Concerns About Cash Shop Pricing

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  • Triss - Lost City
    Triss - Lost City Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    The game will eventually open; it is just a matter of time; that I can wait. I have played this game for so long already; it does not matter if I have to wait for another month. What matters to me is how the company treats their customers.

    If the GM Kru does not hold true to his words, then it would be certainly doom for his company. It would be a stupid way to market your game that way - by blatanly lying to your potential customers; so at the moment, I am quite happy with PW-MS company and their promises.

    As to this company, the silent treatment is getting old.
  • Blancheneige - Heavens Tear
    Blancheneige - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,494 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    Kickme - Lost City wrote: »
    Those guys can't even give a clear date on their CB date, let alone the ACTUAL price of their CS. What that Kru guy actually says compared to what his company actually does is a very different thing. Actions speak louder than words.

    it's not a company that came out of the blue to run PW servers. They already have some experience in the buisiness since they are also running Cabal Online servers....

    So they must know what they are talking about....
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Thanks Brit for the sig b:laugh
  • Kickme - Lost City
    Kickme - Lost City Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    Blancheneige - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    it's not a company that came out of the blue to run PW servers. They already have some experience in the buisiness since they are also running Cabal Online servers....

    So they must know what they are talking about....

    That's precisely why I'm so skeptical of PW-MS.. because I have played their version of Cabal Online.

    Promises mean nothing. Actions mean everything.
  • dolucal
    dolucal Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    Kickme - Lost City wrote: »
    That's precisely why I'm so skeptical of PW-MS.. because I have played their version of Cabal Online.

    Promises mean nothing. Actions mean everything.

    Promises mean a lot: they give people hope and reason to interest themselves for PW-MS. The optimal scenario for PW-MS is if they can keep their promises:). If they do, then I am really going to spend money there ^^. So far I have not spent a single euro nor even bothered to level on these servers due to the ridiculous item mall prices.

    As other people have pointed out before: this is not about being "affordable", it is about giving a price that is not ridiculous compared to prices for similar services. It feels like this company is really trying to rip us off.
  • soukyuu
    soukyuu Posts: 809 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    Kickme - Lost City wrote: »
    Those guys can't even give a clear date on their CB date, let alone the ACTUAL price of their CS.
    I prefer they don't give me the exact date/actual shop prices over being given a promise they cannot keep ;)
    PW has been endless frustration for me #2
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • l0ki
    l0ki Posts: 93 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    soukyuu wrote: »
    I prefer they don't give me the exact date/actual shop prices over being given a promise they cannot keep ;)

    I bet they don't wanna tell the date because they wanna make sure all things are fixed. and for the cash shop.. they said it's going to be pretty much similar to the cheap server. and If that server is not laggy.........

    1. Lehman Brothers
    2. Merrill Lynch
    3. Perfect world INT?
  • bonghit
    bonghit Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    Kickme - Lost City wrote: »
    That's precisely why I'm so skeptical of PW-MS.. because I have played their version of Cabal Online.

    Promises mean nothing. Actions mean everything.

    100% agree. I've played game master's version of cabal and based on their shoddy service and overall operation of that game: #1 - wouldn't touch their version of PW with a 10 foot pole and #2 - am very, very skeptical of ANY promises they make.

    Seeing is believing and the proof will ultimately be in the pudding and so far what i've seen of their UGLY website supports all my doubts of their ability to properly handle this game.

    someone wake me up please when they finally launch OB and announce pricing :D
  • soukyuu
    soukyuu Posts: 809 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    bonghit wrote: »
    Seeing is believing and the proof will ultimately be in the pudding and so far what i've seen of their UGLY website supports all my doubts of their ability to properly handle this game.
    Judging the book by it's cover, eh? You should be satisfied with PWI then, they have a nice, flashy website.
    someone wake me up please when they finally launch OB and announce pricing :D
    Don't worry, at least 1 user will post here when it's there.
    PW has been endless frustration for me #2
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • bonghit
    bonghit Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    soukyuu wrote: »
    Judging the book by it's cover, eh? You should be satisfied with PWI then, they have a nice, flashy website.

    Don't worry, at least 1 user will post here when it's there.

    lol go ahead and wait (weeks?) for a product that may or may not be priced 'slightly more' then MY prices. In the meantime i'll keep playing this current version thats in the here and now and has heiros priced similar to MY for at least the next 2 weeks. sure its just a temporary sale but im geting full enjoyment RIGHT NOW from a real product while the rest o you whiners wait for something fueled on empty promise.
  • soukyuu
    soukyuu Posts: 809 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    bonghit wrote: »
    lol go ahead and wait (weeks?) for a product that may or may not be priced 'slightly more' then MY prices. In the meantime i'll keep playing this current version thats in the here and now and has heiros priced similar to MY for at least the next 2 weeks. sure its just a temporary sale but im geting full enjoyment RIGHT NOW from a real product while the rest o you whiners wait for something fueled on empty promise.
    Sure, go ahead and waste your money and time on a version that is hopelessly overpriced and with staff not listening to a large part of the community.

    Should the PW-MS version fail my expectations (and so far they didn't.) i'm still pretty unlikely to come back here. Like someone else said already, some accounts here seem to make positive advertising for PWE and are trying to make other versions look bad when it's clearly PWE that makes big mistakes atm. Weird, no?
    PW has been endless frustration for me #2
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Raeli - Heavens Tear
    Raeli - Heavens Tear Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    moyles wrote: »
    Seriously people,dont you get it?
    THE DEVELOPERS DONT CARE WHAT WE SAY OR THINK!!
    There total silence is proof of this

    Their total silence is likely more of an indicator of 'watch and wait to see how many people purchase at the current prices.' It's rather difficult to not care about that which pays your paycheck.
  • kamao
    kamao Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    Well this "sale" just confirmed it.

    This game is totally beyond my ability to pay. Yes I can afford one night in a five star hotel. Yes, I will be grabbing the chance if the said five star hotel offers discount / sale for their rooms for a weeks period.

    But No, I cannot rent their room for a month even because they are expensive. I guess this PWI is really for the wealthy.

    This just makes me reealuate my decision not to buy WOTLK. Heck $60 for the expansion + 6 month subscription $74. That is $134. Let us do the math.

    Mount Chubbs $20
    Faster Flying tool: $10
    100 Teleacoustic: $9
    Inventory Extension Stones: $6 (do not know how many but surely 2)
    Safe Extension: $4 (again 2)
    Reset Notes: $5 (low estimate of 1 time in a 6 month period)
    Teleport Incense 100: $9
    Total: $63
    Amount left for Heiros: $134 - $63 = $71
    $71 is 28.4 silver heiros. Edit: 47.3 with sale.

    Is that enough for 6 months? I do not think so.

    I even have 70 mage, 70 priest and 70 warlock and 55 death knight for that matter with WOTLK. I am just talking about 1 toon here maybe 2 with Venomancer.

    Conclusion: Buy WOTLK and 6 month subscription. Play free here. Problem solved.
  • Tres - Lost City
    Tres - Lost City Posts: 91 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    What if you were to look at this sale as a "testing the waters" kind of thing. Maybe they are trying to see the result on Gold bought if Hierograms were cheaper as it was one of the poll options. Just something to consider
    Previous Character: Tres_Iqus 95 MG
    Current Character: Tres Cleric (See level above)
    Conqueror
  • Bloodmess - Lost City
    Bloodmess - Lost City Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    Have you guys seen the PWi YouTube channel? The product manager is a 20something year old guy with wierd(just my opinion) ear-rings. He look like a cool dude and all but he just doesn't seem to be the kind of person That I want the game to be ran by. :S I don't know, maybe something is wrong with me.
  • Blancheneige - Heavens Tear
    Blancheneige - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,494 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    Bloodmess - Lost City wrote: »
    Have you guys seen the PWi YouTube channel? The product manager is a 20something year old guy with wierd ear-rings. When I saw it I was like........HUH?!

    I don't mind the age or the look of someone, he can have a tatoo on his forehead or a bone through his nose, as long as he/she has the capabilities of doing the job.

    The problem is, I'm wondering if anyone in the PWE staff have some economics knowledge....
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Thanks Brit for the sig b:laugh
  • Bloodmess - Lost City
    Bloodmess - Lost City Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    By the way. How come I hardly ever see any responses from GMs. Usually GMs would make many responses on forums to help with players questions or to deal with controversies.
  • recon5
    recon5 Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    Because if they were to respond here they would be spending even less time ingame and people are already complaining about how invisible they are there. Mods handle the forum.
  • rev
    rev Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    that or we would get one of the following response types:

    "Your comments are being read and talked about."
    "we are looking into it."
    "don't worry....(enter excuse here) ;)"
    "Either you die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." Harvey Dent - The Dark Knight

    Phase 1 Dungeon Design Contest Winner!
    Entry: Hall of Forsaken Souls, Twas fun to design.
  • junk
    junk Posts: 209 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    Tres - Lost City wrote: »
    What if you were to look at this sale as a "testing the waters" kind of thing. Maybe they are trying to see the result on Gold bought if Hierograms were cheaper as it was one of the poll options. Just something to consider

    And if they're not? I'm not going to spend 2 weeks of my life grinding only to find out my character is too expensive to play. Even if they decide to keep prices low (I utterly doubt this), it means I'm 2 weeks behind by guildees and there's no point in coming back anyway. Also, they don't NEED to 'test the waters' to realise current hierogram expenses make the game unplayable. Unless their userbase is lawyers and shrinks.
  • Tres - Lost City
    Tres - Lost City Posts: 91 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    The "testing the waters" i was referring to was whether more people would buy gold if the hierogram was cheaper. I mean if there isnt a noticeable increase in zen bought with sale prices why should they keep the price that low? O.o
    Previous Character: Tres_Iqus 95 MG
    Current Character: Tres Cleric (See level above)
    Conqueror
  • rev
    rev Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    Then they should have said "We're doing a test" or something, and besides, it's not just charms that are overpriced. I can buy 3 REAL shirts for the price of one of those in the cash shop that is made up of 1s and 0s. And for the record, why the hell would I pay 60 USD for a wedding in the land of 1s and 0s when I can marry in REAL life (barebones, paperwork only) for less?
    "Either you die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." Harvey Dent - The Dark Knight

    Phase 1 Dungeon Design Contest Winner!
    Entry: Hall of Forsaken Souls, Twas fun to design.
  • junk
    junk Posts: 209 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    Tres - Lost City wrote: »
    The "testing the waters" i was referring to was whether more people would buy gold if the hierogram was cheaper. I mean if there isnt a noticeable increase in zen bought with sale prices why should they keep the price that low? O.o

    Hurr durr. Of course people will buy tons more, because it's a sale. Hence people will stock up in case prices never go down. Or buy them so they can sell them after the sale for ingame gold, even if they don't plan on using them. This proves just about nothing from a marketing standpoint.
  • recon5
    recon5 Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    I play without cash shop items, and I must say I am a bit confused by all this fuss about overpricing. Are cash shop items really necessary to have fun?
  • moyles
    moyles Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    recon5 wrote: »
    I play without cash shop items, and I must say I am a bit confused by all this fuss about overpricing. Are cash shop items really necessary to have fun?

    Not necessary to have fun no, but at lvl 60+ a heirogram(charm) is essential for grinding (unless your a venomancer) all other classes will struggle to stay alive without one.
    The main technique used to level is zhen (AOE attacks on large groups of mobs)
    for this you need a full party with a lurer healer tanker etc and all ppl in that party will NEED charms to level efficiently without getting 1 hit.
    Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
    Laurence J Peter(1919-1988)
  • Kinohki - Lost City
    Kinohki - Lost City Posts: 66 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    Repost here, since my original topic was locked. Have to admit, when it comes to locking topics, they're pretty damned fast about it. Anyways, yeah, share opinions and such.

    Generally, the Kin does not break his third person forum speak routine. However, for this, I will make an exception.

    First off, this is a bit of advice to PWE, whether they want to heed what I say or not, is entirely up to them. Secondly, yes this is a cash shop, "Whine" thread.

    So, I'll start off with the cash shop prices. Now I'm being patient and waiting for full release since I imagine you guys are just testing the waters with prices and all, however don't keep secrets from us. This is very important unless you want to go the way of the RF. In fact, read the RF Codemasters forums. There has been no word on a patch whatsoever. Back in January they promised the community a patch for third quarter of 08. It still hasn't arrived and if you look, the Community liason officer, the guy that actually relays the information to the community rarely posts and when he does it's always the same drivel. "No info, blah blah."

    Don't do that to us. Keep us in the loop, even if it's just a simple statement, keep it original. Let us know of your plans if you can. Any chances of getting the prices changed? Are you testing the waters? What's the real reason behind this sale? Don't be afraid to tell that stuff to us guys, we'll be a lot angrier if you DO withhold that information from us.

    Currently I make a little money, 8.50 an hour. That's not that much and sadly, that's around average pay for most people i'd even say. Most people in the US make minimum wage to..I'd say 12.00$ an hour or so. Seriously, after bills, which mind you, I have a DSL bill, electric bill, water bill, upkeep on my car (maintenance etc) groceries, and most importantly GAS, do you honestly think I have the money to spend on PWI? Sure, I can spend 10 or 20$ here and there, but 60$ fora marriage kit? 35$ for a mount? That's just a bit excessive guys. The most expensive item in ANY cash shop should be 15-20$, seriously, do that and watch your profits damn near triple probably due to the boom of people buying zen.

    Let me expand on this a bit. Let's say you make roughly a bit more than 1000$ a month. So, let's look at this.
    Gas- 50$ a week atleast. That's 200$ a month.
    Electric - 150$ a month generally, it fluctuates.
    Groceries / Food : This is a biggie. Roughly 50-75$ a week. Again that's 200-300 a month.
    Water: 30ish a month.
    DSL / Phone : 70$ a month. Let's add all this up now.

    200 + 150 + 300 + 30 + 70 = 750$. Insurance = 60$ per month, so we're up to 810. 810$ a month and that leaves me 190$ a month excess, in which I better hope nothin goes wrong with my car or so.

    To Xarfox: I've an idea. You said you guys based you cash shop prices and zen - dollar ratio based on the GDA or something like that, right? How about you try a different approach. Put up two polls. One, ask how much people would spend on the game per month, set up 4 options.
    1. 10$ 2. 20-40$ 3 40-60$ and 4. 60$+

    Next, set up an alternate poll and actually ask what people make per hour in the US. Again, set up various options.

    Minimum wage, 8-10$/hr. 10-12$/hr 12-14$/hr and 14$/hr or more, then use that feed back to determine cash shop prices. Seriously, it'll be much more accurate than using any biased information that you guys found.

    So yeah, not sure if it'd do any good or not, but I thought i'd post it. I know you guys want to make profits, don't get me wrong, but you also have to take in account your player base. Not everyone has money to throw away, and again, I remind you, that 2000 people spending 15$ is more than 500 spending 30$.

    The economics I say a bout wages and such are what I assume based on the surrounding area in which I live, it's mostly factories here that offer around 14$ an hour. Most people to get full time to make that, have to go in as a temporary, in which case they only make 8$ an hour for the first year or so, and thee's no guarantee they get hired. You guys get the idea.
    This concludes my rant.

    - Kinohki
  • X_livia_x - Heavens Tear
    X_livia_x - Heavens Tear Posts: 49 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    Yeah it's great how they jump on to lock topics so quickly but won't answer questions and concerns...hmmm...

    I couldn't have said it better myself, Kin. I am a stay at home mother and my fiance makes $13/hr, which is about the highest you CAN make where i live. I would love to be able to spend money in the cash shop but with bills and a child to take care of, I simply can't afford to. When I first started this i thought, well I can afford to spend about $10-15 a week in the cash shop! I would love to "marry" my fiance in game, but at my allotment it would take me 4-6 weeks just to do that! Come on, PWI, this is ridiculous. We aren't all young ones with an allowance to blow on this stuff...people with responsibilities want to have fun and play these games too!

    Don't get me wrong, I do have fun without the cash shop items, but I still feel a bit down when I have to hoof it everywhere and people are running past me on their fancy mounts and "So and So's wife" over their heads and I know I can't have that...=(
  • Kuchiki - Lost City
    Kuchiki - Lost City Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    I dont mean to be rude, so dont get me wrong but.. Dang, u should all move to europe, minimum wage here is abt 15$/h at the age of 18, average salary with a fulltimejob is about 2000$, and thats just the minimum after 33% taxes.
    Maybe thatsa why I dont see the super big problem everyone seems to have with cash shop. Sure marrige and the dragon orbs and such are severly overpriced, but otherwise I dont think its a huge thing. Wouldnt complain if the prices where lower, tho xD
  • isoton
    isoton Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    Guys realize that the people closing the other threaders are forum moderators which have no say in administrative decisions and cannot post here on their behalf unless told to do so. Realize that the forum admins are doing their jobs. They even stickied this to show its importance. Now what we really need to wait for is for one of the administrators or one of their respresentatives to speak for them and tell them whats the deal. Ignoring the the people is not something that is done at open beta... so I am assuming(hopefully) that the admins are talking about this topic and such other topics that are brought up. Remember cash items isn't the only thing there busy with, they are trying to get this game up and running in time for the release date so you must give them a little slack or else you will overwork the people who work for you. Then again this theory is based on that they are busy and that they are trying to get many things to work as soon as possible, I do not know if this is true but we will see. With that said I do agree that the cash items at least some of them are way over the top in prices, not enough variety, and just double the rate of zen to the dollar and alot of people will be satisfied. Remember admins your here to make the people happy so after open beta we better see action. Also please have an admin or someone to at least update on the situation and what your planning becuase people do like too see that you care and think your actually doing something

    -Platypuss :)
  • Smexxyfox - Heavens Tear
    Smexxyfox - Heavens Tear Posts: 722 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    I like "the kin's" post.. so on that same level lemme make this really concrete for you guys:
    *starts going thru the whole cash shop*

    Wedding: 60 gold total (lol I bet you can marry irl infront of a judge for LESS money -AND you get sex, in game u get sweet damn nothing for it.)
    wedding fireworks: 60 gold (holy ****) you can prolly buy 40 dozen REAL bloody roses for that money.
    Dragon orbs: Thats fine, I don't want to see everyone with +12 weapons
    Battle pets: *squints* oh yea wait that will prolly be implimented next year right?(and cost 10gold per token)
    Clothes: finally yay we get 2 new ones (from the total of about 20 avail..lameness) 5-10gold a piece? lil steepi think. You can goto a second hand real life shop and buy REAL clothes for 10$
    Fireworks - couldnt care less
    Flying equip: Considering this is a "lifetime" investment I can understand slightly high prices, BUT where is the rest of them?!! All we have is a measely 3. I made some screenshots: http://profile.imageshack.us/user/lipe124/
    Sidenote on flying equip: is wind widgets permanent? how much does it increase?please make the description better
    Ridesok this is another "lifetime" thing so higher prices is normal BUT, when u add new items u should make the old ones cheaper. "higher prices" doesnt mean 35$ >< absolute super extra freaking crazy max 25$
    chat dont care. make em 100$ per speaker, it would keep the rest of us sane.
    Items with the current 2week discount i'd say its semi fair priced, where is gold charms tho?

    So there you have it. Now give us answers like marccc said.
  • Deirdrea - Heavens Tear
    Deirdrea - Heavens Tear Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    Maybe I'm just a newbie, but . . .

    Isn't all the stuff you pay real money for optional stuff that you don't even need to have to see the primary game content? Or are there actual game content limitations with this gold and zen stuff?

    What is the actual rate of $ to zen to gold? I can't find it, though it may be because I'm only Level 7. Just asking. I may be misunderstanding everything, but I was under the impression that all the stuff you pay for was just extra frills.

    :confused:
    ~DREAM GODDESS~
    Lindsey Lewis
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