FAC or Support Cleric?

Saitada - Sanctuary

Every MMO, even EVE has similiarities that translate over. if your not intelligent enough to SEE them, then yes your statement would be true.

Again you fail to realize that people build a class for THEIR enjoyment, they don't care a wit if they matter to some arrogant pricks that think their way is the only way (sounds too christian if you ask me, i'm right your wrong, your gonna burn in hell!)

My statement and post is accurate, your just to closed minded to see past your eyes that people play the way they want to. the IGNORANCE here is yours. As for calling me a ****... lol ok whatever. I said I made my characters to DO WHAT I wanted them to do. Not you, or anyone else.

Thats where YOU fail. YOU forget that YOU play YOUR character(s) as YOU see fit, not MINE or ANYONE ELSES.

Maybe a FAC build sucks, maybe it doesn't. I don't know because I havent built one. But here again lies the realm of personal choice your statement is whats telling "were trying to prevent you from doing so" Your trying to prevent me from building MY characters as I see fit? rotflmfao. Ok whatever.

back to your fail-sauce "this game isn't the same as other games" wrong. it's a cookie cutter clone of a hundred free MMO's just like it. Most of my characters in Everquest would translate to this game with relative ease and very little difficulty. Your statement shows your opinion, but fails in the facts department.

But back to the topic.. are you right about FAC's failing? you might be.. but you have nothing but your own words to back it up. Experience? Ok I'll give your "levels" that, but experience doesn't automatically translate into knowledge.

Heres some facts for you....

I and many others play as we want to. Because we like our play style.

I and many others build "odd" builds just to see what would happen.

I and many others couldn't care one wit what you or any other arrogant self rightous ***** thinks about our builds.

I and many others will continue to build our characters as we see fit to do so. We run them. Not you.

So for all your vitriol (gotta love that word) you have only accomplished this... revealing yourselves to be arrogant, self rightous, self important, ******. And your too stupid to even see it.

Saitada

Darknin - Lost City

Dam Saitada, impressive. ^-^

Logic does beat ranting. <--Period

Though no doubt Pandora and her lackeys aren't going to be too pleased with it. I for one whole-heartedly agree 100% that Pandora had no right to tell us how to make OUR characters. I told him this from the beginning yet he pulled his **** out and followed it. I would expect his friends to do so too seeing as how they have followed him from the other threads. So I believe he has recruited backup in a sense due to his fail-sauce. (COULD BE WRONG)

People need to stop obsessing over pixels (and stop getting off on it), and learn to live a real life. You know outside where there is real air and oxygen with the beauty of nature, maybe land yourself a girlfriend or boyfriend, possibly go out on a date with them. That would do some good instead of making a fool of yourself in a forum where you do not belong or wanted in. Getting off on pixels all you g.i.r.l. (guys in real life) does not promote your self-esteem. If you honestly think the comments your going to get from another "guy"/girl (**** in real life, plays a male. WHO KNOWS!?) makes you feel better, getting a real one makes you feel even better. Pounds holding your esteem back? Go on a diet, try some exercise. YES it will not show at first. BUT DONT give up and keep going at it and progress will show. Happy with who you are? YAY!!! Good Jobb:cute, now that your happy find someone who will be happy for you. Bad luck at dating? well theres always eharmony.comb:victory. If your a "loser" just make some friends, lay down some flirts, search tricks on how to date in google. Go out in the field in practice. Practice makes perfect. It is like a game but it requires actual strategyb:thanks

Now I may be going far out with calling the people behind girls in this game fat, and a loser but the majority of the pervs on here needless to say might be this, or think this. (COULD BE WRONG, Very sorry if I am.b:surrender)


Though who am I to say this? Some noob who does not know what he is talking about? I'm sorry I would rather spend my time in REAL-LIFE where IT ACTUALLY COUNTS FOR SOMETHING!!!

Sorry again if I offended anyone...

Now to return to the topic:
Pandora this thread was wrong from the beginning. The way you go about this topic was and you dam well knew this a ticking bomb. If you simply have went about it a different way, maybe people would have accepted it. But yelling at us (CAPS AND BOLD= YELLING ON A FORUM/GAME) . No rule about this? Well that is how it is interpreted. If you actually spent the time from your supposed FAC, and showed us the Pros, and Cons of this build. How it is in the upper levels (80+) and what we need to do to fix it and make everyone happy. Would have been the best possible way about this topic. Rants are not needed and never accepted. If the Devs ONLY wanted clerics to heal then they would have ONLY allowed us to roll a FS build and not have put in the option to FAC. BUT because they allowed this build to be possible then they allowed people the opportunity to choose their own path. Isn't this what makes a game special? You chose your Mage path, why? Answer: BECAUSE IT SUITS YOU AND HOW YOU WANT TO FIGHT, AND PLAY. This argument is OVER, it has BEEN OVER. The only reason it survived this long is because YOU (Plus your LACKEYS) disregarded the truth in the FAC supporters arguments.


I do believe you made this topic to show off your "elitist" ego. I understand everyone has different social needs, and pyschological needs. I also understand that they need to be fulfilled so one can feel content with themselves, but SERIOUSLY?! This is how you go about it? (Could be wrong again) If this is true, (and you could be in denial about this, guessing from how you post now) You need to seriously reconsider your mental state. I'm saying this because there is a problem, you have shown it well ever since I heard about you.

You may have a reputation to withold being the leader of a well-known (not in such a good way) PK guild. Well how bout leading it where people will actually look up to you and not fear you. (Though I doubt anyone does )

Please seriously consider what me and Saitada have said, and make an actual counter-argument with the cold hard facts, and not the useless rants that get you and your lackeys no where.

I could just be completely guessing too, if that is the case No offense, but your attitude seriously is reflecting what me and Sai stated.
Play Style is all that matters in this game, not some opinion of yours and others. This is like Christianity in the early days where missionaries forced the citizens from the land they took over to worship their god, the only god. That their opinion is the right one and the only one. That is wrong. Though religion does not have much say in a game (besides influence for a storyline/background) it shows how many comparisons and differences you can find in a game.

OH AND I HIGHLY DOUBT THAT YOU ARE GOING TO READ ALL THIS. SO IF YOU DON'T, JUST PROVES US RIGHT EVEN MORE :P
MAKE AN ACTUAL ARGUMENT THIS TIME EH?

Best of Lucks,
Brad

Envy - Lost City

Darknin - Lost City wrote: »

Dam Saitada, impressive. ^-^

Logic does beat ranting. <--Period

Though no doubt Pandora and her lackeys aren't going to be too pleased with it. I for one whole-heartedly agree 100% that Pandora had no right to tell us how to make OUR characters. I told him this from the beginning yet he pulled his **** out and followed it. I would expect his friends to do so too seeing as how they have followed him from the other threads. So I believe he has recruited backup in a sense due to his fail-sauce. (COULD BE WRONG)

People need to stop obsessing over pixels (and stop getting off on it), and learn to live a real life. You know outside where there is real air and oxygen with the beauty of nature, maybe land yourself a girlfriend or boyfriend, possibly go out on a date with them. That would do some good instead of making a fool of yourself in a forum where you do not belong or wanted in. Getting off on pixels all you g.i.r.l. (guys in real life) does not promote your self-esteem. If you honestly think the comments your going to get from another "guy"/girl (**** in real life, plays a male. WHO KNOWS!?) makes you feel better, getting a real one makes you feel even better. Pounds holding your esteem back? Go on a diet, try some exercise. YES it will not show at first. BUT DONT give up and keep going at it and progress will show. Happy with who you are? YAY!!! Good Jobb:cute, now that your happy find someone who will be happy for you. Bad luck at dating? well theres always eharmony.comb:victory. If your a "loser" just make some friends, lay down some flirts, search tricks on how to date in google. Go out in the field in practice. Practice makes perfect. It is like a game but it requires actual strategyb:thanks

Now I may be going far out with calling the people behind girls in this game fat, and a loser but the majority of the pervs on here needless to say might be this, or think this. (COULD BE WRONG, Very sorry if I am.b:surrender)


Though who am I to say this? Some noob who does not know what he is talking about? I'm sorry I would rather spend my time in REAL-LIFE where IT ACTUALLY COUNTS FOR SOMETHING!!!

Sorry again if I offended anyone...

Now to return to the topic:
Pandora this thread was wrong from the beginning. The way you go about this topic was and you dam well knew this a ticking bomb. If you simply have went about it a different way, maybe people would have accepted it. But yelling at us (CAPS AND BOLD= YELLING ON A FORUM/GAME) . No rule about this? Well that is how it is interpreted. If you actually spent the time from your supposed FAC, and showed us the Pros, and Cons of this build. How it is in the upper levels (80+) and what we need to do to fix it and make everyone happy. Would have been the best possible way about this topic. Rants are not needed and never accepted. If the Devs ONLY wanted clerics to heal then they would have ONLY allowed us to roll a FS build and not have put in the option to FAC. BUT because they allowed this build to be possible then they allowed people the opportunity to choose their own path. Isn't this what makes a game special? You chose your Mage path, why? Answer: BECAUSE IT SUITS YOU AND HOW YOU WANT TO FIGHT, AND PLAY. This argument is OVER, it has BEEN OVER. The only reason it survived this long is because YOU (Plus your LACKEYS) disregarded the truth in the FAC supporters arguments.


I do believe you made this topic to show off your "elitist" ego. I understand everyone has different social needs, and pyschological needs. I also understand that they need to be fulfilled so one can feel content with themselves, but SERIOUSLY?! This is how you go about it? (Could be wrong again) If this is true, (and you could be in denial about this, guessing from how you post now) You need to seriously reconsider your mental state. I'm saying this because there is a problem, you have shown it well ever since I heard about you.

You may have a reputation to withold being the leader of a well-known (not in such a good way) PK guild. Well how bout leading it where people will actually look up to you and not fear you. (Though I doubt anyone does )

Please seriously consider what me and Saitada have said, and make an actual counter-argument with the cold hard facts, and not the useless rants that get you and your lackeys no where.

I could just be completely guessing too, if that is the case No offense, but your attitude seriously is reflecting what me and Sai stated.
Play Style is all that matters in this game, not some opinion of yours and others. This is like Christianity in the early days where missionaries forced the citizens from the land they took over to worship their god, the only god. That their opinion is the right one and the only one. That is wrong. Though religion does not have much say in a game (besides influence for a storyline/background) it shows how many comparisons and differences you can find in a game.

OH AND I HIGHLY DOUBT THAT YOU ARE GOING TO READ ALL THIS. SO IF YOU DON'T, JUST PROVES US RIGHT EVEN MORE :P
MAKE AN ACTUAL ARGUMENT THIS TIME EH?

Best of Lucks,
Brad

You took the time to write all that out, bold and under line certain parts, and elabortaly go through idk what becuase i stopped reading after the "no lifes" comment.

Maybe instead of writing internet essays for people who dont care/ arnt going to read it, you should go out and have a life.

thnx,
envy ~

Saitada - Sanctuary

Envy - Lost City wrote: »

You took the time to write all that out, bold and under line certain parts, and elabortaly go through idk what becuase i stopped reading after the "no lifes" comment.

Maybe instead of writing internet essays for people who dont care/ arnt going to read it, you should go out and have a life.

thnx,
envy ~

Maybe instead of writing rants about how people should only play one type of character you should take your own advice here.

I'm perfectly content to let you play your characters as you see fit. My question for you is why are you unable to let others do the same? Control issues much? Remember Envy, when all the BS is washed away on all sides.. at the end of the day, it's literally JUST a game. Nothing more. When people get obsessed about insignificant details in a game, they have lost their grasp on reality...

IT

IS

JUST

A

GAME

And not a particularly great one at that.

Saitada

Darknin - Lost City

Envy - Lost City wrote: »

You took the time to write all that out, bold and under line certain parts, and elabortaly go through idk what becuase i stopped reading after the "no lifes" comment.

Maybe instead of writing internet essays for people who dont care/ arnt going to read it, you should go out and have a life.

thnx,
envy ~

Knew you wouldn't reply to anything of significance in that.

That only proves that your wrong in your argument and can't learn how to discuss anything and put actual thought behind your senseless rantsb:victory

bobzilla21

Envy - Lost City wrote: »

You took the time to write all that out, bold and under line certain parts, and elabortaly go through idk what becuase i stopped reading after the "no lifes" comment.

Maybe instead of writing internet essays for people who dont care/ arnt going to read it, you should go out and have a life.

thnx,
envy ~

...you could probably say the same about yourself as well since you're bothering to waste your time arguing about something so trivial.

This really applies for anyone that's bothering with this whole argument about FACs. I mean, seriously, Darknin, why'd you bother to calculate all that math? What a waste of time...

Darknin - Lost City

bobzilla21 wrote: »

This really applies for anyone that's bothering with this whole argument about FACs. I mean, seriously, Darknin, why'd you bother to calculate all that math? What a waste of time...

I didn't calculate math, just psychological stuffsb:bye

bobzilla21

oops, sorry darknin, I meant willfire. You have the same avatars, that probably messed me up.

Pandora - Lost City

Darknin - Lost City wrote: »

Now to return to the topic:
Pandora this thread was wrong from the beginning. The way you go about this topic was and you dam well knew this a ticking bomb.

Didn't make this thread.

P.S: FAC are a joke.

Xiphox - Lost City

Darknin the point is you wont be able to do ur job at a high lvl great for lvling and thats about it.

Darknin - Lost City

Pandora - Lost City wrote: »

Didn't make this thread.

P.S: FAC are a joke.

You started the whole raid on em so...

Xiphox - Lost City wrote: »

Darknin the point is you wont be able to do ur job at a high lvl great for lvling and thats about it.

My job as an fac is to solo and hold out in a 1v1 PvP or any random PvP. Thats it.

bobzilla21

Pandora - Lost City wrote: »

P.S: FAC are a joke.

Exactly, FAC's were made to be fun to play with. That's pretty much the whole point of a game, isn't it?

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Pandora - Lost City wrote: »

Didn't make this thread.

P.S: FAC are a joke.

It doesnt take experience in a certain game, nor years of playing, nor being a squad leader, or doing PvP to realize that extending your ideals (of a certain job) from within the rules needed in your own personal group (in this case faction), in an unmannerly fashion that forces opinions in other pples face, is unnessesary. (KKK anyone?)

Half of this talk already isnt about FSC or FAC, its just about whos writing things disrespectfully knowing theyll never see the pple on the other side of the screen. Dont give pple any less etiquette than you would in RL, because if this is how some posters in here act out of internet, then some of them need serious counceling.

Not even half the pple on the whole PW game put together, whether it be malaysia, china, japan, US, EU servers have finished and capped to their full lvl. "I have more experience in the game" isnt really a valid excuse that anyone can backup their arguement with because lo and behold, your only 1/2 to 2/3 through with your lvl, experience, and gameplay.

ItsTooEasy - Sanctuary

I'm a FAC on Sanctuary, and I know I'm gonna get hella replies saying " Ur not on a real surver cuz it PvE" so please save it. my thoughts on the subject are that FAC and FSC are equally as good as forward as PvE is concerned (assuming both are full mag). All of heals of a cleric give a base and a % of mag attack. When it comes to dungeons they are just as efficient and anyone that says other wise is a fool. The only spell i've lvl'd in the heal category is ironheart and its maxed. No FSC with the exact same gear/lvl can out heal me. Yes, the basic role of a cleric is to heal and thats what i do when there isn't any other cleric present, but if there is a FSC in the party guess what role i play....You got it!!! DEBUFF as should a real veno (maxed amp dmg) outside of luring. I also support heal the tank and if anyone does something stupid cuz as far as i'm concerned the only person in the party that should be taking dmg is the barb and the veno pet. the biggest difference is when it comes to soloing/questing. i hit waaaay harder than a FSC so i finish quests a hell of a lot faster. As forward as PvP is concerned. I've participated in 4 TWs and i've been killing all robe wearers, BMs, and some barbs my lvl (if they dont have cleric support). The trickiest classes to kill are archers cuz of range and light armor venos in fox form(soul trans plus charm/w phy def is a ***** lol). I have realized that up to lv 60 clerics hit FACs are the hardest hitting class without the help of any other class(outside buffs) and thats cuz wiz doesnt have undine and manifest virtue yet.

Bottom line go full int FAC till you hit 60 then go light armor, dont get tempest (too long to cast for pvp), and make sure you have Regn aura and get Wrath for those two cleric parties.

macchin

Not sure why anyone is bothering to argue this really. Here are the basic things from what I've browsed.

-Sorry, experience in other games doesn't give you experience in this game. Like someone said, changing from Quake to CS won't work well. There are similarities, and you'll do better than someone who hasn't played either, but you're not qualified to lecture cal-i players.

-At end game, there is no difference between FSC/FAC (except maybe more vit in FSC, either way easily changed). The difference is in the attitude/mindset of the player. Someone who is considering a FAC isn't looking to be support. They want a Mage with different utility than the real Mage. So what does that mean? It means you can't convince them otherwise. Everyone has a role they can play based on their class and their beliefs on how to use their class' skills. Sorry to say, someone who wants a FAC doesn't have the "team" mindset and they can find that out for themselves. People don't want a Cleric that doesn't support. If you don't care about that, or are too ignorant to believe the testimony of every high level character, just make a FAC. If you're even considering it, then you probably wouldn't make a good support Priest anyway.

Elrond - Heavens Tear

@Envy: Im sorry if you have trouble soloing past 70. I have yet to encounter this problem. In fact i find it extremely easy to grind post 70.

those of you who are bashing full attack clerics have yet to state explicitly what your dislike of them stems from.

Im gonna make it easy for you, multiple chose:
A) I hate FAC because they are pure MAG and hence have lower survivability
I hate FAC because they wont heal
C) I hate FAC because they heal more then me
D) I hate FAC because they do more dmg then me.

feel free to chose multiple answers.

There are 2 things that can influence a FAC. The first is there build - they have to go pure MAG anything less is contrary to the idea of a attack cleric. And the second is there skill set and how they use it.

My person skill set involves iornheart, ress, and Bubble. Everything else is buffs, dmg or debuffs. I am pure MAG and when i do dmg I rival pure MAG wizards (i will consead that they tend to do more dmg then FAC because they have more elements to use) And for damage in FB's i have to be carfull because if the tank is lower lvl then me i can steal agro.

As for healing, Iornheart is the best healing skill for a long time, late late game it starts to fade out. My heals are bigger then most other clerics because my magic attack is so high (5600 at 78). I can add more healing power then other clerics.

Now that said the drawback to pure magic is less hp. There are a few bosses in TT that i can not stay alive to heal for and when im the only healer in a group we have to pass those bosses buy (this is about a 1/10 occurrence BTW).

In TW I die easly, that is partly to do with my pore gear as it is with my lack of vit. 1v1 i easily win.

Attack clerics can easly fit themselves into multiple Rolls. Which skills you get and when you get them will influence what rolls you can adapt to. Im still trying to lvl up my Tempest because i prioritized a little differently.

Nelae - Heavens Tear

Amiris - Sanctuary wrote: »

They're equally suited for beginners, though they're both moneydrainers as well. FAC's are easy to get the hang of, but they run out of mana fast. Supports take a bit of getting used to, but they only start sucking mana at higher lvls.

So wrong b:sad in any case you use up mp way to fast, but FAC can mob 6-10 easy till 30-40lv while others cant, putting spirit in iron heart, thats the only thing your party members wanna know, before anything else

turonga

bobzilla21 wrote: »

Exactly, FAC's were made to be fun to play with. That's pretty much the whole point of a game, isn't it?

Yes, the whole point of a game is to have fun and many people seem to miss that. By working harder your just not making it so fun for yourself, so choosing the best way to have fun is within your preferences. For me I like to chat a lot in parties and its always the tank that tells me to shutup but I can see why XD.

Fleuri - Sanctuary

Nelae - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So wrong b:sad in any case you use up mp way to fast, but FAC can mob 6-10 easy till 30-40lv while others cant, putting spirit in iron heart, thats the only thing your party members wanna know, before anything else

No?

I believe that iron heart's benefit depends on your party and your opponents.

And maybe you could get your best rewards from fights where frequent use of iron heart on a good tank is crucial, but this game does offer other situations, even if they are not so rewarding.

Nelae - Heavens Tear

Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »

No?

I believe that iron heart's benefit depends on your party and your opponents.

And maybe you could get your best rewards from fights where frequent use of iron heart on a good tank is crucial, but this game does offer other situations, even if they are not so rewarding.

I dont know abut you ppl, but when going on harder bosses still iron heart beats any thing else, and i know cause with my lv 28cleric i went solo helping 45-70lv ppl b:cute

Just a side note.
If you play random, dont know what to do then FAC is not for you.

silverkitty

Envy - Lost City wrote: »

Your class has an assigned job in this game.

Not precisely. A typical dungeon party needs: a support cleric, a barb, and a veno if the dungeon is mob heavy (otherwise optional). that leaves 3-4 slots for "other". there's absolutely no reason at all a FAC can't fit into one of the "other" slots.
on the other hand, it behooves a FAC not to answer "cleric needed!" world chats - when people say that they want a support cleric. but when the primary 2-3 roles are filled, a FAC is a fine addition to the other slots.

tweenskeet

Lol, I love watching the chaos between "sane" people and the infamous Pandora & RQ.

Rather then jumping into the conflict, watch and read the text with a 3rd person/party mindset, and gather information.

Customization justifies the FAC in itself, aswell as it's skills.

Now, for my mental notes:

Pandora stated that FAC "sucks"--"doing their job" isn't a good arguement, but stats and information would do, and for the most part, that's opinionated.

Reason why possibly being based on high-level information, the BIG point being that there's no distinguishing a FAC/F-SC. Might aswell say the Cleric becomes both. Only thing that shows is how one gets to this point through how one uses this resulting "Cleric".

For everyone else countering them, well, calm down, you don't even have to direct your arguement at them. GAMEplay, as any official would consider it, is dependent on ones actions, which is what all RPGs thrive upon. Going into things like flaming them, or standing on a high-horse, is going out of bounds. (Freedom of speech applies to both ends.)

Now, looking at things, FAC/FSC doesn't refer to the character, but it's user. FSC would be the original mind set for almost everyone, but FAC allows the person to choose another way of using a Cleric. See? The end result, you get all the skills, and you're just a Cleric. An FSC would get FAC's skills, and vice-versa. The fact that Cleric attack skills are compared to Wizard's shows they're on radar, so you can't expect a Cleric to be some defenseless healer--and you won't know what tactics the Cleric would use.

Personally, I'm using an FAC, and haven't had a single problem. "Personally" is a reference to myself as an individual, and my playing style and ability. Thanks to my healing/buffing skills and ability and willingness to use them, I can be a damn good supporter when I need it.

FAC/FSC are terms to describe:

1) The person and their style.

2) A leveling-method.

Have fun. I did reading this shizz.