle of fighting a boss and then i drop agro.
    clerics just stop healing. if you are a random help then i am acting as a mercinary for you and as your employ i demand payment.

    but if it is a friend i am nice and cuddly and warm and happy. i take alot of abuse for firends.
    one day the world will shout to me save us....
    and i will whisper no.
  • The ferenczy - Sanctuary
    The ferenczy - Sanctuary Posts: 275 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    i should also clarify that all fb runs i do are unwined unless some one else brings the wine.

    and i tank 19 - 59 lvl fb's

    i figgure if you want a real tank to tank for you throw him a bone. if you want a real cleric to heal you throw them a bone. the only time i can see that you should have the high ground to tell some on "you got what you got be happy that we let you work with us it A pk barb tank B wiz healer C blademaster tank. the reason you could count them out is they stand a high chance of makeing this endevor alot more expencive than it should be since they wanna stand out.
    one day the world will shout to me save us....
    and i will whisper no.
  • Ninnuam - Sanctuary
    Ninnuam - Sanctuary Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    if i do any thing with random squads i tell them up front "this is what i do normally. this is the average cost of doing this". then i tell them this is what i want from the run. in fb's i normally say right up front "unless this is your tab i want the heavy armor no matter how many stars. also i tell them "if my equipt breaks during this fb and a replace ment item drops i want it reguardless of stars." then i tell them that the same applies to them. i give archers light armor mages arcane and i am flexible on the heavy armor with the bm's." if any one tries to punk me i use the ultimate power that tanks and clerics have.

    And that makes sense how exactly? I mean if you're gonna bicker over a drop worth 3k at the npc I'd be an **** just out of spite. Personally I find it that the random loot setting works just fine. Finders keepers eh? It's another thing if I know you (or I just met you and you seem nice enough) and I get an item you can actually use. But if you have good gear already and want a 3k drop just to be an **** then trust me I'd be an even bigger one. Going by your logic though, if you got a wheel of fate mold in fb39 (worth just under 2mil) you'd let a random cleric/wiz/veno have it. Yeah I can see that happening. Not.

    Oh and, you may want to repair your equipment before going to a fb run. If your equip broke during a run I'm on, I'd be asking YOU to pay ME for being an idiot and wasting my time.
    namely i wait untill we are in the middle of fighting a boss and then i drop agro.
    clerics just stop healing. if you are a random help then i am acting as a mercinary for you and as your employ i demand payment.

    but if it is a friend i am nice and cuddly and warm and happy. i take alot of abuse for firends.

    GG getting yourself and everyone else who made a move during that fight killed, as the boss would pick you off one by one. I'm sure you're mr. popular with a lot of people if you actually ever pulled a stunt like that.
    As for your 'payment', the xp and rep you get from the tab IS your payment. Unless you're an **** and ask for cash upfront, there are people that would pay you out there yes. Personally I'd drop dead before doing so, or asking to be payed for that matter.
    b:dirty
  • The ferenczy - Sanctuary
    The ferenczy - Sanctuary Posts: 275 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    you misunderstand.

    i don't bicker over 3k drops. i run on random. and i only pull stunts when i am completely discusted with the party. by then they have turned me into my @hole. i am not saying that i need every peice of heavy armor to sell cuz i am a tank. i ask if i can use it and it is my armor that i pls be allowed to have it or trade for it. same with them others. i never run on free cuz it is not fair to the others for me to do that. as i am the tank i will be where the drops are all the time so no one would get any thing.
    one day the world will shout to me save us....
    and i will whisper no.
  • The ferenczy - Sanctuary
    The ferenczy - Sanctuary Posts: 275 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    about killing my party generally it goes like this.
    - guys you are kinda f-ing me here.
    - shhh.... don't complain
    - guys you should be having the veno pull these mobs
    - shhh .... we are healing you and the veno doesn't wanna bring out her pet cuz of not having water
    - ok now boss #1 is dead and cleric just got a 3* protection belt. "hey cleric could you toss me that necklace i will trade you for it.
    - no i am gonna sell it.
    grr.....
    - i am pulling for you not getting anything from drops guys could you toss me a bone.?
    - just do your job
    - boss # 3 i attack with flesh ream to get agro then regular attacks keeping the heals untill agro is about to drop then when it does i leave squad and skidaddle twards exit and leave party when i run it is 7.5 m/s so i out run boss's attack range* they have agro healer first and they die. i never work with them again.
    one day the world will shout to me save us....
    and i will whisper no.
  • The ferenczy - Sanctuary
    The ferenczy - Sanctuary Posts: 275 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    on the flip side and this happens to
    i will have and do hold agro on bosses till the end so that the cleric and every one else stays alive. it is my job and i do it dying is of little concequence to me. i am the first to fight the first to see a party crumbleing and the first to tell every one to run while i hold boss off.

    this happens alot on bosses like kong jewel the aoe ones in the fb's

    and yeah if some one needs a drop i will give it to them with out regards to the price. the only time price comes in to it is if they want it to sell it.

    on a tt run i walked away with 1 skeleton bone after the whole thing was done.

    durrning the tt run i got 3 edges from chinten i gave them the the cleric who needed them to finance his blacksmithe skill.
    one day the world will shout to me save us....
    and i will whisper no.
  • The ferenczy - Sanctuary
    The ferenczy - Sanctuary Posts: 275 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    and thirdly the exp / sp/ and fun i get from doing the run are payment enough for doing it i never charge per run.

    but don't expect that the exp / sp make up for a run that was all death no drops and watching the items that you needed be hoarded to line some one pocket. and no 11k exp is not pay ment enough to cover the extra equiptment repair from dying and exp loss.

    personally i am a decent guy and a good tank i have shown that to many ppl but when my dander gets up i am still a good tank but no longer a good guy. sorry about that but if you kick a dog and get an extra hole it is your fault not the dogs.
    one day the world will shout to me save us....
    and i will whisper no.
  • Fallenangelx - Heavens Tear
    Fallenangelx - Heavens Tear Posts: 182 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    dunno y u say clerics spend so much on mp, my cleric only uses pots and apo stuff in TT and no charm at all. the whole group survives fairly well with barely any ticks from anyone. as for the barb, they get the most repair fees but if the cleric is good, then rarely any hp charm is used. i did tt runs up to 1-1 up to 2-2, no mp charm was really needed.
    as for the dds that you think are unnecessary, my archer usually saves the clerics that are healing and gets the hp charm ticked alot more than expected so DDs are not as useless as you people think, they also make ur runs go alot faster.
    if you get a high level veno on ur tt runs, u dunt need a barb or a cleric. (<3 snowie). A veno tanked up to 2-2 in squad mode with no barb (of course we skipped dust of stars drop with no cleric and skipped mirror boss in 1-3). so if u have good relations, u can go without a barb and cleric on lots of runs. just have to be careful about stealin agro on the bosses.
  • Ninnuam - Sanctuary
    Ninnuam - Sanctuary Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Gold charms are cheaper than pots in the long run as per the amount of mp recovered. If you're still using pots at 84 then you've been missing out. And while I agree that a charm isn't needed for the most part, some bosses are just impossible without it. Say Lord of Percussion. There's no way you can do that boss (in squad mode of course) without bubbling, and there's no way to keep a bubble up long enough using only pots and apo. Okay sure if your squad is 80+ maybe they can manage themselves for a few seconds without bubble while you pop some new powders and start bubbling again, but if you have a bunch of lvl60s with you, the moment the bubble drops is the moment everyone's laying dead.

    Now if you're only doing non aoe bosses then yea you don't need a charm. If you have a veno tanking you don't need a charm. Hell you don't need anyone or anything else :p But going from personal experience I really can't see how what you say is doable. I mean my mana virtually dissapears just by having ironheart pressed down for 10 minutes. Let alone for having to bubble during an aoe boss. Now I'm a bit lowish so I can't speak for 2-x runs, but I'd recon it only gets progressively harder.
    b:dirty
  • The ferenczy - Sanctuary
    The ferenczy - Sanctuary Posts: 275 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    bs when bubble drops drum kills evey one in one hit.

    it takes drum 5 hits to kill me when the bubble goes down even more if i had access to my post fb 59 skills. thus two clerics could keep me alive for the fight using iron heart.

    bs you NEED charms.

    all games were ment to be played with out all the cash shop items. and all bosses and challenges are level appropriate. if the quest is given at lvl 55 so to speak then the quest is do able with a party that is nearl lvl 55. YOU just need to play your char right and build right.
    one day the world will shout to me save us....
    and i will whisper no.
  • Cosmos - Heavens Tear
    Cosmos - Heavens Tear Posts: 101 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    I completed TT1-2 the other night with a pug Barb who didn't have any charms equipped. He didn't die once.

    I also only had my charm tick about 10 times max - there's a reason for Focus Powders and spacing out your heals to the bare minimum. Aslong as you do not enter combat mode you can reap the full benefit of those celepills. (Impossible in areas such as Drum or Snake-come-50%, you're forced to enter combat mode then.)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Ninnuam - Sanctuary
    Ninnuam - Sanctuary Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    bs when bubble drops drum kills evey one in one hit.

    it takes drum 5 hits to kill me when the bubble goes down even more if i had access to my post fb 59 skills. thus two clerics could keep me alive for the fight using iron heart.

    bs you NEED charms.

    all games were ment to be played with out all the cash shop items. and all bosses and challenges are level appropriate. if the quest is given at lvl 55 so to speak then the quest is do able with a party that is nearl lvl 55. YOU just need to play your char right and build right.

    Love I'm talking about squad mode here, not solo mode. On squad mode, once his hp gets under 50% he does an unavoidable physical aoe every 10 seconds, and to top it off its intensity goes up as its hp goes down. In other words, without bubble your two clerics (and just about everyone else not in heavy armor) would be dead in 2-3 hits as soon as he got to 50% hp. (when he's near death he gets me down to like 20% hp each hit, and that's with a bubble going). Oh and if you need 2 clerics to keep you alive for percussion on solo mode, I'd take a nice long hard look at your own advice. Better yet, delete char. Epic fail.
    As for me, I did my first tt run at 59 as a pug cleric. Noone died except a robe veno who ran out of bubble during the percussion fight and tried climbing the platform thinking she'd be safe there (wanting to conserve her hp charm i guess idk). Didnt go too well for her. So I'd say I must be doing something right.

    And are we playing the same game here when it comes to bosses? Because I'd just LOVE to see you tank chin at lvl30 or say jewel and krimson at lvl50. I love a good laugh.

    TLDR: BS you can live 5 hits from percussion on squad mode without heals. BS you don't need a charm to keep bubble going. BS that the bosses are suitable to killed at the level you get them at.
    b:dirty
  • Cosmos - Heavens Tear
    Cosmos - Heavens Tear Posts: 101 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    TLDR: BS you can live 5 hits from percussion on squad mode without heals. BS you don't need a charm to keep bubble going. BS that the bosses are suitable to killed at the level you get them at.

    Any questions?

    Yes, have you actually tried bubbling without a charm?

    Quite simple, really.

    I've solo healed TT1-2 many, many times ever since I was around lv67. I always bubble at Drum. My charm never ticks.

    How?

    MP pot every 10 seconds. It's more than enough to keep your mana full whilst bubbling. Plus, as it's the only time I ever actually use pots, I always have plenty. b:victory

    Oh, also, your comment on bosses not being suitable for the level you get them at..

    TT1-2 is designed for lv68+, that's the level the party leader needs to be to enter. Myself and 3 friends have been doing these runs since I was lv66/67 and they were always only one level higher. Obviously the bosses are perfectly suitable for the level you get them at.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Ninnuam - Sanctuary
    Ninnuam - Sanctuary Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Yeah I did. Popped a focus powder, a jade powder, and potted constantly using lvl60 pots (whilst red bubbling). Mana drain from the bubble is still too big and you can't keep on bubbling indefinitely. Why you think zhenning for instance requires a cleric to have an mp charm? Now it would be possible to keep on going forever using jade powders, but that would require you to stop bubbling every 30 seconds while you pop a pill. You can keep going without one for a few minutes yes, but I'd rather be safe then sorry and run out of mana in a critical moment. And again, charms are actually cheaper than pots. So its a rather moot point really.

    And yeah I did a few 1-2 runs myself, want a cookie? My previous point still stands though. Find me a lvl30 party to kill chin and a lvl50 party to kill krimson. Or a lvl40 party to finish fb39 or a lvl50 party to finish fb51. I'll bend over for you if you do.
    b:dirty
  • Maiya - Lost City
    Maiya - Lost City Posts: 2,686 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    There is a thing called an edit button, to the person who posted like 3-4 back to back posts on page 2.

    As for TT shares. The mats always go towards the person that needs the weapon, and whatever rest isn't needed, goes to guild bank (I rarely run TT outside the guild). And anything else that drops from the boss is fair game. But if someone needs an item, my guild normally gives it up depending on how much everyone got from the boss.

    If I do run it with random people, we try to give at least 1 or 2 mats to each person, and a majority to the person who we're running it for.

    As for the whole drum thing. I don't recall which armor I was wearing at the time, but I'm a light armor build. TT1-2 Drum in my high 70s did like 2500-2700 damage to me. With bubble, near it's death. Did 500-1000s along the way.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Cosmos - Heavens Tear
    Cosmos - Heavens Tear Posts: 101 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Yeah I did. Popped a focus powder, a jade powder, and potted constantly using lvl60 pots (whilst red bubbling). Mana drain from the bubble is still too big and you can't keep on bubbling indefinitely. Why you think zhenning for instance requires a cleric to have an mp charm? Now it would be possible to keep on going forever using jade powders, but that would require you to stop bubbling every 30 seconds while you pop a pill. You can keep going without one for a few minutes yes, but I'd rather be safe then sorry and run out of mana in a critical moment. And again, charms are actually cheaper than pots. So its a rather moot point really.

    And yeah I did a few 1-2 runs myself, want a cookie? My previous point still stands though. Find me a lvl30 party to kill chin and a lvl50 party to kill krimson. Or a lvl40 party to finish fb39 or a lvl50 party to finish fb51. I'll bend over for you if you do.

    Why are you being so hostile? We're not discussing zhenning, or bosses outside TT, we're discussing TT itself. Everything I said was directed at that. It is a TT thread, after all.
    want a cookie?

    Was there any need at all for that? I'm just presenting an argument to what you said, it's not like I insulted you or mocked you at all in any way.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Fallenangelx - Heavens Tear
    Fallenangelx - Heavens Tear Posts: 182 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    i was talkin about squad mode for drum boss, we went in with no cleric and had veno tank. everyone was fine even with the aoe, didn't even have to pot that much but then again our squad was pretty high level. bb isn't really needed for the drum boss though, just spam heal ur barb and squad heal when ur in the level 60s, should be fine. BB just makes it easier and safer but not necessary.

    as the for split, we usually decide who gets what before we go in, if people need the same thing then split the drops evenly and whoever doesnt get wat they want can get the other drops to sell or trade. but since tt runs are usually done with people you are familiar with, there really isn't all that much arguments with who gets what, whoever needs it for weapon first are prioritize mostly. for those in the runs that don't need anything, usually the barbs and clerics, they get the extra drops for repair fees and the time they spent on the tt runs, and our eternal gratitude, lol.b:chuckle
  • The ferenczy - Sanctuary
    The ferenczy - Sanctuary Posts: 275 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    a list of accomplistments

    tanked jewel at lvl 57, chin when i got the quest don't remember lvl, gargantackong king lvl 57, virdis when i got him and i have been tanking the first boss in tt SQUAD mode since lvl 55.

    not only does it take precussion 5 hits to down me sans cleric when he is under 50% my cleric *who was using a charm* tanked drum long enough to res me when i died and tossed me a heal. we all died that time. when precussion get to be at ruffly 20-30% his aoe kill my cleric. we can't do it.

    my barb has 160 str 110 vit and 3X dex 10 mag. the vit comes from equipts.

    but i guess you know all and me and my build are wrong :)
    one day the world will shout to me save us....
    and i will whisper no.