FAC or Support Cleric?

OSuperNovAo - Sanctuary
OSuperNovAo - Sanctuary Posts: 3 Arc User
edited January 2009 in Cleric
Simple question, which is better for a beginner? FAC or support?
Post edited by OSuperNovAo - Sanctuary on
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Comments

  • Amiris - Sanctuary
    Amiris - Sanctuary Posts: 1,167 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    They're equally suited for beginners, though they're both moneydrainers as well. FAC's are easy to get the hang of, but they run out of mana fast. Supports take a bit of getting used to, but they only start sucking mana at higher lvls.
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  • OSuperNovAo - Sanctuary
    OSuperNovAo - Sanctuary Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    Ok, I was thinking about being FAC because from reading some of the threads on clerics, it seems that support are very party reliant, and I'd prefer to be able to solo when needed.
    One more question though, will my healing still be good enough to help in parties when I need them?
  • tankhunter
    tankhunter Posts: 120 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    As a FAC your healing is going to be restricted to Ironheart Blessing, and stacking it alot since it is a cost efficient heal. Besides that you wont have the party buffs, or the res level of a support healer. Your position in a party would be secondary healer/damage dealer.

    So yes, in a party you will be able to help, and make up for lack of a support cleric in a pinch.
  • Deadbone - Lost City
    Deadbone - Lost City Posts: 149 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    go Hybrid
    only build that will get u to higher levels

    FAC = BAD!!!!!!
  • Pandora - Lost City
    Pandora - Lost City Posts: 454 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    FAC clerics are horrible. All decent guilds on the PVP server kick full attack clerics.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Because the bigger your damage, the bigger your epeen.
  • _WillFire_ - Sanctuary
    _WillFire_ - Sanctuary Posts: 563 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    Pandora - Lost City wrote: »
    FAC clerics are horrible. All decent guilds on the PVP server kick full attack clerics.

    And you don't like compitition. Who stunned you and kicked your hiney? b:chuckle

    Both support and FAC are good builds. At higher levels there really isn't much difference between the two. Go with what you like.
    Mark 12:29-37
    _WillFire_ 8x Combat Medic
  • Keyne - Heavens Tear
    Keyne - Heavens Tear Posts: 202 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    Not really a simple question.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • razere
    razere Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    I fail to understand how a level 54 is a more reliable source of information about what happens at higher levels, than, say, a level 84 AND a level 88.
  • Darknin - Lost City
    Darknin - Lost City Posts: 378 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    Go with whatever you choose though I like FAC myself.b:victory
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Envy - Lost City
    Envy - Lost City Posts: 540 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    _WillFire_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    And you don't like compitition. Who stunned you and kicked your hiney? b:chuckle

    Both support and FAC are good builds. At higher levels there really isn't much difference between the two. Go with what you like.

    Your 52

    Pure int EPs are ****

    gg
  • Daoso - Heavens Tear
    Daoso - Heavens Tear Posts: 51 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    Pandora - Lost City wrote: »
    FAC clerics are horrible. All decent guilds on the PVP server kick full attack clerics.

    ...The OP isn't even on a pvp server. And he never said anything about pvp.
  • Envy - Lost City
    Envy - Lost City Posts: 540 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    Daoso - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    ...The OP isn't even on a pvp server. And he never said anything about pvp.

    good thing it doesnt matter what server you're on since FACs cant even do there job correctly
  • Azerandus - Sanctuary
    Azerandus - Sanctuary Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    Envy - Lost City wrote: »
    good thing it doesnt matter what server you're on since FACs cant even do there job correctly
    And what job is that exactly? This is a game... it's made to have fun. There is no set "job" for any class. You play the way you want to. Just because someone doesn't play the way *you* want them to it doesn't mean they're not doing their "job" correctly.

    I will be the first to admit that I have very little experience with this game but the amount of flak that FAC are getting from everyone is just ridiculous. I personally am not going FAC but that's only because it's my choice. I like flying around randomly buffing people. That's the "job" I chose to play because I find it fun.

    So... as far as I'm concerned as long as you're having fun playing the game, you are doing your "job" correctly.

    Now... in answer to the original question... seeing as I'm a beginner... I've had absolutely no problem so far with my support cleric build. I've mostly been following this thread:

    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1331

    And I haven't tried a FAC, but my build right now isn't too much different than an FAC, so... I'd guess they're both equally suited to beginners.
  • Envy - Lost City
    Envy - Lost City Posts: 540 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    Azerandus - Sanctuary wrote: »
    And what job is that exactly? This is a game... it's made to have fun. There is no set "job" for any class. You play the way you want to. Just because someone doesn't play the way *you* want them to it doesn't mean they're not doing their "job" correctly.

    I will be the first to admit that I have very little experience with this game but the amount of flak that FAC are getting from everyone is just ridiculous. I personally am not going FAC but that's only because it's my choice. I like flying around randomly buffing people. That's the "job" I chose to play because I find it fun.

    So... as far as I'm concerned as long as you're having fun playing the game, you are doing your "job" correctly.

    Now... in answer to the original question... seeing as I'm a beginner... I've had absolutely no problem so far with my support cleric build. I've mostly been following this thread:

    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1331

    And I haven't tried a FAC, but my build right now isn't too much different than an FAC, so... I'd guess they're both equally suited to beginners.

    Your class has an assigned job in this game.

    If you want freedom to make your character how ever you want while not needing to get competitive and without making the game overly difficult i suggest playing a differnt game.

    If you have fun being 100% useless and grinding on your own (which is damn near impossible in this game) and frustrate yourself to no end because this game can become very difficult to level in, go for it.
  • tankhunter
    tankhunter Posts: 120 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    Envy - Lost City wrote: »
    Your class has an assigned job in this game.

    If you want freedom to make your character how ever you want while not needing to get competitive and without making the game overly difficult i suggest playing a differnt game.

    If you have fun being 100% useless and grinding on your own (which is damn near impossible in this game) and frustrate yourself to no end because this game can become very difficult to level in, go for it.

    Then why does the Cleric class even have its debuffs and offensive skills if all they are meant to do is keep YOU happy?

    Hell, a person could probably just use a FAC build initially to power level more effectively to what level they are going to start looking to go into PvP and then start skilling up the heals and go into a Support Cleric style.

    If you see that does the FAC build suck? Since by level 90 every Cleric is going to inevitably, despite whatever build they started with are going to wind up exactly the same.

    Ok, ok, ok, so level 70-90 is going to be hell levels for a FAC, which is where you, Deadbones, and Pandora shoot them down when they are within range of being able to switch over to fitting your view. Its never too late to use those stat resets to add some vit into a build now is there? Or, prevent reseting those vit points for mag?

    Instead of just bashing FAC builds, why not make suggestions of what point they begin to enter a higher level PvP style of fighting and it would be good for them to switch to skilling those heals back up? Should go fairly fast at that point catching up, and if you run into FACs following your suggestion, give them a little bit of a boost to getting those stat reset notes and adding vit to their build.

    Hell, make a guide that does a systematical, comprehensive, comparison of FACs and SCs in high level PvP/TW and post it. Use the examples to prove your points, not your own personal grudge.

    I would rather see such an argument, then you, Deadbones, and Pandora running about saying it sucks.
  • Envy - Lost City
    Envy - Lost City Posts: 540 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    tankhunter wrote: »
    Then why does the Cleric class even have its debuffs and offensive skills if all they are meant to do is keep YOU happy?
    When did I say all they're suppose to do is keep me happy?
  • Azerandus - Sanctuary
    Azerandus - Sanctuary Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    Envy - Lost City wrote: »
    When did I say all they're suppose to do is keep me happy?

    You haven't. Well... not in as many words anyway. But you have been trying to convince people that the way they play isn't fun. That is the height of arrogance to think that you have the right to tell people what they do and don't like.

    You have your opinions on the build. You think it fails at higher levels, that's fine. You can try to convince people of this. But use facts. I thing tankhunter has the right idea here. Make a guide. Or at least use numbers in your arguments. Compare damage between different classes with numbers.

    Frankly your argument, as far as I've been able to tell from all of the posts I've seen saying that FAC are a bad build, has consisted of (with variations of course) "FAC suk. I say so. I'm a higher lvl than you so I'm right, you're wrong. k. thx. bi"

    Sure you say that mages and archers out damage FAC at higher levels. Prove it. I'm still a lowbie, so your opinion could be jaded and right now I'm disinclined to believe you only because of all the trash talk I've been hearing without actual evidence to support it.

    So this is my challenge to you. Prove your claims. Make a thread, get it stickied. Refer new players to that thread along with the others and let them decide for themselves. Sure, you can continue to try and convince people, but then you'll have proof to support it.
  • Pandora - Lost City
    Pandora - Lost City Posts: 454 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    Then why does the Cleric class even have its debuffs and offensive skills if all they are meant to do is keep YOU happy?

    For one of the high level priests who can afford these buffs to debuff the target when I call it out.

    "Deadbone, when you're done healing, drop mdef on my target so we can spike."

    This is called supporting. Just because the debuff shows up on the enemy rather than a buff showing up on an ally doesn't mean it's not supportive. He's using his skills to raise our damage.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Because the bigger your damage, the bigger your epeen.
  • _WillFire_ - Sanctuary
    _WillFire_ - Sanctuary Posts: 563 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    Az and Tankhunter are right.

    Pandora, Deadbone, Envy...so far your arguement lacks pretty much everything other than "I say so".

    At least Canyeon's guide gives numbers to check.

    Personally I think y'all are a little nutty. You don't like FAC...fair enough. The level of flak you throw out though is personal. Show folks that the build isn't viable. I'm betting you can't. Especially in the high levels.

    This reminds me of the debate between BM's and Barb's. Barb's don't come into thier true strength until very late in the game. Then they are truly dangerous. Great tanks...but not much else until then.

    As far as your "great experience" goes I'll wager I beat just about everyone in this game. I've been playing these things since thier infancy so your appeal to experience and authority means jack to me. I've been GM many times over guilds that dominated on both PvE and PvP servers ( other games ). Frankly all of these games are a social form of solitaire when boiled down to the basics.

    So for all of you Clerics out there...have fun. That's what it's all about. The capability to be either FSC or FAC was built into the game.

    Peace
    Mark 12:29-37
    _WillFire_ 8x Combat Medic
  • Saitada - Sanctuary
    Saitada - Sanctuary Posts: 3,220 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    _WillFire_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    As far as your "great experience" goes I'll wager I beat just about everyone in this game. I've been playing these things since thier infancy so your appeal to experience and authority means jack to me. I've been GM many times over guilds that dominated on both PvE and PvP servers ( other games ). Frankly all of these games are a social form of solitaire when boiled down to the basics.

    So for all of you Clerics out there...have fun. That's what it's all about. The capability to be either FSC or FAC was built into the game.

    Peace

    Closed Beta tested Everquest, ran 8 accounts, 8 characters per account. All time geared. Played both PvE and PvP servers (Monks! FTW!). Ran a PvP server guild till I handed the reigns over when I quit EQ. Played EvEOnline and lived in 0.0 space (full pvp) no place is truly safe. Been involved in 1200 man fleet battles between BoB and GoonSwarm. True PvP lies in nullsec!

    My experience is telling me that someone (pandora and crowd) has gotten on a self rightous high horse and believes they've the right to tell others that the only opinions that matter is their own and everyone else is wrong.

    When that happens, it leads one to believe that they have lost track of what an MMORPG is... a GAME. Played by people who come to have FUN, as they see fit. If you take a GAME so serious that you need to spew such vitriol all over the forums.. it's time you unplugged and went outside for a bit and relax.

    You have become TOO involved and OBSESSED over a game.

    Saitada
  • swgs
    swgs Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    All of the arguments so far are focused on skills a FAC gets and a FSC gets. Skills does distinguish FAC and FSC, but it is not the root of the issue. The root issue is most FAC (if not all) ARE NOT willing to play supporting role, they choice to be a FAC is because they want to solo, want to fight and want to be heal themselves when soloing. When a FAC player in a team, their focus is usually how to kill. A player willing to play support role will get all the supporting skills they ABSOLUTLY NEED before they get offensive skills, those players will focus on healing, debuffing and such when play in a team. So regardless if a cleric can get all skills after 90 or not, I personally do not think a FAC is the best fit for any group. In order to be a team player, you do what you do best.
  • Keyne - Heavens Tear
    Keyne - Heavens Tear Posts: 202 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    I personally do not agree with the way Pandora and his counterpart are flaming FACs. It still boils down to a personal choice. It is true that FAC are not really meant to be in a supporting role and do not function well in a group except maybe as backup to a FSC. I chose to be a Hybrid FSC becuse I wanted to be able to do support, but I cant stand not being able to protect myself and did not want to completely rely on groups to level me up. Either way it is pretty good for a beginner. Practice those heals though. No matter what, your gonna need it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Pandora - Lost City
    Pandora - Lost City Posts: 454 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    _WillFire_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Az and Tankhunter are right.

    http://i42.tinypic.com/a1r615.jpg
    Been involved in 1200 man fleet battles between BoB and GoonSwarm. True PvP lies in nullsec!

    When did 1200 people become large scale? Try a lineage 2 siege please.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Because the bigger your damage, the bigger your epeen.
  • thundercrash
    thundercrash Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    Easier for new people :: Full support cleric, IMO.

    EDIT: But better, is really dependent to your style.
  • Envy - Lost City
    Envy - Lost City Posts: 540 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    _WillFire_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Az and Tankhunter are right.

    Pandora, Deadbone, Envy...so far your arguement lacks pretty much everything other than "I say so".

    At least Canyeon's guide gives numbers to check.

    Personally I think y'all are a little nutty. You don't like FAC...fair enough. The level of flak you throw out though is personal. Show folks that the build isn't viable. I'm betting you can't. Especially in the high levels.

    This reminds me of the debate between BM's and Barb's. Barb's don't come into thier true strength until very late in the game. Then they are truly dangerous. Great tanks...but not much else until then.

    As far as your "great experience" goes I'll wager I beat just about everyone in this game. I've been playing these things since thier infancy so your appeal to experience and authority means jack to me. I've been GM many times over guilds that dominated on both PvE and PvP servers ( other games ). Frankly all of these games are a social form of solitaire when boiled down to the basics.

    So for all of you Clerics out there...have fun. That's what it's all about. The capability to be either FSC or FAC was built into the game.

    Peace

    How about this..

    I say FAC clerics suck because I have the in game experience, you dont. Go find somebody 8x to argue with me over whether or not FAC suck... oh wait... nobody 8x disagrees with me... GG

    b:shocked
  • Deadbone - Lost City
    Deadbone - Lost City Posts: 149 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    great so u have experience in OTHER mmos
    good for u
    just doesnt help u in THIS game
    its fun how everybody of reasonable level agrees although Envy and me are even in enemy guilds and are killing each other regularly
  • Saitada - Sanctuary
    Saitada - Sanctuary Posts: 3,220 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    Pandora - Lost City wrote: »
    http://i42.tinypic.com/a1r615.jpg



    When did 1200 people become large scale? Try a lineage 2 siege please.

    Never played Lineage. But i'm doubting it has 1200+ man battles based on your word alone. here this is something to consider...

    "But the harsh reality is that there are limitations of server technology that hinder large scale conflicts. Bring a few hundred of your friends to a battle and you might not be fighting so much as watching a slide show."

    So I doubt lineage has battles with more than 1200 people unless they have miraculously invented servers now that can handle "huge" battles. Try again.. your fail-sauce is showing.

    Eve has trouble handling 600-1200 man battles on single node shard/servers (they freeze or lock.. switch to dedicated and then you have jumpgate issues and the mother of all lag). Jita (trade hub) fills up to 1200+ and is on a dedicated blade and still has lag. You might convince me you have more numbers if I was a noob. but w/o proof.. your failure sounds like "oh yeah, my dad can beat up your dad".

    b:laugh

    No offense m8, but honestly, you come onto the forums, start ranting (and thats EXACTLY what it is a rant) and try to tell everyone they can't play as they choose to or build their characters as they want to because YOU say something doesn't work and therefore are god and all must bend to your mighty will, intelligence and body odor. Fill thread after thread with your two little flunkies following loyally behind you yes manning your comments.. you sound like a real **** and at best maybe in your early 20's age wise. If your older, you need to do some serious growing up and re-evaluate how you talk to people.

    I've YET to see you post any DATA. Just 'your opinion' " I'm uber 80+ and know everything there is to know and you can't have a build like that because it fails...." The problem is.. it fails for YOU. People with FAC's enjoy them for what they are and do for themselves, not for some little e-peening martinet like you. You don't want them around in your faction, that is your choice as it's leader. But you have no right to tell ANYONE to stop playing as they see fit to play.

    Saitada
  • Saitada - Sanctuary
    Saitada - Sanctuary Posts: 3,220 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    Deadbone - Lost City wrote: »
    great so u have experience in OTHER mmos
    good for u
    just doesnt help u in THIS game
    its fun how everybody of reasonable level agrees although Envy and me are even in enemy guilds and are killing each other regularly

    And that statement is where YOU fail. Experience in "other MMO's" does in fact help me in THIS MMO, I played Everquest and a number of other fantasy based games from the day they came out and in everquests case, before it was avialable to the public as a closed beta tester.

    I've made every class/type character that can be made in "those other mmos" and played around with many different builds and some do fail miserably, others do what I wanted them to do, even though they were not "built right" The key words are "Do what I wanted them to do".

    This is where you guys are failing miserably. Your vitriol is consistently "don't do it blah blah blah" but no data to back it up. Sorry m8 but three people saying "bad way to build a toon, don't do it" out of how many multiple thousands of players? Thats like pissing in the wind, it doesn't work.

    Back up your statements with hard fact. Do your experiments. SHOW don't "say" and you "might" convince people to your side.. but "yap yap yap yap don't do it because I say so yap yap yap yap" won't ever do it.

    Just makes you sound like your 10.

    Saitada
  • Envy - Lost City
    Envy - Lost City Posts: 540 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »
    And that statement is where YOU fail. Experience in "other MMO's" does in fact help me in THIS MMO, I played Everquest and a number of other fantasy based games from the day they came out and in everquests case, before it was avialable to the public as a closed beta tester.

    I've made every class/type character that can be made in "those other mmos" and played around with many different builds and some do fail miserably, others do what I wanted them to do, even though they were not "built right" The key words are "Do what I wanted them to do".

    This is where you guys are failing miserably. Your vitriol is consistently "don't do it blah blah blah" but no data to back it up. Sorry m8 but three people saying "bad way to build a toon, don't do it" out of how many multiple thousands of players? Thats like pissing in the wind, it doesn't work.



    And how many of those players matter for ****? It's called experience, you've never tried this build to a decent level and we're trying to prevent you from doing so.

    Btw, your post makes you look like a ignorant *****.

    Also this game isn't the same as other games just as most games aren't, it's like going from Quake 3 and trying to play CS:S.
  • Ermosa - Heavens Tear
    Ermosa - Heavens Tear Posts: 292 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    well if u choose FAC then go solo. if someone asking for cleric in world chat then don't even reply. people need cleric who can heal
    [SIGPIC]http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z130/saleniece/ermosa1-1.gif[/SIGPIC]

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