Ancient China and **** Marriage
Wotsmaleus - Heavens Tear
Posts: 86 Arc User
This work is for mature people. It is not intended to offend or slander, but rather present information as to why PW, a game based on Chinese lore, does not allow for same sex marriage. You can look here in order to get a more through understanding Chinese culture and sexuality. Before you suggest the ability of **** marriage, please consider the following.
Three schools of thought were prevalent in China in ancient history. That was Taoism, Buddhism, and Confucianism. All three schools of though believed in the duality commonly called the Yin and the Yang. The Yin was the female aspect and the Yang was male, and people usually possessed both, but generally more of the one assigned to the appropriate gender. It was also believed that women possessed an unlimited supply of Yin where as the man possessed a limited quantity of Yang. AS such, it was though that wasting Yang energy with someone of the same gender was a waste. It was also believed that it was the duty of a man to produce offspring but he was not limited in his encounters in what the ancient Chinese called "The Clouds and the Rain." So long as a man had a wife, he was free to do as he pleased with either gender. As for women, they were largely unregulated in behavior until the rise of Confucianism. This was because it was commonly thought that a woman could never waste her Yin as it was unlimited.
However, in later history, male homosexual behavior was confined to the upper class. This is because it was believed that male on male activities was considered an indulgence rather than a duty. But up until about 1740, the behavior was not punishable, and even then it was just kept secret. However, even though it was frowned upon starting in 1740, it was not considered sinful by any Chinese religions at the time.
Now, since this game is based on Chinese culture and mythology, you have to take into account that certain things are not though about. I'm neither for or against same gendered characters getting married, I am just presenting information showing that it was not something that was permitted and because of that, those morals were translated into the game.
If you want to do further reading I suggest the Wikipedia article on the subject as well.
Three schools of thought were prevalent in China in ancient history. That was Taoism, Buddhism, and Confucianism. All three schools of though believed in the duality commonly called the Yin and the Yang. The Yin was the female aspect and the Yang was male, and people usually possessed both, but generally more of the one assigned to the appropriate gender. It was also believed that women possessed an unlimited supply of Yin where as the man possessed a limited quantity of Yang. AS such, it was though that wasting Yang energy with someone of the same gender was a waste. It was also believed that it was the duty of a man to produce offspring but he was not limited in his encounters in what the ancient Chinese called "The Clouds and the Rain." So long as a man had a wife, he was free to do as he pleased with either gender. As for women, they were largely unregulated in behavior until the rise of Confucianism. This was because it was commonly thought that a woman could never waste her Yin as it was unlimited.
However, in later history, male homosexual behavior was confined to the upper class. This is because it was believed that male on male activities was considered an indulgence rather than a duty. But up until about 1740, the behavior was not punishable, and even then it was just kept secret. However, even though it was frowned upon starting in 1740, it was not considered sinful by any Chinese religions at the time.
Now, since this game is based on Chinese culture and mythology, you have to take into account that certain things are not though about. I'm neither for or against same gendered characters getting married, I am just presenting information showing that it was not something that was permitted and because of that, those morals were translated into the game.
If you want to do further reading I suggest the Wikipedia article on the subject as well.
"Everything is worth what the purchaser will pay for it." -Publius Syrius
"If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman
"The Bible is a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish, no interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this." -Albert Einstein
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman
"The Bible is a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish, no interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this." -Albert Einstein
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by Wotsmaleus - Heavens Tear on
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Comments
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This is a game. A story with Chinese references and etc. Doesn't say it's base on real life.
If you really want to marry someone who's also a male in real life, but plays a character in
game; Why not just have that other person play a different gender so that you can marry them?
You're not limited to choose only male character or vice versa for females with same stand point on this topic.
If you're going to pull all the mumble jumble from real life history, then note that we can't do high
double jumping. We can't fly on sword, sting ray, and have wings. I'm not against if the
creator decided to allow what you've stated. However, your arguement is flawed between
real life and a game. Can't mix those two. Otherwise If I one hit you with my sword (or a few hits), you should be dead and not run away . As well as if you died, it's game over for you
because you're dead like real life, can't pick up where you left off...Also, you have to go through
the growing stages of puberty and human development...shall I continue on? I hope you get
the idea.0 -
Show me a Chinese legend where male same sex encounters were exclusive, and you made your point. Otherwise, you need to realize that it's the culture that created this game. What you are saying is about on par with saying there should be guns and rockets in this game as well.
Just because something exists doesn't mean that it was culturally acceptable, or even suited for the time period a game supposedly represents.
They made the game based on their culture and myths. That's just how things are.
Nothing stops a male player from creating a female character to marry another male player."Everything is worth what the purchaser will pay for it." -Publius Syrius
"If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman
"The Bible is a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish, no interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this." -Albert Einstein
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Wotsmaleus,
Your reply...o.O it's contradicting your request in the first place or at least that's what I got out of it by reading it. Please re-read what I typed. And I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me or against my statement.
Let me sum it up...hopefully it'll be simple.
Perfect World = Virtual Game
****/**** marriages = REAL LIFE
Virtual Game =/= REAL LIFE
If you don't agreed, don't play. Just because ****/**** existed in our history and in reality,
doesn't mean we should or a must to make it visible in a game as well. Yes PW is build with
Chinese references, I acknowledge that. However, you fail to realize my overall message.
Also, this is a 'story' okay? Like, long long ago or Once Upon a Time...
[That was neither a good metaphor, nor one the forum goers need to read.]
Virtual Game =/= REAL LIFE0 -
Dude, stop being a ****. I agree with Wot. I don't see why that people shouldn't have a right to merry so why cant same sexes do that? I hate the Christians who beleve in this. Yes I am a Athiest but I agree with most of the Christianity ideas. I don't see why the people who made this game like Dvorak illegalise this. I think both sexes have a right to merry there own sexes and to embrace once another and my mum always says:
"Love is power"I am a wraith army commander. I command the Wraiths. I order them to kill. I order them to attack. I order them to tell them to shut up. I order them to do anything I tell them to do. I killed many people. You might be next.0 -
I don't like **** marriages at all. but if it was implemented in PW~ there will be more purchases of Wedding package in Cash shop~ It's a win win for players and PW owners.0
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I'm not against it. If PW:INT creator wishes to put it in game then that's fine and great for everyone. However, that's not the point I'm trying to get across. I'm not a Christian, FYI...I'm an Agnostic. I'm just saying, just because it's a game it doesn't 'need' to implement real life situation. It's a story, stories are made up. I have not once deny the topic of ****/**** marriage. Once we start putting 'real life' stuffs in a simple game, then we have this great debate on about...well ****/**** Marriages is allow, why Can't I just One hit kill that ugly **** running around kill stealing my mobs? I slashed him with the sword multiple times and he still alive running laughing his **** off (as an example of course).0
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Tomiko - Heavens Tear wrote: »I don't like **** marriages at all. but if it was implemented in PW~ there will be more purchases of Wedding package in Cash shop~ It's a win win for players and PW owners.
Then you are very raciest. I think EVERYONE has a right to merry there sexes.I am a wraith army commander. I command the Wraiths. I order them to kill. I order them to attack. I order them to tell them to shut up. I order them to do anything I tell them to do. I killed many people. You might be next.0 -
I dont care about the **** marrige thing but very insightfull.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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That was my intent, to inform. I don think a lot of people relaize that this game is based off ancient Chinese culture and myth. It's not skin off my nose as to who love who, but I wanted to make a point that because of the origins of the game and the mythology behind it, same-sex stuff just wasn't even contemplated.
It is my thought that it's best to respect culture. You don't have to agree with it, but you should porbably know a little to understand where people are coming form."Everything is worth what the purchaser will pay for it." -Publius Syrius
"If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman
"The Bible is a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish, no interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this." -Albert Einstein
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Wotsmaleus,
Your reply...o.O it's contradicting your request in the first place or at least that's what I got out of it by reading it. Please re-read what I typed. And I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me or against my statement.
Let me sum it up...hopefully it'll be simple.
Perfect World = Virtual Game
****/**** marriages = REAL LIFE
Virtual Game =/= REAL LIFE
If you don't agreed, don't play. Just because ****/**** existed in our history and in reality,
doesn't mean we should or a must to make it visible in a game as well. Yes PW is build with
Chinese references, I acknowledge that. However, you fail to realize my overall message.
Also, this is a 'story' okay? Like, long long ago or Once Upon a Time...
[Still not a good metaphor or polite conversation.]
Virtual Game =/= REAL LIFE
Lets make this clear, personal lives are not virtual ones. So I don't think you understand what I'm trying to get at. You need to understand that Ancient Chinese culture made room for homosexual behavior, just not in a public light. And as this game is based off Chinese Legends and Culture, changeing some basic themes would change the game.
Do you know of a game that takes place during the time of Cinderella? Also, I would like to point out that there were several Georges that reigned over the British Empire. The original story also traced back to the 6th century BC. Either George you speak of has no relevancy.
I want you to also be aware that I'm playing the devil's advocated. I haven't any problem with or without same sex stuff period. And I have my reasons.
I'm just tired of people complaining about it, but obviously not taking time to understand the origins of Perfect World. Respect is a two-way street. I'm trying to make the point that based on Chinese culture, tradition, and legend, it's just a non-issue. English speaking players don't seem to realize that."Everything is worth what the purchaser will pay for it." -Publius Syrius
"If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman
"The Bible is a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish, no interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this." -Albert Einstein
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Christians believe **** marriage to be wrong because the Bible says so.Zehethos - Heavens Tear wrote: »Dude, stop being a ****. I agree with Wot. I don't see why that people shouldn't have a right to merry so why cant same sexes do that? I hate the Christians who beleve in this. Yes I am a Athiest but I agree with most of the Christianity ideas. I don't see why the people who made this game like Dvorak illegalise this. I think both sexes have a right to merry there own sexes and to embrace once another and my mum always says:
"Love is power"
Atheists think **** marriage is okay because it adds a large group of angry people to their "side".
In actuality Atheism doesn't support homosexuality, It has something to do with creatures only existing to reproduce and being **** goes completely against a creatures nature.0 -
I really don't want to end up locking a suggestions thread. Can we please keep to the topic of suggestions involving the Perfect World Interntional game, and away from matters of politics, religion, and various misunderstandings of other people's viewpoints?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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Well he is obviously talking about making **** and **** merrages and holdings ingame. I will be keeping a close eye on this thread and I will report if the situation gets worse.I am a wraith army commander. I command the Wraiths. I order them to kill. I order them to attack. I order them to tell them to shut up. I order them to do anything I tell them to do. I killed many people. You might be next.0
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Rule 1 : "You may not use the Perfect World International (PWI) Forums to transmit unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, hateful, racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable content." Requesting people die in real life is right out.
they are a perversion against god..0 -
They make **** ***** marriages in game and I will be filing a formal protest and imforming the software rating office to force a R18 rating on perfect world.
(Delete this one too ya fascists, I guess your from Communist China and don't care for free speech)0 -
Zehethos - Heavens Tear wrote: »Well he is obviously talking about making **** and **** merrages and holdings ingame. I will be keeping a close eye on this thread and I will report if the situation gets worse.
My point was to reveal that the culture that is behind this game didn't really consider the situation. Because of this, I don't think PW considered it as being an option to put in the game. Additionally, I don't think many people understand the basis behind the philosophies in regards to the culture that made the game and the cultures it's based upon. I have also taken great pains to remove any personal bias I have towards the subject. This is about the game, not my life nor the life of other players.
My intent was to present a view to people who keep suggesting it and claim it's discriminatory. My intent was to present information and make people realize that culture influences entertainment. I could care less who a person loves and who a person wants to marry, but I am a little tired of people screaming foul over a different and less understood culture and the entertainment that has come from it."Everything is worth what the purchaser will pay for it." -Publius Syrius
"If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman
"The Bible is a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish, no interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this." -Albert Einstein
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Ladycrysania - Sanctuary wrote: »They make **** ***** marriages in game and I will be filing a formal protest and imforming the software rating office to force a R18 rating on perfect world.
(Delete this one too ya fascists, I guess your from Communist China and don't care for free speech)
Wonderful, less children need to play this game anyway. b:pleased"Everything is worth what the purchaser will pay for it." -Publius Syrius
"If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman
"The Bible is a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish, no interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this." -Albert Einstein
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Ladycrysania - Sanctuary wrote: »Rule 1 : "You may not use the Perfect World International (PWI) Forums to transmit unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, hateful, racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable content." Requesting people die in real life is right out.
they are a perversion against god..
Greated the 'must die' was extreme.
Although I consider talking about 'homosexual' topics in a public place to be 'vulgar and obscene'. (as well as disgusting) This doesn't count? I'm not about to have to explain to a child who may be viewing these forums what it means.
Please clean it up..0 -
sorta interesting discussion taking place here. however, i'm not seeing the 'suggestion' aspect that this thread should contain.
moving to off-topic.Remember, posting on these forums is not a right - It's a PRIVILEGE!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thus the ShazzBot has spoken...0 -
Ladycrysania - Sanctuary wrote: »Greated the 'must die' was extreme.
Although I consider talking about 'homosexual' topics in a public place to be 'vulgar and obscene'. (as well as disgusting) This doesn't count? I'm not about to have to explain to a child who may be viewing these forums what it means.
Please clean it up..
You're an ignorant ****. If you don't want to explain what this means to a child, then don't have any child you know read this.
Someone of your mind is not suited to these modern times.0 -
Yukiko - Lost City wrote: »Someone of your mind is not suited to these modern times.
Your right...I live by words like morality & honour, very unheard of nowadays. There is a reason for males and females.
Certain orifices in the human body are made for one specific thing. Certain human organs are made for a specific thing and a specific action.
"These Modern Times" ..yes, **** , murdering, bombing, genocide, AIDS, g_ay marriages against the word of God. (God? Whats that?)
There was a reason Sodom and Gamora was destroyed.
"Modern Times", you can have them ... I'm glad I won't have to deal with them much longer (Old)
I pity the poor young people and those being born that have to live in the 'Modern' future.0 -
Moving it is fine by me. The reason I thought it would be best in the suggestions area is that people keep suggesting it over and over again, without taking into account Chinese tradition, philosophies, and systems of though. The game is heavily based upon China as a source, and I think It;s perfectly fine for the game to take a status-quo approach on the issue of same gender marriage.
Some may argues this is a game. Others may argue they are against it for spiritual or cultural reasons. And they can have their opinions. I do not support either side of the debate of the argument. I also believe that people are not grounded enough in Chinese philosophies to understand the complexities.
So with a little research I wrote this and offered it as pre-requisite reading to anyone who had an opinion for or against the issue. I am sad to see that intolerance stretches both ways. In one direction, some people who quite literally base a murderous intent upon Biblical passages, and yet other people who preach tolerance are not taking the time to study Chinese culture to understand why certain things are the way they are.
I am deeply saddened by both methods of thought. It illustrates our inability to take facts and digest them properly, to educate players about the culture upon which this remarkable game is based upon."Everything is worth what the purchaser will pay for it." -Publius Syrius
"If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman
"The Bible is a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish, no interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this." -Albert Einstein
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I need to remind you that if one wishes to live by a book of spiritual writings, they should live the the whole of it, rather than picking and choosing. While belief upon the personal decisions is one's own, yet based upon religious scripture, I must point out that the very same book also forbids adherents to wearing clothing made with mixed threads, eating food such as hamburger (high fat and blood content), lobsters and crustations (if it's from the water, it must have fins), that pork (and diabetic medicine such as insulin), and that usury (the act of making money off money loaned out) are all supposedly forbidden by the same book that calls for the execution of (interestingly enough) only male homosexuals.
I highly suggest that if you and other people who wish to adhere to spiritual writings realize that it's an "all or nothing" kind of thing. If those same writings are believed to be from your god, then one must accept the whole of them as law, or else say that none apply as those laws were set before a people struggling to create a society from people who were formerly in bondage.
Not a single adherent to these scriptures has the ability to call for the death of anyone based upon any religious law, as they too are most likely to have committed acts that demand for their execution or exilement from society.
Remember this, "He who is sinless, cast the first stone?" Why are so many people willing to kill others because of such things, and yet they themselves are guilty of things just as bad or even worse.
As this is a game owned by a private entity, the owner(s) have/has the right to do as they please with the game. My purpose was to present in a non-threatening and informative way that the ancient Chinese cultures held a status-quo upon same sex marriage, and it should not be expected that the people who created this game make it PC or religiously appeasing to any school of though.
You have the right to your beliefs, but please be civil."Everything is worth what the purchaser will pay for it." -Publius Syrius
"If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman
"The Bible is a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish, no interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this." -Albert Einstein
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Thanks for suggestion!
I was actually intriged cause did not know WHY cannot males embrace males.Now I do.
About permitting same sex marriage in-game, someone said that will inform that to who knows who, please, just watch TV, search the internet, and this game also!!! EVERY solution in game is accomplished by KILLING someone, a VERY good teaching to kids, right?
We people are easier to hate than to love. Everyone is ready to discriminate. Everyone is ready to choose "which" parte of same book take to validate their statements; that way i easy, isnt it?0 -
Having something to explain this to kids if they see it in this game... I guess TV, movies or those two girls or guys holding hands in the local market dont count. Unless you plan on keeping your kids in a bubble their whole lives, they're going to have to have it explained to them sooner or later.
As for making changes to the current game... it dosen't bother me either way. And those that do get offended by whatever decision they make can go take their subscription money elsewhere.
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What does offend me is my avatar looks nothing like me.
I have purple hair. 0 -
man... if ur **** make a female character ..vice versa. Problem solved?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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Why bother? As others have said, if you're ****, simply 'role play' as the opposite sex in-game and marry that way. No one's stopping you. I mean, it is a role-playing game, and it's set in a fantasy world, why does it matter? Maybe in this fantasy world, **** marriage is frowned on, along with incest, pedophilia, etc. Heck, it seems to me that sex in general is not allowed... wonder why that is? Wouldn't they want the game to be more realistic; more culturally relevant?
There is a huge gap between culturally-themed and historically-based. Lord of the Rings, for instance, is culturally-themed on middle-aged Europe just like PW is culturally-themed on ancient China. However neither are anywhere near historical accuracy in the least. They are separate fantasy worlds with their own rules, creatures, magic, geographical locations, and even (in the case of PW) gravity! Surely it isn't a stretch to think that **** marriage might not be accepted there, even if it is here.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not at all against **** marriage, I just don't see the point of allowing it, especially if the creators simply don't want it in their fantasy world. Besides, as you can see, it riles the fundies, and would bring much more PR drama than it really needs to. Haven't you been watching the news? Apparently bible-thumpers think homosexuals are the devil's minions.0 -
I see so much arguing and so very little reason. The fact of the matter is, it is a game which you choose to play. You did not create it, the PW staff did. We need to understand that we are guests in this game and as such, voicing our opinions is great, but demanding is not exactly up our alley.
If the creators of this game had indeed put homosexuality into this game... Regardless of morality, they would be narrowing the venues in which it is accepted. It is not so much a question of right and wrong here, but good marketing
If they were to allow homosexual marriage, millions of parents would disallow their children to play (not stating its moral acceptabilty, just the simple fact that it would happen)
In remaining within the boundaries of traditionally acceptable story lines, and little gray area, they market PWI to a very broad audience (which is nessecary for the game's success).
So, why are we posting our moral dillemas? It doesn't matter. The point of this game is not to create some sort of homosexual breeding brainwasher, nor is it to coerce our conformity to the standards of the past. We are free to make our own decisions in life, whether you be **** or straight (to use lamen terms). The fact still remains, this game's first purpose, is to succeed; and putting in material that would, by some (again, not pointing fingers or commenting on its acceptability) be considered immoral or unethical... would be an all-around bad move for an internationally accepted gaming phenomenon.
Hope that cleared this up a bit
~Lyte0 -
Lyte - Lost City wrote: »If they were to allow homosexual marriage, millions of parents would disallow their children to play (not stating its moral acceptabilty, just the simple fact that it would happen)
I love this thought. Would that mean that there'd be less PC vendors in West Archosaur? And less people to scream "Stop KSing!" when you're trying to do your Broken Bow Bluff quests? Because if it is, I'm all for it! b:chuckle
But seriously, I could care less which way. I just think that people don't seem to realize that the rest of the world has different views on things, and thee views sometimes influence entertainment, be it intentionally or unintentionally.
But really, I think I've said enough. If anyone else wants to argue, they are welcome to. I just wish people would stop being so American-centric when it comes to cultural practice."Everything is worth what the purchaser will pay for it." -Publius Syrius
"If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman
"The Bible is a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish, no interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this." -Albert Einstein
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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