Sage/Demon or Heaven/Hell

gatts87 · January 2009

Not sure which of these is used whether it be Sage/Demon or Heaven/Hell, but anyways. I was wondering when do we get the ability to pick between these two options or is it something we cant pick that is just assigned to us, etc? Also is the choice for each individual skill or for all of them overall?

Amiris - Sanctuary · January 2009

At lvl 89, you have to pick, it's the spiritual cultivation for that level. You have to pick ONE, and that affects all your skills.

gatts87 · January 2009

Ok and for demon versions of the element masterys they all have 1% added crit rate. Does this mean that if you go demon, each mastery will add 1% crit rate to total 3% added crit or will it only add 1% crit all together? Also, here's another question, which is more important to us as wizards : Accuracy/crit/dodge/pdef or HP/elemental resists(all elements)? Here are my two examples. I'd like to pick magic armor(looks amazing), but not sure which stats are more useful to wizards. I don't want to start a debate about light vs magic, just want to know which stats would overall be more useful for me from what's shown below.

Magic Armor:
Critical Rate 1%
Accuracy Rate 25
Dodge Rate 684
Physical Def 861
Metal Res 9365
Wood Res 9365
Water Res 9365
Fire Res 9365
Earth Res 9365
HP 4900

Light Armor:
Critical Rate 8%
Accuracy Rate 700
Dodge Rate 954
Physical Def 2713
Metal Res 5415
Wood Res 5415
Water Res 5415
Fire Res 5415
Earth Res 5415
HP 2890

Amiris - Sanctuary · January 2009

It means that you'll get 1% extra crit for that element. So 1% per element.
As for stats, if you're going to PvE mostly, pick Arcane. If you're going for PvP, pick Light. The only stats beneficial to mages (from the ones you mentioned) are HP and Pdef. However, going Light Armor will gimp your damage a bit, so it's mostly for PvP, where you'll want to survive longer.

gatts87 · January 2009

I'm trying to make a solo PVE based build, I don't like to be in partys etc. Would the benefits from light armor(def wise) be better for me to solo or should I go magic armor?

Amiris - Sanctuary · January 2009

All classes will squad at higher levels. No exceptions. You're a wizard and will likely be joining Zhen squads, or Butterfly squads.
But Solo/Squad doesn't matter whatsoever when picking armor. If you're going to PvE, go Arcane.

$ian - Lost City · January 2009

Amiris - Sanctuary wrote: »

It means that you'll get 1% extra crit for that element. So 1% per element.
As for stats, if you're going to PvE mostly, pick Arcane. If you're going for PvP, pick Light. The only stats beneficial to mages (from the ones you mentioned) are HP and Pdef. However, going Light Armor will gimp your damage a bit, so it's mostly for PvP, where you'll want to survive longer.

I'm not sure, but I've read that they stack. So if you have all the 3 masteries, you get +3% Crit. Not just for the element it affects.

Also, in the higher levels you will need to squad in order to level faster. But if you want to solo AoE training, go Axe blademaster. :P

gatts87 · January 2009

Fire Mastery Level 10

Passive Skill

Requisite Cultivation: Aware of Harmony

Increases Fire magic damage by 20%.

Sage version always increases Fire damage by 25%.
Demon version increases critical hit rate by 1%.
_____________________________________________

Does this mean that if I chose Sage that my fire mastery would be 25% or 45% when the skill is maxed?

Amiris - Sanctuary · January 2009

25%. It's a bit badly written.

Seifa - Lost City · January 2009

2 words, hell owns. ^_^

Xerela - Heavens Tear · January 2009

provided you can get the other books to drop. It seems only the 3 base skills and eruption can be had without great luck. As such we are all making these statements based on ecatomb descriptions as opposed to based on actual experience.

gatts87 · January 2009

Well I'm still debating which I'd want to choose, but I can't decide for a few reasons. The barrier/mastery skills are the biggest reasons why I can't decide... Just as a side question, on the skills it says Sage/Demon version always does blah blah blah, does that mean you don't have to level up the skill to get the effect once you become Sage or Demon since it will always have the blah blah blah effect on it? Also on Wellspring Quaff it says "Sage version gives a 100% bonus to magic attack", is that for the entire length of the skill or for a limited time similar to the Demon version where it has 20% less channeling for 15 seconds? Other than the barriers/masterys/wellspring quaff keeping me undecided, I'd pick Demon on the majority of the attack skills. Any help on this would be appreciated :P.

Xerela - Heavens Tear · January 2009

I like the Demon version.

Tryangle - Lost City · January 2009

I heard it is just another poorly written skill and the heaven version of Wellspring Quaff is also only in effect for the first 15 seconds.

Why would you be torn between heaven/hell based on the barriers/masteries? More hp regen/mp regen/defense is WAY better than increased one resistance. And 3% crit is much better than 5% more damage.

gatts87 · January 2009

Well because of how I play and who I play with, but anyways. Does anyone know the answer for the "on the skills it says Sage/Demon version always does blah blah blah, does that mean you don't have to level up the skill to get the effect once you become Sage or Demon since it will always have the blah blah blah effect on it?" question?

Kristoph - Lost City · January 2009

You have to upgrade the skills. Lv10 =/= Sage/Demon version.

Hidden - Lost City · January 2009

gatts87 wrote: »

Well because of how I play and who I play with, but anyways. Does anyone know the answer for the "on the skills it says Sage/Demon version always does blah blah blah, does that mean you don't have to level up the skill to get the effect once you become Sage or Demon since it will always have the blah blah blah effect on it?" question?

lvl 10 spell + demon/sage book of the spell type + 1mil = demon/sage spell.

ark · January 2009

Heaven is better.

Why?

... Well, let's see. You know all three 59 spells? And the +50chi spell at 89? And the Pyrogram spell? And rock fall? And the spark eruption? And the mastery? And Divine pyro?

Look at them.

Anyhow, you could say that a Wizard's power is based on how much chi he has. This may seem like BS, but in my experience so far.... it's pretty true. A Sage Wizard will receive a lot more chi than a Demon Wizard. Plus, there's a 50% chance that the 59 spells only cost one spark. Seriously, how badass is that? And the water dragon has a 50% chance to give you +30 crit...

Think application, as opposed to raw effect.

Xenesis - Lost City · January 2009

Sage mage in my opinion is the best way to go.

Sage pyrogram is awesome, stone rain also , aoe silence skill etc..
Btw sage always have more chi its worth losing 30% p.def . At tw chi>p.def i prefer to aoe a lot more than can get 1 more hit ..

dekciw · January 2009

ark wrote: »

you could say that a Wizard's power is based on how much chi he has

Quoted for absolute truth.

Klath - Sanctuary · January 2009

1) The masteries DO NOT add +3 crit, they add 1% crit for spells of that element. If the skill works any different than that, its a bug that needs to get fixed, so dont get your hopes up.
2) Wellspring staff lasts only 15 seconds, not 30 minutes.
3) More chi = more spark = more sutras/spark eruptions
And that by FAR outweights the small critical bonuses you get.

Mosabi - Heavens Tear · January 2009

again same with light or arcane its all about what are you aiming..

if your aiming for PK and duels go hell/demon(my plan).
if your aiming for pve and TW go heaven/sage.

Volraith - Heavens Tear · January 2009

it doesn't matter that wellspring quaff's demon/sage effect only last 15sec. with no channeling/casting time n only 3sec cooldown, that skill can be easily used n is a good starting spell of combos. and personally, i rather take demon version of that skill: 20% from skill + 21% from equipt (atm) = 41% of channeling goodness. and since i (in future sense) can fire off more spells than sage in same time period, it also means there probably won't be much difference in the total chi gained in the same time period

btw, u need to be lvl 99 to get demon/sage version of the 3 aoe while it's only lvl 92 for the masteries n wellspring quaff (n few other spells); not to mention it's a lot more expensive to lvl the aoe

Xnonameherex - Heavens Tear · February 2009

Mosabi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

again same with light or arcane its all about what are you aiming..

if your aiming for PK and duels go hell/demon(my plan).
if your aiming for pve and TW go heaven/sage.

well the way that i saw it and a couple discussions i read the heaven path is more towards defense and buffs while the hell path is more offensive .

i wanna stay pve cuz i think as a pure int mage i would blow at pvp lmao

but i was thinking of going demon for the offensive advantages since mages are u kno glass cannons .

Llama - Lost City · February 2009

Xnonameherex - Heavens Tear wrote: »

well the way that i saw it and a couple discussions i read the heaven path is more towards defense and buffs while the hell path is more offensive .

i wanna stay pve cuz i think as a pure int mage i would blow at pvp lmao

but i was thinking of going demon for the offensive advantages since mages are u kno glass cannons .

Again that completely depends on how you play it. Heaven will always have chi. Skills add chi or cost less chi and you have a skill that is +50 chi instantly. There are good aspects to both. Heaven ice dragon for instance adds a chance to get +30% crit for a short time after.

Lets talk about the 89 books, easiest to get and most practical to compare at this point in the game. Heaven gush is .. meh adds to slowdown. Hell gush adds damage. Heaven pyrogram has chance to +45 your chi (I like this alot). Hell pyro is faster cast rate (decent). Heaven Stone Rain makes the cast faster (like this aspect as well). Hell Stone Rain gives chance to stun, depends how you look at it.

Chaosteve - Heavens Tear · February 2009

DEMON -

Pyrogram = Demon version reduces channeling time by 1.2 seconds.
Gush = Demon version gives an extra 600 damage.
Stone Rain = Demon version gives a 20% chance to stun the enemy for 5 seconds.
Pyro shield = Demon version always increases HP reneration to 15 points per second.
Glacial Embrace = Demon version always increases mana regeneration to 15 points per second.
Stone Barrier = Demon version alway increses physical defence to 150%.
Crown of flame = Demon version decreases the duration of the burn.
Hailstorm = Demon version increases chance to freeze to 50%.
Devine pyrogram = Demon version reduces channeling time.
Morning Dew = Demon version also heals the target over time, recovering 200 HP three times at three second intervals.
Pitfalls = Demon version increases freeze chance to 33%.
The Dragons Breath = Demon version has a 25% chance to gain 500 life.
Wellspring Quaff = Demon version gives a 20% channeling speed increase for 15 seconds.
Distance Shrink = Demon version increases teleport distance to 30 meters.
Will of the phoenix = Demon version has area of effect increased by 50%.
Frostblade = Demon version always increases bonus damage to 50%.
Sandstorm = Demon version grants an additional 1200 damage.
Emberstorm = Demon version has a 50% chance to stun enemies for 3 seconds.
Glacial Snare = Demon version has reduces channeling time by 2.1 seconds.
Force of Will = Demon version reduces cooldown by two seconds.
Blade Tempest = Demon version has a 50% chance to interrupt enemy channelling.
Black Ice Dragon Strike = Demon version gives a a 20% chance to cast without using Spark.
Mountain Seize = Demon version extends range by 5 meters.
Fire Mastery = Demon version increases critical hit rate by 1%.
Water Mastery = Demon version increases critical hit rate by 1%.
Earth Mastery = Demon version increases critical hit rate by 1%.

Sage -
Pyrogram = Sage version grants a 20% chance to gain 30 Chi on a successful hit.
Gush = Sage version increases chance to slow to 45% and increases duration of slow by one second.
Stone Rain = Sage version reduces channeling time by 1.6 seconds.
Pyroshield = Sage version always gives 150% Fire resistance increase.
Glacial Embrace = Sage version always increases Water resistance to 150%.
Stone Barrier = Sage version always increases Earth resistance to 150%.
Crown of flame = Sage version gives 15% bonus Fire damage.
Hailstorm = Sage version grants an extra 3160 Water damage to frozen enemies.
Devine Pyrogram = Sage version reduces enemy Fire resistance by 20% for 15 seconds.
Morning Dew = Sage version gives a 10% chance to fully heal the target.
Pifalls = Sage version increases the slow effect to 20%.
The Dragons Breath = Sage version gives a 20% chance to stun.
Wellspring Quaff = Sage version gives a 100% bonus to magic attack.
Distance Shrink = Sage version reduces the Chi cost by 10.
Will of the phoenix = Sage version has 1 second reduced cooldown.
Frostblade = Sage version increases effect duration to 30 minutes.
Sandstorm = Sage version reduced enemy accuracy by 50%.
Emberstorm = Sage version reduces damage taken by 25%.
Glacial Snare = Sage version reduces enemy Water resistance by 20% for 15 seconds.
Force of the will = Sage version adds the 3 meter area of effect.
Blade tempest = Sage version has a 50% chance cast at the cost of only one Spark.
Black ice dragon strike = Sage version gives a 50% chance to increase magic critical hit rate by 30% for 10 seconds.
Mountain seize = Sage version has a 50% chance to cast at a cost of only one Spark.
Fire mastery = Sage version always increases Fire damage by 25%.
Water mastery = Sage version always increases Water damage by 25%.
Earth mastery = Sage version always increases Earth damage by 25%.

Demon = pvp
Sage = pve

Haiz - Lost City · February 2009

Chaosteve - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Sage -
*Pyrogram = Sage version grants a 20% chance to gain 30 Chi on a successful hit.
*Gush = Sage version increases chance to slow to 45% and increases duration of slow by one second.
*Stone Rain = Sage version reduces channeling time by 1.6 seconds.
*Pyroshield = Sage version always gives 150% Fire resistance increase.
*Glacial Embrace = Sage version always increases Water resistance to 150%.
Stone Barrier = Sage version always increases Earth resistance to 150%.
Crown of flame = Sage version gives 15% bonus Fire damage.
Hailstorm = Sage version grants an extra 3160 Water damage to frozen enemies.
*Devine Pyrogram = Sage version reduces enemy Fire resistance by 20% for 15 seconds.
Morning Dew = Sage version gives a 10% chance to fully heal the target.
Pifalls = Sage version increases the slow effect to 20%.
*The Dragons Breath = Sage version gives a 20% chance to stun.
*Wellspring Quaff = Sage version gives a 100% bonus to magic attack.
*Distance Shrink = Sage version reduces the Chi cost by 10.
Will of the phoenix = Sage version has 1 second reduced cooldown.
Frostblade = Sage version increases effect duration to 30 minutes.
*Sandstorm = Sage version reduced enemy accuracy by 50%.
*Emberstorm = Sage version reduces damage taken by 25%.
Glacial Snare = Sage version reduces enemy Water resistance by 20% for 15 seconds.
*Force of the will = Sage version adds the 3 meter area of effect.
*Blade tempest = Sage version has a 50% chance cast at the cost of only one Spark.
*Black ice dragon strike = Sage version gives a 50% chance to increase magic critical hit rate by 30% for 10 seconds.
*Mountain seize = Sage version has a 50% chance to cast at a cost of only one Spark.
Fire mastery = Sage version always increases Fire damage by 25%.
Water mastery = Sage version always increases Water damage by 25%.
Earth mastery = Sage version always increases Earth damage by 25%.

Demon = pvp
Sage = pve

I put a star by the ones I'd rather have in PvP, if there is no star then that means the other one would be better. You guys are nubs if you think "OMG GUSH GIVES 600 DAMAGE ITS SO GOOD". You're probably like level 30 with low damage. In PvP the 600 from gush or 1200 from sandstorm is like, nothing.

If you question anything I put a star by, go ahead and ask me and you shall receive. I actually think heaven can be better for PvE and PvP.

Kikuzakura - Sanctuary · February 2009

Chaosteve - Heavens Tear wrote: »

DEMON -

Pyrogram = Demon version reduces channeling time by 1.2 seconds.

I am pretty sure you have copied someone else's mistake, and have not tried this for yourself. Or maybe Pandora was wrong?

Pandora - Lost City · February 2009

Kikuzakura - Sanctuary wrote: »

I am pretty sure you have copied someone else's mistake, and have not tried this for yourself. Or maybe Pandora was wrong?

He copied those off ecatomb and as I said, they're wrong. It doesn't reduce BY 1.6 seconds, it reduces TO 1.6 seconds. The main advantage hell has over holy is 30% more pdef bonus on earth barrier. Oh, and glacial snare hell is better because the debuffs don't stack with Undine Strike. Lastly, hailstorm hell is better for increased paralyze chance - which is the only reason to EVER use that skill.

I reccomend all of you read the Sage VS Demon section of my guide. I do not straight up say one is better than the other, but I clear up a lot of misconceptions (like the casting time ones) and bring some other important notes to light.

Tryangle - Lost City · February 2009

I've seen all the sage/demon mods to the spells a billion times, but I've never seen these new spells you get for each.

Someone mentioned a free 50 Chi for sage? What is this? What's the demon version of this?

What is the triple spark eruption for both?

Are there other spells you get as Sage or Demon?

Also, for the FoW aoe thing...is anyone ever within 3 meters of another person? That seems REALLY close unless you're like pk'ing a Zhen party it doesn't seem useful.

edit: I found most of this on Pandora's updated guide. Are there any other skills that aren't mentioned there?

Skyannie - Lost City · February 2009

Tryangle - Lost City wrote: »

I've seen all the sage/demon mods to the spells a billion times, but I've never seen these new spells you get for each.

Someone mentioned a free 50 Chi for sage? What is this? What's the demon version of this?

What is the triple spark eruption for both?

Are there other spells you get as Sage or Demon?

Also, for the FoW aoe thing...is anyone ever within 3 meters of another person? That seems REALLY close unless you're like pk'ing a Zhen party it doesn't seem useful.

edit: I found most of this on Pandora's updated guide. Are there any other skills that aren't mentioned there?

Pandora's guide answers the chi questions, the triple spark eruptions, which are also on ecatomb, you just need to click the "Skill" text atop the selections and "upgrade it" to Hell/Heaven.

To reply, Heaven skills are kind of TW oriented. FoW may not seem useful to you, but if you entered war, you would understand its use. During TW people tend to be cluttered together when they are at gates and such. A well landed 3 meter seal can make a big difference at that point. Truly, it is an awfully small radius, but you never know, right?

Sage/Demon or Heaven/Hell

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