Rare Class?

Frostzero - Sanctuary · November 2008

Today I started using a Wizard to see how I liked it.
Which apparently seems to be the parallel opposite to Barbarians, (a class in which the person who introduced me to this game suggested I be).

But during my like 3hrs or so of actual game time playing as it.
I rarely seen any other Wizards at all. Most of which were all Blademasters. I swear, I can count on my Fingers and Toes the amount of Wizards I have seen. Sad really....

In any case...
Can someone enlighten me as to why its seemingly so unpopular, or was it just coincidence?

Klath - Sanctuary · November 2008

Might be because wizards are crystal cannons, high damage and low survivability.
Takes a lot of levels and player skill using your class to handle a wizard sucessfully, while i doubt the same happens for any melee class, they have survival at their side (high hp and defense).

ark · November 2008

Wizards have many problems. First, they have to be high-levelled before they're even usable in PvP. 59 for semi-usefulness, 89 for total kickassness.

Second, they can't get HH parties easy.

Third, they're usually fairly stuck for money and sp.

It's worth it in the end, however...

/haiku/ - Lost City · November 2008

The reason that wizards aren't so popular is because they simply aren't the best at anything. They're a secondary damage dealer to an archer, a secondary healer to fill the void of a second cleric if needbe, secondary survivability to a cleric (plume shell), and they can even be replaced in zhens by a second archer. The list goes on and on.

I rather like my class despite that. <_< I was ok in pvp before 60, and I'm ok after.. but it's a bit easier to fend off a gank now. As for Holy Hall, getting runs as a wizard.. that is what your guild is for. Tbh I tank the magic bosses in favor of not having a cleric waste his charm with plume shell when a guild veno isn't on. Wizards have their uses, but there's an abundance of everything else 90%+ of the time and like I said, there's always another class that can do it better.

Edit: Oh, and another reason you see so few.. is probably because a lot of them go pure mag without realizing the consequences and drawbacks, and wind up quitting due to dying etc and not putting the time and effort into it to develop player skill, which is necessary to play a wizard correctly; albeit in different amounts for PvE and PvP. Many people think it's the most difficult class to master as well.

ark · November 2008

/haiku/ - Lost City wrote: »

The reason that wizards aren't so popular is because they simply aren't the best at anything. They're a secondary damage dealer to an archer, a secondary healer to fill the void of a second cleric if needbe, secondary survivability to a cleric (plume shell), and they can even be replaced in zhens by a second archer. The list goes on and on.

I rather like my class despite that. <_< I was ok in pvp before 60, and I'm ok after.. but it's a bit easier to fend off a gank now. As for Holy Hall, getting runs as a wizard.. that is what your guild is for. Tbh I tank the magic bosses in favor of not having a cleric waste his charm with plume shell when a guild veno isn't on. Wizards have their uses, but there's an abundance of everything else 90%+ of the time and there's always a class that can do it better, like I said.

Ah, please don't say that. Wizards have the #1 best damage, and can PK very dangerously due to it. They are the best at taking down Blademasters, and are the only class that has a chance of killing a hiero'd Beast. They also 1-hit kill most Archers. They're lethal.

... For PvE uses, you're right, but saying they aren't the best at anything is a bit much.

Klath - Sanctuary · November 2008

They're a secondary damage dealer to an archer

I really doubt that, the thundergod spell (i dont know the name, causes fire dmg and makes a circle of lightning around the wizard, so i just call as "thundergod") of wizards has managed to pull the aggro from a barbarian once or twice when i was partying on FB19s bosses, something an archer never managed to do (talking about people on their lvs 40-50 here).

/haiku/ - Lost City · November 2008

They really aren't until late in the game which most people have quit by, seeing as you can't unlock the majority of your heaven/hell skills until 99 anyway. Endgame isn't the same as while you're still getting there.

Sure, when maximized my damage is great. I landed a 35k crit on a boss today in an fb with amplify on my blade tempest. However, if I hadn't been the one already tanking that boss, that damage would have been a big problem. 'Course, if I weren't tanking, I wouldn't have touched BT, but you get the idea. In PK, yes, that damage is lethal, but so is an archer's and they're much faster. Archers that I can 1hko can 1hko me as well as most other robe wizards, and their stun shot makes it easy.

I don't see what's so special about wizards vs blademasters outside of TW. Tbh, they have the advantage due to stun, semi ranged skills, and that mdef "buff".. especially in the air where slows don't work, and most PK wars take place. I can 2 shot them, but they can 2-3 shot me as well, and my pdef is great for a robe. I would only call it an advantage if you're PKing them.

They are not the only class that can kill a charmed barbarian.. at least not one below 8x. I've seen other classes do it. If you're talking about a stacked barb, that's more plausible. Or if you mean 1shotting a charmed barb, then I would probably have to agree there.

I find wizards to be a very good and flexible class with many unique properties and benefits most people would ignore or are unwilling to stick it out to obtain.. I'm not trying to put 'em down or anything, I'm just saying that they're replaceable in most situations by another class throughout the majority of the game, and those others are typically more abundant. Just sayin'.

@Above poster, yes you can pull aggro in one shot, but that skill (blade tempest) has a 30 second cooldown and requires 2 spark to cast. It's far from spammable. Your overall DPS is lower if the archer and you are on par in terms of level, gear, and build (full dex archer vs pure mag wizard for example), and the monster has enough HP for it to matter. FB19 bosses go down too fast for it to make a diff lol. Also, if you aren't the one tanking (the majority of the time you aren't) you have to keep your DPS on the lower side anyway or you risk killing yourself as well as potentially your squad.

ark · November 2008

/haiku/ - Lost City wrote: »

They really aren't until late in the game which most people have quit by, seeing as you can't unlock the majority of your heaven/hell skills until 99 anyway. Endgame isn't the same as while you're still getting there.

Sure, when maximized my damage is great. I landed a 35k crit on a boss today in an fb with amplify on my blade tempest. However, if I hadn't been the one already tanking that boss, that damage would have been a big problem. 'Course, if I weren't tanking, I wouldn't have touched BT, but you get the idea. In PK, yes, that damage is lethal, but so is an archer's and they're much faster. Archers that I can 1hko can 1hko me as well as most other robe wizards, and their stun shot makes it easy.

I don't see what's so special about wizards vs blademasters outside of TW. Tbh, they have the advantage due to stun, semi ranged skills, and that mdef "buff".. especially in the air where slows don't work, and most PK wars take place. I can 2 shot them, but they can 2-3 shot me as well, and my pdef is great for a robe. I would only call it an advantage if you're PKing them.

They are not the only class that can kill a charmed barbarian.. at least not one below 8x. I've seen other classes do it. If you're talking about a stacked barb, that's more plausible. Or if you mean 1shotting a charmed barb, then I would probably have to agree there.

I find wizards to be a very good and flexible class with many unique properties and benefits most people would ignore or are unwilling to stick it out to obtain.. I'm not trying to put 'em down or anything, I'm just saying that they're replaceable in most situations by another class throughout the majority of the game, and those others are typically more abundant. Just sayin'.

@Above poster, yes you can pull aggro in one shot, but that skill (blade tempest) has a 30 second cooldown and requires 2 spark to cast. It's far from spammable. Your overall DPS is lower if the archer and you are on par in terms of level, gear, and build (full dex archer vs pure mag wizard for example), and the monster has enough HP for it to matter. FB19 bosses go down too fast for it to make a diff lol. Also, if you aren't the one tanking (the majority of the time you aren't) you have to keep your DPS on the lower side anyway or you risk killing yourself as well as potentially your squad.

Well, everything I say about classes pertains to their endgame abilities as that's usually where people spend the most time being. That may help backup my claims. Before 90, Wizards really are the gimped class.

... Having high crit rate makes wizards badass before 90 though =D.

/haiku/ - Lost City · November 2008

ark wrote: »

Well, everything I say about classes pertains to their endgame abilities as that's usually where people spend the most time being. That may help backup my claims. Before 90, Wizards really are the gimped class.

... Having high crit rate makes wizards badass before 90 though =D.

Ya, I'm a crit ho.

It's nice... usually.

People that actually GET to that point do, yeah. xD

Calibix - Heavens Tear · November 2008

/haiku/ - Lost City wrote: »

They really aren't until late in the game which most people have quit by, seeing as you can't unlock the majority of your heaven/hell skills until 99 anyway. Endgame isn't the same as while you're still getting there.

Sure, when maximized my damage is great. I landed a 35k crit on a boss today in an fb with amplify on my blade tempest. However, if I hadn't been the one already tanking that boss, that damage would have been a big problem. 'Course, if I weren't tanking, I wouldn't have touched BT, but you get the idea. In PK, yes, that damage is lethal, but so is an archer's and they're much faster. Archers that I can 1hko can 1hko me as well as most other robe wizards, and their stun shot makes it easy.

I don't see what's so special about wizards vs blademasters outside of TW. Tbh, they have the advantage due to stun, semi ranged skills, and that mdef "buff".. especially in the air where slows don't work, and most PK wars take place. I can 2 shot them, but they can 2-3 shot me as well, and my pdef is great for a robe. I would only call it an advantage if you're PKing them.

They are not the only class that can kill a charmed barbarian.. at least not one below 8x. I've seen other classes do it. If you're talking about a stacked barb, that's more plausible. Or if you mean 1shotting a charmed barb, then I would probably have to agree there.

I find wizards to be a very good and flexible class with many unique properties and benefits most people would ignore or are unwilling to stick it out to obtain.. I'm not trying to put 'em down or anything, I'm just saying that they're replaceable in most situations by another class throughout the majority of the game, and those others are typically more abundant. Just sayin'.

@Above poster, yes you can pull aggro in one shot, but that skill (blade tempest) has a 30 second cooldown and requires 2 spark to cast. It's far from spammable. Your overall DPS is lower if the archer and you are on par in terms of level, gear, and build (full dex archer vs pure mag wizard for example), and the monster has enough HP for it to matter. FB19 bosses go down too fast for it to make a diff lol. Also, if you aren't the one tanking (the majority of the time you aren't) you have to keep your DPS on the lower side anyway or you risk killing yourself as well as potentially your squad.

I disagree with the point you make about archers being more overall dps. Yes they do attack faster, but you also need to consider the fact that in a group, buffs benefit an archer much more than they do a wizard. I routinely do FB runs with a 7x archer, and she cannot out dmg me unless I let her. I will take agro from her if I feel like it at anytime, without using spark skills. Sure they get more hits in but I do 2-3x the damage. If I'm taking agro from a group without a barb, then it means I'm doing the most damage.

/haiku/ - Lost City · November 2008

Like I said, if it has low enough hp a single large number can do more overall damage and put the mob/boss on you. If they've done, say, 10k damage total to the boss and you crit with sandstorm and do 15k, you can get aggro, but they can take it back after you do that, and that is my point.

Before the bless box item, I wasn't able to pull aggro nearly as easily, and I'm pure mag using +mag gear. When I have to tank a magic boss like the TT1-1 ones, I have to spark or use an attack buffer of like the first 5% of the boss' hp to hold aggro from my squad through the damage reduction unless I'm critting a lot or it's just me and the cleric. Given they're all higher leveled than I am, and TT isn't the best example, but you get my point. I can maintain aggro on any fb19, 29, or 39 bosses (not sure about 49, I've never had a reason to tank those) easily though.

Haiz - Lost City · November 2008

Archers are not better DPS. You just don't use the right skills for DPSing if they out DPS you.

lilly90 · November 2008

i strongly agree there =x please don't say that mages are not the best at anything -_- seriously ,,mages get redicilous damage later,,besides, i have no problems pulling aggro from archers at my level" except those crazy ones with +6 or so weapons ,,about the archers pvp, put it this way,,whoever has the first hit ,,wins

and why are you even trying to wait till the warrior get to you?O.Oif you are a pure int you should be stealthy

which i cant be sometimes

because peoples are like ,,when they see me " OMG PURE INT MAGE KILL !! "

meanies lol ,but if you are stealthy :P you'd do great

/haiku/ - Lost City · November 2008

Now that these bless boxes have expired, I'm pulling aggro again -- I wasn't before when everyone had them, not sure why. Since you can still go get one even though the event is over, after we got new ones, my 70 archer guildie could take aggro from me again, lol. I could take it back using spark or sutra though, which admittedly I have ignored when fighting bosses because there's rarely a barb to keep aggro in my groups. Exception is the TT bosses. I've had the bless box since like 49, and now I'm 6x, so yeah it's been a while. I'm not sure why I wasn't pulling aggro with it; doesn't make sense to me.

Actually, that was my point Wrathy. xD I don't see what's so special about a wizard vs a blademaster because in PK you'd kill them like you would any other class, and in PvP (like a duel) or if they're ganking they have advantages like stun. I would say the easiest class for a wizard to PK is an archer personally.. 1hko.. but that's just me. The only class I notice a real difference in PKing is a barb because they're the only ones that have time to get to me before I can kill them if they have a charm. I was talking about PvP in that post, not PK, because I didn't see any difference between PKing a BM and an archer.. two shots or one shot.. that's about it.

I may have worded what I said wrong, but the point still stands. Anything a wizard can do, another class can do if there isn't a wizard around, and a large portion of people are going to presume those other classes are better at it because it's their specialty while we're more of a jack-of-all-trades, and you just don't see as many of us as you do most of the others atm. Underrating comes with being a late blooming class imo; I personally like the "damn o_o" reaction from 1hkoing a mob my level on a crit.

lilly90 · November 2008

everyone has his\her own opinion tbh, i met people that think wizs are completly useless,,and other believing that wizs are everything , and what's good about a wiz vs BM is, archer can't do magic damage (most of his\her skills are physical) , what's so special about a wizard vs a BM , that you can get up to 3k damage over the BM without his\her shield

, ask an archer to do that lol,,and ya archer pvp is easy :P if you are sneaky ^_^ , barbs >_> i hate their hp ,, i hate it >.< i just do ! , it's redicilous lol , what i do now is just kite and waste their charm till they give up lol
and again i'm saying :P wizs have the strongest magic skills ingame , so not anything that wiz can do , others can as well, and i do love 1 hit ko on mobs ^_^ it's great

and the numbers are just crazy lol ,,and about mages not being popular, i guess it's because it's some sort of a challenge and it needs TONS of patience, because basically you'll be dead as soon as they reach you untill you are a high level ,or if u have tons of money ofcourse
anyhows , gratz on not being the mistress of being 1hko anymore

/haiku/ - Lost City · November 2008

Well, archers do have that lightning thing.. but they don't exactly use that on robes lol. When I mentioned archers, I meant wiz vs archer, not archer vs BM. I think clerics are better at taking out BMs than wizards, because if they use their mdef buff thing, a cleric still has a quick physical skill to keep the BM's HP going down fast (plume shot), and plume shell makes it a lot harder for the BM to kill the cleric. Just my 2 cents there. Barbs with charms </3.

The highest numbers maybe, but also the longest channeling for the highest of the highest.

Most people who like mage-type classes seem to be going cleric/veno in PWI because they get more benefits early-on and are more hyped. I like the challenge of wizards. :c

lol you noticed

oie · November 2008

i love being a wizard~ go pure int if u never gon pk
without jones charm im screwd in my own lvl physical mobs...
anyway

i truly appreciated being a wizard because of the amount of dmg i could do for a long time...
clerics take up a lot of mp...
and i love the dragon's breath aoe skill...
srsly i could leave it on and go eat something, come back
while others are worrying about omg which key should i press!!

barbs: lure... gotta lure...
bms: lure... gotta lure..
clerics: i have to keep ya'll alivveee

i srsly havent bought any mp charms in my whole pw career. i am 60+ now
maybe i will buy some soon, when im gon zhen but its a pretty decent class to play on..

and no i won't compare myself to archers too much because our damage is just about similar;
archers need a lot of mp to do a good skill... unless u got an mp charm, then nvm.
+ their critical hits has a percentage; not fully consistant

archers are like we do really good dmg now and then class
wizards are like the same old same old dmg class

i also can't say who can stay longer in parties; because like arrows, the mp goes down pretty fast as well. unless ur rich and got mp charms... hahaha but with 3 mp + hp charms or a cleric friend we will pwn' kthx

also, i didnt need much defence anyway; because the mobs die before they get here!
if i got hit though; glacial embrace hahaha
not much armor fixage like barbs have to...the downside about mages are the amount of aggro we get when we walk around...

RockyFox - Sanctuary · November 2008

I seem to like Wizards, Well sort of... either way,
it's just odd that nobody really cares for Wizards on this Game.

Krel - Heavens Tear · November 2008

I think the problem in this game are the people who want the pets haha..seriously the world of PW is spammed out with 10000000 venos

Pinkpeach - Lost City · November 2008

Wizards are awesome for tanking magic bosses.

Very useful class.

Xenesis - Lost City · November 2008

Wizard are junk before 60 b:surrender but they get stronger lvl after lvl , at lvl 80 i can 1-2 hit most of lvl 70+ archer's , also 1-2 hit wr +70 with double spark.. dunno if any other class can 1 hit wr. b:pleased Usualy wiz have egnough time to kite if got hitted , 3k hp and earth shield egnogh to survive if you know how to play, max shrink and practice pk , after that its a plesure to pk.
Yes, but its true that mage are late gamers, if gonna play mage just have patience to lvl it up many people quit before it gets stronger thats why we aren't many.
HH80 ftw b:victory

Jrudora - Lost City · November 2008

Imo, if you want to play a mage effectively and you DO have friends who are higher level than you, then stay guildless. This of course applies only to Lost City.

Why? Because guild drama is ridiculous at Lost City.
I joined a guild for fun and within a week there were 5 other guilds who declared Kill on Sight on the guild.
Absolutely ridiculous how pk happy guild dramatic people are on Lost City.
Its almost impossible to level anywhere when you've got that many guilds killing you wherever you go.
You may not even have anything to do with why your guilds been targetted.

I don't think I'll join a guild until I hit 70.

Xenesis - Lost City · November 2008

In pvp server there will always be pk.. if dont want to pk just join pve server there no one can pk you..b:bye

Jrudora - Lost City · November 2008

Naw, I don't care if someone randomly pks me... its part of the pvp server.
But joining a guild increases that by a lot.

Right now, I'm happy being guildless... pking and being pked once in a while without bringing a whole shatload of people down with me because they're all in the same guild.

Pvp and pking is fun. The drama, not so much.

graider · November 2008

Ok folks, the real problem is that nobody trying a wizard really researches the class, they just think 'spellcaster = nuke', and build it as such.

The best wizard I know of is the light armor (1 dex, 1 str, 3 mag) wizard. It has the ability to go over to arcane armor if needed for pvp vs spellcasters, and the majority of spells out-range archers. the light armor build also allows for a bit higher survivability vs melee characters with the aide of the earth buff (+10% Phys Def).

Sure, you are a bit weaker than 'pure' mages, but you aren't going to die more than once a day unless you really get screwed over.

I don't want to detract from the main topic of this thread, but it's become a pissing contest between a couple of you. One saying mostly negative things, the other trying to counter these statements. Somewhere in there, we got off-topic.

Mrbungle - Lost City · November 2008

graider wrote: »

Sure, you are a bit weaker than 'pure' mages, but you aren't going to die more than once a day unless you really get screwed over.

you die once a day?!?!?
im pure int and i practically never die.
the only reasons to die are laggs, uncarefullness and alcohol

graider · November 2008

My statement is a suggestion and an opinion. Please don't make a big deal out of it since not everyone is a master of a class when they start it.

OriciAlyssa - Heavens Tear · November 2008

It's really situational.

PvP dynamic is extremely different from PvE and even then it really depends on what you're up against and your team.

Solo I would say Graider's probably right. 1 vs 1 light armor build helps alot with earth shield stacked vs non-wiz classes.

PvE pure int usually advantages outweighs most light armor disadvantages and in some PvP scenarios like TW it really more or less depends on your team. PvP if your BMs keep everything far enough away from you then pure INT is fine because nothing gets to you anyway. If you don't have that then the light armor build will help.

There is no perfect build that will be best for every single situation, but like in most things you have a lot of factors to consider for each case. Recently I started Zhening and with pure int build I was pulling hate easy off an arch 3 lvls above me. I only carry 1 set of arcane armor for max magic dmg, but after that and a few deaths I'm gonna carry an xtra set of HP++DEF++ lol.

/haiku/ - Lost City · December 2008

Honestly, I don't agree with you that LA is the best way to play a wizard beyond level 60. Below it, it helps a ton, and I can agree with you whole-heartedly on that. The ratio of defense traded for matk is pretty equal later on, with the exception of blade tempest which isn't as reliant on your magic attack. Long story short: Neither is the best, it depends on the player.

PvE: Most mobs aside from the ones people zhen are magic at 60+, meaning they hit a LA harder than a robe user, and if the LA kills one or two hits to kill it (which most take an extra shot).. even though you can switch to robes for leveling, it'll be slower killing/exp. The blessing helped LAs a lot in this aspect, but they're gone now. :P

PvP: There's not much difference between LA and pure magic's survivability after 60. They both have to gtfo if things get bad (distance shrink ftw) and keep moving when being targetted, and both have adequate time to get out unless they're not a 1shot.. as long as they have a charm. A LA will have more trouble with a charmed barbarian or another wizard than a pure magic would, though.

Other notes: Past 60 (after you're done with foxwings), just don't solo if you're trying to get things done. Especially if you're in a guild. It's better exp to party (particularly if you use mijis), and you have backup if trouble starts. Wizards in a 1v1 situation don't shine as much as they do in group PvP, and lone PKers won't target you as much. I personally level and do my quests with a BM, and we make a very deadly combo when PvP starts.

Kiku - Lost City · December 2008

Mg's are amazing once you hit around 89+, till then don't expect too much on the pvp front. We become the best pvp class under a wf with phoneix. There not as common as other classes, but they defitnley aren't rare, I see plenty at my level bracket.

Pandora - Lost City · December 2008

Mages are the underdog class and we always will be. We're archers without evasion (or hp) and less single target DPS but better AoE. Oh, and cheaper to zhen with.

Rare Class?

Comments

Categories